Odd-job
Well-known member
hard to go wrong at that price. 2 Koken sockets pretty much run that much.
Euro Tools Query
- Thread starter _brian_
- Start date
100% agree on E10, mine is 3/8 and I really needed it to be a 1/4 to fit in a porsche engine bay last week. Think I'll order that bgs set you mentioned
This is why I just went with the set. I understand what most all have said on the brand, but that set knocked out 2 of my needs at a good price. If I end up using these more often, I will end up getting either a better set or singles of the sizes not in my better sets.
Yeah, I am not sure why some tools like this are so hard to find in the US. I understand that the cars most often used on are European, but they are available here without too much effort. I don't intend on promoting the BGS set, it is just the best value I could find. I am betting that once these fasteners become more common as we are already seeing, availability in the US will increase, allowing me to get a nicer quality and complete set. I can remember when I purchased my first e-torx socket, selections were slim at best. Now, most all brands have them.
What puzzles me often is why sets are sold of these types of tools in all the same drive size. Who wants sockets in the 6mm sizes with 1/2 inch drive? Maybe some do I guess, but it is so large and that kind of torque can never be used, making their unique function sort of useless.
I have bought and used various ks-tools, bgs, ampro, biltema brand tools +20 years. Socket tools, torx, xnz, specialty tools, impact sockets, extensions, even some pliers, satisfied with the price & quality of the ones I have bought. The Ks-tools has a huge selection compared to what it was at the beginning of the 2000s. ( 800 page catalog today, tool )
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UPDATE: Having received the set I wanted to give an update. The set cost a total of $13.18, the price had gone down a lot after I posted initially here. It is hard for me to comment on quality. The one socket I used fit the fastener perfectly, and I checked all of the sockets for fit on a few ratchets and extensions and found no issues with fit. The chrome and visual quality is free of flaws as I can see.
I did check out Koken and the cost is just too high for this need. Getting 5 pieces for this price is just too hard to beat. Considering they are only 1/4 drive, there will never be high torque placed on them and they are low use sockets for me compared to my regular use sockets. I do appreciate the suggestions to Koken. I only have one Koken tool so my experience with the brand is limited. Seeing the support for the brand here will keep them in consideration for future tool needs as a quality tool.
Doing more looking at my tool needs that are hard to meet in the US, I have another question for those in the Europe area, or anyone who knows. I found some other brands, like Sealey, that come sometimes unbranded, such as their chrome sockets. They look just like any other generic socket sold. I was with the understanding Sealey was a "top" brand, is that correct? If so, is it normal for Euro tools to not have a brand on them, or when they do, not have the brand stamped into the tool, but instead etched or printed? In the US it seems common that when a tool has no branding or only has the brand etched or printed, that brand is a general rebrander. They are just buying the tools off the line and getting their brand on the cheapest way they can, if at all. Where at least when the branding is stamped, there is a difference in the manufacturing process, at very least for the roll stamping.
I am trying to understand the Euro tool market a little better. I am finding some tools I cannot find here, so I would like to make sure anything I might order is at least good, not that I pay to have something shipped here that is a "dollar bin" quality.
I did check out Koken and the cost is just too high for this need. Getting 5 pieces for this price is just too hard to beat. Considering they are only 1/4 drive, there will never be high torque placed on them and they are low use sockets for me compared to my regular use sockets. I do appreciate the suggestions to Koken. I only have one Koken tool so my experience with the brand is limited. Seeing the support for the brand here will keep them in consideration for future tool needs as a quality tool.
Doing more looking at my tool needs that are hard to meet in the US, I have another question for those in the Europe area, or anyone who knows. I found some other brands, like Sealey, that come sometimes unbranded, such as their chrome sockets. They look just like any other generic socket sold. I was with the understanding Sealey was a "top" brand, is that correct? If so, is it normal for Euro tools to not have a brand on them, or when they do, not have the brand stamped into the tool, but instead etched or printed? In the US it seems common that when a tool has no branding or only has the brand etched or printed, that brand is a general rebrander. They are just buying the tools off the line and getting their brand on the cheapest way they can, if at all. Where at least when the branding is stamped, there is a difference in the manufacturing process, at very least for the roll stamping.
I am trying to understand the Euro tool market a little better. I am finding some tools I cannot find here, so I would like to make sure anything I might order is at least good, not that I pay to have something shipped here that is a "dollar bin" quality.
I think I should clarify here. Is it possible to distinguish between exactly what type of importing is happening here? What I mean is there are two types, maybe, but for this let us say two.
1. Brand imports a generic tool that is also imported by numerous other brands, different only if they place their brand on it, usually after the manufacturing process.
