To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Electrical Supplies Cost a LOT!

bczygan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,002
Location
DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
Just bought a 50' roll of 10-2. $50!!!

Cheap switches and outlets aren't that much, but all the bits and pieces add up.

And 30 amp locking plugs and receptacles....Wow!

Throw in panels and such, and it all adds up!


Are we at a low or a high point in the cost of wire?

And are the big box stores the best prices for homeowner quantities (250')?
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

slodat

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3,682
Location
Central-ish, WA
I buy name brand high quality receptacles, twist locks and other small bits on eBay from surplus sellers for a small fraction of retail... I buy small lots and get several for less than price of one at a box store
 
Last edited:

ABSTIFFGS

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
304
Location
Twin Cities, MN
I buy name brand high quality receptacles, twist locks and other small bits on eBay from surplus sellers for a small fraction of retail... I buy small lots and get soared for less than price of one at a box store

Thanks for that tip! I just did a random search for 20 amp grey commercial grade receptacles. 30 pack for $40 or a 100 pack for $109. I will definitely going this route for future.
 

slodat

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3,682
Location
Central-ish, WA
I avoid the import stuff in favor of high quality brand names. I don't think I've paid much more than about $5-8/ea in quantity. I buy lots of 5-10 on most stuff. I bought a box of new P&S 6-20P for $75 for example.
 

Norcal

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
13,796
A roll of wire under 250' is going cost a lot, they just don't use Vaseline when they stick it to you, for 250' 12/2, 14/2 & such big box stores are the low price leaders, other wire one needs to look around.
 

Slowgsr

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2014
Messages
610
Location
Southern ontario
Right now 14/2 ac90 150m coils
In 10 years the lowest is about 1$ per meter.
Right now we're around 1.17/m
Highest I've seem was 2.15/m

Meters in Canadian funds.
 

zmaxmotorsports

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
11,948
Location
South of omaha
Copper prices are circling the drain lately,I bought a truckload of 3/4" M copper from menards a couple of weeks ago for $13.00 a stick.
It was 20plus not too long ago.
They were a little shocked when I rolled up to the counter with a lumber cart and 100 sticks/1000' of it,but they didn't have ant limits posted.:dunno::lol:
 

ABSTIFFGS

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
304
Location
Twin Cities, MN
Copper prices are circling the drain lately,I bought a truckload of 3/4" M copper from menards a couple of weeks ago for $13.00 a stick.
It was 20plus not too long ago.
They were a little shocked when I rolled up to the counter with a lumber cart and 100 sticks/1000' of it,but they didn't have ant limits posted.:dunno::lol:

Lol good buy. I have noticed copper tubing is coming down significantly.
 
OP
B

bczygan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,002
Location
DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
Copper prices are circling the drain lately,I bought a truckload of 3/4" M copper from menards a couple of weeks ago for $13.00 a stick.
It was 20plus not too long ago.
They were a little shocked when I rolled up to the counter with a lumber cart and 100 sticks/1000' of it,but they didn't have ant limits posted.:dunno::lol:

Did you get the 11% rebate too?

Sounds like time to get the copper line for the air compressor as well!
 

zmaxmotorsports

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
11,948
Location
South of omaha
Did you get the 11% rebate too?

Sounds like time to get the copper line for the air compressor as well!

I wish!They haven't had any rebates around here since like 5-23.:lol:
If youre going to run air lines id use the L copper instead of the M,Ill be at menards again this afternoon.
Ill check the L copper prices while Im there.
 
OP
B

bczygan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,002
Location
DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers

reader2580

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
14,671
Location
Minneapolis, MN
I buy name brand high quality receptacles, twist locks and other small bits on eBay from surplus sellers for a small fraction of retail... I buy small lots and get several for less than price of one at a box store

What do you search for on Ebay to find deals on electrical stuff? If I just searched for receptacle I would be looking for half a day to find the best deal due to the sheer volume of listings.

