if the entire thing was not in tension, it would have zero clamping force, and the bolt would not stretch.
E-Torx Quandry
- Thread starter shoggoth80
- Start date
When the bolt stretches elastically, what kind of force do you think that creates?
NHtoolguy
Well-known member
I've noticed in several service manuals that "the manufacturer recommends this fastener not be re-used", a comment frequently related to brake caliper bracket bolts. I think it has to do with potential liability. For my vehicles, I'll carefully inspect the old bolts and make an assessment on condition. Often, I don't replace them. To date, I've never seen a TTY bolt (with the reduced-diameter region) in a bracket bolt. What's odd to me is the difficulty finding proper replacement bolts, which are typically only dealer-supplied. I have to believe most shops re-use caliper bracket bolts on a regular basis.
Semi-hole mechanic
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2017
- Messages
- 1,017
Or $5 from Tekton directly.
OP
shoggoth80
Well-known member
I bought it from Amazon, not because I don't like going through Tekton directly... But because I didn't need to hit a dollar threshold for free shipping. I have a different account for work, and hit Tekton's free shipping easy. Lol.
cmandp
Well-known member
I've had no trouble with my cheap Harbor Frieght set. However for my BIL's Fiat 500x (Same brake setup as the Jeep Renegade) I bought a single Carlyle socket 1/2" drive. Definitely needed my long 1/2" breaker bar to loosen those bracket bolts.
I saw no reference to TTY on the bracket bolts and I reused them.
I saw no reference to TTY on the bracket bolts and I reused them.
mgeoffriau
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
- Messages
- 78
Another vote for OTC, I've been very pleased with the fit and finish of their E-Torx sockets.
OP
shoggoth80
Well-known member
Checked All data. Says 122 ft lbs front and 42 ft lbs rear. It doesn't specify to use a new fastener for the bracket bolts. However Reddits mention it, user forums mention it. That just muddies the water even more 
Checked All data. Says 122 ft lbs front and 42 ft lbs rear. It doesn't specify to use a new fastener for the bracket bolts. However Reddits mention it, user forums mention it. That just muddies the water even more
I would totally believe Reddit over an industry standard service app
OP
shoggoth80
Well-known member
While I trust repair literature, I also pay attention to enthusiasts/user bases. Looking through TSB info, it seems to specify using new bracket bolts. Thumbnail is fuzzy. Full pic isn't. 
While I trust repair literature, I also pay attention to enthusiasts/user bases. Looking through TSB info, it seems to specify using new bracket bolts. Thumbnail is fuzzy. Full pic isn't.
Is this a TSB to replace (upgrade) the bolts/bracket once due to a defect in the design, or to replace them every time?
OP
shoggoth80
Well-known member
Looks like an upgrade/noise correction TSB for probably the earliest of the 2017 model year. Build date November 2016 back. Dunno when my friend's car was built (didn't look when I saw it last). Reviewing the normal instructions, there's nothing mentioned otherwise.
While this bit is kinda derailing the discussion of the tools... There's a very good chance I'm over thinking it
While this bit is kinda derailing the discussion of the tools... There's a very good chance I'm over thinking it
Looks like an upgrade/noise correction TSB for probably the earliest of the 2017 model year. Build date November 2016 back. Dunno when my friend's car was built (didn't look when I saw it last). Reviewing the normal instructions, there's nothing mentioned otherwise.
While this bit is kinda derailing the discussion of the tools... There's a very good chance I'm over thinking it
Looks like vehicles built on or before May 07, 2015. I read this as a 1-time deal, as anything built 5/8/2015 on wasn't affected, and I would assume the FSM takes precedent (i.e. don't swap bolts if bracket is removed).
Most importantly, this doesn't affect anything I need to work on!
OP
shoggoth80
Well-known member
A Chilton or a Haynes would be handy about now
richfinn
Well-known member
I might be wrong, but I don't think Lisle's sockets are impact rated. I'll try to remember to check if they stamped the type of steel somewhere, but I vaguely remember being annoyed that they coated a hand-tool socket black.
I picked up an e12 1/4 drive Ko-ken and e10 1/4 drive SO from Ebay to supplement my 3/8 set as my BMW is primarily these sizes.Amen to that, Ko-ken all the way
Ko-ken > SO
What do you prefer about the Koken? I have some Koken tools that I really like and wouldn't be opposed to more - my worry with anything Torx related is always the fitment of the tool, Snap-on seems to consistently be the best across most fastener types in my experience (though I haven't used enough E-Torx to form an opinion there).
Their adds don’t mention it. I can check the marking later. It’s possible they just used a cheap coating to save costs.
Dave455
Well-known member
Thought I’d chuck my 2 cents worth in as well.
I don’t encounter E Torx that often, but when I do they seem to be used on higher torque or limited space applications, sometimes both.
For that reason, I prefer to use sockets of reasonable quality. Don’t have to be Snap On, but say in the “top half” of the quality spectrum.
