Outlawmws
Well-known member
I like this.
I suppose it's better than the 4 letter "C" word.
(no not that one, the one that doesn't end in "T"... 
Everything you need to know about bench vises...
- Thread starter mjozefow
- Start date
I suppose it's better than the 4 letter "C" word.
(no not that one, the one that doesn't end in "T"... jakemac
Well-known member
I suppose it's better than the 4 letter "C" word.
"CUTE" ?
Outlawmws
Well-known member
partsproduction
Well-known member
What size would a monarch 204 vise be, jaw width wise?
partsproduction
Well-known member
So, to you a "Dynamic" jaw is the same as a "Static" jaw?
I looked at every vize manufacturers descriptions of the parts of their vises, and guess how many called the screw a "Lead" Screw? (Drum roll please)
Total number of real experts (Manufactures) calling the main actuating screw a "Lead" screw,,,,,0
But I guess those guys are foolish too.
bl00
Well-known member
Yost and Wilton use the term lead screw for some vises. Examples:
http://www.yostvises.com/PDF/manual/750DIOM.pdf
page 6, part number 13
http://content.jettools.com/assets/manuals/10025_man.pdf
page 7, index number 11
Mostly I see them referred to as main screw, screw, or spindle.
http://www.yostvises.com/PDF/manual/750DIOM.pdf
page 6, part number 13
http://content.jettools.com/assets/manuals/10025_man.pdf
page 7, index number 11
Mostly I see them referred to as main screw, screw, or spindle.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Wow, 4 month reaction time...
Monarch 204; you sure? I can't find that No. is it possibly 209? stationary or swivel?
Monarch 204; you sure? I can't find that No. is it possibly 209? stationary or swivel?
partsproduction
Well-known member
partsproduction
Well-known member
Using real leadscrews in my trade every day I really want to needle into the meanings of the "LEAD" parts of that misnomer. The term lead in general means to move a specific distance using a screw thread, for a specific purpose. That's my definition, here are some published definitions;
"(on a lathe) a rotating horizontal screw for moving the tool carriage along the work at a constant rate.
The dial, therefore, would enable the carriage to be engaged with the lead-screw at points equal to a travel of one-half inch. "
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lead-screw
Wikipedia uses a wider definition;
"A leadscrew (or lead screw), also known as a power screw[1] or translation screw,[2] is a screw used as a linkage in a machine, to translate turning motion into linear motion." (I protest, that should be a power screw of a slide screw, which would fit a vise application)
However, Wikipedia engineering gets it right;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_(engineering)
"Lead is the axial advance of a helix or screw during one complete turn (360°)[1] The lead for a screw thread is the axial travel for a single revolution.[2]
"Pitch is defined as the axial distance between adjacent threads on a helix or screw. In most screws, called "single start" screws, which have a single helical thread along their length, the lead and pitch are equal. They only differ in "multiple start" screws, which have several intertwined threads. In these screws, the lead is equal to the pitch multiplied by the number of "starts".
Lead angle is the angle between the helix and a plane of rotation. It is the complement of the helix angle, and is used for convenience in worms and hobs. It is understood to be at the standard pitch diameter unless otherwise specified."
The word lead could be used loosely I suppose, as when a man leads a horse, but in a mechanical sense it should be a specified distance moved per a specified rotation. That's not foolishness, that's a real definition.
When one is discussing nomenclature under the banner of "Everything you need to know" it doesn't seem right to me to call it a leadscrew when you don't require a specific movement from a specified rotation in degrees or divisions.
I didn't see the two manufactiurers you brought up, but I expect they were using the "Lead a horse" meaning. All of the one's I looked up called simply a "Screw" or a "Clamp screw" or "Main screw".
This company makes screws for woodworking vises;
http://www.axminster.co.uk/benches-vices-storage/vices/vice-screws "Vise screw".
http://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-part/51871/0247/0752000/00042287/00001.html simply "Screw".
Actually just stating the name as "screw" alone makes best sense to me, and any other screws would have a specific additional word added, as "Jaw screw" for instance.
https://www.viseparts.com/ These people are in the business of making and selling vise parts, they call the screw a "spindle". Ok.
http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/machinery-tools-supplies/vises-guide
Manufacturers guide calls it a "screw assembly". Again, I agree with that.
