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Extinct hand tool brands ranking?

rust in the eye

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Alloy artifacts has a wealth of information about origin and evolution of the various companies but I'm curious to know how various brands were regarded in their day.
For instance a few old brands in a giant lot of mostly **** I foolishly bought recently are Penens, Herbrand, Fairmount, Kraeuter, Tru-Craft and Tru-Fit which I seldom see mentioned. More known ones are Husky(vintage), Plomb, Indestro, Thorsen and New Britain.
 
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four.cycle

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Not sure I understand your question...
Are you asking how the brands (which no longer exist) were viewed by the buying public in respect to product quality?
Part of what influences "known" or "unknown" is geographic location.
Some areas of the country hardly ever see second-hand Plomb. Some areas of the county hardly ever see second-hand Indestro (discussed in the Indestro thread.) Those are conditions brought about based on what degree of market penetration a manufacturer had in a given area.
"Truecraft" was originally a U.S. made product until the company was purchased by the Daido Corporation (Japan) in the 1960s.
"Tru-Fit" was made by Lectrolite Corp. of Defiance, Ohio.
"Penens" was an independent manufacturer until it was absorbed in to "The Pendleton Group" along with Plomb.
 
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rust in the eye

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Not sure I understand your question...
Are you asking how the brands (which no longer exist) were viewed by the buying public in respect to product quality?
Part of what influences "known" or "unknown" is geographic location.
Some areas of the country hardly ever see second-hand Plomb. Some areas of the county hardly ever see second-hand Indestro (discussed in the Indestro thread.) Those are conditions brought about based on what degree of market penetration a manufacturer had in a given area.
"Truecraft" was originally a U.S. made product until the company was purchased by the Daido Corporation (Japan) in the 1960s.
"Tru-Fit" was made by Lectrolite Corp. of Defiance, Ohio.
"Penens" was an independent manufacturer until it was absorbed in to "The Pendleton Group" along with Plomb.

Yes, quality wise. These and others.
Good point about location.
 

soundjunky

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I'll weigh in - even though I am no expert;
The problem with rating any "name brand" tools is that over time, quality changed when manufacturing moved, or industry required changed to remain competitive.

Taking brands like 'Craftsman' as an example (albeit a poor one in this thread), over time manufacturing moved from one manufacturer to another, and quality did change with time...
Then there's the different lines within any manufacturers tool - often you can find examples of quality differing greatly while still having the same name on the tool...

I have enjoyed threads on this forum and originally found this place after searching brand names I was unfamiliar with.
With the exception of brands like 'Snap-On', I think it's safe to say that there is a direct correlation of "older = better".
I quite like vintage Herbrand (saying this because I read your post), Eastco, Craftsman (older = better)...

My tool "collection" went a little off the rails when I started trying to fill all the spots in my socket organizers - I have a list of preference for my sockets... some of the sockets I have there ARE these other brands...
 

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kctgb

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I bought a set of metric USA Thorsen wrenches 48 years ago when I was 12. I still have them and use them every day. My grandfather always talked about how good Thorsen wrenches held up on his commercial fishing boats. I believe Thorsen was started in 1927 by two men. They used the name “Thorsen” because it’s a Swedish name and the steel from Sweden was exceptionally good for making tools. The company was bought and sold a number of times and eventually dissolved. My old wrenches have taken a beating and still work. I am attached to those old wrenches, I mowed lawns for a $1.50 a lawn for over a month to pay for those wrenches.
 

Cruzan80

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Kraeuter (at least for sockets/ratchets/wrenches) was re-branded SK, so fairly well established quality.
 

cody1325

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In terms of old brands that ain't Craftsman, my favorites are Blackhawk--got started on making my garage box 100% Blackhawk wrenches in SAE (dunno if they made metric), and the Action (budget Thorsen) wrenches are joining the basement box. Granddad bought the bulk of his tools in the '60s and '70s, and they're still going strong in my possession. I like the Action and Thorsen wrenches because they're not highly polished.

