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Epstein's Tool Gossip : Channellock's New Locking Pliers
- Thread starter jsackin
- Start date
Thank you so much!We were getting heavy attacks on our site and had to shut down access outside the US. The problem's been fixed so I'll go ahead and relist PR (and also Australia). Should happen today.
Wakefield
Well-known member
A You Tuber claims that severely tightening the screw that is part of a locking plier such as a Vice-Grip is a good way to clamp down very hard on something. I think he even (one that has the hex drive hole in the screw) tightened it with a small impact driver.
Am I right that that is a no no ? (Can get plenty of crush by setting the screw,then squeezing the grip to lock.) I think the main purpose of the hex socket is if the tool is hard to release,then is the time to put some torque on that screw (lefty loosey!)?
sort of addressing this to jsackin
Am I right that that is a no no ? (Can get plenty of crush by setting the screw,then squeezing the grip to lock.) I think the main purpose of the hex socket is if the tool is hard to release,then is the time to put some torque on that screw (lefty loosey!)?
sort of addressing this to jsackin
I've always thought of the screw as a pre-adjustment mechanism, so you gauge what tension you want before you clamp. Not sure if tightening while it's clamped would hurt the tool or not. Imagine there is a way to over-tighten which is what may happen if you're adjusting it with an impact.A You Tuber claims that severely tightening the screw that is part of a locking plier such as a Vice-Grip is a good way to clamp down very hard on something. I think he even (one that has the hex drive hole in the screw) tightened it with a small impact driver.
Am I right that that is a no no ? (Can get plenty of crush by setting the screw,then squeezing the grip to lock.) I think the main purpose of the hex socket is if the tool is hard to release,then is the time to put some torque on that screw (lefty loosey!)?
sort of addressing this to jsackin
Wakefield
Well-known member
I don't think you can hurt the tool directly by turning the adj. screw with your finger/thumb except of course if you are too aggressive with squeezing the grips handle after tightening the screw a bit too far you can destroy whatever you have in the plier,I think the socket in the screw was put there for loosening purpose rather than for forcing it tight. If the grip is very tight it can be hard to push the "quick release" and it can spring open violently. So the option to use more than "finger power" when loosening the screw.
My interpretation. The "First Aid Kit in a Jar" tool.
Box that original Petersen "No. 10 R" came in says "Mightiest of ALL HAND TOOLS!" "Locks onto Work with Ton-Grip!"
My interpretation. The "First Aid Kit in a Jar" tool.
Box that original Petersen "No. 10 R" came in says "Mightiest of ALL HAND TOOLS!" "Locks onto Work with Ton-Grip!"
I think this all started with project farms testing of vise grips. He needed some way to test gripping power repeatable, and the way we all do it is variable. This torquing the adjustment screw came about, and caused really weird performance results as far as I’m concerned. The release mechanism on the original vise is terrible, and carrying around a wrench to open them up would probably save a lot of painful yanking. Or, just buy a brand with an improved release. Plus, since you don’t have to carry the loosening wrench, you’ll have room for a proper set of cutters, and not have to deal with the vise grips terrible version.
I can see why Project Farm would have used the torque of the adjustment screw as an easy way to test consistently, but it’s not a real world test.
Really he should have set one as tight as he could close it by hand, measure that force, then set them all to the same closing force applied to the handles.
I don’t think anyone uses a hex key to adjust locking pliers. I’ve wondered if the real reason for that screw is to make assembly quicker, not really for use…
Really he should have set one as tight as he could close it by hand, measure that force, then set them all to the same closing force applied to the handles.
I don’t think anyone uses a hex key to adjust locking pliers. I’ve wondered if the real reason for that screw is to make assembly quicker, not really for use…
That little screw can apply a lot of force
Fireball tools lockingpliers are designed to give maximum clamping force by adjusting the screw, not squeeze strength
see also stronghand and Milwaukee style screws (levers)
Fireball tools lockingpliers are designed to give maximum clamping force by adjusting the screw, not squeeze strength
see also stronghand and Milwaukee style screws (levers)
neophyte
Well-known member
One of the main advantages of the screw used on the Milwaukee locking pliers, is that it gives the ability to easily lock a lanyard to the pliers for safety if dropped, or just to keep track of the pliers.That little screw can apply a lot of force
Fireball tools lockingpliers are designed to give maximum clamping force by adjusting the screw, not squeeze strength
see also stronghand and Milwaukee style screws (levers)
I presume you might also be ably to use the Milwaukee pliers by pulling with a cord or cable.