2. The brand has tools made overseas. Sometimes to their specifications, sometimes using their specific tooling, etc. This differs because while it is still a "Chinese/Taiwanese import", it is not just the same tool everyone else sells.
I wanted to distinguish this because even brands like Snap-On, Matco, Gearwrench, Mac, etc are all importers of tools. Those brands all have tool trucks here and are generally considered good professional brands. I can also go on Amazon as an example and see a tool or tool set under numerous brands, clearly being the same tool or set. There is a big difference between the brands in those two examples, but they can all be called "Chinese/Taiwanese import"ing brands, at least to some degree.
While the fine details may not be known for each brand, I can point out the US brands that fit on each side of the two types I identified above. Of course it is not a all or nothing either, I hope the statements make sense.
Here we have a brand/company, Harbor Freight. They sell a few brands that are their own brands. I can easily say that the set of brands is junk. They are a Chinese/Taiwanese import company that does not provide much value to a user beyond home furniture assembly. Some of their stuff has proven to be decent, but it is so hit and miss and the bad stuff it really bad... best to just avoid them unless a cheap tool is what you want.
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From what I'm told they have a USA like warranty, but that's not gonna do you much good if you have to constantly ship their stuff back and forth.
I 100% agree. The best warranty is the one you never need to use.... for that exact reason. As I mentioned above too, if the tool has no brand on it, that is a lot of burden to prove it is their tool. For me, regardless of brand or where they are located, no branding on the tool generally means no interest.
Kasal
Well-known member
The tools, KsTools, are generic tools but they do the job as long as you don't abuse them. I've had a set for a year now, some sockets have broken without too much effort and bits will bend very easily, but it's ok for the price. Maybe I would have tried Toptul or KingTony. 
Thanks for sharing. It seems like KS Tool is similar to our Harbor Freight having brands like Pittsburgh. They work, but don't expect much. This is great to know. Are there any "great value" Euro tool brands? Those that perform excellent at a cheaper price? For example in the US, we have a brand Tekton, where their impact sockets are great, enough so I would not spend on most other brands. I use that example as I have those and can speak first hand to them. I would give a picture but my tools are not with me right now.The tools, KsTools, are generic tools but they do the job as long as you don't abuse them. I've had a set for a year now, some sockets have broken without too much effort and bits will bend very easily, but it's ok for the price. Maybe I would have tried Toptul or KingTony.
I know many seem a bit confused on why I am looking at Euro tool brands when we have importing brands here as well. The reason is simply that the selections in the sets and even single tool availability includes tools and sizes that are not in the similar brands/sets here. While I started this rabbit hole of sorts looking for a specific immediate need, it has grown once I have seen what is all readily available in the Euro brands.
Kasal
Well-known member
Oh yes I know Tekton tools, I have several hammers a 3/8 impact socket set a ratchet and 3/8 socket set. Like you, I like to have a variety of brands in my toolbox. Usag has the same as Facom but at a lower price, I've also had luck with the Beta brand. I also have a lot of Bahco, it's good for the price and it has remarkable things from top brands.
Beta used to be top notch. Nowadays (especially since they introduced their Easy line) it wouldn't even make my European top 10 list but the prices remained sky high except for their China rebrands. If you have some old Beta tools made in Italy take good care of them.
Kasal
Well-known member
I have bought some Beta tools a long time ago, I remember that an auto parts store near where I worked had the promotional flyers once a month. surely they were from the Easy line. Most were special-job tools, so they were rarely used, but I also picked up some extra long hex keys that I abused like hell and they hold up like new.
richfinn
Well-known member
I can't see much value in buying rebranded Taiwan/Chinese from Europe and shipping them to the USA to be honest.
If you want European tools stick with name brand EU made stuff and look for good discounts.
If you want European tools stick with name brand EU made stuff and look for good discounts.
At the company's workshop the guys tell me that their King Tony tools hold up better than their Beta tools. They only have 2 tool trolleys of Beta tools, most others are King Tony. I wonder how they compare to the other workshop's mostly Berner tools. They do have a lot of other individual tools from a lot of other companies, but I doubt they have Beta.
Kasal
Well-known member
I have a 1/2 KingTony set of keys. For me they are very good tools and have a very good finish, at first I could buy them on Amazon at a good price, now they are too expensive. I have seen them for sale in several tractor parts stores, perhaps they have found their niche there, at least in this part of the world.
Sealey is one of the better importers in the UK.
The top brands for regular mechanics in the UK are Snap on and Mac, typically most mechanics use at least some of them. Then there’s the four main higher tier importers: Sealey, Draper, Halfords and Clarke. These all offer premium tier tools with lifetime warranty, and lesser tiers that are lower quality. The premium tiers of Sealey (Premier), Draper (Expert) and Halfords (Advanced) fall partly into your category 1 and partly into category 2, some tools are made to their spec, some are just rebadged. All are great quality and very tough, I have abused Draper Expert tools for 20 years and sealey for 10 years and never broken a socket. The lesser tiers are…not good.
