electric heat

[clawman]

I am building a 30x40 14' tall shop. What would be the best way to heat using electric heat?
baseboard?
wall heaters?
furnace?

I plan to keep the shop heated to about 50 deg.

My thoughts are that it is going to take "X" kilowatts to heat the space regardless of the configuration. Is it that simple?

edit- it is going to cost 3,000 to bring in gas and electricity costs 6.5 cents per kw. My rational is I am only going to heat to 50 deg 4 months of the year so I would never get payback on the 3k gas line.

 

[jhelrey]

Electric- $$$$

 

[clawman]

Electric- $$$$

wow isn't that helpful???

 

[850xpeps]

Your best bet is gonna be a furnace if that’s your 3 options. It will keep the air moving and more even temperature.

 

[terabitdan]

Where are you located? How is the garage insulated? Will it be constantly heated? What about A/C? All of those influence your decision.

A heat pump or mini-split is generally between between 1.5x and 3x more efficient than electric heat, has A/C but costs more for initial install. If your in a really cold area (regularly below 5 deg F) getting a low ambient adds about $1k. That pays for a lot of electric heat.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[James-W]

I agree with choosing the furnace, of the three options listed I think the furnace would be the best option.

 

[shaggyant]

My thoughts are that it is going to take "X" kilowatts to heat the space regardless of the configuration. Is it that simple?

Your statement is true if you are using resistive electric heat. The only way you will get more than 3.412 BTU/hr from 1 watt of electricity is if you go to a heat pump.

Heat pump is way more expensive up front but you’ll save by being 1.5x-3x as energy efficient depending on the type of heat pump and the ambient temps outside when you are running. As a bonus you’ll get a free air conditioner out of the deal.

Edit: if you have the space for it a ground source heat pump may be a good option.

 

[yeldogt]

If set on doing an electric I think combination is best. I had a strip of baseboard on an open wall as well as two Marley fan units .. also had an in-wall fan unit in my sit down work area.

I'm not sure why you would want a furnace?

The baseboard strip is cheap and easy to control -- long lived. Having two smaller fan units is better for air movement and more control ... I could use the in-wall unit to boost temp when sitting at my bench. The Marley units had two output setting. 2 and 4 k

Electric heat is great -- especially with cheap rates.

 

[finn]

If set on doing an electric I think combination is best. I had a strip of baseboard on an open wall as well as two Marley fan units .. also had an in-wall fan unit in my sit down work area.

I'm not sure why you would want a furnace?

The baseboard strip is cheap and easy to control -- long lived. Having two smaller fan units is better for air movement and more control ... I could use the in-wall unit to boost temp when sitting at my bench. The Marley units had two output setting. 2 and 4 k

Electric heat is great -- especially with cheap rates.

I’d edit your last line to say “only with cheap rates “.

 

[850xpeps]

If set on doing an electric I think combination is best. I had a strip of baseboard on an open wall as well as two Marley fan units .. also had an in-wall fan unit in my sit down work area.

I'm not sure why you would want a furnace?

The baseboard strip is cheap and easy to control -- long lived. Having two smaller fan units is better for air movement and more control ... I could use the in-wall unit to boost temp when sitting at my bench. The Marley units had two output setting. 2 and 4 k

Electric heat is great -- especially with cheap rates.

Baseboards are a terrible way to heat. They only heat a small area. The furnace will circulate the air it heats.

 

[Dragfluid]

You know that you're going to need one hell of an electrical service to power your electrical heat, right?
OK if I ask a couple more questions? What part of the country are you located?

Why so set on electric for such a large area? Are there going to be a lot of flammable/explosive fumes created?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Baseboard heat is cheap and easy to install. The problem is can not store anything in front of it. If you space them too far apart, you have cold spots.

If you are going to go electric, probably your simplest option is a ceiling hung unit. Again you have to watch out for cold spots and off hand, I don't know anyway to slave a couple together, but I am certain it can be done.

 

[clawman]

You know that you're going to need one hell of an electrical service to power your electrical heat, right?
OK if I ask a couple more questions? What part of the country are you located?

Why so set on electric for such a large area? Are there going to be a lot of flammable/explosive fumes created?

It is going to cost 3,000 to bring in gas and electricity costs 6.5 cents per kw. My rational is I am only going to heat to 50 deg 4 months of the year so I would never get payback on the 3k gas line.

 

[Bolson32]

There's a lot we need to know here. Electric heat is cheap up front and depending on rates can be the best way to go. This is coming from a guy who heats his 22x15 garage in Minnesota using a ceiling hung unit. With that said...That's a pretty big space for electric so you'll probably need at least 2 7500w units which can add up on electricity costs. These would each need dedicated 40amp circuits which puts you in the 100amp range for your subpanel.

