EMT versus Flex versus grey conduit

[The Motts]

Thanks. Any idea if Lowes of HD sells this tool? I can not find it on their website.

Home Depot sells the Klein version of that tool:

http://www.homedepot.com/Klein-Tools/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ3xg/R-100662396/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

 

[green.bubbly]

Home Depot sells the Klein version of that tool:

http://www.homedepot.com/Klein-Tools/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ3xg/R-100662396/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Thank you.

 

[green.bubbly]

Is there any special trick or method of installing the anti-short bushings other than just pushing them into the conduit? They do not seem to stay in place very well. I would think there would be a better system. Would it be over kill or against code to put a couple of wraps of electrical tape around the end of the cable to better secure the bushing?

 

[harvero]

With the cable secured in the bx connector the bushing will not be able to go anywhere.

 

[green.bubbly]

With the cable secured in the bx connector the bushing will not be able to go anywhere.

Ok, that may be what I was doing wrong. I may have been pushing the cable too far through the connector. So the clamp on the connector should clamp down on the bushing as well.


Thanks

 

[Thruxton]

Ok, that may be what I was doing wrong. I may have been pushing the cable too far through the connector. So the clamp on the connector should clamp down on the bushing as well.


Thanks

I may be misunderstanding, but if you can push the cable through the bushing it's the wrong kind of bushing.

 

[green.bubbly]

I may be misunderstanding, but if you can push the cable through the bushing it's the wrong kind of bushing.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Are you using the correct type of connector? You do not use a standard romex clamp, but rather one that looks exactly like it, but has a shoulder inside it to stop the metal housing and the bushing sits against it.

Charles

 

[green.bubbly]

Are you using the correct type of connector? You do not use a standard romex clamp, but rather one that looks exactly like it, but has a shoulder inside it to stop the metal housing and the bushing sits against it.

Charles

Lol. After a quick trip to Home Depot, I am now using the correct connector. These work much better.

Thanks Charles for catching my error. Much appreciated.

 

[green.bubbly]

Ok, with the help and advice of several members, I am almost finished wiring my garage. Thanks again to Charles for figuring out my issue with the anti-shorts. I was indeed using Romex connectors instead of the flex cable connectors.

I have two separate receptacle circuits splitting the building in half. I ran the lines to the four ceiling lights and the garage door motor receptacle. I also ran the line for the interior AC unit (mini-split) and I will run the conduit for a future circuit for the outdoor lights for the carport that will one attach to my garage.

Still debating if I should run a 220 circuit somewhere in the building. I do not have any 220 tools but you never now.


Some here are my next two questions...

1. What is the code for clamping the metal flex conduit? Does it have to be fastened with in some many inches of the electrical box and does it have to be clamped or supported every x number of feet?

2. I have a mini-split AC unit coming in next week. On the outside unit, I will have the disconnect box attached to the back of the garage wall and connecting to the AC unit with a liquid tight whip. How do I run the metal flex though the steel siding wall and connect it to the disconnect box mounted on the outside of the building. Can I just drill a hole though the steel and feed the flex conduit into the backside of the disconnect box or is there some sort of fancy through the wall piece to go from metal flex to something watertight as it exits the wall? Hope that made sense.

 

[CADPoint]

.... I was planning on having four receptacle circuits, one for each wall with about 7 receptacles on each circuit. I have plenty of 14-2 and 12-2 wire already purchased. Any other thoughts or concerns would be greatly appreciated.

A garage should only be on 12-2 w/G and GFCI protected! If previously stated, I'm just reinforcing!

 

[green.bubbly]

A garage should only be on 12-2 w/G and GFCI protected! If previously stated, I'm just reinforcing!

Yeah, I purchased some 12-2 flex cable and used that to wire the entire garage. I will be installing GFCI receptacles at the beginning of each both circuits.

 

[Aceman]

Just to clear things up, call it MC cable, not flex. Flex is a whole other product, basically the same as MC cable but without the wires preinstalled in it from the factory.

1. What is the code for clamping the metal flex conduit? Does it have to be fastened with in some many inches of the electrical box and does it have to be clamped or supported every x number of feet?

Straps within 12" of every box, and then every 6' after that at a minimum.

2. I have a mini-split AC unit coming in next week. On the outside unit, I will have the disconnect box attached to the back of the garage wall and connecting to the AC unit with a liquid tight whip. How do I run the metal flex though the steel siding wall and connect it to the disconnect box mounted on the outside of the building. Can I just drill a hole though the steel and feed the flex conduit into the backside of the disconnect box or is there some sort of fancy through the wall piece to go from metal flex to something watertight as it exits the wall? Hope that made sense.

Just pop it into the back like normal. Caulk above the disconnect if you want to, that'll help keep the rain from running down the back and into the hole in your siding.

 

[green.bubbly]

Just to clear things up, call it MC cable, not flex. Flex is a whole other product, basically the same as MC cable but without the wires preinstalled in it from the factory.