I like the Leviton switches and receptacles from Home Depot. The Leviton stuff is actually made in the USA. I buy a grade or two up from cheap builder's grade stuff. The builder's grade receptacles don't meet current NEC as they are not tamper resistant. I will be redoing my garage wiring soon, but I will probably just go to HD as I only need a few of each switch and receptacle.
 

slodat

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3,682
Location
Central-ish, WA
I usually find a part number from a good manufacturer or NEMA numbers and go from there. I don't buy the standard 125v 15a receptacles on eBay. I do buy the higher quality example from the box store over the cheap junky ones. I don't use TR because my shop is not a residence, it's a commercial building. Now I'm wondering if I need to on new stuff.. Hmm. Code gurus?
 

reader2580

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
14,671
Location
Minneapolis, MN
No idea on TR for commercial. Commercial is a whole different ball game. I don't know if residential garages actually require TR or not under 2014 NEC.. I do know you have to have GFCI if there is bare concrete.

For residential a lot of folks don't care too much about NEC if they aren't getting a permit. I still think TR is not a bad idea even if not getting the work inspected.

I rewired a good chunk of my house last fall and I had to have a electrical permit due to rehab mortgage I took out. Minnesota adopted the 2014 NEC as of July 1, 2014 so I had do arc fault breakers and TR outlets to pass inspection.
 

Mustang51js

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
1,734
Location
Haskell nj
I believe the new code doesn't require tr in garages,just have to see what year code your state is using and if there's any new adoptions.
 

alfredeneuman

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
4,596
Location
Fullerton, CA
The Leviton stuff is actually made in the USA. I buy a grade or two up from cheap builder's grade stuff.

Good thing you buy a grade or 2 up ;)

Not all Leviton Devices are made in the USA.
Only the Commercial and Industrial grades are made in the US.

The rest come from China :(
 
Last edited:
OP
B

bczygan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,002
Location
DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
Copper prices are circling the drain lately,I bought a truckload of 3/4" M copper from menards a couple of weeks ago for $13.00 a stick.
It was 20plus not too long ago.
They were a little shocked when I rolled up to the counter with a lumber cart and 100 sticks/1000' of it,but they didn't have ant limits posted.:dunno::lol:

That same stick is $14.50 at Lowes and I can use $10 off $50 to make it $12.

I've been reading and there seem to be a number of options. Cooling between the head and tank. Cooling after the tank. Dryers.

What are good choices?

Bill
 

reader2580

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
14,671
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Good thing you buy a grade or 2 up ;)

Not all Leviton Devices are made in the USA.
Only the Commercial and Industrial grades are made in the US.

The stuff I bought said very specifically that it is made in the USA. I was quite surprised as I thought Leviton made most everything in other countries. I am pretty sure it was still residential grade, not commercial.
 

alfredeneuman

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
4,596
Location
Fullerton, CA
Last edited:

Norcal

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
13,796
It used to be that the elcheapo jobs got Zinsco/Sylvania panels & Leviton wiring devices.:D

To this day because of that I have a hard time using Leviton, even though a lot of their stuff is decent, I still go out of my way to avoid Leviton and Cooper (former Eagle) wall plates, they are a hallmark of cheap trailer & apartment jobs.


My favorite plates are out of production, P&S Sierra, which done after P&S added Slater to their offerings.
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

reader2580

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
14,671
Location
Minneapolis, MN
What I got for switches is this one from Leviton: http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=RS115-2&section=41455 This one is not shown in white, but it is sold in white from Home Depot. It says residential grade and also shows Made in the USA.

Personally, I like the Leviton thermoplastic plates. I can't stand the nylon plates sold elsewhere. Quite often nylon plates get screwed down too tight and they look horrible.
 

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
I use the 50 cent ones, I cant remember the last time I had one fail and some of the ones on my benches have 1000's, maybe even 10's of thousands of cycles on them, way more than any residence or hobby garage would ever see
 

bjcouche

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
509
Location
Ohio
I put my detatched garage in 2.5 years ago and Ohio code (permitted) required GFCI protected and tamper resistant outlets, at least until the inspector passed it. For any of the outlets that I use often, I replaced the cheap TR outlets with industrial quality outlets that are much less a fire risk due to bad connections. They are easier to get a plug into as well because they aren't tamper resistant requiring you to wiggle and shove hard to get past those shutters....

