Everything you need to know about bench vises...

[William Covington]

Have a pre WWII (arched lettering - circa 1916)Columbian model 505 with a broken lead screw. Is there a source for parts for a vise this old, or should a a competent machinist be able to make me another screw? The vise has sentimental value to me.
Thanks
William

 

[datsbooksleia]

I bought this little gem from eBay and may have over payed for it, $47 including shipping. But hey its MADE IN USA and that is priceless. Now comes the best part. Restore it. As you can see it served its owner well. After reading many threads about vise restoration I could not find info on how to reduce the slop.The lead screw is about half inch smaller than the bore. Was it made like that? Did it have a bushing insert to hold the lead screw tight in the dynamic jaw? It is currently in a bath of white vinegar. As you can see in the last picture at the base it has a hairline crack. Can a wire welder weld that? Also by the way this is my first tool restoration

 

[EOC_Jason]

Cast objects you can't just weld like normal rolled steel that we are used to.

As for the gap. I supposed you could try to make a brass bushing if it bothered you so much. I'm not really familiar with the open screw type vises, but other's are and I'm sure they can help out.

 

[Jere]

Not sure if anyone has said this already or if the first post is still getting updated, but I have been reading Prentiss was bought out by Parker. Parker sold the Merideth made vises with the Prentiss name one them for a number of years. The non Parker made vises were made in New York, and are stamped as such.

 

[autopts]

Guys, I thought this was an excellent tutorial on making vise jaws.

http://wiltonbenchvise.com/vise-jaws/building-wilton-vise-jaws

 

[EOC_Jason]

That is a very good read, thanks for sharing.

Who owns WiltonViseParts? Is he a member here?

 

[mcmlvif100]

That is a very good read, thanks for sharing.

Who owns WiltonViseParts? Is he a member here?

I am pretty sure that it is KMScott as the above site links to the website for his "store" http://wiltonviseparts.net/. If you are in need, he makes beautiful replacement jaws. He posts on "The VISES of Garage Journal" fairly often.

Kevin

 

[Dorsey]

This is a great site. I just bought a Prentiss 20 marked New York and want to restore it to use in my home shop. It is rusty but no welds and so far no cracks. I have 2 questions (I am sure there will be more) and was hoping to get some answers from the experts.

1) The swivel pin on my vise is several inches longer than the ones shown in pictures of other 20s. However, it appears original and I have seen a picture of a different (and I think very early) Prentiss with a similar long pin. Anyone know if the longer pin is correct for a model 20 and when the change was made?

2) I see pictures of restored vises in which the slides appear polished, some where they are painted and some that are left untouched. I prefer the polished look - is there any reason that they should not be polished and what is the best method?

Thanks for any help.

 

[EOC_Jason]

1. Who knows. If the pin fits then smile and be happy. Most have been lost over the years and unfortunately it's not a standard taper. You have to realize these Prentiss' are made around late 1800's to early 1900's, so detailed documentation is non-existent.

2. I like the polished look too. Best method is a wire wheel on an angle-grinder or drill. For super-high shine you would use buffing wheels afterwards. If you have access to a blasting cabinet you can bead blast it clean first then wire-wheel to polish it up.

To prevent rust on bare metal like the slide, you can either use a light oil or put "paste wax" on it. I've found it at my local home depot in the isle with the cleaning supplies.

1) The swivel pin on my vise is several inches longer than the ones shown in pictures of other 20s. However, it appears original and I have seen a picture of a different (and I think very early) Prentiss with a similar long pin. Anyone know if the longer pin is correct for a model 20 and when the change was made?

2) I see pictures of restored vises in which the slides appear polished, some where they are painted and some that are left untouched. I prefer the polished look - is there any reason that they should not be polished and what is the best method?

 

[KMScott]

That is a very good read, thanks for sharing.

Who owns WiltonViseParts? Is he a member here?

I am pretty sure that it is KMScott as the above site links to the website for his "store" http://wiltonviseparts.net/. If you are in need, he makes beautiful replacement jaws. He posts on "The VISES of Garage Journal" fairly often.

Hey guys, I am glad you liked my read, I sent it to autopts to have his opinion and he posted it here. The info site is just a feeder site for my jaw site. That's what Google likes and it helps rank my Jaw site on the first pages during searches. I actually enjoy writing the articles and will add some more. I need the practice.

Kevin

 

[gregory113513]

After retirement i have buying vises to resell here in michigan. I didn't realize that so many people need or collect vises. Can you please tell me what causes the "play" in the vises and how to repair them. By "play", i mean either you can move the jaw forward and back a little bit with your hand or you have to turn the handle a turn or so before the jaw moves. Any other advise in the repair department would be great too. Thanks again, greg

 

[KMScott]

Gregory
Welcome to GJ, and you asked a very good question, I am learning my self but what I have seen I can share with you. Some vises have the lead screw underneath the jaws that are not hidden, I have seen these lead screws with a C clip or even a snap ring that pulls the moveable jaw back, adding shims or a spacer would tighten the backlash. Remember the Lead screw pulls the moveable jaw and the clip returns it.