I’ve thought that being able to pull or suspend things with that could be useful… but I also find it funny that one application is a safety lanyard, the other is an (unsafe) hook (not quite LOL…)I presume you might also be ably to use the Milwaukee pliers by pulling with a cord or cable.
One of the main advantages of the screw used on the Milwaukee locking pliers, is that it gives the ability to easily lock a lanyard to the pliers for safety if dropped, or just to keep track of the pliers.
I presume you might also be ably to use the Milwaukee pliers by pulling with a cord or cable.
Not so sure about that
I thought it was for applying a screwdriver or other shaft through the hole to use for leverage
perhaps lanyard use as well?
Rogue_Ryder
Member
Heavy Machine Tools of the 1930s are far better than anything that is available today.3 years ago SK were trying to turn on a 80+ year old extruder to try to make competitive screwdrivers. I assume this came from WF. This channel shows everything they had laying around their facility two three years ago. Doesn’t look competitive.
The machining tools that NASA contractors used to build the Saturn Rockets, Space Shuttle ET and now the SLS and Orion CEV are all repurposed machinery from the 1930s and 40s (the welding tools are much more modern and cutting edge). There's a Giant NILES Vertical mill (2 actually one larger 20' and one 13' IIRC) that when NASA Contractors did a study 20+ years ago there was nobody on the planet that could build anything that came close to providing the tolerance that this old beast could. So NASA spent millions to rebuild it. You can see it here:
So if 80 year old machines are the best for machining NASA manned space flight hardware they are certainly capable of making a quality screw driver! Even the smaller machines that NASA uses for smaller parts are from WW2 and before: https://nasasitebuilder.nasawestpri...D_.01.14.Michoud_BD_Handouts_MachineShops.pdf
American Locomotive
Well-known member
It's wonderful that NASA's contractors utilize some ancient machinery - but that had nothing at all to do with making hand tools. Mass-manufacturing is a whole different world than one-off machining. You can make beautiful space-ready parts with a worn-out Bridgeport if you take your time and know the limitations of the machine. That doesn't mean I can run a successful competitive hand-tool company with an army of Bridgeports.
Old machine tools can absolutely be precise and accurate but they will not be automated, fast, consistent and stable. I came from manufacturing, and the company I worked for was constantly replacing old equipment with newer machinery. They had good old "American Iron" like ACME-Gridley, Brown & Sharpe, Davenports, etc..
Those old school machines while reliable, are not stable - meaning the operators are constantly chasing them around throughout the day to keep parts in spec. God forbid you have to stop the machine to do something for 30 minutes, because it's going to start making scrap on restart until it gets some heat back in it. They're also limited in what they can do, meaning many of your parts need a second or even third operation in a different machine. All of that fiddling around, secondary work and so on really hurts productivity. That was fine in 1940s America - not today.
The company I worked for would replace those machines with modern CNC screw machines: Swiss-style machines and multi-spindle CNC screw machines from European manufacturers. These machines are super rigid, super stable, and can support all kinds of auxiliary tools to make complete parts without the need for secondary operations. These machines are darn-near set&forget. Get them warmed up in the morning, and they'll pretty much just keep making good parts all day long.
Old machine tools can absolutely be precise and accurate but they will not be automated, fast, consistent and stable. I came from manufacturing, and the company I worked for was constantly replacing old equipment with newer machinery. They had good old "American Iron" like ACME-Gridley, Brown & Sharpe, Davenports, etc..
Those old school machines while reliable, are not stable - meaning the operators are constantly chasing them around throughout the day to keep parts in spec. God forbid you have to stop the machine to do something for 30 minutes, because it's going to start making scrap on restart until it gets some heat back in it. They're also limited in what they can do, meaning many of your parts need a second or even third operation in a different machine. All of that fiddling around, secondary work and so on really hurts productivity. That was fine in 1940s America - not today.
The company I worked for would replace those machines with modern CNC screw machines: Swiss-style machines and multi-spindle CNC screw machines from European manufacturers. These machines are super rigid, super stable, and can support all kinds of auxiliary tools to make complete parts without the need for secondary operations. These machines are darn-near set&forget. Get them warmed up in the morning, and they'll pretty much just keep making good parts all day long.