With regard to Snap On, they don’t load the prices of their more specialised tools, so I would never disregard them for this sort if thing, but I note that the O.P. is looking for something at a lower price level.
For me, admittedly on the other side of the pond, I’d be looking at Hazet, Stahlwille, KoKen and Facom.
In the U.S. the Hazet are going to be costly, perhaps comparable to Snap On, but of no better quality so probably not my first choice.
They are nice though, and tough.
I have E Torx by Stahlwille, and they have been great. Part of the reason I got Stahlwille was the trade discount at the time. Totally happy with them, but if I was replacing them I’d probsbly go KoKen or Facom.
The KoKen are superb in every respect, and reasonably priced too. They also offer just about every option you could want. Far more than other manufacturers.
KoKen have pretty much become my default option for any specialised socket now.
.
Facom are also nice. I find them generally quite strong, the finish is good, and the price (at least for me) is about the most competitive.
If the O.P. needs E20 then that’s going to be 1/2” drive and the euro manufacturers traditionally offer a good selection of 1/2“ drive tools.
A couple of other considerations -
Some folks have mentioned the different chamfer on some tools. There is actually a “low profile“ E torx. I have not encountered these (seems to be mostly on Japanese products) but if you need it, some manufacturers offer separate tools for the purpose. Here KoKen.
Some manufacturers offer generic “star” sockets. They might be o.k, and those companies may be passing on the savings they make by not paying a license, but… you never know?
When Pozidriv screws were introduced, the licensing process for the screwdrivers included not only the shape of the tip, but the steel grade and heat treatment. (You will sometimes see otherwise identical Phillips and Pozidriv screwdrivers with blades from different steel).
I don’t know if this is the case with things like E Torx, but I do know that a tool using the Torx name will probably be up to spec, anything else is unknown.
Finally, I find I need a different spread of E Torx tools, compared to regular hex. With regular hex I can do 90% of what I need with regular sockets, but I need all the sizes.
With E Torx I find I only need a few sizes (somebody mentioned E10 and E12 on BMW’s - yes absolutely agreed) but I have needed all the options in these sizes - regular socket, deep and universal.
You might think that things like deep E Torx sockets are too specialised, but so often E Torx are used where access is tight, and I’ve needed the deep socket simply because it was able to access a fastener tight against a component where a regular length would not fit.
Once again, KoKen are a good choice as they offer all these options.
I don’t encounter E Torx that often, but when I do they seem to be used on higher torque or limited space applications, sometimes both.
For that reason, I prefer to use sockets of reasonable quality. Don’t have to be Snap On, but say in the “top half” of the quality spectrum.
With regard to Snap On, they don’t load the prices of their more specialised tools, so I would never disregard them for this sort if thing, but I note that the O.P. is looking for something at a lower price level.
For me, admittedly on the other side of the pond, I’d be looking at Hazet, Stahlwille, KoKen and Facom.
In the U.S. the Hazet are going to be costly, perhaps comparable to Snap On, but of no better quality so probably not my first choice.
They are nice though, and tough.
I have E Torx by Stahlwille, and they have been great. Part of the reason I got Stahlwille was the trade discount at the time. Totally happy with them, but if I was replacing them I’d probsbly go KoKen or Facom.
The KoKen are superb in every respect, and reasonably priced too. They also offer just about every option you could want. Far more than other manufacturers.
KoKen have pretty much become my default option for any specialised socket now.
.Facom are also nice. I find them generally quite strong, the finish is good, and the price (at least for me) is about the most competitive.
If the O.P. needs E20 then that’s going to be 1/2” drive and the euro manufacturers traditionally offer a good selection of 1/2“ drive tools.
A couple of other considerations -
Some folks have mentioned the different chamfer on some tools. There is actually a “low profile“ E torx. I have not encountered these (seems to be mostly on Japanese products) but if you need it, some manufacturers offer separate tools for the purpose. Here KoKen.
Some manufacturers offer generic “star” sockets. They might be o.k, and those companies may be passing on the savings they make by not paying a license, but… you never know?
When Pozidriv screws were introduced, the licensing process for the screwdrivers included not only the shape of the tip, but the steel grade and heat treatment. (You will sometimes see otherwise identical Phillips and Pozidriv screwdrivers with blades from different steel).
I don’t know if this is the case with things like E Torx, but I do know that a tool using the Torx name will probably be up to spec, anything else is unknown.
Finally, I find I need a different spread of E Torx tools, compared to regular hex. With regular hex I can do 90% of what I need with regular sockets, but I need all the sizes.
With E Torx I find I only need a few sizes (somebody mentioned E10 and E12 on BMW’s - yes absolutely agreed) but I have needed all the options in these sizes - regular socket, deep and universal.
You might think that things like deep E Torx sockets are too specialised, but so often E Torx are used where access is tight, and I’ve needed the deep socket simply because it was able to access a fastener tight against a component where a regular length would not fit.
Once again, KoKen are a good choice as they offer all these options.