Easily replaced breakaway fence posts?

[Aaron_W]

We live on a residential street corner, 25mph speed limit, moderate traffic, one way street with a stop sign, crossing a two way street without.

We seem to have an idiot driver problem, for the second time in 4 years we have had a car run the stop sign, strike another vehicle and then one or both smash through the fence ending up in the yard. First time they took out about 20 foot of fence.
This last time was a real doozy, guy must be a pool shark because they hit the corner perfectly and pretty much killed the fence in both directions.

Digging fence posts is not as exciting as it once was which leads to my question. I'm seeing some metal fence post holders, several different designs, but essentially a steel shank which gets embedded in the ground, with a metal box to grasp the base of the wooden post.

I'm wondering how well these work.

One downside I'm seeing is even of they are sturdy enough for their job, it seems the next time some nimrod plays car billiards it will shear off the post again and mangle the metal holder in the process. I will once again be digging out a post hole for replacement.

I'm beginning to think I may need to raid a junk yard and mount the posts on the coil springs from small cars.

It is a picket fence 3-4 foot tall.


Any suggestions?


We have already discussed and dismissed the Omaha beach look.

 

[RVDan]

Make the idiot drivers insurance company pay a contractor to fix your fence?

 

[RVDan]

I have five gallon buckets of concrete with 4x4 steel (3.5" ID) tube in the middle of them buried in the ground with a treated wood fence post in it. I figure when it rots out I can pull it out and drop a new post in.

 

[ItsNemo]

Get some nice landscaping stones

 

[firebirdparts]

Those things are so ugly. I would also go with the permanent hole-in-the-ground approach. I had not thought about using a wooden post, but that's good. It can't get bent.

 

[strutaeng]

You are not alone. On my way to my kid's school there's an intersection with a corner house that seems to always have their metal fence mangled up.

It stays mangled up for weeks and when they finally fix it it's mangled the next week. I'd hate to live there, LOL.

Anyways, why don't you put some bollards? I've seen some around my neighborhood at tee-intersections. They probably got smart and sick of changing fencing.

Good luck.

 

[strutaeng]

Oh, to answer your question highway signs are designed to break-away on impact. I don't know of any fencing designed to do this. If they are indeed break-away, they might wind up in your bedroom .

 

[Aaron_W]

We have seriously contemplated bollards, at least one for the corner post. Not sure about legal implications, this is California after all.

RVdan, that is an interesting idea. If nothing else it would help with the issue of the holes having to be dug a little larger each time.

Both times the insurance company got hosed. Both drivers and us have all been insured with the same company.
It is kind of goofy but we got an additional check 6 months later to cover our deductible after they settle up fault. I find that funny because it seems highly unlikely that a home could be found at fault for a car hitting it.

 

[Aaron_W]

Oh, to answer your question highway signs are designed to break-away on impact. I don't know of any fencing designed to do this. If they are indeed break-away, they might wind up in your bedroom .

That is a concern as well, it would actually be my sons bedroom. Luckily due to the most likely direction of travel, if they made it to the house they are most likely to end up on the front porch. Still we are considering putting a very stout planter box in front of that bedroom. Thinking a K rail inside a large redwood planter box should stop most vehicles and maintain a nice appearance.

 

[gahrajmahal]

Aaron, I have used the pound in metal supports you mention. We live on a corner wooded lot and our nemesis are the neighborhood deer population. We cannot surround our lot with a 6 ft tall fence, just two sides. To deter the herd from entering we supplement the fence with 8 ft tall 4 x 4 posts with decorative tops. We then nail the near invisible nylon deer netting to those posts. Usually once per year I replace a post or two where the deer gallop into the fence. True, the metal pocket usually gets bent up, but it is easy to hammer back into shape using a short section inserted to act as an anvil. Sometimes you can put it back in shape using a large adjustable wrench. They are a little spendy though, but faster and easier than digging new posts. Our mailbox that gets clobbered also I changed to a 6 x 6 post. It usually just gets plowed over but not broken. I just re-level when sticking it back into the old hole and tamp back down the dirt. No concrete to complicate things.

 

[Marctrees]

If you haven't seen this.. ideas -

https://www.google.com/search?q=sig...urnZAhWFoFMKHUYfCaYQ_AUICygC&biw=1235&bih=637

http://www.dentbreakaway.com/dent-universal-base-dub-7-5

 

[Ironcrow]

Six foot fence? I'd make a two foot tall berm topped by a four foot fence. On the street side a stack of those interlocking landscaping blocks. On the yard side a raised bed garden with attractive planting along the fence. When you get hit again, it's just a matter of rearranging the landscape blocks.