You said Yost calls it a leadscrew, but here they just call it a "screw".
http://www.yostvises.com/replacement-parts/screw-nut-kit.html I suspect the parts department has the better name.
Ok, Reed vise parts?
http://www.reedmfgco.com/en/products/product-parts-library/vises/machinists-vises/ "Handle and screw" I like that too.
This could go on and on, the point here I'm trying (Hard) to make is that if we have a thread called everything you need to know about vises a little care should be taken to make sure we are using sensible engineering terms.
It's a fact that a man can walk a horse with long steps or short, and a vise screw could have varying lead (Threads per inch) and still be useable if the nut's threads were loose enough. But a true leadscrew in a machine shop must move a carefully specified distance every revolution, because if it didn't the screws being made on that machine would not be accurate.
This rapid prototype PDF spec. calls it a "Vise screw", hmmm, you know, that seems like a very good and fitting term.
http://www.ijaiem.org/Volume4Issue7/IJAIEM-2015-07-20-23.pdf
"(on a lathe) a rotating horizontal screw for moving the tool carriage along the work at a constant rate.
The dial, therefore, would enable the carriage to be engaged with the lead-screw at points equal to a travel of one-half inch. "
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lead-screw
Wikipedia uses a wider definition;
"A leadscrew (or lead screw), also known as a power screw[1] or translation screw,[2] is a screw used as a linkage in a machine, to translate turning motion into linear motion." (I protest, that should be a power screw of a slide screw, which would fit a vise application)
However, Wikipedia engineering gets it right;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_(engineering)
"Lead is the axial advance of a helix or screw during one complete turn (360°)[1] The lead for a screw thread is the axial travel for a single revolution.[2]
"Pitch is defined as the axial distance between adjacent threads on a helix or screw. In most screws, called "single start" screws, which have a single helical thread along their length, the lead and pitch are equal. They only differ in "multiple start" screws, which have several intertwined threads. In these screws, the lead is equal to the pitch multiplied by the number of "starts".
Lead angle is the angle between the helix and a plane of rotation. It is the complement of the helix angle, and is used for convenience in worms and hobs. It is understood to be at the standard pitch diameter unless otherwise specified."
The word lead could be used loosely I suppose, as when a man leads a horse, but in a mechanical sense it should be a specified distance moved per a specified rotation. That's not foolishness, that's a real definition.
When one is discussing nomenclature under the banner of "Everything you need to know" it doesn't seem right to me to call it a leadscrew when you don't require a specific movement from a specified rotation in degrees or divisions.
I didn't see the two manufactiurers you brought up, but I expect they were using the "Lead a horse" meaning. All of the one's I looked up called simply a "Screw" or a "Clamp screw" or "Main screw".
This company makes screws for woodworking vises;
http://www.axminster.co.uk/benches-vices-storage/vices/vice-screws "Vise screw".
http://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-part/51871/0247/0752000/00042287/00001.html simply "Screw".
Actually just stating the name as "screw" alone makes best sense to me, and any other screws would have a specific additional word added, as "Jaw screw" for instance.
https://www.viseparts.com/ These people are in the business of making and selling vise parts, they call the screw a "spindle". Ok.
http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/machinery-tools-supplies/vises-guide
Manufacturers guide calls it a "screw assembly". Again, I agree with that.
You said Yost calls it a leadscrew, but here they just call it a "screw".
http://www.yostvises.com/replacement-parts/screw-nut-kit.html I suspect the parts department has the better name.
Ok, Reed vise parts?
http://www.reedmfgco.com/en/products/product-parts-library/vises/machinists-vises/ "Handle and screw" I like that too.
This could go on and on, the point here I'm trying (Hard) to make is that if we have a thread called everything you need to know about vises a little care should be taken to make sure we are using sensible engineering terms.
It's a fact that a man can walk a horse with long steps or short, and a vise screw could have varying lead (Threads per inch) and still be useable if the nut's threads were loose enough. But a true leadscrew in a machine shop must move a carefully specified distance every revolution, because if it didn't the screws being made on that machine would not be accurate.