Straps within 12" of every box, and then every 6' after that at a minimum.



Just pop it into the back like normal. Caulk above the disconnect if you want to, that'll help keep the rain from running down the back and into the hole in your siding.

Thanks for the clarification on the cable name and for the other information.

 

[green.bubbly]

Alright, I have to learn to ask questions BEFORE I start. I did not leave enough lack in the MC cable to fasten it 12" from the box. So I spent three hours after work fixing my mistake.


Before asking questions...



.

.
After asking questions. I ran out of clamps but I now have enough slack to secure the cable 12" from each box as well as in the middle of each run.

How is my subpanel looking? Any issues?

 

[Norcal]

Why so stingyw/ a panel? IMO, a new installation w/ twin breakers (Goverment Electric THQP) is starting out on the wrong foot plus the grounded (neutral) & the grounding conductors are on the same bar which is a no-no, unless it is service equipment.

Those handy/gem boxes need to be ripped out & thrown away. If anyone gets the urge to use that junk, 1st lay both hands on a anvil & then have someone hit each finger w/ a 20 lb sledge 10 times, if after that is done & still want to use em, then go for it, a better choice is a 4 square box & a plaster ring 1/8" deeper then the finished wall surface, 5/8" for 1/2", 3/4" for 5/8" & so on.

BTW, the reason I have such strong opinions about those Handy/ Gem boxes is it is trying to stuff 10 lbs of **** in a 5 lb bag, & if there is any fitting in the ends & any wiring device is installed the mounting screws have to be cut because they are too long. A box w/ generous wiring space makes for a better job.

 

[green.bubbly]

I was not a fan of those little boxes either but that was all HD had in quantity I needed other than the large square boxes. There will only be two sets of wires in each box so it should not be too bad to stuff the wires in.


Back to the subpanel. I will have the four conductors running form my main breaker panel so I will have to install a neutral bar as well. I have not opened a panel in years and I was going off a 3 conductor setup. Thanks for that information.


Other than no neutral bus, what other issues do you have with the box? It would really not be hard to upgrade it at this point if need be.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

In the breaker panel, there is a green screw to the left, and a hole above it. This is where the ground bar is screwed directly to the panel (you have to buy it at extra cost). Make sure the insulated bar on the right is not connected to the panel box in any way (screw that runs all the way thru possibly) and that is your neutral bar.

I will not use anything less than a 4x4 box and I prefer the deep ones for anything beyond one device or a couple of wires. It just isn't worth the effort to fight with the small boxes. (I am going to admit to having used handy boxes with brackets welded to them, and screwed them to the legs of my workbenches, but they are a duplex receptacle and hot/neutral/grd (single cable) in and that is all, and it was about not worth the effort even then)

Lets see two wires in, two out, thats four wires, plus one ground (all grounds count as one) and then the device, you might be exceeding the fill of those boxes anyhow.

MC or BX doesn't lend itself to a good looking installation at all, and I've never cared for it for that reason. I've used it but for specialized runs or run where it was the best for the job.

Never seen a metal building with so many wall girts, thats about crazy.

Charles

 

[Aceman]

I was not a fan of those little boxes either but that was all HD had in quantity I needed other than the large square boxes. There will only be two sets of wires in each box so it should not be too bad to stuff the wires in.

I will be installing GFCI receptacles at the beginning of each both circuits.

Since your so confident there will be room, why don't you try wiring up a GFCI and stuffing it in the first box just to see how it fits...

If you think that goes in easy, then the regular receps in all the rest of the boxes should be even easier.

I completely agree with Norcal.

 

[green.bubbly]

Alright, I will get some dang 4x4 boxes and make you guys happy.


Thanks again for all the suggestions, help and guidance.

 

[Falcon67]

Dem boys is right - handy box + GFCI = why the hell did I do that. You'll be happier with the 4" - less stress LOL.

 

[green.bubbly]

I am afraid my questions are about to get stupider.

I went to HD to get some 4x4 boxes. All I see there that can be nailed to a wood stud are flush mounting boxes as in they will not protrude out past the studs. So I found some 3/4" "rings" that will extend the box out flush with my interior plywood wall sheathing.

But what do I use as a receptacle cover to cover the edges of the hole I cut?

Or am I just shopping at the wrong place?

 

[mrb]

youre likely looking at the wrong parts. Use the 4" square boxes that have a screw in each of two corners. Then get either single or double gang 'mud rings' depending on what you are putting in the box. These come in different lengths, shoot for 1/8" less than your finished wall thickness as you dont want the mud ring protruding past your finished wall surface. You mount your devices in the mud rings (AFTER your sheathing is up) and use normal covers (recommend stainless or nylon unbreakable) You dont cut the hole to the size of the box, you cut to fit the protrusion of the mud ring.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Don't try to make us happy, its you that has to be happy in the end. Mount the four inch box, the one with screws in diagonal opposite corners, attach your wires and then install the mud rings you will be using, either single device or two devices, then, after the sheetrock is installed, during the mudding, you mud around the rings, basically covering them up except for the opening for the device(s). This way, when you install a regular cover plate, you won't see the mud ring, it will be mudded over and painted over.