Where do you live is probably the biggest and how well insulated is it? Mini-splits are great in certain climates, some of them even work pretty good in sub zero weather but you'll have a pretty large up front cost.

 

[Bolson32]

It is going to cost 3,000 to bring in gas and electricity costs 6.5 cents per kw. My rational is I am only going to heat to 50 deg 4 months of the year so I would never get payback on the 3k gas line.

Yea 6.5 cents/kWh is dirt cheap. I'd probably go with a couple of ceiling units then as well. Cost you just under a dollar an hour to run both of them if they're 7500w units. You would get your money back, probably. It just might take like 20+ years and who knows how long you'll keep the shop.

I have a Menards special profusion that does a great job and it was like $90. My garage has spray foam ceilings and R-14 in the walls. Lately I've been keeping it at like 40 degrees round the clock.

Few pics of my garage for reference.
https://imgur.com/a/zItBM

 

[yeldogt]

Baseboards are a terrible way to heat. They only heat a small area. The furnace will circulate the air it heats.

Since when ? They are used all over the place ... they worked great in my studio 1700sf.

buying an electric furnace and doing ductwork w/o AC .. I don't see the logic.

 

[yeldogt]

I’d edit your last line to say “only with cheap rates “.

I had to have electric heat in the city .. it was my only option. It works great .. fast and silent. When Mini Splits became available -- I put one in .. but, still needed the resistance to supplement in that space.

 

[850xpeps]

Since when ? They are used all over the place ... they worked great in my studio 1700sf.



buying an electric furnace and doing ductwork w/o AC .. I don't see the logic.

It’s a garage it moves the air more than enough. And if you want $200 in ducting will make it better. There’s a reason no one puts baseboards in anything new It’s easy install but in a garage it’s much easier to hang a furnace and that’s it done deal

 

[yeldogt]

Depending on the insulation -- you may find 7500 x2 running may be too much. That's why I liked having the two output units. It's more comfortable having a smaller one running vs a larger one going on and off.

at .06kw ... you will find keeping the space warmer will not cost you all that much ... mine was almost .20

I had my fan units lower on the wall and blowing across the floor -- you want the heat low at the floor not up at the ceiling.

 

[850xpeps]

Since when ? They are used all over the place ... they worked great in my studio 1700sf.



buying an electric furnace and doing ductwork w/o AC .. I don't see the logic.

It’s a garage it moves the air more than enough. And if you want $200 in ducting will make it better. There’s a reason no one puts baseboards in anything new It’s easy install but in a garage it’s much easier to hang a furnace and that’s it done deal

 

[nh_yota]

Heat pump with backup resistance heat.

 

[yeldogt]

It’s a garage it moves the air more than enough. And if you want $200 in ducting will make it better. There’s a reason no one puts baseboards in anything new It’s easy install but in a garage it’s much easier to hang a furnace and that’s it done deal

People don't use electric because of the cost ...

Basboard may not work because of his lay out -- often one wall is open and it's a great place for a long strip. It's used all over the city

 

[850xpeps]

People don't use electric because of the cost ...



Basboard may not work because of his lay out -- often one wall is open and it's a great place for a long strip. It's used all over the city

Both of these examples are electric so I don’t know what that has to do with it? Forced air is cheaper than baseboards because of air movement and not heating 8” in front of it and straight up.

 

[yeldogt]

Both of these examples are electric so I don’t know what that has to do with it? Forced air is cheaper than baseboards because of air movement and not heating 8” in front of it and straight up.

Have you lived in a space heated with electric ? Electric is electric .. one is not cheaper vs the other. As I said above .. a mix is best. People install an electric furnace so it can be hidden w/ductwork. In a garage situation all one needs is a utility heater -- simple and easy install.

My city garage has two strips of electric on each side --

 

[850xpeps]

Have you lived in a space heated with electric ? Electric is electric .. one is not cheaper vs the other. As I said above .. a mix is best. People install an electric furnace so it can be hidden w/ductwork. In a garage situation all one needs is a utility heater -- simple and easy install.



My city garage has two strips of electric on each side --

That’s all we have in our area is electric. Baseboard heaters in a garage that size will cost more as you will be turning up the heat to feel comfortable in the middle where as the furnace will be even in the entire garage. 10 degrees in the whole garage as opposed to keep 15-20 on edges to get 10 in middle

 

[Bolson32]

Depending on the insulation -- you may find 7500 x2 running may be too much. That's why I liked having the two output units. It's more comfortable having a smaller one running vs a larger one going on and off.