I wasn't required to use AFCI breakers because it was a garage.
As far as child proof (tamper resistant) outlets in my garage / shop.. I can't leave children unsupervised in there anyway, too many power tools, table saws, chisels, and other sharp objects that are more likely to injure a child.
 

Charles (in GA)

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
12,489
Location
50 mi south of Atlanta
Ebay, Fruitridge Tools, and the Flea market make up most of my electrical supplies. Do searches for receptacles by NEMA number, plug, connector, etc. The people selling this stuff seem to do a good job of describing it accurately. I guess they realize it won't show in a search if they don't. Thus, you gotta know what its called, not just a receptacle or a thing-a-ma-bob.

Receptacle
Plug
Connector (the female end of a cord)
flanged inlet
Pin and sleeve

anyhow, do your homework, you can find some good deals.

Charles
 

Charles (in GA)

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
12,489
Location
50 mi south of Atlanta
I use the 50 cent ones, I cant remember the last time I had one fail and some of the ones on my benches have 1000's, maybe even 10's of thousands of cycles on them, way more than any residence or hobby garage would ever see

attachment.php


50 cent or dollar one on the left, three or four dollar one on the right. Cheap **** don't hold up. Plug and unplug a few times and the fingers in the receptacle get worn and sprung and the plug just falls out. Ground pin is the only thing holding the plug in (if the plug has one)

I have a bunch of real good spec grade backwired Hubbell put away. Guy at the flea market had boxes of 10. I think he bought them from Grainger on a surplus sale. I gave a buck each for them ($10 a box)

attachment.php


Got some 20 amp w/T slot, some 15 amp, basically the same receptacle with a different face plate.

House I'm in was built in '84. The owner did most of the finish themselves (log home "kit") and all of the receptacles were totally worn out. Plug in the vacuum cleaner and the plug would fall right out. I went and changed out the receptacles ('98-'99 time frame), put in Leviton back wire spec grade. The ones I removed had price stickers from Home Depot (real old stickers, before packaging and bar coding) or Wallgreens, or where ever they happened to stop on the way home that day. 39 cents, 49 cent ones were the expensive ones. All ****.

Charles
 
Last edited:

zmaxmotorsports

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
11,948
Location
South of omaha
Most failures Ive seen over the years in outlets were caused by people pulling cords out sideways,its got nothing to do with the design of the outlet usually.
As far as back stabbing cheap outlets we haven't been able to do that around here legally for 20 plus years,If the installer is too lazy to use the screws on the side of the outlet that's on them in my book.
If we are going to start pushing for people to start using spec grade outlets and switches how about commercial grade light fixtures instead of the cheap box store stuff?
How about plumbing? lets start using c.i and dwv copper for everything,and
17g p traps.................
Theyre a lot stronger than the thin walled pvc stuff you buy at the box stores.:dunno:
 

Norcal

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
13,796
Most failures Ive seen over the years in outlets were caused by people pulling cords out sideways,its got nothing to do with the design of the outlet usually.
As far as back stabbing cheap outlets we haven't been able to do that around here legally for 20 plus years,If the installer is too lazy to use the screws on the side of the outlet that's on them in my book.
If we are going to start pushing for people to start using spec grade outlets and switches how about commercial grade light fixtures instead of the cheap box store stuff?
How about plumbing? lets start using c.i and dwv copper for everything,and
17g p traps
.................
Theyre a lot stronger than the thin walled pvc stuff you buy at the box stores.:dunno:

A PVC or ABS trap is better then a 20 gauge brass P trap. :lol_hitti
 

logixjock

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
636
Location
Sturgeon, MO
I use the 50 cent ones, I cant remember the last time I had one fail and some of the ones on my benches have 1000's, maybe even 10's of thousands of cycles on them, way more than any residence or hobby garage would ever see

You sir, are the king of using junk **** and getting by/making do. More power to you. I would just burn the shithole down before I used harbor freight tools to wire up 98 cent switches in my house. Have you no pride at all?
 