The Wilton Barrel vises use a horseshoe washer that fits into a groove cut into the lead screw, see my picture, the groove is cut into softer steel than the washer so most of the backlash comes from the wear in the groove. No grease is the culprit here.

The older vises like the Starretts and have a acme nut located in the back of the square slider in a dove tail angled channel that is pinned in loosely, some times the pin gets wore, bent and the acme nut block slides forward and backwards till it stops, you can really see this by just pulling and pushing the moveable jaw.

Then another cause is either the square or acme threaded lead screw is just plain wore out, and this also could be the nut. When this happens replacement parts are needed.

Tear into your vises is the best way to fix your vises, please share your pictures before you sell them, we all enjoy looking at old or new vises.

I am interested what other members have to say because I am just getting into these vises my self.

 

[EOC_Jason]

I think you summed it up...

On vises with front collars like a Wilton or Parker, there can be some play. To test that hold the main screw and see if you can slide the dynamic in & out. I've found what are essentially thin washers that you can use to close in the gap there.

Some vises have a ring inside the dynamic jaw with a set-screw that keeps the mainscrew from pulling out. If it's worked its way down there can be some play. Just loosen the set-screw, move it closer in and tighten back. On these there is usually a washer too, which if the washer is missing then that's usually why the ring is not up tight like it should be (because it would bind).

Next is to check if the mainscrew nut can slide back and forth. It's easier to just take the dynamic jaw out completely. Then you can see if the nut will slide back and forth and also up & down. Usually most just have a pin behind them that keeps them from sliding out of their key-way. Usually just a punch & hammer and you can bend the pin down to wedge the nut in place better. I've also used some shim material under the nut to get it tighter in the key-way.

Lastly sometimes the threading on the main screw and / or nut can just be worn. Take the mainscrew out of the dynamic and screw it in the nut. Then try sliding it back and forth and see how much play there is. If there's too much slop then one or the other or both have worn.


If something I typed didn't make sense, I can take some pictures of each example.

 

[Onibaba]

Gentlemen,

I just broke my JET machinist bench vise. I assume that this JET vise is made by Wilton but I have no hard confirmation of that. Neither do I know if this is a american made vise. I suspect it is since it seems to be an older vise.

I appears that I put too much stress on it. The spindle nut was already broken then brazed welded by the previous owner.

I would like to replace the nut if I can.

Does anybody know of a source for JET parts. This vise has 6" jaws and a 9" swivel plate.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Do you have pictures of the vise and broken nut? That would help...

 

[Onibaba]

Do you have pictures of the vise and broken nut? That would help...

I will take pics and post tonight when I get home...

 

[Onibaba]

Added pictures. I unmounted the vise and looked all over for model number or "made in" marks. Nothing but the JET name on this









Again, looking to replace the spindle nut / vise nut....

 

[EOC_Jason]

It looks like a Morgan Chicago... The company is still in business, you can contact them for parts.

http://www.milwtool.com/v_mach.htm

 

[zoomieport]

After retirement i have buying vises to resell here in michigan. I didn't realize that so many people need or collect vises. Can you please tell me what causes the "play" in the vises and how to repair them. By "play", i mean either you can move the jaw forward and back a little bit with your hand or you have to turn the handle a turn or so before the jaw moves. Any other advise in the repair department would be great too. Thanks again, greg

WELCOME GREG! It's Mike from Kalamazoo!

 

[zoomieport]

Added pictures. I unmounted the vise and looked all over for model number or "made in" marks. Nothing but the JET name on this

I posted photos with measurements here...
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=208611

 

[zoomieport]

Guys, I thought this was an excellent tutorial on making vise jaws.

http://wiltonbenchvise.com/vise-jaws/building-wilton-vise-jaws

Hey guys, I am glad you liked my read, I sent it to autopts to have his opinion and he posted it here. The info site is just a feeder site for my jaw site. That's what Google likes and it helps rank my Jaw site on the first pages during searches. I actually enjoy writing the articles and will add some more. I need the practice.

Kevin

My Dad would be shocked!

I think I just learned something!

Awesome read, very well done, thanks Kevin!

Thanks for sharing Nick

 

[earth_grinder]

Thanks for all the vise information. I just acquired a Wilton C2 and decided to look on the Internet for information for it. This site came up with a wealth of information that allowed me to identify what I have and how to disassemble and repair it. The only thing I see wrong with it so far is the base ring is cracked and was welded once. So, I will be looking at the cost of replacing that ring or repairing it. I still need to completely disassemble and clean it to check for any other problems.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Thanks for all the vise information. I just acquired a Wilton C2 and decided to look on the Internet for information for it. This site came up with a wealth of information that allowed me to identify what I have and how to disassemble and repair it. The only thing I see wrong with it so far is the base ring is cracked and was welded once. So, I will be looking at the cost of replacing that ring or repairing it. I still need to completely disassemble and clean it to check for any other problems.

