Epoxy vs Polyurea base coat with polyaspartic top coat

[Mojaverider]

I've got a 1600 square foot shop in Texas that is going up, and I've been doing lots and lots of reading on floor coatings. I'm going to pay a pro to coat the floor; I don't feel confident in my ability to coat it and have it last: buy once, cry once. Garage use will be automotive work, but not much metal fab (I can't fab), so limited amounts of welding and/or grinding. Concrete is brand new, so no crack repair or stains have to be removed.

I definitely want a polyaspartic top coat, but I've gotten quotes from two contractors that use different products:

Garage Experts Franchise

• 97% solids epoxy base
• vinyl chips
• polyaspartic top coat
• lifetime warranty against peeling/discoloration

Penntek Coatings Franchise

• Polyurea base
• vinyl chips
• polyaspartic top coat
• 15 year peeling warranty
• lifetime UV discoloration warranty

The quotes are fairly similar, but I'm not sure if one product is better than the other. The Garage Experts franchise has done a floor of a car buddy that I know and trust, and he has nothing but great things to say about it.

Is there any compelling reason to go with one over product over the other?

 

[drmarkr]

Following....

 

[Garage Flooring]

All things equal I would go poly throughout. BUT all things are never equal. Who do you feel most comfortable with?

 

[Mojaverider]

All things equal I would go poly throughout. BUT all things are never equal. Who do you feel most comfortable with?

I probably feel more comfortable with the epoxy based franchise, as I know of work they have done. That said, they are based about 1.5 hours away, compared to the poly franchise that is a mere 10 mins away. I'm not sure how that would affect any warranty/repair situations that might come up.

 

[Mojaverider]

Anyone have any strong feelings? I'm having trouble separating marketing hype from actual product performance. Some claim polyurea won't harden over time as much, helping to prevent peeling compared to epoxy, but other claim it doesn't stick to concrete as well as epoxy.

 

[Shea]

Are you going to go with full color flakes, partial, or none?

 

[Mojaverider]

Are you going to go with full color flakes, partial, or none?

I was planning on full flakes but in a monochromatic gray, so it is easy to find dropped bolts but still have the extra protection with the flakes on top.

 

[Shea]

OK. If going with a full flake floor, I personally prefer epoxy for a couple of reasons. First, a 97% solids epoxy is going to have a thicker dry film thickness than most polyurea coatings. As a result, it's going to do the best job at accepting and adhering to all of the flakes. Second, epoxy takes longer to cure than the fast curing polyurea floors (this is what Penntek uses) and will have time to seep into the all those open pores to achieve a good mechanical bond.

The fast curing polyurea and polyaspartic floor coatings provide for a one day install and is why many installers want to use them. It reduces their labor rate and allows them to do more installs in a week. Plus, it's a selling point for potential buyers who don't want to go without their garage for more than a day. They are also more expensive.

They can be very durable floors when properly installed. What some experienced installers don't like about them is that the first coat does not get much time to seep into the concrete like a slower curing coating does. Peeling can occur if the concrete does not achieve the proper CSP profile or if the concrete experiences some moisture from below.

The fast curing polyurea floors are a 2-part coating and should not be confused with the single-part polyurea coatings that some vendors on the forum offer. The single-part polyureas do an excellent job at adhering well due to their solvent-base and the longer curing time compared to the fast curing 2-part polyureas used by installers.

"Some claim polyurea won't harden over time as much, helping to prevent peeling compared to epoxy" - This statement is false. However, it may be confused with a characteristic of polyurea and polyaspartics. Epoxy is extremely hard when cured, where as polyurea and polyaspartic are more flexible (relatively speaking). In simple terms, the more flexible surface does a better job of preventing scratching, it creates for a longer wearing surface, and it absorbs impacts better. The technical data sheets will demonstrate that. This is why a high performance polyurea or polyaspartic top coat is desirable for most applications.