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
You sir, are the king of using junk **** and getting by/making do. More power to you. I would just burn the shithole down before I used harbor freight tools to wire up 98 cent switches in my house. Have you no pride at all?
Just out of curiosity, how many recepticals do you own? How many actually get real use?
I wonder how many vacuum cleaners it tool to wear out a recept? I have used better ones, found out that there wasn't all that much difference, really thought I was something while I was learning and special, some things were not good enough for my stuff cause,,, well, I am special like that, I use more, better, harder and know more about it than most people do.
 

MushCreek

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Messages
10,030
Location
Upstate South Carolina
I just wired up our new house, and bought most of my switches and receptacles on-line. The big box stores are crazy expensive on the newer required stuff like TR GFIC. They do have the best prices on romex- I used over half a mile of it in the house.

I don't use cheap switches and outlets. I've found that in humid conditions such as unconditioned garages and barns, the cheap stuff seems to corrode and lose contact. Replace it with a quality fixture, and that problem goes away. Our old house in FL was all cheap backstab ****, and the lights would flicker and you could hear sizzling and popping in the boxes. That doesn't seem like a good thing.
 

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
I would just burn the shithole down before I used harbor freight tools to wire up 98 cent switches in my house
So, let me get this straight,, you live in a **** hole but worry about HF tools and cheap plugs? But you would burn it down before you fix it?
Like I said, every high school really needs a logic class.
 

dogdog

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 15, 2011
Messages
12,711
Dunno I find commercial grade stuff are little more beefier and little more easier to hook up... both works fine if it is done properly, dependents on the budgets I get and the place it is put. I have combination of both kind of tools in my toolbox Klein or HF, I rarely refuse to just finish the job because I have a unknown brand or HF brand screwdriver at hand, it accomplish the task. My pride is my work, not the tools I own. But then again Ignorance is not a bliss..
 

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
Here is what I found tends to be true and these are the nature of things I focus on with forums. I really look back, for lack of some skills I am a great estimator. I don't have the ability to make complicated calculations but most of the worlds stuff is designed ahead of us and they already put a pencil to it so if it twists off I replace with 1 size larger.
I found out everything doesn't need and isn't always as strong as it can be. I get that quite a bit.
Since I can barely add I copy, when I started at 18 I built heavy, some a real waste and in multiples, I copied what I saw, materials were a bit different. Today I can land right near the edge, most of it I come out a gage heaver or so than someone with a sharp pencil, with one off fabrication and maintenance its easier, strengthens connections to have a little overkill. 1 extra bolt, lengthen a weld a bit and make it way more effective.
Now this brings us back to the receptical. When I was 20 I worried pitifully about such things, went out of my way and while I did that I miss some really important ideas that take me a long time to learn,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, that's the point. I even did a lot of stuff right and didn't have a clue why but I missed some here and there too that so far havnt been fatal and I even reach back in a couple places I worked on over the years and fix a screw or 2.
In comparison it hasn't been that bad and I get to see others along the way, some legit, some handyman types. The issues are different but they are still slobs in the sense they wont put a cover on etc, don't use a clamp.
It isn't they used a cheap outlet, I am sure somewhere it has been a problem but is really miniscule compared to the human factor. Even among the best there is error, its less but **** happens.
Now I demo some stuff I wired 35 yrs ago when I fussed over the outlets, I remember that, the brand and model doesn't just jump out at me and I have actually tossed some. I own some of it a long time. My work bench has been a fairly busy place and we put in some cheap outlets with the idea we would simply replace them,,, well, aint had one that hasn't worked perfect.
Its what we found out about the Walmart grinder and some other pieces. The shocking reality is that the HF screwdriver has replaced the Klein, there is a place for it but its not demanded for a wall outlet replacement and since I operate screwdrivers multiple times on most days really prefer a collection vs a set.
Low cost is an asset. Didn't cost me but 50$ to replace every switch and outlet in a common house recently, took a lot of the pain and decision out of it. Got rid of boxes too small, the cost of the materials became a minor factor. Left 10 ft of old wire in the whole place.
I could have left obsolete wire in a rental, could have left it alone but I am a service upgrade junky as well as wire replacer from hell. The assessment of quality work by the semi professional,,, or extreme professional is often skewed.
 