You can call Wilton for replacement parts. I don't think the cost for a new base is too bad.

 

[earth_grinder]

Thank you, I will check on the price. I got the vice apart and the date is 5/81. I have the jaw bolts soaking in Kroil and will try and get them out later this week.

 

[earth_grinder]

What is commonly used on the vise handle to replace the heavy rubber washers that were originally used?

 

[EOC_Jason]

What is commonly used on the vise handle to replace the heavy rubber washers that were originally used?

Depends on the size...

This eBay seller has some nice ones for larger vises.

Alternatively I've used simple O-Rings, garden hose washers, and even some rubber washers that was for a faucet.

 

[KMScott]

I might add that this e-bay seller is a member here. (Maclin) I am getting some for a few of my vises later this week.

 

[Outlawmws]

on the O-rings; Cheap and durable. I've had heavy O-Rings on my primary vises for WELL over 25 years and still going strong...

 

[earth_grinder]

Sounds good and O-rings are fairly cheap. Thanks.

 

[Jere]

Here is my Prentiss Bulldog picked it up a few weeks ago for $35 at the thrift store. It still has some really old gray lacquer paint on it, and light use. It does seem to have a lot of play in between the base even though it is very tight against the bench. The strange thing is I only notice the play when there is something in the vice that acts as a lever. It is good and tight otherwise, and seems like either something is missing or it has a design flaw. The metal in the base all looks like it is in good shape. Anyone know if there might be a part I am missing?

 

[oldldh]

Let me avoid the rush...

You paid $35.00 for that!!!

My laptop is being pulled north by the massive low pressure coming from Ohio...

 

[EOC_Jason]

Wow, that one looks to be in super nice condition.

I have no experience with the lockdown mechanism on those particular vises, but I'm sure others can chime in.

Probably better to post that picture & question in the The VISES of GJ thread...

 

[J HAV]

Jere- PLEASE post up that pic of the vise in the Vises of Garage Journal thread so I can see other people yell at you too about how much you ****! Nice find for $35, and excellent condition it seems to be in too. I need to start looking in the thrift stores around here now

 

[earth_grinder]

Couple of questions related to my Wilton C2 vise. The screws for the jaws, were they button head allen socket or low probile socket head?

Also, in the photo I have included what is the smashed pin in between the 2 bolt holes in the end where the screw retainer plate goes? The other photo is most of the parts disassembled and cleaned. I still want to try welding the base ring before buying one.

 

[autopts]

Couple of questions related to my Wilton C2 vise. The screws for the jaws, were they button head allen socket or low probile socket head?

Also, in the photo I have included what is the smashed pin in between the 2 bolt holes in the end where the screw retainer plate goes? The other photo is most of the parts disassembled and cleaned. I still want to try welding the base ring before buying one.

The standard jaw takes a 5/16 allen cap screw. That is the most popular to find. If you look closely at where the channel bar goes into the Dynamic jaw, you will notice its in two pieces. The steel bar is pressed into the cast iron Dynamic jaw and that steel dowel is at the end to center the bar up properly. By all means, try to save that ring. Its expensive.

 

[autopts]

Here is my Prentiss Bulldog picked it up a few weeks ago for $35 at the thrift store. ]

That finish is outstanding. You were lucky to find such a nice piece of Americana at such a right price. Its a standout beauty!

 

[earth_grinder]

The standard jaw takes a 5/16 allen cap screw. That is the most popular to find. If you look closely at where the channel bar goes into the Dynamic jaw, you will notice its in two pieces. The steel bar is pressed into the cast iron Dynamic jaw and that steel dowel is at the end to center the bar up properly. By all means, try to save that ring. Its expensive.

Can I grind the pin flush with the surrounding surface? Now it is sticking up slightly.

 

[autopts]

Can I grind the pin flush with the surrounding surface? Now it is sticking up slightly.

Yes, I guess. Wilton, I'm sure made that dowel to tolerance, I never had a dowel stick out, but if you feel it interferes with the collar sitting flush, then I might smooth it down. Wilton uses the 2 piece bar and jaw on only a few of their bullets. The 500S, 600S, 800S, C2, C3. and they started that design in the 70;s

 

[earth_grinder]

Thanks much for your help.

 

[Jere]

Let me avoid the rush...

You paid $35.00 for that!!!

My laptop is being pulled north by the massive low pressure coming from Ohio...

They wanted $85 for it but I told the guy at the store about how I destroyed a handful of Chinese vises and he gave me a deal

Oh and I reposted in the vices thread as ordered