Educate me - tap and die sets?

[Ricky Joe]

The material being threaded/repaired doesn't seem to be mentioned, nor does the size. They both should be considered. Tapping/repairing mild steel, brass, or plastic are less problematic than tapping/repairing something in SS, cast iron, or heat treated steel. SS can be a PITA to work with due to work hardening, type of SS, and/or the condition the existing threads are in. I don't attempt making/repairing threads in anything less than HSS, plain carbon steel may/may not work. That's just my experience and my opinion. Size of tap/die can make a difference as well. For threads smaller than 1/4 it's quite easy to snap off a tap, larger taps made from plain carbon steel may work ok for repair.

From the video posted above even 3 holes started producing wear characteristics on many of the taps. The question is just how many repairs will you do before your taps start getting dull and risk breaking off in the next hole? Won't offer comment on the re-threading varieties, never use them. A full plain carbon steel set may be ok for occasional re-threading jobs, it may let you down one day. It's up to individual choice. Buying a few common higher quality HSS taps/dies is a good choice too. It depends upon what the buyer expects. A machinist has an opinion based upon expectations for work performance just like anybody else. To flatly state that opinion is "bad advice" is uninformed nonsense. Buy what suits your budget, expectations, and are aware of the limitations of your choice. There is no single choice that fits everybody's requirements.

I prefer using HSS for new/repairing threads because that hole is usually too important to take unnecessary risks, any threading job is already risky enough. I use what gives me a good chance at the results I want. This is just my experience and my opinion. What I choose to do may not be suitable for you. Almost everybody here has offered what I consider good advice, the choice is up to you and what you consider important.

If you overhaul engines, you would definitely use thread chasers for engine blocks and head bolt studs and bolts. A tap or die would alter the threads and potentially create leaks. Any thread that requires a torque value should be cleaned up and chased.

 

[RoninB4]

If you overhaul engines, you would definitely use thread chasers for engine blocks and head bolt studs and bolts. A tap or die would alter the threads and potentially create leaks. Any thread that requires a torque value should be cleaned up and chased.

-I'll take your word for it but don't see how a tap or die that conforms to the appropriate designation (2A/2B 3A/3B for example) would render that hole/stud as different than the OEM made it. Even over/under-size taps/dies follow specific dimensions. OEM specifies tooling to manufacture per SAE standards unless it's a weird non-standard. That's how mass production started. I don't re-use head studs or any other critical threaded fastener once it's been torqued (stretched) to spec.

 

[turner66]

Same as Kastar which is slightly less expensive on Amazon

Amazon.com

So this whole thread prompted me to order another/2nd Kastar 971 rethreading set since i've been meaning to get one for my son anyway... This was the ordered KASTAR item on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003QHQEPE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

If there was any doubt, this showed up via FedEx today. I don't remember how the last one came, but they sure didn't even bother to rebrand or repackage this one LoL...

 

[four.cycle]

^ Kastar, Lang, A&E = all one and the same company.

 

[Steve_P]

I have the Lang set and also a drawer of individual taps and dies- only because I inherited a ton of inch size from my dad and then just added to them from Enco, etc. If I was starting fresh, I'd get the Lang set and probably an Irwin Hanson set. I have several Irwin taps and dies and they are fine; I know they are not the best, but I believe this is what Snap On sells; either way, they aren't junk. And the "OMG, you can't run the same size tap by hand thru an already threaded hole....." is way overblown. Get a 3/8-16 nut. You can thread a tap thru it with your fingers, which means you are not removing material; if not something is wrong.

 

[nbpt100]

I have an irwin SAE USA made set that I acquied in the 1980's. It goes from a about a #4 to 1/2". I have used it a lot for cleaning threads. Even though 25% of them have never been used , I still find it has been very valuable. Over that time I Maybe used them 20 or 30 times to cut a brand new thread. Sometimes when a bolt was broken off and I had to drill it over sized and put the next size screw in. Has anyone ever used a 7/16 tap or die? I know some JD wheel bolts are 7/16-20. That is all I have ever seen.