 

[Mojaverider]

"Some claim polyurea won't harden over time as much, helping to prevent peeling compared to epoxy" - This statement is false. However, it may be confused with a characteristic of polyurea and polyaspartics. Epoxy is extremely hard when cured, where as polyurea and polyaspartic are more flexible (relatively speaking). In simple terms, the more flexible surface does a better job of preventing scratching, it creates for a longer wearing surface, and it absorbs impacts better. The technical data sheets will demonstrate that. This is why a high performance polyurea or polyaspartic top coat is desirable for most applications.

Thank you for clearing up that confusion. That is what I was trying to convey. I appreciate the breakdown!

 

[rjacobs]

When i did my floor one of the things that sold me on the Legacy Nohr-S system was their 3 layer approach. Their primer is epoxy based, not polyurea... When I asked about this I was told epoxy would soak into the concrete much much better than polyurea and provide a much stronger bond for the overall system.

Where at in Texas are you? I live 45 minutes south of Dallas and if not to far I wouldnt mind helping you lay down a coating...its not to hard. With 1600 sq. ft. you would want at least 4 people... 2 full roller setups and 2 people working the edges and flaking. Unless you have saw cuts you arent going to fill and have a natural break where you can work on it over a few days time.

I ALMOST used Garage Experts...

2 things turned me off

-2 coats only. I was not doing full flake, I think their full flake has 2 coats of clear, check on this though to make sure, you wont like a full flake with only a single clear coat, needs 2. I liked the idea of the primer coat that I got with the Nohr-S. I believe the Garage Experts guy said he could lay down a primer layer, but it was like an extra $1000(for what I could figure was $200 or less in materials). Everything I read says thickness matters and "theoretically" the more mil thickness you have the better the floor will be.

-1 day application and you can park on it in 24 hours... Now I only had ~650 sq. ft. 3 car garage, but knowing the other products out there I didnt see how either of those was possible... Most people seem to knock out 1 hour per 100 sq. ft. of grinding so 6.5 hours in my case(thats about how long it took me with a rental grinder)...unless they had 2 or 3 machines(this I dont know). Then most polyurea products I saw had like 4 hours minimum between coats. And Legacy IIRC recommended i think it was 24 hours minimum to drive on it, but said if I could go 5-7 days before parking on it thats the best. I think I read it(polyurea) attains something like 85-90% hardness in 24 hours and the remainder over 5-6 more days...

So if they had come in at 8am and started grinding they would finish at like 230...lets say they have an hour of cleanup time then lay the base coat at 330, the second coat could go on as early as 730pm...more like 8pm... so I guess technically on a 2 coat system they COULD get it done in 1 day, but it seemed optimistic... OR they shortcut something to knock it out faster...

 

[Mojaverider]

When i did my floor one of the things that sold me on the Legacy Nohr-S system was their 3 layer approach. Their primer is epoxy based, not polyurea... When I asked about this I was told epoxy would soak into the concrete much much better than polyurea and provide a much stronger bond for the overall system.

Where at in Texas are you? I live 45 minutes south of Dallas and if not to far I wouldnt mind helping you lay down a coating...its not to hard. With 1600 sq. ft. you would want at least 4 people... 2 full roller setups and 2 people working the edges and flaking. Unless you have saw cuts you arent going to fill and have a natural break where you can work on it over a few days time.

I ALMOST used Garage Experts...

2 things turned me off

-2 coats only. I was not doing full flake, I think their full flake has 2 coats of clear, check on this though to make sure, you wont like a full flake with only a single clear coat, needs 2. I liked the idea of the primer coat that I got with the Nohr-S. I believe the Garage Experts guy said he could lay down a primer layer, but it was like an extra $1000(for what I could figure was $200 or less in materials). Everything I read says thickness matters and "theoretically" the more mil thickness you have the better the floor will be.

-1 day application and you can park on it in 24 hours... Now I only had ~650 sq. ft. 3 car garage, but knowing the other products out there I didnt see how either of those was possible... Most people seem to knock out 1 hour per 100 sq. ft. of grinding so 6.5 hours in my case(thats about how long it took me with a rental grinder)...unless they had 2 or 3 machines(this I dont know). Then most polyurea products I saw had like 4 hours minimum between coats. And Legacy IIRC recommended i think it was 24 hours minimum to drive on it, but said if I could go 5-7 days before parking on it thats the best. I think I read it(polyurea) attains something like 85-90% hardness in 24 hours and the remainder over 5-6 more days...