Then there’s the mid tiers of importer, US Pro/Berken, which aren’t as nicely finished but are decent quality and very tough. And we have lower tiers, Laser, rolson, etc, that are just nasty fragile junk.
For the sake of completeness, the other significant brands are Facom, beta, teng, Wera, Stahlwille, great tools but probably off topic for this post.
I am personally a big fan of the imported tools, the sealey extension set sits right next to the snap on sockets in my 1/4 draw and the sealey sockets sit next up the snap on ratchets in my 3/8 drawer. However I wouldn’t bother to import our imported brands into the US unless there’s something you can’t get there, because you have a much wider selection of brands there already.
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I think every brand sells at Asia market is made in Taiwan, China, Japan and India. I bought King Tony hex bit, there is a print on the surface, made in Japan. Maybe Matador, KS Tools, TopTul and Genius will be my preferences and Unior is my last harbor 
I can understand what you mean with this. However, it is not a matter of just wanting European tool brands, but the tools. For example (and a poor one), you cannot find a 19mm spark plug socket here. Only way to get one is to import it. Yes, we have the 3/4, so it is a bad example, but it does illustrate the point.
I was needing a few items, such as E11 (external torx) and H11 (11mm hex) that are simply hard to find here.Our sets generally do not include these sizes. I have a "master hex set" with a good number of sizes, and 11mm is not one of them and is the only size I have ever needed the set did not have. When I look at European tools, this is not the case. These sizes are in the sets and kits, even the non top end brands. This is why I am looking at the tools. In the case of the E11 size, I was able to import a 5 piece set (which included the E11) cheaper than I could buy an individual E11 socket here. A few brands do carry them, but at a high price. Otherwise, the option is a generic non name set that includes the size, but that is not something I want. I prefer at least a brand that brands their tools, is recognized, at least has a web site, etc. The generics (Amazon brand and generic eBay stuff) is ok and can work but no of interest to me for most things.
Regarding shipping, you are 100% correct. I mentioned Amazon as the location I was sourcing these tools as they provide free shipping. It is those listings I look at only, although the majority require extra shipping charges. I am strictly looking at value, and when I can get European tools imported / shipped here at a better value than domestic tools, I go for them. The issue I query about here is just knowing the brands. Since the "free shipping" selections are small, I need to select from what is there vs a brand of preference. EXample posted here, Kasal's post of his KS Tools kit includes the E11 size. A sie not covered here in dedicated external torx sets, much less a tool kit like that.
I really appreciate the input from others on the brands. This is something that I can do easily with US brands, but with non US brands, my experience is much more limited. I only wish to avoid getting fooled into thinking that a tool is good quality when it is not.
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I believe Genius tools are all (or mostly) made in Taiwan. The Wiha bit sockets I have are all made in Taiwan as well.I think every brand sells at Asia market is made in Taiwan, China, Japan and India. I bought King Tony hex bit, there is a print on the surface, made in Japan. Maybe Matador, KS Tools, TopTul and Genius will be my preferences and Unior is my last harbor
richfinn
Well-known member
Understood, after 35 years as a mechanic I have a pretty good tool kit so I never buy sets of anything as for the most part I already have what I need.
If I come across a required tool I just buy that individual piece (for sockets I always look at Ko-ken first) I stick all these oddball orphan sockets on a separate socket organiser to keep track of them.
I find it's just easier (less research time) to go with a respected specialist tool manufacturer pay a little bit more and not have any buyers remorse, and I will occasionally buy tool truck items if required (usually if I'm desperate).
I've shipped stuff from the USA to the UK, and it's a pain in the ****. I had a tool go missing in transit (empty package), to be fair Amazon were good about it and refunded me so there's that.