Having it is like an insurance policy. Plus a set comes with the tap and die handles and storage box. It helps you stay organized and that has value.

For Metric I have bought what I needed and have been gifted a bunch more. M12 in corse and fine thread has been very helpfull on wheel studs and lug nuts that do not want to freely spin.

Last summer I picked up a Husky SAE/Metric Tap and Die set on sale for around $95. I did not really need it. I thought is was a good deal and good to have a back up. The case is nice to travel with and the handles are the ratchet type and better than the ones I have. So it was a bit of an upgrade. Maybe not machine shop quality but so far they have been good.

I know the quality of Irwin has diminished in recent years. They are currently owned by Stanley Black and Decker which I bet most here know.

I have always been leary of Pittsburgh cutting tools. If you break a tap off in your work you can be in worse trouble than you thought. It is good to hear in this thread that some members like their tap and dies. Who would have known?

I am not rebuilding car engines but I use my taps and dies to chase buggered up threads all the time on ODPE and sometimes my vehicles. That is likely 80% of what they have been used for. I do not think I have ruined anything by using taps and not thread chasers. If anything, I have repaired threads back to working as they should. If a thread is real a disaster it gets drilled out and an insert is installed .... or drilled/tapped for a larger screw size.

I am a vote for go buy a new set if you have the money. They do not take up much space. More versatile than thread chasers. Make sure you will like the handles and the storage case is decent. Not a cardboard box. A Mid grade should serve you well. I do not know which brand is the best value. I will stay out of that. You should not have to spend the kind money on that Irwin website you were looking at.

Do not over look stuff on CL or FB Market place. Sometimes I see older USA made Tap and die sets for sale. You can sometimes tell how used they are. Some may have a few missing sizes but if the deal is cheap enough you can justify buying singles.

You know that feeling when all of a sudden you need a tool you did not expect to need....... and then realize you do have it?

No one has every complained about owning a never/rarely used tool when they all of a sudden need it. It is always when you do not have it.
Good Luck.

 

[AirMech#406]

^ Kastar, Lang, A&E = all one and the same company.

Didn't know that. Good info

 

[xOccupantx]

I have the Lang set and also a drawer of individual taps and dies- only because I inherited a ton of inch size from my dad and then just added to them from Enco, etc. If I was starting fresh, I'd get the Lang set and probably an Irwin Hanson set. I have several Irwin taps and dies and they are fine; I know they are not the best, but I believe this is what Snap On sells; either way, they aren't junk. And the "OMG, you can't run the same size tap by hand thru an already threaded hole....." is way overblown. Get a 3/8-16 nut. You can thread a tap thru it with your fingers, which means you are not removing material; if not something is wrong.

Snap On makes their own now since the whole Irwin/Snap On/Malco debacle. Same with extractors and drill bits and everything else Irwin used to make for Snap On.

That said I’ve been using a Matco set for the last few years. I got it in a smoking deal. It’s made by Astro who sells it under their label for much cheaper than the truck. Highly recommend. Plus the Astro ratcheting tap handle is the best I’ve ever used.

 

[nbpt100]

The OP may find this thread on Taps and Die sets infomative. It is from 2021 so not too old.

Looking for a nice under $200 Tap and Die set.

Hi, I have a thread restorer kit but I am looking for a decent well rounded kit. Any ideas? Thanks

www.garagejournal.com

 

[MBfreak]

I live in an old industrial area in Sweden.
Many one man shops are closing down and owners sell off their considerable tool hoards, all best quality, much of it never used.
So I have accumulated a tap and die collection from M1 to M12, (several pitches on M3 to M12) all made by CEJ ( of micrometer fame ) and SKF ( of ball bearing fame) Also some pipe threads, but harder to find.
All are honed and superpolished. Cut even stainless like butter.

No boxes from Asia for me.

Ola

 

[ecotec]

I have the Lang set and also a drawer of individual taps and dies- only because I inherited a ton of inch size from my dad and then just added to them from Enco, etc. If I was starting fresh, I'd get the Lang set and probably an Irwin Hanson set. I have several Irwin taps and dies and they are fine; I know they are not the best, but I believe this is what Snap On sells; either way, they aren't junk. And the "OMG, you can't run the same size tap by hand thru an already threaded hole....." is way overblown. Get a 3/8-16 nut. You can thread a tap thru it with your fingers, which means you are not removing material; if not something is wrong.