 

[majerus]

That ***** I have a neighbor in a similar situation, however each time it happens they just have the drivers insurance fix the fence, and yard damage.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I'm seeing some metal fence post holders, several different designs, but essentially a steel shank which gets embedded in the ground, with a metal box to grasp the base of the wooden post.

I used some of these for a short section of fence in my back yard, between the edge of my property and the neighbor's driveway. They were easy to install and have held up well - I think they've been in place now for 15 or 20 years now, I can't remember exactly.

I haven't had anyone drive through the fence, but I think the post holders would most likely just pull out of the ground if that did happen.

 

[Bad Eye Bill]

Drivers insurance has to cover this as far as I know. If it doesn't something is seriously f'ed up.

 

[Killer95Stang]

That ***** I have a neighbor in a similar situation, however each time it happens they just have the drivers insurance fix the fence, and yard damage.

He lives in California... half the time you are lucky if the idiot doesnt run from the accident he caused, let alone dream that he would actually have adequate insurance coverage or insurance coverage at all.

My wife has been hit twice in the last few years and both times we had to use our unisured/ underinsured motorist coverage, because *** backwards .CA allows people to have a $5k liability policy.

 

[maxpat82]

the steel shank and metal box, doesn't work that good.

My mom had this and the fence have just been falling over slowly every winter.(quebec might not be your case in CA)
5+years ago we remove all of those and dig hole and concrete with 4x4 fence pole. no issue since....but it's like you are right now.

 

[dbabicky]

Texas Weights !!

 

[Aaron_W]

Drivers insurance has to cover this as far as I know. If it doesn't something is seriously f'ed up.

The insurance did ok by us the first time.

The most recent incident has been a pain getting them to even close to a reasonable amount.

Both drivers had the same insurance, which is also who we use so the the insurance company is paying for everything. It is pretty clear they are trying to save money where they can.

The vehicles were a brand new pickup that didn't even have plates, and a fairly new car. Our fence is pennies by comparison so you would think they would just take care of us. I almost rejected the offer we finally accepted because the woman all but accused us of stealing from them.

If we had not been with the company for years and had good service in the past, we would already be shopping for a new company.


Amazingly we couldn't get a local contractor to give us an estimate. Apparently after the large fires in the area, they are all too good for a simple fence project.

 

[Bad Eye Bill]

The insurance did ok by us the first time.

The most recent incident has been a pain getting them to even close to a reasonable amount.

Both drivers had the same insurance, which is also who we use so the the insurance company is paying for everything. It is pretty clear they are trying to save money where they can.

The vehicles were a brand new pickup that didn't even have plates, and a fairly new car. Our fence is pennies by comparison so you would think they would just take care of us. I almost rejected the offer we finally accepted because the woman all but accused us of stealing from them.

If we had not been with the company for years and had good service in the past, we would already be shopping for a new company.


Amazingly we couldn't get a local contractor to give us an estimate. Apparently after the large fires in the area, they are all too good for a simple fence project.

Should be no question. Your property should be restored to pre-damaged condition, no if's, and's or but's.

Hope you get fixed up to your satisfaction.

 

[strutaeng]

The insurance did ok by us the first time.

The most recent incident has been a pain getting them to even close to a reasonable amount.

Both drivers had the same insurance, which is also who we use so the the insurance company is paying for everything. It is pretty clear they are trying to save money where they can.

The vehicles were a brand new pickup that didn't even have plates, and a fairly new car. Our fence is pennies by comparison so you would think they would just take care of us. I almost rejected the offer we finally accepted because the woman all but accused us of stealing from them.

If we had not been with the company for years and had good service in the past, we would already be shopping for a new company.


Amazingly we couldn't get a local contractor to give us an estimate. Apparently after the large fires in the area, they are all too good for a simple fence project.

I was just going to comment about dealing with insurances. What you said is exactly what I was going to hypothetically assume: Accident, put claim, wait, wait more, call and raise hell only to get short-changed.

I'd vote for bollards. Find a steel yard buy a "stick" and have them cut 4' segments of some 4 to 6" schedule 40 pipe. Sink in them ground 2' and fill them with concrete and paint them. Set them 4-5' apart. You probably only need 4 or 5, right? You need a barrier between the street and your fence. A typical fence is no match for a moving 3500 lb mass.