This rapid prototype PDF spec. calls it a "Vise screw", hmmm, you know, that seems like a very good and fitting term.
http://www.ijaiem.org/Volume4Issue7/IJAIEM-2015-07-20-23.pdf
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
Through the bench swivel vise, Early 1900's, possibly late 1800's. These were before the "new" swivel on the base designs came to be popular.
It's missing the large wing nut to tighten it. The spreader washer for under the bench seems to be there between the plate and he vise base.
That plate site on top of the bench, and likely has a couple of counter sunk holes for wood screws to keep it from rotating. The notches in the plate appear to be setup for 45 deg stops. There will be 1 or 2 nubs on the base of the vise that fit those notches.
I've got nothing on a 402 but if you get it someone in the vise thread is likely to have a pf of an ad with jaw size and weight.
Lastly, getting pedantic on the terminology isn't likely to get you more than finger exercise on GJ.
wrenchguy
Well-known member
Lastly, getting pedantic on the terminology isn't likely to get you more than finger exercise on GJ.
this.
Fretters
Well-known member
Need I say more. You typed that yourself, so I suppose you'll argue against your own definition now. Btw, it's leadscrew, not lead. Lead alone makes no reference to a screw being involved.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
BTW PartsP, if you Google "Bench vise lead screw" or "Bench vise leadscrew" and hit images, it's pretty clear its in common use. It's like people calling facial tissues "Kleenex" or a photo copy a "Xerox" copy. both of the latter are a specific thing, the former the "generic" term, and in this case its not even generic. You were quoted two companies that usethe term leadscrew... other companies use other terms, so the "experts" don't agree.
I'm not in complete disagreement with you; I don't call them leadscrews either, but there is no consensus.
Heck, we can't get our buddies across the pond to spell vise correctly! They insist on spelling it exactly like another word that means "immoral or wicked behavior."! (first definition that popped up!)
I'm not in complete disagreement with you; I don't call them leadscrews either, but there is no consensus.
Heck, we can't get our buddies across the pond to spell vise correctly! They insist on spelling it exactly like another word that means "immoral or wicked behavior."! (first definition that popped up!)
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Off-Street Parking
Well-known member
Off-Street Parking
Well-known member
Perhaps partially answering my own question... I found a thread with pictures of a similar vise, but without the rotating base, saying the style was manufactured by "Phase II" or "Bison", and it was a vise for a mill.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...ld-mill-vise-restoration-manufacturer-201444/
Would one of these have any practical applications on a bench? (ie: not bolted to a mill?)
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...ld-mill-vise-restoration-manufacturer-201444/
Would one of these have any practical applications on a bench? (ie: not bolted to a mill?)
Outlawmws
Well-known member
A small to medium size mil vise can be great on a drill press, but minimal practicality on a std work bench if you have a fairly narrow "island" bench maybe.. The issue IMO is the jaws are away from the operator (if you keep the crank handy to the bench edge..) so your reaching over the vise to work.
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Off-Street Parking
Well-known member
That makes sense, thanks.
Hi guys, recently just cleaned up the inside of a new wilton trademen.
But I was wondering when in actual use, would the dynamic jaw just suddenly fall off if you keep opening the screw, or is there some kind of maximum marker or something to stop it, which I didn't see. If not how do you know if you have opened to the point of almost coming off?
But I was wondering when in actual use, would the dynamic jaw just suddenly fall off if you keep opening the screw, or is there some kind of maximum marker or something to stop it, which I didn't see. If not how do you know if you have opened to the point of almost coming off?
You will run out of thread before the jaw comes out. Try it yourself on your vise---you should have a few inches left before it slips completely out.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
PO: yes EX is correct that you still have a little slide in the vise after the screw has disengaged, but it isn't much so you'll want to have a good grip on it to pull it out so you don't drop it. Especially on the bigger Wiltons and vises because the dynamic can weigh 50 to 100 pounds give or take. most vises i know of the dynamic jaw can just screw out all the way. there might be a few besides Record (English vice) that does have a stop and probably because some of them have a quick release type of action.
partsproduction
Well-known member
Hey guys, right at the start of this long thread it was mentioned that the little "anvil" spot at the back of some vise bases is not for using as an anvil. So, naturally, I have to ask, what is it for?
I just got my FPU vise, very nice, in NOS condition. The anvil is on the movable jaw. heh heh.