At work, we have NEVER been bought rethreading taps… anything that I have ever done on a job… tapping or rethreading… has been done with regular taps…

At home, I have both.

I have considered buying a split die rethreader for 1/2” threaded rod. People do not treat threaded rod as gently as they should…

 

[nbpt100]

At work, we have NEVER been bought rethreading taps… anything that I have ever done on a job… tapping or rethreading… has been done with regular taps…

At home, I have both.

I have considered buying a split die rethreader for 1/2” threaded rod. People do not treat threaded rod as gently as they should…

When I was taking automotive repair at the trade school the instructor told me to use a rethreader on an aluminum thread hole on a transmission block. I was going to use a regular tap and he said no use the Snap On rethreader tool. At that time I had a lot of machine shop experience so I knew how to tap a thread and be careful.

I did what he told me and it ruined the thread. I had a couple more negative experiences with rethreaders in Aluminum. Most Aluminum does not yield well with out cracking(5052 does, cast and 6061 does not). I never made a thread in Alum worse off with with a tap. I do not know exactly why for sure the rethreader was a disaster. I understand the theory in how a rethreader may be better. I will never use one in Aluminum again. Some may tell me it was operator error. OK fine. I will listen with an open mind if you can give me an intellectually honest theory. The concept of the rethreader is to yield the material back in place. Sometimes removing a burr or damaged material is better than forcing it back to where it was. If the thread is that bad helicoil it and sleep well.

Threaded rod is usually made from a lower quality steel. Like a grade 2 bolt or even ungraded. More prone to damage. Why do people throw it around and rough it up? Maybe they are not the ones using it?????

 

[F-22]

I filled up my tap and die drawer by buying them on various flea markets.
It's really easy to say to not buy a big set, cause those brands that sell such sets are typically quite ******. A high end machinist tap from Sandvik or Walter or Emuge Franken is on a totally different level than even the most expensive snap on set out there, but it is also a lot more brittle so a lot easier to snap them...


There's also many kinds of taps and you need to take that into consideration. Most obvious difference are the straight flute and the spiral flute. Typically, the spiral is used to evacuate the chips up the spiral and out of the hole. Those taps are used for blind holes. The flat flutes have some differences, the totally flat ones are typically for manual use where the chips get broken up and stay between the flutes and you may even clean it on very deep holes. And then there are the "gun point" taps which push the chips down through the hole - only meant to be used for through-holes.

In modern machining the spiral ones are very common cause it's harder to mess it up - you can do through or blind holes with it...

Of course there are many more differences, the high performance taps are also color coded for their purpose, I think green is the most universal one, red is for hard steel and stainless steel and there's also black and white (one is for cast iron and one for aluminium, forgot which is which). I think there are also blue coded taps but I don't know what for.

Also, just have to add this video, it's so amazing to me how far technology has come... The final tap just devours those holes!

 

[milkovich]

I buy old "Kromedge" Craftsman kits as a starter set and add/replace what I need as I use it up, usually Made in USA Irwin if I can find it. It's not a ti coated kyocera or whatever but I have good luck with them. I find I need multiples of a few sizes and some have never been used. I think the jig is up though, the price of these old kits keeps going up on ebay. Here's a good one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/185761776859

 

[ecotec]

I have enough tap and die that I do not have to use my sets.

I do not need anywhere near what I have… so I can afford to be picky. Like everything else from the secondary market, I want the best of the best for nothing… I want barely used or (preferably) unused, and I don’t want to pay much…

Here are a couple of my Kromedge sets. They are both unused. The SAE set is in the cellophane and has its receipt from 1975. The original purchaser paid over $20 in 1975… I paid $10.

 

[ecotec]

I have the same 48pc Lang Kastar rethreading set that a lot of GJ people have… so I won’t dig that out… but I keep my eyes on a swivel for expansion sets. These are Snap-on and BONNEY.