So if they had come in at 8am and started grinding they would finish at like 230...lets say they have an hour of cleanup time then lay the base coat at 330, the second coat could go on as early as 730pm...more like 8pm... so I guess technically on a 2 coat system they COULD get it done in 1 day, but it seemed optimistic... OR they shortcut something to knock it out faster...

Thanks for the offer, that is super generous! I'm in Aggieland, so you aren't far away at all.

I'll have to check on the number of top coats. I believe you are correct in that there is no 'primer' layer: the epoxy is the bottom coat. My sales guy was pushing hard for the flakes. His reasoning was it helps hide any imperfections in the concrete and provides additional thickness to protect the floor.

I think my space is large enough that it will be a 2 day job for the Garage Experts crew.

 

[rjacobs]

Thanks for the offer, that is super generous! I'm in Aggieland, so you aren't far away at all.

I'll have to check on the number of top coats. I believe you are correct in that there is no 'primer' layer: the epoxy is the bottom coat. My sales guy was pushing hard for the flakes. His reasoning was it helps hide any imperfections in the concrete and provides additional thickness to protect the floor.

I think my space is large enough that it will be a 2 day job for the Garage Experts crew.

If you do full flake make sure you get 2 layers of clear... I didnt ask about a full flake floor because for me the price was prohibitive. Their light and medium flake floors only had 1 layer of clear.

I think a single thick layer is not a good idea if you read on here a bit.

 

[Mojaverider]

If you do full flake make sure you get 2 layers of clear... I didnt ask about a full flake floor because for me the price was prohibitive. Their light and medium flake floors only had 1 layer of clear.

I think a single thick layer is not a good idea if you read on here a bit.

Noted, thanks!

 

[Mojaverider]

If you do full flake make sure you get 2 layers of clear... I didnt ask about a full flake floor because for me the price was prohibitive. Their light and medium flake floors only had 1 layer of clear.

I think a single thick layer is not a good idea if you read on here a bit.

I confirmed it is 2 layers of clear over the flakes.

 

[Armorpoxy]

Our 2 cents on full broadcasts is that they are very thick and therefore work well laying into a thicker coating so we normally set up our full broadcasts to be bulletproof with mid-solids epoxy primer, then 100% solids epoxy which doesn't soak in so stays thick as the floor is coated already with primer, full flecks, and then two coats of topcoat.

We agree 2 coats of topcoat is required on a full broadcast as the overlapping flecks create millions of gaps that won't fill properly with a single topcoat.

 

[Mojaverider]

Our 2 cents on full broadcasts is that they are very thick and therefore work well laying into a thicker coating so we normally set up our full broadcasts to be bulletproof with mid-solids epoxy primer, then 100% solids epoxy which doesn't soak in so stays thick as the floor is coated already with primer, full flecks, and then two coats of topcoat.

We agree 2 coats of topcoat is required on a full broadcast as the overlapping flecks create millions of gaps that won't fill properly with a single topcoat.

Makes sense, thanks for the breakdown!

 

[Mge2093]

thanks Shea

 

[wydizzle]

I've got a 1600 square foot shop in Texas that is going up, and I've been doing lots and lots of reading on floor coatings. I'm going to pay a pro to coat the floor; I don't feel confident in my ability to coat it and have it last: buy once, cry once. Garage use will be automotive work, but not much metal fab (I can't fab), so limited amounts of welding and/or grinding. Concrete is brand new, so no crack repair or stains have to be removed.

I definitely want a polyaspartic top coat, but I've gotten quotes from two contractors that use different products:

Garage Experts Franchise

• 97% solids epoxy base
• vinyl chips
• polyaspartic top coat
• lifetime warranty against peeling/discoloration

Penntek Coatings Franchise

• Polyurea base
• vinyl chips
• polyaspartic top coat
• 15 year peeling warranty
• lifetime UV discoloration warranty

The quotes are fairly similar, but I'm not sure if one product is better than the other. The Garage Experts franchise has done a floor of a car buddy that I know and trust, and he has nothing but great things to say about it.