I didn't realize what your concern was till I went to the shop to set up some extra boxes, mud rings, etc for pics, then I realized your concern about seeing the mud ring. You won't because the sheetrock will lay over it and the mud will seal it up.

Charles

 

[Aceman]

I am afraid my questions are about to get stupider.

I went to HD to get some 4x4 boxes. All I see there that can be nailed to a wood stud are flush mounting boxes as in they will not protrude out past the studs. So I found some 3/4" "rings" that will extend the box out flush with my interior plywood wall sheathing.

But what do I use as a receptacle cover to cover the edges of the hole I cut?

Or am I just shopping at the wrong place?

Here's a pic of a 2 gang ring, there is also a pic of a single gang ring below it:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/RACO-Double-Gang-Box-Plaster-Ring-3KF39

These come in different lengths, shoot for 1/8" less than your finished wall thickness as you dont want the mud ring protruding past your finished wall surface.

I always shoot for flush. I don't want devices sunk back in their covers. I always order mud rings an 1/8" thicker than the thickness of the wall sheathing.

 

[green.bubbly]

Mudding around the mud ring makes sense. Problem that I am using plywood for the interior walls. I am heading to Lowes to see what they have...

 

[mrb]

if you dont screw up cutting the hole for the mud ring, the cover plate for the device will cover the gap between the mudring and the plywood.

 

[green.bubbly]

Don't try to make us happy, its you that has to be happy in the end.

I appreciate that statement but listening to the advice being given is what will probably make me happy in the end. Because I know that I would not have been happy sweating like a pig in that hot garage trying to stuff that GFCI receptacle in that tiny box I was using.

 

[Motofixxer]

I appreciate that statement but listening to the advice being given is what will probably make me happy in the end. Because I know that I would not have been happy sweating like a pig in that hot garage trying to stuff that GFCI receptacle in that tiny box I was using.

Yep...I made that mistake...it *****!

 

[green.bubbly]

Well, after spending some time at Lowes, I was unable to find what I thought would work with the plywood. I picked up a couple of these and I will see how the GFCI fits in it. It is a lot deeper than the original box I used. Hopefully it will work without too much hassle.

 

[green.bubbly]

Oh, and I got one of these as well.

 

[mrb]

lowes didnt have 4S boxes and mud rings????

 

[green.bubbly]

lowes didnt have 4S boxes and mud rings????

Yes they did but I am not using sheet rock to mud up around the ring.

 

[mrb]

Yes they did but I am not using sheet rock to mud up around the ring.

you just cut a hole in the plywood for the protruding portion of the mud ring to stick through. The outlet covers are wider than that part of the mud ring and will cover the gap if you arent sloppy with your hole.

 

[RivennHewn]

Skip the flex, go PVC behind walls, and EMT if it will remain exposed.
Have fun.

 

[RivennHewn]

GFCI outlets fit better in a 2x box with a single mudring.

 

[Aceman]

Green bubbly, you are making this way harder than it should be. Everyone on here is telling you to use 4 sq boxes with mud rings for a reason. Because HANDY BOXES ****!

Honestly, I really don't care what you use, because I know I won't be the one using a hammer to make the GFI fit into the box!!

But, if you'd stop to listen and take some advice from the guys that have been there and done that, you'd save yourself a ton of time and aggravation.

I can't understand why you think you can cut a plywood hole out around a handybox but not a mud ring?

 

[Norcal]

Well, after spending some time at Lowes, I was unable to find what I thought would work with the plywood. I picked up a couple of these and I will see how the GFCI fits in it. It is a lot deeper than the original box I used. Hopefully it will work without too much hassle.

Your just putting in the same s**t as you had before, IMO you need to call a qualified electrical contractor to do the job.

 

[green.bubbly]

Listen guys, if there is one thing I do, that is to listen and appreciate the advice being given. I am not trying to thumb my nose at everyone here. My issue is that I did not see how I will be able to accurately measure and cut the hole in the plywood to go around the mud ring.

Maybe I am still missing something here. Is this type of plate you all are suggesting I use over the mud ring? This will not work as it will not cover the gaps of my cuts.

***Edit***

So, it just hit me. I can use the mud ring and then use a decorative cover plate. Something like this...

 

[mrb]

you use a mud ring like this http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GASHOK/?tag=atomicindus08-20 then a normal cover plate. doesnt have to be some wierd antique brass one. Just a regular cover plate. If you arent super accurate with your cutout you might have to use a mid size plate.

there are also single device mud rings if you only have one receptacle or switch.

the first plate you posted isnt for use on top of a mud ring. it is used directly on the box for exposed work.