You are probably looking at $300 in materials and one day of work.

Your city/town may have a transportation office that deals with street signage. It might be worthwhile to talk to them to see if they can add additional signage or rumble strips or something else.

 

[ozyborn]

Large rocks and sink a few heavy steel posts. Stop them in their tracks.

 

[AZ Pete]

ADOT use to, and may still, set their guard rail timbers in concrete. However, since these are routinely hit by traffic, they would wrap the bottom part of the timber in 1/2" styrofoam, and cross drill the timber at ground level. When the guard rail is eventually hit, the timber shears off at ground level, usually leaving the concrete foundation intact. Then the maintenance crew melts the styrofoam with gasoline, releasing the stub of the timber so a new one can be driven into the same concrete foundation.

I think that if you put in bollards, you may want tor review any enhanced liability you may incur, with an attorney.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

There is a legal issue here as well, for protecting your property with steel bollards may be something a driver can sue for damages when they hit it. Yes, I know, stupid, but it is the same logic that allows burglars to sue homeowners for injuries while robbing you. Seriously, it happens.

The other issue with a berm, while looking pretty decent, is that you may inadvertently create a ramp to help launch that out of control car up and over the berm- and into your house. This too happens.

I would check with the city to see if they have issues with you putting in your own traffic control restraints, or better yet, if they would be willing to install a guard rail or their own devices on city property. If they are unwilling, get that in writing as you may be able to use that with your insurance company to use in litigation later if need be.

In the end, dang, no really good answers. Railroad ties for a raised flower bed could help, but those too will get hit and destroyed. Rocks, bollards, anything in the way to stop the car will be a problem for liability.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Eight to twelve inch pipe with welded on heavy angle iron clips for eight ft 2 X 8 laterals for fence. Fill with concrete.

1 X 3 flat bar into concrete with shear plate. Three 3/8" shear bolts for access. Attach top fences to concrete post stub bottoms with chain or cable to keep it out of your bedroom.

Decorative concrete beams on decorative concrete spacers. Breakaway fence sections mounted on house side of beam but not in the ground. When car knocks beam off perch, Jack back in place. Replace fence sections damaged beyond repair.

50 gallon barrel filled with water come in a lovely shade of blue.


Forget fence. Learn to love gabions.

Probably only 15 ft of fence line is at risk. Decorative 2000lb planters are a natural.

Berms can get a car airborn.

 

[Lassen Forge]

To do a breakaway fence post you need to drill a set of holes 1/4 to 2/5 the width of the post at (probably) 4" above ground level. That's how we do it where I work... (Won't say where, but if you know the answer to "What's painted orange and sleeps 6?"...) Upi ave the stub to (hopefully) grab, and the post foes down easy.

I heard about the AZOT styrosleeves, I always thought that was a super bad, um, "AZ" idea... --grins-- Of course in California, you can't deliberately pour gasoline on the ground (to melt out the styro buffer), but if it were me, I'd do that.

Otherwise... 6-8' structural I beam, driven in 3-5 ft, and then connect them so the decorative (and concealing) hedge has a place to grow...

 

[NUTTSGT]

How about some old whiskey barrels full of chicks/hens ?

 

[ItsNemo]

Seriously nothing will be as cheap/easy as some big rocks.

 

[JamesW84]

I'll second the liability argument. In a college insurance class, there was a story about a burglar who broke in a lady's skylight, fell onto a knife in the kitchen and either he lived and sued or he died and his family sued. I believe they ended up winning.

 

[Aaron_W]

The immovable object unfortunately has several issues, the legal aspect being one. Not much point in building an indestructible fence if the next dipshit who smashes into it, hires a lawyer and costs us the house.



Getting stop signs installed on the cross street is a project of mine. no experience, but I have plenty of time to harass, err educate officials. There is also a pre-school across the street. I'm sure some of the parents there would welcome stop signs at the intersection.



I had not considered talking to the city transportation people to see if they have any ideas regarding keeping traffic out of our yard.

Ironically the city installed a very resistant barrier on the corner, it just isn't wide enough. There is a telephone pole on the corner. In the previous accident that was the difference between one car and two in our yard.


I am going to look into bollards. If I find they are an approved "fence post" that could work. We could still have an attractive fence and have more resistance to unplanned visitors.

Really I just hate digging fence posts.

 

[JamesW84]

Really I just hate digging fence posts.