I really find it hard to admit that SK is a dead brand, but ever since the Great Star buyout, they've gone way downhill.
 

KFBR392

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I can chime in on some 50s-70s era power tools I have experience with. Wizard/Western Auto power tools are pretty low quality. Those were very much built to meet a specific price point. I've restored a couple of them with the intention of using them, but found after getting them cleaned up that the overall poor tolerances and crappy bronze bushings (rather than ball bearings) would make them generally a pain in the *** to use and maintain.

The vintage power tools I've restored that are of really high quality are from Thor and Sioux. Those were absurdly high quality pieces of equipment in their day, and with new bearings and fresh grease, are very good performers even today. The right angle drill in particular is a really, really useful form factor that I'd recommend to anyone who wants an excuse to buy another drill.
 

four.cycle

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RE: (my question) "Are you asking how the brands (which no longer exist) were viewed by the buying public in respect to product quality?"
RE: (RiE's answer) "Yes, quality wise. These and others."

First, the question is too broad to accurately answer, and the reality is that it's impossible for any one person to answer it objectively. NOBODY ever, at any time during world history, used every brand of tool available on the market.
Ergo: it's only possible to offer subjective opinions on those brands one has actually used or owned.

I read through the entire thread @Private Lugnutz cited above, so I'll address those two brands first:

I can only give you a partial answer, and only in respect to 1/4" drive socket sets, which is what my main "collecting" focus was.
I never owned any Bonney, so I cannot speak to that.
I only owned one Blackhawk set, which is now in the possession of @Private Lugnutz. I would easily put those lovely Blackhawk sockets on a par level with any other top-tier brand, including Snap-on, which I think most of us would concede is an industry leader.

Herbrand product produced after the Triangle acquisition is simply trash. Comparable to contemporaneous imports from Taiwan and Hong Kong. (@twertsy insists Triangle was outsourcing from Asia, and the product quality supports that claim.)
I only owned a few pieces of earlier Herbrand and it was pretty good stuff.

Duro-Chrome and Indestro don't get nearly the respect they deserve. Their sockets and drive tools were as good as any others out there - hands down. The Odlum-Hosford patent (2686582) RHFT is arguably one of the better ratchet designs of the 20th century.

Thorsen made great product early on, which is how they developed the reputation they did. Unfortunately their product quality started on a downhill slide somewhere in the 1960s and they got sloppy. Chrome issues were a big problem. Off-center broaching on sockets and sloppily finished pieces became more common on later product. (Flash not buzzed off wrenches, etc.)

Late production Challenger stuff was amazingly nice. Comparable to contemporaneous Proto. Really nicely finished. I had a huge set of Challenger 1/4" and 3/8" drive stuff and sold it way too cheap.

Penens / Speedmaster = Passable quality, not top-shelf.

Walden: older stuff was much more carefully made. Vintage black-finish sets are nicely finished. Later chrome stuff looks cheap and the drive tools are clunky - it appears there was no incentive to "improve" or "innovate" other than the useless "George Jetson" handle design on one of their ratchets.

Proto I put on top of the heap - the sockets and drive tools are first-rate. They were late in getting into the "RHFT" game on ratchets, but their newer ratchet models are fabulous.

The S-K I had was mostly 1960s production stuff and was nicely finished. The earlier (cross-hatch knurled) product seemed to reflect more care in fit and finish than the later production product. I had at least a couple dozen 1/4" drive S-K sets, and off-center broaching and weird flaws in plating seemed to be more prevalent on the later-production (Schiller Park) stuff, ALTHOUGH: the NOS 3/8" drive set that I sent to @Kaervak for a "Secret Santa" deal was first rate - absolutely flawless stuff.

New Britain product from the 1950s and 1960s. Nicely finished sockets. The later Kilness-patent RHFT ratchets are amazing little pieces of machinery. Those of you seeking that Holy Grail of "low backdrag" should find yourself a copy of a late-production NB (or Blackhawk) Kilness-design RHFT and try it out.)

All of the EASCO product I've had was good stuff, but their ratchets left much to be desired: poorly balanced, clunky, outdated designs.
I'm still trying to unload an EASCO-made "K-D" set here.

Too many other brands... I can't even remember all of them I've had here.

Again, my lousy opinions here are only in regard to sockets and drive tools, NOT wrenches. And like The Dude said, it's just my opinion, man.
 

kctgb

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RE: (my question) "Are you asking how the brands (which no longer exist) were viewed by the buying public in respect to product quality?"
RE: (RiE's answer) "Yes, quality wise. These and others."

First, the question is too broad to accurately answer, and the reality is that it's impossible for any one person to answer it objectively. NOBODY ever, at any time during world history, used every brand of tool available on the market.
Ergo: it's only possible to offer subjective opinions on those brands one has actually used or owned.

I read through the entire thread @Private Lugnutz cited above, so I'll address those two brands first:

I can only give you a partial answer, and only in respect to 1/4" drive socket sets, which is what my main "collecting" focus was.
I never owned any Bonney, so I cannot speak to that.
I only owned one Blackhawk set, which is now in the possession of @Private Lugnutz. I would easily put those lovely Blackhawk sockets on a par level with any other top-tier brand, including Snap-on, which I think most of us would concede is an industry leader.

Herbrand product produced after the Triangle acquisition is simply trash. Comparable to contemporaneous imports from Taiwan and Hong Kong. (@twertsy insists Triangle was outsourcing from Asia, and the product quality supports that claim.)
I only owned a few pieces of earlier Herbrand and it was pretty good stuff.

Duro-Chrome and Indestro don't get nearly the respect they deserve. Their sockets and drive tools were as good as any others out there - hands down. The Odlum-Hosford patent (2686582) RHFT is arguably one of the better ratchet designs of the 20th century.

Thorsen made great product early on, which is how they developed the reputation they did. Unfortunately their product quality started on a downhill slide somewhere in the 1960s and they got sloppy. Chrome issues were a big problem. Off-center broaching on sockets and sloppily finished pieces became more common on later product. (Flash not buzzed off wrenches, etc.)

Late production Challenger stuff was amazingly nice. Comparable to contemporaneous Proto. Really nicely finished. I had a huge set of Challenger 1/4" and 3/8" drive stuff and sold it way too cheap.

Penens / Speedmaster = Passable quality, not top-shelf.

Walden: older stuff was much more carefully made. Vintage black-finish sets are nicely finished. Later chrome stuff looks cheap and the drive tools are clunky - it appears there was no incentive to "improve" or "innovate" other than the useless "George Jetson" handle design on one of their ratchets.

Proto I put on top of the heap - the sockets and drive tools are first-rate. They were late in getting into the "RHFT" game on ratchets, but their newer ratchet models are fabulous.

The S-K I had was mostly 1960s production stuff and was nicely finished. The earlier (cross-hatch knurled) product seemed to reflect more care in fit and finish than the later production product. I had at least a couple dozen 1/4" drive S-K sets, and off-center broaching and weird flaws in plating seemed to be more prevalent on the later-production (Schiller Park) stuff, ALTHOUGH: the NOS 3/8" drive set that I sent to @Kaervak for a "Secret Santa" deal was first rate - absolutely flawless stuff.

New Britain product from the 1950s and 1960s. Nicely finished sockets. The later Kilness-patent RHFT ratchets are amazing little pieces of machinery. Those of you seeking that Holy Grail of "low backdrag" should find yourself a copy of a late-production NB (or Blackhawk) Kilness-design RHFT and try it out.)

All of the EASCO product I've had was good stuff, but their ratchets left much to be desired: poorly balanced, clunky, outdated designs.
I'm still trying to unload an EASCO-made "K-D" set here.

Too many other brands... I can't even remember all of them I've had here.

Again, my lousy opinions here are only in regard to sockets and drive tools, NOT wrenches. And like The Dude said, it's just my opinion, man.
I bought my Thorsen wrench set in the 70’s. The fit on fasteners is outstanding. The chrome is still very good on my wrenches after years of hard use. In the 80’s I believe things started going down hill for Thorsen when they were bought by an investment company. They had a unique ratchet that worked well that I haven’t seen in over 40 years. I’ve seen the ratchet on eBay, never seen one in person.
 

four.cycle

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^ If you're referring to the model 89J - the one that had the "ejection button" - they're found on ebay. I had a couple of them here but I think they've both sold.
Yes, Thorsen WAS making a good product, but at some point things started going downhill. Hard to put a finger on the date - was it before or after they moved to Dallas?
 

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kctgb

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^ If you're referring to the model 89J - the one that had the "ejection button" - they're found on ebay. I had a couple of them here but I think they've both sold.
Yes, Thorsen WAS making a good product, but at some point things started going downhill. Hard to put a finger on the date - was it before or after they moved to Dallas?
They made a ratchet that was open around the edge of the head, you flipped a lever to reverse the ratchet. My grandfather had them on his commercial fishing boats. That was a very long time ago.
 

kctgb

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^ If you're referring to the model 89J - the one that had the "ejection button" - they're found on ebay. I had a couple of them here but I think they've both sold.
Yes, Thorsen WAS making a good product, but at some point things started going downhill. Hard to put a finger on the date - was it before or after they moved to Dallas?
This is what I was talking about.
 

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four.cycle

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That was their model 77 (1/2" drive) 77J (3/8") or 77M (1/4") open-gear model. Discontinued when they went to the "closed head" design.
Later REINTRODUCED by the Wright Tool Company of Barberton, Ohio (model 4480) for "Desert Storm" because NO RHFT ratchet on the market would hold up under such dusty conditions.
Pretty sure I sold all the 77's too... they also made a 77NR (long-handled model) in 1/2" drive.
 
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rust in the eye

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@ four.cycle
Understood that quality will always be subjective based on individuals and useage/expectations.
Examples of most of the mentioned brands have made their way to me via the purchases of a few tool boxes with contents. While the vast majority of these often already picked over buys contained mostly scrap steel I've held all the US brands that were in useable condition merely because they were US brands I've heard mentioned here. Now I know them to be respectable enough to warrant keeping.
Not sure they'll see service again but as long as room allows they have a home in my tool box.
 

username2

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Not to be 'that guy', but has anyone ever measured the accuracy of various brands of socket openings, strength of materials, strength of ratchets on this older stuff?
 

kctgb

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Not to be 'that guy', but has anyone ever measured the accuracy of various brands of socket openings, strength of materials, strength of ratchets on this older stuff?
Is the test of time a measurement of strength? I have used my old Thorsen wrenches hard for 48 years and they still are good working wrenches.
 

four.cycle

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Is the test of time a measurement of strength? I have used my old Thorsen wrenches hard for 48 years and they still are good working wrenches
The simple fact that so many "legacy" brands still show up on ebay - in perfectly usable condition - is a testament to the product quality.

Not to be 'that guy', but has anyone ever measured the accuracy of various brands of socket openings, strength of materials, strength of ratchets on this older stuff?
Some manufacturers went to the trouble to print charts in their catalogs which showed the dimensions of socket openings, length of sockets, etc. I believe "Tekton" still does in the current era.
The short answer would be no: the "Project Farm" guy only focuses on brands which are currently available on the market. The "tester" community on YouTube would be wasting their time analyzing older brands that are no longer produced.
 

Kaervak

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The S-K I had was mostly 1960s production stuff and was nicely finished. The earlier (cross-hatch knurled) product seemed to reflect more care in fit and finish than the later production product. I had at least a couple dozen 1/4" drive S-K sets, and off-center broaching and weird flaws in plating seemed to be more prevalent on the later-production (Schiller Park) stuff, ALTHOUGH: the NOS 3/8" drive set that I sent to @Kaervak for a "Secret Santa" deal was first rate - absolutely flawless stuff.

And so it shall remain as that set is too nice to actually use. I've always liked SK's chrome, just something about it that makes it look so good.


As for the question at hand, Armstrong (the proper USA stuff) doesn't seem to get much mention around here. Their MAXX ratchets are quite nice. Shame that the brand is no more.
 
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four.cycle

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^ You're kidding, right? That's a nice user set!

RE: Armstrong:
I have ONE Armstrong 1/4" drive set, which I believe was manufactured in the 1970s. Absolutely flawless. The sockets are like jewelry.
The ratchet is a model NM91, which looks kinda-sorta like a model 4749 Proto, but the action is much smoother.
The tiny "flare nut" wrench that came in that kit always makes me laugh when the Snap-on fanboys start raving about "Snap-on is the only flare-nut wrench to use." :lol:
 

Jgaz

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Agree on Armstrong.
My shallow impact sockets, both std. and metric, are Armstrong.
Used daily, professionally, for almost 20 years. These sockets held up as well as my deep Snap-on impact sockets.

I also had a 10mm thru 24mm set of polished Armstrong combination wrenches.
I used the 22 and 24mm wrenches daily doing dozens of alignments a week for over 8 years.
Zero complaints.
 

BlakeTheCarGuy

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All the vintage brands I’ve used have been pretty good. Most of the time I don’t use them though because they are so nice I just don’t want to damage or break them. I’ve used a bit of everything like P&C, Duro-Indestro, Mustang, Wizard, Bonney, Walden, Thorsen and really early Craftsman too. At Christmas time four.cycle sent me some really nice shiny Duro-Indestro offset wrenches and I love those things they feel so smooth.

I wish all these brands still existed and could be bought at stores so I would not have to rely on tool trucks and online or pawn shops.
 

Boogerman

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Consistently over time from best down, (didn't cheapen their brand before they went out of business):

Bonney
Proto
P&C
Indestro and its associated brands like Wizard
Armstrong
New Britain
Herbrand
Challenger

From here on down, the list is of **** or marginal brands

Craftsman - early ones would have been right below challenger on the acceptable list, but deteriorated with time
Husky - early quite good, deteriorated with time
Thorsen - occasional good stuff, deteriorated with time
Globemaster - always cheap ****
Oxwald - worst of the worst
 

tool_scrounge

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From here on down, the list is of **** or marginal brands

Craftsman - early ones would have been right below challenger on the acceptable list, but deteriorated with time
Husky - early quite good, deteriorated with time
Thorsen - occasional good stuff, deteriorated with time
Globemaster - always cheap ****
Oxwald - worst of the worst
I would differentiate between Craftsman and the Craftsman Industrial/professional lines. The later were made by Armstrong and SK. The full polish wrenches were pretty nice.
1745682306291.png
 

Private Lugnutz

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Some manufacturers went to the trouble to print charts in their catalogs which showed the dimensions of socket openings, length of sockets, etc.
Bonney started doing it in the 50's when gov't sales were booming, articulating federal specifications.

Bonney Cat Specs Crowfoot.jpg
Made by New Britain. High quality.
Craftsman - early ones would have been right below challenger on the acceptable list, but deteriorated with time
Define "early." Long C Craftsman, from the mid 30's to the late 40's, with BE and Circle-H codes, was made by New Britain, with the same specs, construction and finish as their in-house tools, which was very high quality. Much, much higher league than later Pendleton Tool Industries Inc (i.e., Proto) Challenger. NONE BETTER, to make a pun of their branding, but their equals in that era were the highest quality.
 
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