Is there any compelling reason to go with one over product over the other?

I am in a similar position. Did you end up deciding on a company?

 

[Mojaverider]

I am in a similar position. Did you end up deciding on a company?

I ended up going with the Garage Experts with all grey. This floor isn't as "pretty" as their more colorful options, but I was worried about losing dropped bolts on the floor with anything more colorful. The finish is good, but certainly not amazing. I'm not sure if that's because the top coat is tinted grey instead of being clear, but I can see inconsistencies in the distribution of flakes in spots. It does clean up well enough, which was the whole point.

 

[Garageguy4]

I'd love to see pictures when done.

 

[wydizzle]

I ended up going with the Garage Experts with all grey. This floor isn't as "pretty" as their more colorful options, but I was worried about losing dropped bolts on the floor with anything more colorful. The finish is good, but certainly not amazing. I'm not sure if that's because the top coat is tinted grey instead of being clear, but I can see inconsistencies in the distribution of flakes in spots. It does clean up well enough, which was the whole point.

Would love to see some pics if you have them. Thanks!

 

[Mojaverider]

Would love to see some pics if you have them. Thanks!

I'd love to see pictures when done.

Here are pics after the floor was done. As I said, the flake inconsistency is not a big deal and you can't really see it when there are cars and **** inside.

 

[Leo330]

I agonized over this decision the past week. I searched this forum for "Garage Experts" and found nothing. I literally gave the Garage Experts guy a check and was showing him garage journal, and this was the first one up. I said "I can't believe I'm going with ya'll and you are not even on garage journal."

What sold me was the owners were very serious that "They live here and go to church in this city. And his kids goes to school here." The city is about 60,000 people so that tends to mean something. He knew if it was bad I'd tell all my friends on Facebook. I told him I would add pictures and a review when the work was done. Lifetime warranty and when I told him I plan to be here 30 years he just said we will be friends a long time. They inspect the floor annual he said.

@Mojaverider did your guy plan for annual inspections?

My floor goes down April 20th.

 

[Mojaverider]

I agonized over this decision the past week. I searched this forum for "Garage Experts" and found nothing. I literally gave the Garage Experts guy a check and was showing him garage journal, and this was the first one up. I said "I can't believe I'm going with ya'll and you are not even on garage journal."

What sold me was the owners were very serious that "They live here and go to church in this city. And his kids goes to school here." The city is about 60,000 people so that tends to mean something. He knew if it was bad I'd tell all my friends on Facebook. I told him I would add pictures and a review when the work was done. Lifetime warranty and when I told him I plan to be here 30 years he just said we will be friends a long time. They inspect the floor annual he said.

@Mojaverider did your guy plan for annual inspections?

My floor goes down April 20th.

My franchise didn't say anything about annual inspections. I used him partially on a recommendation by a fellow guy buddy who has known him for years and used him in his own garage. There is no franchise local to me, he is about 75 miles away, so hopefully that doesn't impact my ability to get warranty service should I need it.

 

[wydizzle]

I think the floor looks good! Nice and simple.

 

[Mojaverider]

I think the floor looks good! Nice and simple.

Thanks!

 

[jtwrace]

I just had Garage Experts do my Garage, Lani and Front Porch today. Turned out really well and nice to have the owner do it himself too.

 

[Mojaverider]

I just had Garage Experts do my Garage, Lani and Front Porch today. Turned out really well and nice to have the owner do it himself too.

Looks great. I want to get my back porch done, but my garage used up all my funds...

 

[jtwrace]

Looks great. I want to get my back porch done, but my garage used up all my funds...

I get it! I figured this was the time to do it...new build and he's here anyway.

 

[Leo330]

Just a update mine did not turn out as good as I expected. I sent the owner a email this morning to see if it meets his standards. It is ok but not good. Some pictures here...

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=479726