Excavator and hard Texas ground
- Thread starter 930dreamer
- Start date
LeeG
Well-known member
That reminds me of the caliche we have here in AZ when I worked on a pipeline crew. A big Case backhoe had problems with it although the big excavator didn't. If we had to "hand dig", it usually involved jackhammers.
cvairwerks
Well-known member
Rock trencher.....
mcbane
Well-known member
If you can break it with a sledgehammer or dig it with a hand held breaker, something is wrong with the excavator or you are using the wrong bucket or digging technique.
In really hard soil or weathered rock, you want a narrower toothed bucket and rather than try to grab a full scoop, you want to use the teeth as if they were the blade of a wood plane. Taking light cuts at maybe a 20 degree angle tooth vs ground, even a mini excavator can go through some awfully hard material.
I usually rent a mini ex with a 12” and a 18” bucket, both with teeth. My soil is way too hard and rocky for the 24” toothless bucket to gum its way through.
In really hard soil or weathered rock, you want a narrower toothed bucket and rather than try to grab a full scoop, you want to use the teeth as if they were the blade of a wood plane. Taking light cuts at maybe a 20 degree angle tooth vs ground, even a mini excavator can go through some awfully hard material.
I usually rent a mini ex with a 12” and a 18” bucket, both with teeth. My soil is way too hard and rocky for the 24” toothless bucket to gum its way through.
bigdav160
Well-known member
Texas hard pan can be tough.
I try to use the teeth to break it up before trying to scrape or pull a layer up.
I try to use the teeth to break it up before trying to scrape or pull a layer up.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Gray clay. Hard as ****. Get a bigger machine with a narrower bucket or a frost tooth.
OP
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Wow, thats a micro excavator.
I rented a mini excavator for my shop service and ran out of time, mostly due to time management but I was disappointed with how slow it was. In the end I dug both ends where I needed room and came back with a trencher. Next time I will get a bigger machine.
OP
Rental place was adamant about this was to be used for dirt digging only, don't think I can get any other attachments on a Sunday.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
I have had issues in gray clay with narrow bucket and a E35 bobcat. And it wasn't dried out either. I won't rent smaller than an E42 now.
I had a problem doing a ditch for a friends electrical service line to his shop. My BX-23 couldn’t touch it. We rented a bigger excavator with a 12” bucket and it had a difficult time as well. Once I got the hole long enough I reversed the machine putting it over the trench. I had better success breaking the dirt into the open hole as opposed to trying to cut into the fresh soil. We got it done but it took a while.
OP
At Home Depot for a demo hammer.
jack stand
Well-known member
Not being familiar with your ground.... would a ditch which will the bullet style carbides do it? Might inquire with the rental center.
OP
Note to self "Don't set the demo hammer into the ground so far you can't get it out".
dcs13
Well-known member
Hire a rock saw..
msharley
Well-known member
Gray Clay! Oh joy!
rayra
Well-known member
Welcome to the western 2/3 of TX.
Might need a trencher wheel with carbide teeth, but it will cost you.
Might need a trencher wheel with carbide teeth, but it will cost you.
nadogail
Well-known member
Sounds like a boy was sent to do a Man's job.
OP
dcg9381
Well-known member
Texas here. Same issue where I am. Anywhere from 6" - 18" of actual soil and then it's largely limestone. You CAN break it with a jackhammer, but I've had a contractor out with a 310L Backhoe and a 24" bucket who said "no" to trenching for us. You either get a rock hammer in there, then dig it out with bucket, or you get a rock saw - which is the way to do any major trenching around here.
When I rent equipment, I get the smallest tooth bucket that I can find. Even doing it that way, there are some "shelfs" of rock that you can't get under...
This is a 2" water line that I "sleeved" in gray electrical PVC in certain spots. Rock saw for a trench is the only way to do it here...
When I rent equipment, I get the smallest tooth bucket that I can find. Even doing it that way, there are some "shelfs" of rock that you can't get under...
This is a 2" water line that I "sleeved" in gray electrical PVC in certain spots. Rock saw for a trench is the only way to do it here...
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My Old Tools
Well-known member
When I put in a 1/2 mile of water line, I rented the biggest 4 wheel drive ride on trencher they had. When I hit the gray clay on the 4th of July I was in the lowest gear and it was jerking chunks out of the ground the size of basketballs.
dcg9381
Well-known member
The rock saw I used had a "creep" dial, literally you could set it to do a few inches every few minutes. Still a beat down to ride on.
Renting one 2-3x more expensive than a trencher. But there is no way you could get a trencher here to do a 300' run through huge sheets of underground limestone.
My Old Tools
Well-known member
I believe you. That clay was like a terracotta pot, but nothing like limestone. Where we are now is iron ore country, a whole different problem.
rayra
Well-known member
crazy andrew camarata has a youtube vid of his buying such a machine and letting it creep a trench thru his shale moutainside, running with him not even on it.
/he's living the dream of any kid that played with Tonka toys.
OP
roc_on_the_rocks
Well-known member
Yeah, left too long in the dryer.
TractorJeff
Well-known member
FWIW: Up here when I go to borrow a little machine like that. I ask if the "Shovel" is available? It isn't really any more powerful than a good man on a shovel. BUT! I am NOT a good man on a shovel, so I will take the powered "Shovel" any day! LOL!
OP
Yes size does matter!
rancherbill
Well-known member
Sounds like a good foundation to me.
OP
When I dug up the old water line I didn't hit any ground like this. Probably why the old wire was just sitting above ground, checking off another project on the white board. I think the jack hammer weighs more than I do.