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
I used to believe I could out think it all but it took a long time for a lot of this to come to perspective. My master plumma bud still uses the 1/2 air pipe, has simply extended a circuit as needed. First long air feed I put in was inch, now I know 1/2 would have been more than sufficient for the task at hand, today I know when an up size is relevant, its usually not relevant to hand washing but to tank fill which most people really don't do.
I get to toss 10 old recepts some hack hooked to wire was obsolete at the time with obsolete method for 5$.
Same for the grinder. So far it has outlasts a good one at 1/3 retail, don't got to rebuild it. All brand new again, new cord, new plug.
A couple guys from the forum been here, the place isn't full of **** cords and hoses.
Most car accidents are operator error, its not failed equipment. Even with pitiful backstabs the fire man usually finds a 3 way and electric heater.
In my own case stuff with any real load gets a circuit. 95% of the outlets don't have any and it doesn't matter as there isn't anything plugged in. Only matters if you are using it,,, a concept really more difficult to comprehend than one gives it credit for.
 

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
Hard for a lot of people to grasp they are not continually applying 20A to a circuit. Same Todays world has only milliamps on a lot of circuits. Can light a whole house with a couple amps, 14 wire makes more sense than ever.
Plumbing fixtures are low flow, first thing the amateur wants to do is fuss over it and increase the pipe size. Professional would take the restriction out of the faucet before replacing pipe. He might also consider the effect on the rest of the system pressure when the valve is opened.
The forums often tend to magnify rather small faults and ignore the reality. People worry about the .6 pressure drop in the main but use a long hose where they worry about the connector where there is another .5 while the incoming is out of air, 10# too low to start with and loses 10 down extra hose.
 

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
I got a chance to meet the new electric guy recently. It was an upgrade to one of my own properties so since I was actually the homeowner I took advantage. The lineman told me he was a straight shooter.
He was cordial and I led him and all is typical till we get to the panel, its warm and we got lights but he looks and out comes the Klein screwdriver I know he has with a fat handle and he leans on main breaker torque as well as neutral lug.
I left a box of connectors, box of staples and a couple gfci sitting there and the old Federal panel. He asked this hack a question about where 2 ground wires went and did follow it to the city water.
I imagine he has seen it all but as he was filling out the green sticker said,,,, It appears you have done this before. I thanked him for his service, he seemed surprised and I said, I am a fan of good inspections. It gets rid of a lot of junk.
I do regret that I didn't toss in my 2 cents that I learned it on the internet.
 

sberry

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
DIY talk forum with thanks to Warren Goodrich who is a partner in Selfhelp, guy named John Nelson at the time was pecking on the forum and Bob Keis who is the real deal must have pulled his hair out, I finally bought the book and he had wrote a couple paragraphs I could understand at the time.
I asked some specifics as I did jobs along the way like here. The result so far is I have an understanding like the average journeyman should have in the areas that pertain to the application relevant to me.
 

zmaxmotorsports

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
11,948
Location
South of omaha
Hard for a lot of people to grasp they are not continually applying 20A to a circuit. Same Todays world has only milliamps on a lot of circuits. Can light a whole house with a couple amps, 14 wire makes more sense than ever.
Plumbing fixtures are low flow, first thing the amateur wants to do is fuss over it and increase the pipe size. Professional would take the restriction out of the faucet before replacing pipe. He might also consider the effect on the rest of the system pressure when the valve is opened.
The forums often tend to magnify rather small faults and ignore the reality. People worry about the .6 pressure drop in the main but use a long hose where they worry about the connector where there is another .5 while the incoming is out of air, 10# too low to start with and loses 10 down extra hose.

If most people ever hung an amp probe/clamp on the service coming into there panel and saw how little theyre actually drawing even with their 2 furnaces/ac's ........... theyd be really disappointed.:spit:
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom