Electrical panel model for purchasing new breaker?

[Chuckster in NJ]

Some correct and incorrect replies here.
The only thing I will add to this "buffet of answers" is: Call a licensed electrical contractor and you thank me later!

TIP! Whenever I see rust, it’s time for a new meter pan and main panel…….. Invest for the future now.

 

[Codyboy]

Some correct and incorrect replies here.
The only thing I will add to this "buffet of answers" is: Call a licensed electrical contractor and you thank me later!

TIP! Whenever I see rust, it’s time for a new meter pan and main panel…….. Invest for the future now.

For some minor surface rust?

 

[Codyboy]

Is this where you plan to put the 100 amp breaker?
Looks like it feeds off the load side wires (meter load side) before the main breaker, so I guess it would basically be a another main breaker?

Hmm. I guess it would be no different than having a main lug panel ( no main) and having 6 throws or less?
Someone here probably knows.

Still don't see a manufacturer label. Sometimes they're on the back of the cover or under the lid.

 

[Norcal]

Seimans make QD breakers for square D that are UL listed, I’ve used them a number of times.

They are not UL listed, only OEM is listed, they are classified by UL to be used in some SQ D QO panels, Eaton also has a classified breaker for QO.

 

[Norcal]

I wanted 100a for expansion to another building but for now I will be adding a hot tub to the garage panel.
Here are the pictures as promised.

It's a Challenger panel the Zinsco main is a dead giveaway, Eaton BR is the OEM/listed breaker, Siemens, is better but is not classified for that panel.

 

[Norcal]

The form factor of the cb is already figured out.........if a Siemens QP is in there now, another siemens will fit, as will a SQ D Homeline, EatonBR, Challeger, Zinsco, Bryant, Murray, etc.

Need the panel mfr info first to do it correctly.

Zinsco will not interchange with any of the others.

 

[mm08822]

The main cb that is in there is a "QFP" which googles out to Zinsco, Connecticut Electric and Milbank hits.

Sizes available range from 100 to 200a I found.

May want to consider cleaning up the ckts below the existing main as there are 3 loads fed off of 2 cbs.

You have some options.

 

[mm08822]

OP, do you have a pic of the cover (dead front) that you removed? Can you post it?

Any label on the back side of it?

 

[whateg01]

Since op mentioned making this meet code, white wires wired to 2 pole breakers? Also is that a 120 and a 240 circuit on the top breaker?

 

[dutch724]

On the dead front cover there is nothing on it that says anything. Its blank.
Yes, I will clean up the wiring in that box. There is some wires coming off one of legs of the 220v breaker running to some outside outlets on my deck. that circuit will be moved to the subpanel to align with code and safety.
Does anyone know if I can get the proper breakers for that main panel? I imagine if they are available I would have to order them online, which is not an issue.
Looks like I will be replacing that panel later in the future not in my scope of work at this time. unless of course my electrician says it needs to be changed.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Since op mentioned making this meet code, white wires wired to 2 pole breakers? Also is that a 120 and a 240 circuit on the top breaker?

if its a conductor in a manufactured cable, it can be taped black or red or any color other than gray or green.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

On the dead front cover there is nothing on it that says anything. Its blank.
Yes, I will clean up the wiring in that box. There is some wires coming off one of legs of the 220v breaker running to some outside outlets on my deck. that circuit will be moved to the subpanel to align with code and safety.
Does anyone know if I can get the proper breakers for that main panel? I imagine if they are available I would have to order them online, which is not an issue.
Looks like I will be replacing that panel later in the future not in my scope of work at this time. unless of course my electrician says it needs to be changed.

Per Norcal's comment in #45, its a challenger panel and OEM replacement is Eaton BR. So get a BR to replace the siemens, and one for your subpanel feed.

there is an open 2 space bus connection on the right hand side of the main that you could use.

 

[whateg01]

if its a conductor in a manufactured cable, it can be taped black or red or any color other than gray or green.

Those aren't

 

[Codyboy]

Those aren't

Those aren't what? Taped? Manufactured?

Op can tape them up.

 

[whateg01]

Those aren't what? Taped? Manufactured?

Op can tape them up.

And that's what I said to begin it. That needs fixed.

 

[Codyboy]

And that's what I said to begin it. That needs fixed.

I agree , but not taping it is not the end of the world.
If anyone opens a panel and sees a white on a breaker i would think they would say , oh thats a 240 circuit. They're not going to say " ermagerd why is that neutral white wire on the breaker"?
But yes for ready identification it should be taped.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Those aren't

huh? I see NM in the bottom of the panel...

 

[yatg]

there is an open 2 space bus connection on the right hand side of the main that you could use.

That looks to be fed from the meter side, not the main.

Possibility of overloading the feed? 200a main + 100a breaker for new subpanel.

 

[Codyboy]

Is this where you plan to put the 100 amp breaker?
Looks like it feeds off the load side wires (meter load side) before the main breaker, so I guess it would basically be a another main breaker?

Hmm. I guess it would be no different than having a main lug panel ( no main) and having 6 throws or less?
Someone here probably knows.

Still don't see a manufacturer label. Sometimes they're on the back of the cover or under the lid.

That looks to be fed from the meter side, not the main.

Possibility of overloading the feed? 200a main + 100a breaker for new subpanel.

I guess I'm on ignore. Idk.
I said that several posts back and even did a screenshot of OPs Pic. Whatever

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That looks to be fed from the meter side, not the main.

Possibility of overloading the feed? 200a main + 100a breaker for new subpanel.

highly doubt the house pulls 200a. and i highly doubt the shop will pull 100a. remember its not about the breaker ratings, its about the connected load in consecutive use... ive never seen a moderately sized house pull even 100a all at once... its damn near impossible.... same for the shop.... one man? yeah you aint pulling more than what an AC, air compressor, and plasma cutter are pulling at the same time.

 

[mm08822]

That looks to be fed from the meter side, not the main.

Possibility of overloading the feed? 200a main + 100a breaker for new subpanel.

He either does load calc for the imaginary inspector or cleans up the **** hanging below the main cb to make room for the 2p 100A cb.
Those 4 slots are basically wasted....somebody took the easy way out instead of going inside.

 

[mike93lx]

Well ****, would ya look at that... It's not a Seemens

 

[whateg01]

highly doubt the house pulls 200a. and i highly doubt the shop will pull 100a. remember its not about the breaker ratings, its about the connected load in simultaneous use... ive never seen a moderately sized house pull even 100a all at once... its damn near impossible.... same for the shop.... one man? yeah you aint pulling more than what an AC, air compressor, and plasma cutter are pulling at the same time.

 

[dutch724]

there is an open 2 space bus connection on the right hand side of the main that you could use.

Thank you very much for letting me know an Eaton BR. I will be getting those new breakers post hast.

I would like to use those 2 main for the new 100a breaker. Then just replace the 2 breakers with the correct ones. Then that panel will be all sorted. My subpanel for the garage will go next to it.

The mess that looks like it is coming out the bottom is a hole in the brick with 3 or 4 coax cables coming out. I don't use coax in my house so that will be sorted.

The house doesn't pull more than 100a.

He either does load calc for the imaginary inspector or cleans up the **** hanging below the main cb to make room for the 2p 100A cb.
Those 4 slots are basically wasted....somebody took the easy way out instead of going inside.

Yes, this house was done in the easiest and cheapest way possible. I'm hoping to fix a lot of this mess.

 

[PCustoms]

I would like to use those 2 main for the new 100a breaker. Then just replace the 2 breakers with the correct ones. Then that panel will be all sorted. My subpanel for the garage will go next to it.

Where will the garage be?

 

[dutch724]

That question will open up of more comments.
The panel is on the side of the house. The electrical is running under the house and out the back about 85 ft. The total run of electrical is no more than 150ft. I am using 1/0,1/0,1/0, &#2 AL URD for the run. I have up sized it for 125a for expansion later in the future. I don't want to have to dig more than once and if I don't expand then I never have to worry about overloading that cable.

 

[PCustoms]

That question will open up of more comments.
The panel is on the side of the house. The electrical is running under the house and out the back about 85 ft. The total run of electrical is no more than 150ft. I am using 1/0,1/0,1/0, &#2 AL URD for the run. I have up sized it for 125a for expansion later in the future. I don't want to have to dig more than once and if I don't expand then I never have to worry about overloading that cable.

Why are you mounting the sub panel on the house?

That needs to be at the garage...

 

[dutch724]

Why are you mounting the sub panel on the house?

That needs to be at the garage...

Good question, the subpanel is going to have extra breakers in it for outside lights around my deck, above ground pool on that side of the house and a Chicken coop.
Seeing the main panel is out of expansion options, now I have some. Trying to think of everything I'm going to need in the future.

 

[yatg]

highly doubt the house pulls 200a. and i highly doubt the shop will pull 100a. remember its not about the breaker ratings, its about the connected load in consecutive use... ive never seen a moderately sized house pull even 100a all at once... its damn near impossible.... same for the shop.... one man? yeah you aint pulling more than what an AC, air compressor, and plasma cutter are pulling at the same time.

he might if he's running a 3d printer farm

 

[toplessHO]

Lots of breakers fit in lots of panels but aren't rated for it.

Not a sparky, but AFAIK, they are not cross compatible. Could be wrong but it would be the first time ever...

challenger did make compatible breakers.
Have no idea if this is.
installer didnt know the meaning of plumb,level,square
whats the cardboard on top doing?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

challenger did make compatible breakers.
Have no idea if this is.
installer didnt know the meaning of plumb,level,square
whats the cardboard on top doing?

oh really? ive never seen a challenger classified breaker. do you have a reference? what panels are they classified to go in?

 

[sparky 1971]

oh really? ive never seen a challenger classified breaker. do you have a reference? what panels are they classified to go in?

I can only assume without caring that they were classified, but Challenger did make a breaker that fit in Federal Pacific panels. I looked at one that was full of Challenger breakers for a home inspection report, told the seller that even a home inspector can be right once in awhile and this time was it, the FPE panels were junk. (I didn't notice the Challenger branding at that time because, well to be honest, I didn't care). He called me a couple of weeks later to let me know that the problem was going to be solved and asked if I could come over and help him for an hour at most. I got there and he had bought of bunch of Eaton CL breakers that were classified for Challenger panels because the breakers in the panel said Challenger on them. I wound up having to pull a FP breaker out to show him why it wouldn't work. I don't know what ever happened with it, I left after telling him once again, I don't do panel changes in the metro area due to the ridiculous ordinances they have.

 

[Norcal]

I can only assume without caring that they were classified, but Challenger did make a breaker that fit in Federal Pacific panels. I looked at one that was full of Challenger breakers for a home inspection report, told the seller that even a home inspector can be right once in awhile and this time was it, the FPE panels were junk. (I didn't notice the Challenger branding at that time because, well to be honest, I didn't care). He called me a couple of weeks later to let me know that the problem was going to be solved and asked if I could come over and help him for an hour at most. I got there and he had bought of bunch of Eaton CL breakers that were classified for Challenger panels because the breakers in the panel said Challenger on them. I wound up having to pull a FP breaker out to show him why it wouldn't work. I don't know what ever happened with it, I left after telling him once again, I don't do panel changes in the metro area due to the ridiculous ordinances they have.

Went to a auction preview & and one lot was a pallet of Challenger branded FPE Stablok panels, worthless IMO.

 

[Norcal]

I can only assume without caring that they were classified, but Challenger did make a breaker that fit in Federal Pacific panels. I looked at one that was full of Challenger breakers for a home inspection report, told the seller that even a home inspector can be right once in awhile and this time was it, the FPE panels were junk. (I didn't notice the Challenger branding at that time because, well to be honest, I didn't care). He called me a couple of weeks later to let me know that the problem was going to be solved and asked if I could come over and help him for an hour at most. I got there and he had bought of bunch of Eaton CL breakers that were classified for Challenger panels because the breakers in the panel said Challenger on them. I wound up having to pull a FP breaker out to show him why it wouldn't work. I don't know what ever happened with it, I left after telling him once again, I don't do panel changes in the metro area due to the ridiculous ordinances they have.

Challenger bought FPE.

 

[sparky 1971]

That was way before my time.

 

[75gmck25]

Why is there so much resistance to just buying something like the panel below and replacing the old one. Searching for breakers that fit the old box and trying to figure out which one is correct for an old panel seems frustrating, and may not really be much cheaper.

This small 8 space 200 amp panel (I would prefer something with more breaker spaces) allows for the old circuits, with slots left for a new double breaker to feed the sub panel. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...ug-and-Cover-QO1816M200FTRB/202353310#overlay

 

[mm08822]

Why is there so much resistance to just buying something like the panel below and replacing the old one. Searching for breakers that fit the old box and trying to figure out which one is correct for an old panel seems frustrating, and may not really be much cheaper.

This small 8 space 200 amp panel (I would prefer something with more breaker spaces) allows for the old circuits, with slots left for a new double breaker to feed the sub panel. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...ug-and-Cover-QO1816M200FTRB/202353310#overlay

OP has a meter main. Your link is only a panel w/main.

Permits, new POCO requirements, new code requirements, more $$$, inspections, cut-out/cut-in.......vs.............just slap-in sometin dat fits.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Why is there so much resistance to just buying something like the panel below and replacing the old one. Searching for breakers that fit the old box and trying to figure out which one is correct for an old panel seems frustrating, and may not really be much cheaper.

This small 8 space 200 amp panel (I would prefer something with more breaker spaces) allows for the old circuits, with slots left for a new double breaker to feed the sub panel. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...ug-and-Cover-QO1816M200FTRB/202353310#overlay

that panel wont work. but as said above, the cost to change a meter main will far outweigh replacement breakers...

 

[75gmck25]

I did not look at the pictures closely, and have not dealt with a meter main panel before, so maybe I'm just being overly simplistic. However, the initial post did not ask to do everything on the cheap, or to rule out hiring an electrician. Paying money to have it done right is not really a bad solution.

In my area the POCO will give me the new meter and I can pay an electrician to connect it to a new panel that I purchase, and from there I can do everything else to install the breakers. Or I could buy a new meter main panel for about $300 and have the electrician make a direct replacement of the old one. In both cases I will end up paying an electrician and getting permits, but I think it would run in the range of about $1000 for the labor if its only a meter and panel swap. However, when the electrician gets done I would have a modern panel, and easy-to-purchase breakers for any new work. YMMV

 

[Bert_]

Why is there so much resistance to just buying something like the panel below and replacing the old one. Searching for breakers that fit the old box and trying to figure out which one is correct for an old panel seems frustrating, and may not really be much cheaper.

This small 8 space 200 amp panel (I would prefer something with more breaker spaces) allows for the old circuits, with slots left for a new double breaker to feed the sub panel. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...ug-and-Cover-QO1816M200FTRB/202353310#overlay

Sure, why buy a $100 breaker when you can spend $2000 and change the whole thing!