The 5000w are rated at 500sq ft for what I assume to be 8ft ceilings. With 1200sq ft and 14ft ceilings I would think you'd want to go to the 7500w versions as you can always run them at a lower wattage if you want. I have the 5000w in my 330sq ft with a hip roof and I wouldn't want a much bigger building with that heater. Ceiling fans will help a lot in this situation.

 

[Dragfluid]

It is going to cost 3,000 to bring in gas and electricity costs 6.5 cents per kw. My rational is I am only going to heat to 50 deg 4 months of the year so I would never get payback on the 3k gas line.

It costs nothing for your local gas company to bring in a propane tank and run the line to the outside of the building.

 

[tom-ky]

It costs nothing for your local gas company to bring in a propane tank and run the line to the outside of the building.

Here they won't do much for free.

 

[Bolson32]

It costs nothing for your local gas company to bring in a propane tank and run the line to the outside of the building.

You assume he lives in place without NG and not in a city. I live in a city with NG and propane tanks are heavily restricted by city code. It's also substantially more expensive than NG.

 

[yeldogt]

The 5000w are rated at 500sq ft for what I assume to be 8ft ceilings. With 1200sq ft and 14ft ceilings I would think you'd want to go to the 7500w versions as you can always run them at a lower wattage if you want. I have the 5000w in my 330sq ft with a hip roof and I wouldn't want a much bigger building with that heater. Ceiling fans will help a lot in this situation.

That's why I said to have a mix -- some of the 7500 don't have two setting.

It's all a question of insulation -- sealing things up

 

[The_Auto_Tech]

Propane is much more expensive than NG, to the point where it's not that much cheaper than electric. If I ran a 30,000 BTU torpedo heater for as much as I'm in the garage I'd go through at minimum two 20 pound tanks a month. That's like 40 bucks in propane. My electric heater is gonna cost me about 40 a month, and I don't have to refill anything.

 

[Dragfluid]

I see.
I don't have a choice here. No natural gas anywhere close. So for this Shed, I use a 75,000 BTU propane hanging unit and I've used about $100 worth so far since I turned it on this fall. And that's having it no less than 58F when I'm not in the shop area, and around 63F when I am.

I guess cost is all relative.

 

[jvitez]

http://www.ouellet.com/en-ca/products/residential-products.aspx?product=176&code=OWC-M

All the benefits of in floor radiant heat, easy to install, all electric, once and done. You can also install an electric forced air unit heater in addition, and turn it on if you want a higher temp quickly.

 

[2level]

OP / clawman - A thru-the-wall PTAC or PTHP heat pump will cost you about $900 brand new (or less than half that if used). You'll probably need two of them to heat that big of a shop. These units will also probably lower your power consumption by half, versus regular 100% resistance electric heat.

 

[James-W]

Here they won't do much for free.

That's weird, apparently in different parts of the country things are done differently. Around here the gas company will run a natural gas line up to 100 feet for free. The propane company will give you a tank to use for free and they will run a line to your shop for free, as long as you buy the propane from them. All you have to do is get the line run inside the shop and hooked up to your heater. The different energy companies want your business and they are willing to work with the customer.

 

[bobbyjean]

i remember the utility company offering rebates for heat pump systems....enough said

 

[Falcon67]

Electric- $$$$

LOL - so is propane @ +2/gallon, tank, lines, trenching, inspection, installation and heater. Not everybody has NG running down the alley or is allowed to set a 250 gallon propane tank inside city limits.

Heat pump is what we use on the house. Shop not big enough to worry about. We also shop electric rates in 12 month contracts.

 

[mx500]

Propane is much more expensive than NG, to the point where it's not that much cheaper than electric. If I ran a 30,000 BTU torpedo heater for as much as I'm in the garage I'd go through at minimum two 20 pound tanks a month. That's like 40 bucks in propane. My electric heater is gonna cost me about 40 a month, and I don't have to refill anything.

Propane is only $2 gallon most places if you can get a larger tank. 20lb tank only has 4 gallons in it..

 

[Showkey]

Current propane pricing in Wisconsin for the last month

2017-Nov
11/06 1.616
11/13 1.630
11/20 1.676
11/27 1.707
2017-Dec
12/04 1.711

 

[The_Auto_Tech]

Propane is only $2 gallon most places if you can get a larger tank. 20lb tank only has 4 gallons in it..

Depends on what your local code is. Some places you cannot have a large propane tank in city limits, especially residential areas. I believe that is the case here as well. Also, I don't have room for a huge propane tank without it being in the way outside the garage, and there's not enough room for a propane fill truck to get down the driveway to fill it. Also, I'm not lugging 50 gallon or 100 gallon tanks around. That's a HUGE pain in the ***.