These guys are my usual go to for odd sized sockets
Koken 3425-E11 E11 3/8Dr Female E-Torx 26mm Long Socket (E Type) | UKtools
UKtools Professional Hand Tools, Specialist Socketry from Koken Tools, Facom, Britool, Gearwrench, Signet, Trident, Elora, Knipex, Bondhus and more
www.uktools.com
Koken 3010M.62-11 11mm 3/8"Drive Hex Bit 62mm Long Socket | UKtools
UKtools Professional Hand Tools, Specialist Socketry from Koken Tools, Facom, Britool, Gearwrench, Signet, Trident, Elora, Knipex, Bondhus and more
www.uktools.com
You can almost certainly buy these from Palmac in the USA
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Sorry I made you confused, I mean socket and hex bit. Socket key is the term for socket, the term popular in my country. Thank you Brian for reach out
Now that we have that sorted... I'm really curious where your info is from because I can't imagine either of the 2 having anything to do with Japan. Stahlwille sockets are 100% German and are #1 worldwide due to their hardness that no other manufacturer can achieve, others are about 2 HRC below. The inserts I don't know, but I always imagined they are either manufactured by them or Witte. As for Wiha, they've become greedy bastards and importing anything from Japan wouldn't allow them to operate with an enormous profit margin. They do import some stuff from China, Taiwan, and Vietnam. Their insulated sockets for example are made in Vietnam as far as I know (and probably insulated in Germany). They also have some collab stuff with Xiaomi which is made in either China or Vietnam. I haven't heard of anything from Japan nor do I find it likely.
richfinn
Well-known member
I have had good look with Franklin, based in Sheffield UK, they have been around a long time and sell some decent stuff.
www.franklin-tools.co.uk
Franklin Tools - the Official Site of Franklin Brand Tools
Home - Franklin Tools prides itself on supplying professional quality tools for mechanics and DIY enthusiasts at competitive prices.
maybe I'm the one who misunderstood, I believe I read the discussion about Ko-ken provides socket and ratchet for other company somewhere in this forum. but if Stahlwille 100% made in German, then I will be truly satisfied and will go for it as the price still reasonable compared to Beta Tools and Wera.
Posting from Greece to the OP re. BGS.
I have bought many individual tools, mostly special tools and they can't be beat for the price / quality.
My main tools (sockets and ratchets) are Hazet which I love but can't justify their prices for individual tools, like a shock absorber spreader etc. For all of these I get BGS. Some other examples are long ribe 1/2" socket for Audi engine bolts, 1/2" long ball end hex, 1/2" and 1/4" torx and hex sockets etc. Also got a coolant system pressure tester pump and a few more.
I wouldn't buy a BGS socket set with ratchets as these aren't anything particularly good and you wouldn't get it cheap in USA anyways but they are good for individual tools.
Yes they don't manufacture anything themselves, everything is Taiwan or china but the quality is solid.
Check out prices for some individual special tools
(dont think this greek shop will ship overseas)
akritidis-tools.gr
akritidis-tools.gr
akritidis-tools.gr
akritidis-tools.gr
I have bought many individual tools, mostly special tools and they can't be beat for the price / quality.
My main tools (sockets and ratchets) are Hazet which I love but can't justify their prices for individual tools, like a shock absorber spreader etc. For all of these I get BGS. Some other examples are long ribe 1/2" socket for Audi engine bolts, 1/2" long ball end hex, 1/2" and 1/4" torx and hex sockets etc. Also got a coolant system pressure tester pump and a few more.
I wouldn't buy a BGS socket set with ratchets as these aren't anything particularly good and you wouldn't get it cheap in USA anyways but they are good for individual tools.
Yes they don't manufacture anything themselves, everything is Taiwan or china but the quality is solid.
Sealey is chinesium **** for the Amazon DIY buyer, BGS is pro grade. Many car repair shops here use BGS.
Check out prices for some individual special tools
(dont think this greek shop will ship overseas)
TORX 1/2 ΘΗΛΥΚΑ ΚΟΝΤΑ - Akritidis tools
akritidis-tools.gr
RIBE 1/2 ΜΑΚΡΙΑ - Akritidis tools
akritidis-tools.gr
ΚΛΕΙΔΙΑ ΕΙΔΙΚΑ ΑΝΤΙΚΛΕΠΤΙΚΑ ΤΡΟΧΩΝ - Akritidis tools
akritidis-tools.gr
ΠΟΛΥΓΩΝΑ ΤΥΠΟΥ S - Akritidis tools
akritidis-tools.gr
Most of their tools come from the exact same factory from Hangzhou in the PRC and are made as cheaply as possible. I don't know how one can be "DIY" and the other "pro". They are the exact same ****. The few tools that are made in Taiwan might be better. I know a few workshops that use no name tools, like... one of the employees of the car mechanic my father used to take his car to asked my father to get him a Mannesmann torque wrench (same Chinese **** - would not trust it ever) from Germany because it's cheap.
On the other hand there is a saying that not everything is gold that is shiny. Hazet also has a lot of trash, and I don't mean their rebrands from SEA like most of their pneumatic stuff but tools that are made in their own factory. Their HiPer line ratchets with 80 teeth are total garbage. They say that these ratchets perform 1.8-2x that of DIN standards. I guess this is why everyone I know has broken theirs within 1-2 months without abuse.
The Stahlwille ratchets with the QR function aren't very good either.
A good manufacturer will always have some **** and the **** rebranders may have some good.