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Electric hot water floor heating?

brupska

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Oct 14, 2016
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3
Hello all, I have a 32x28 13 foot ceiling well insulated garage. I also insulated under the slab and installed four 250' runs of 1/2 pex. I purchased a Nibco hot water floor heat control board and pump system. I have a open loop system now with a 50 gallon electric water heater as a hot water source. I am limited to electric only. I have tried this system the past three years but have always stopped using it because of the high electric cost during the winter months. I live in midwest Indiana. The cost of my electric bills in Dec for the past three years has been $600 to $800. In 2014 I had a new 18 seer 2 stage heat pump installed in my house with a new variable speed air handler. I then installed my old forced air electric furnace in the garage to use as the primary heat source. I only keep the garage at 45 deg F unless I am going to work out in it. My question is. Is there another electric hot water heating source I can use for my Hot water floor heating system? I have thought of trying two 50 gallon electric water heaters in series or a wood pellet boiler. I can not install a outside wood boiler or have a propane tank either.
 
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Fixin'Stuff

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Electric resistance heat is electric resistance heat. You have to consume X number of watts to create Y BTU's of heat. :( The only way to create the BTU's of heat with less watts is to use a heat pump. Heat pumps create more BTU's per watt than resistance heaters, but the advantage decreases as outdoor temps drop. At a certain temp, which varies by model, the advantage is gone and the system kicks over to using resistance heating strips (they can also use gas, but you've told us that is not an option). Some companies have heat pumps that claim to be more efficient than resistance heaters to well below zero degrees. Yes, heat pumps cost more to purchase up front, but with your electric bills, cutting the bills by 20-40% will offset the upfront cost fairly quickly.
 

Fixin'Stuff

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Can I use a Electric Heat Pump water heater?

You'll need to research whether or not one of those can actually create enough BTU's per hour to satisfy the heating demand. They have a rather long recovery time. I think they have an option to enable resistance heaters internally for high demand situations, but that puts you right back to high electric bills. :( I'm not aware of a cheap way to heat that much water. I was thinking towards using a forced air heat pump. Natural gas would be a MUCH less expensive way to heat your water loop, but if you can't get nat gas or propane, then you're stuck with a not-so-good situation...
 

theoldwizard1

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Feb 22, 2011
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SE MI
My question is. Is there another electric hot water heating source I can use for my Hot water floor heating system?

YES ! And no !

In other parts of the world (NZ) Mitsubishi sells multi-zone, mini-split heat pumps where one zone is a HEAT EXCHANGER ! These are "off the shelf" heat exchangers, so there is really nothing special about them. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, these systems are not sold in the US (at least last time I looked).

Secondary benefit is that you get A/C and forced air (for quicker recovery from low temps).

They are not cheap, but are MUCH MORE EFFICIENT than electric resistance water heating. No, you can not just use a heat pump water heater. Those assume that the ambient air is above 50-60F all of the time.


I am certain a really good HVAC guy could obtain the parts and build the system for you. Like any heat pump system, having some kind of a backup heat source (diesel torpedo or even a propane tank top) is a good idea.
 

HoosierBuddy

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May 9, 2006
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Southern Indiana
Curious why you can't get propane? It's pretty reasonable right now....likely less than half the cost/btu of your electricity.

If you really can't go with NG or propane...you'd be better off to just go with an air souce heat pump.

Phil
 
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brupska

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Oct 14, 2016
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I really don't have room for a large enough propane tank since I live in a subdivision. I have looked into that. I just can't find a spot with 50' between buildings.
 

Highbeam

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Mt Rainier foothills, WA
You don't need 50 feet between buildings with one or two or three of the upright "pig" propane tanks that can be right against your building. Common solution to the problem that you state.
 
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ZAPPER68

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Feb 14, 2011
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Sand Pit
You don't need 50 feet between buildings with one or two or three of the upright "pig" propane tanks that can be right against your building. Common solution to the problem that you state.

I use propane for floor heat in my garage and the only stipulation is that the tank must be a minimum of 10' from the exhaust duct. I took this requirement into consideration when I built my garage. Your 50' between buildings seems rather 'excessive'.

I have a single 'pig' tank that is up against my garage as per the above post. :)
 

Ed Devinney

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Nov 29, 2006
Messages
68
Daikin sells their Altherma line of air-water heat pumps in the US. We looked at it for our build but it was very expensive as a secondary source for our passive solar floors.
 

79rallysport

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Jul 11, 2005
Messages
254
Location
Binghamton, NY
Take a look at Siesco boilers. They are inverter driven electric resistance tankless boilers specifically designed for space heating. They also make tankless water heaters for domestic hot water.

I have one in my 28'x30'x12' shop, that is well insulated, 4.5" slab that is well insulated. I have 3 runs of 1/2" pex, 280' each. I went with the 9000watt boiler. It was designed to keep the shop at a constant 70*F when its at 4*F outside. As long as there isn't 20mph winds, infiltrating cold air in around my overhead doors, it works great.

One of these boilers would probably integrate with your Nibco panel just fine.

Last winter was fairly cold here in upstate NY and my electric bill wasn't half of what yours was. And I run most of my house appliances off electric too.
 

Crusarius

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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
383
Location
Upstate NY
I don't think its very expensive. this is the breakdown on my latest bill. I am south of rochester NY.

basic surcharge is $17.00 just to have service.

How does that compare to everyone else?
 

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