Rented an auger to do my moms fence last fall. I think it was around $200 for 4 hours, but maybe I'm mistaken. Worth it to me to not have to dig 30 holes in our rocky dirt. They could deliver if you can't pick it up.

 

[Milton Shaw]

The state DOT on there cable barriers on the interstates put in something like a 2" square tube in a 18" wide strip of concrete with the tube flush with the concrete. Then put a 1 1/2 square tube to hold the cable. This eliminated weed eating around the fence and the bent poles just pull out and leave the socket in the concrete ready to put new posts in. Works great. You may have similar cable guards out there. In Tennessee they didn't put the narrow concrete sidewalk under the cable so they have to weed eat still. In Ark they did them a couple of years later and by then the US DOT had included the sidewalk. Makes it a simple matter to mow the right-of-way now. Dye the concrete green to make it match your yard may satisfy the wife don't know about that...

 

[Citation]

My grandmother's old farm had fence posts like these

Solid concrete. They were around long after the fences weren't.

 

[kwb]

I don't have the traffic problem of the OP but I think the best idea on this thread is to take a series of 4x4x.25 square tube about 2' long and embed in 4' deep concrete ~12" diameter then use PT 4x4's for fence posts. They will fit tightly but should breakaway if struck without disrupting the concrete.

I did the embedded 4x4 for a single fencepost so that I can get equipment into my backyard when needed. Just have to remove two panels and creates a 16' opening to be able to move anything I might ever need to get back there.

Rocks or Berm can also make for a good looking and effective means of protecting the fence.

and x1000 for renting an auger to drill the post holes.

 

[rsanter]

Place some large decorative rocks outside the fence and make sure they are partly buried.

That or install 6” concrete filled pipes buried 6’ into the ground

 

[KEH]

I don't know about other states, but here in SC I am sure you can put anything on your own property( well , not explosives) outside the highway right of way to protect your property or for decoration. A few miles away there was a waterline project in which some large rocks were dug up and placed just off the highway right of way. Someone else put large rocks on the highway right of way, for decoration, and I commented about it to a lawyer friend and he said that was not legal, especially since they were on the road side of the ditch.

My own house does not have those problems since it is 200 yards off the highway and is separated by an old road bed with trees growing in it. Distance alone is not always enough.A few miles away some years ago a car left the road and went about 150 yards across a level field and almost through a house. Since then trees have been planted and another house built in the way of off road traffic.

Perhaps the OP does not have a big enough lot to have distance to provide protection. If there is enough space between the road ROW and the house I also vote for "decorative" rocks.

KEH

 

[Ironcrow]

The other issue with a berm, while looking pretty decent, is that you may inadvertently create a ramp to help launch that out of control car up and over the berm- and into your house. This too happens.

Not a ramp, square edge thing lined with block. A town nearby made block planters in the middle of several traffic circles. They keep getting run into by drunks who forget to turn. The city just replaces the block and shovels in some dirt to repair them. Two guys, 4 hours, 1 yard of dirt, and $50 for new blocks. I've seen the blocks displaced in a dozen accidents in the last 10 years and they haven't launch a car yet.

 

[strutaeng]

I guess it happens more often than we think:

https://www.google.com/search?q=car...UIDCgD&biw=1680&bih=935#imgrc=3vpVIssmijzLwM:

Sadly, some are likely fatal for either driver and/or house occupants. I know recently in the local news there was a fatality to house occupant as he was sleeping in his bedroom and a car drove into his house.

OP, I can't imagine having legal restrictions on doing any kind of barrier. It's your property and life you are trying to protect. You are not in public property.

Do something so you can sleep at night.

At least buy a junk car and park inside your property or fill some 55 gallon drums with water.

 

[Ironcrow]

Accidents that are normally funny are hilarious when the Wienermobile is involved.

 

[Falcon67]

I don't know about other states, but here in SC I am sure you can put anything on your own property( well , not explosives) outside the highway right of way to protect your property or for decoration.

I was going to say about the same thing - there is a Right of Way and/or easement that belongs to the city - usually measured from the center of the roadway. You do not - technically - own the property all the way to the street. Our corner pins are about 8' from the road surface but it's a skinny strip of asphalt and not a "real" street. The AHJ can pretty much take out anything in that zone, or force removal.

One thing not mentioned that is usually ignored in that zone is trees. A couple or three fast growing Arizona Ash or similar might have time to big enough to stop the next one.

Or posts + K-rail behind your fence, hidden by bushes or in a big planter. Or possibly a concrete "footer" about 2~3' tall with the fence on top.