I just got my FPU vise, very nice, in NOS condition. The anvil is on the movable jaw. heh heh.
I believe this is because anvils should be forged or hardened.
The typical vise is just cast iron. So beside straightening a nail or aluminum strip , you may chip, indent the anvil or even crack the vise.
partsproduction
Well-known member
Ah, good reason. It does seem odd that I've been involved with vises for most of my 66 years and just learned that. But perhaps I'd have learned it earlier had I used the little anvil surfaces more.
bubinga
Well-known member
I have used the Asheville area on vices for light things but never really wearing on it of course
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ianthegreat
Member
Vice that was left to me by previous homeowner. Not sure of the quality. Started a garage remodel and want this guy mounted. Started degunking it.. stumbled across this thread and will look into a better restoration/clean up method.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Well, your PO left you a honey of a vise. Reeds like that are among the best.
dutchgray
Well-known member
I think the vice companies intended them to be used so the vice would eventually break and then you would have to buy another, if they are not abused a good vice just doesn't wear out, one could last 50 years of constant daily use easily if kept clean and oiled.
I keep a little magnetic parts tray on there. Lets me keep little snap rings, screws or roll pins from running off when taking stuff apart.
Also helps catch about 1/3 of the shavings I make whenever I have to drill out something....
whether I want it to or not!Outlawmws
Well-known member
I don't think they ever envisioned it being used for forging metal. Flattening soft metal, straightening a nail and the like and probably that cutter for cutting nails shorter. About all it could manage...
There is however, nothing made that a ham fisted maroon can't abuse, and they do...
Craptain
Well-known member
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Diyer, post some pics, but that sounds like a Parker Big Bear (only I thought the only came with 5" wide jaws, - or are you talking it's opening? Same design of the vise, but it came with an anvil on the back side.
The 5" would weigh 102 lbs.
The 5" would weigh 102 lbs.
Iloveabigvice
New member
- Joined
- May 21, 2016
- Messages
- 4
Recently purchased a Parker 436A, its missing a block of some sort that holds the part the lead screw travels through. Anyone have a parts breakdown and/or history of it. It weighs in at 170 lbs.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
These vises are cast, not forged and the letters were added to the wood patterns, so not uncommon for a letter to fall off. We have even seen misspellings, probably because two letters fell of and were replaced in the wrong order.
The thing that is trowing me off is the size vs. you mentioning it has the anvil. Please take some pictures and post them so we can see what we are trying to ID.
is the "anvil" in an anvil shape, or just a back side shelf? (common to most Parker's and many other vises)
The thing that is trowing me off is the size vs. you mentioning it has the anvil. Please take some pictures and post them so we can see what we are trying to ID.
is the "anvil" in an anvil shape, or just a back side shelf? (common to most Parker's and many other vises)
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Also, getting back to your other post, Many of the Parkers had a steel rod cast in the length of the slide (you can often see the bar at the end of the slide) The Semi Steel marking indicates yours has this.
Round slide, or rectangular, both can be a machinist vise.
Round slide, or rectangular, both can be a machinist vise.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Yeah a Parker with an anvil on the back would be the Big Bear like this:
a Parker like you are now describing is more like this:
a Parker like you are now describing is more like this:
here's my oddball vise I just finished sprucing up. it's a reed 103 1/2 s. never seen one like it and I'm under the impression that all 100 series reeds were fixed base, the 200 were swivel. just picked this up at an auction last week. has smooth tool steel jaws and a pretty tight screw. it was missing the pivot bolt and one of the swivel lock assemblies but I was able to re-create those easily enough. overall I got a VERY usable, quality vice and now it looks good as well.
-Scott
-Scott
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a Parker like you are now describing is more like this:
That is close but the jaw area looks different. The dynamic jaw on the greyish one looks wider at the bottom, and the dynamic jaw on the red vise looks taller and not as wide on the bottom, as well as a more distinct squareish bottom front lip: Here are the pics:
View media item 61120
View media item 61119
Ok, I supplied all the info there is to write and photo. So, what is it? . . . what can you tell me? Cant find anything on a 79 1/2 X.
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tool_scrounge
Well-known member
I once looked t buying a Reed 108 that had a swivel base as shown in the attached photo. 100 series vises do appear to exist with swivel bases.
