failed inspection on new garage

[memento]

Not because of anything related to the garage. Because he walked around the house and found OTHER things about my house than don't meet code. Annoying beyond annoying.

 

[jkeyser14]

That's not how the system is supposed to work, at least in my county. They can only fail you for the work that was performed under the permit. However, once you give them access to your house they have full access and can go after you legally if they see you are doing other work without a permit (such as electrical or plumbing).

 

[Ray-CA]

How long have you been in the house and did you do any of the work that the inspector "failed?" If the work was done by a prior owner, how can you be held responsible?

Ray

 

[GarageEnvy]

Oh believe me they can and do in Fresno County. Let's see, plan check called for the removal of a shed that has been on my property since it was built in 1955. The concrete inspection gave me some grief over some existing concrete flatwork (also original construction). Roof sheathing was passed. Roof final was passed. During the frame inspection the inspector went and called a roof condition that had been passed by two others. Technically everything is fair game when they walk onto the property. In fact during construction of my attached garage I used 9' tall Tyvek as a fence to barricade the garage from the remainder of the yard to try and keep the inspectors focused on the garage. Very few inspectors left in my county do to budget constraints and lack of building activity. One apologetically said I have to find something to come back for or I could be next. I only have my final inspection left and I can't tell you how much effort I'm putting into dotting "I"s and crossing "T"s to avoid failing. All of these are in areas other than the new construction garage. Also, in my experience when you get a correction notice and call for a reinspection the inspector doesn't just check the correction item, he does a whole new inspection and can come up with something new. The real kicker is that the concrete contractor, framer and stucco contractor have all said that on a lot of the tract work the inspector pulls up and asks someone to bring him the card. He just signs off blindly without doing an actual inspection. I firmly believe it greatly depends on the county you live in, the current economic conditions, the inspector you get and his mood and work load for the day.

 

[flajim]

County budgets are getting tight everywhere. Our county is actively laying people off. I guess pro-active employees justify their need and salary, creatively if need be.

 

[redsky49]

It's a matter of liability.

Whenever I walk onto a job site, I am responsible for any code or safety issue present, because I am expected to know better, regardless of whether I was responsible for the design or construction supervision. They are calling out issues to protect themselves as much as protecting you.

It's not an easy job. You are walking a fine line between safety and construction economics, and the choices are not always clear cut.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

The real kicker is that the concrete contractor, framer and stucco contractor have all said that on a lot of the tract work the inspector pulls up and asks someone to bring him the card. He just signs off blindly without doing an actual inspection. I firmly believe it greatly depends on the county you live in, the current economic conditions, the inspector you get and his mood and work load for the day.

My last job title was "Superintendent" doing high end retail construction, large part of my job was dealing with inspectors, I could right a book on that subject.... anyhow, what you are reffering to, in the trades, is called a "drive by"....

I could go on for a while telling stories on the games "Muni's" will play, to raise revenue, like issuing a verbal "ok to occupy" and then inspector "B" shows up the next day and wrights you out a $250 fine for not having a certificate of occupancy. I had this happen at new shopping mall outside Portland, Oregon, on opening day, they wrote every store a fine, but the day before gave everyone a verbal authorization to open, because the mall itself was having its grand opening. So they wrote fines for Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and nobody got to deal with it until Monday. We where then told the head inspector for the whole mall was not authorized to give out such authorization. They even fined the mall itself, for it didnt have a COO. After the fines where paid, we had to buy temporary certificates for an additional $75 !!! Oh where does it ever end. This is so common, stuff like this is figured into the bids. They dont pull this **** on home owners, because they know they would be on the 5-O'Clock news... but its the same scum bags that are coming out to your house, just a different games.

 

[memento]

I talked to my electrician, who is also a carpenter (and a friend of mine), and he's seen it happen time and time again. He said, once they are allowed onto your property, anything is fair game. How totally lame. Now I have to go spend a bunch of extra time and money for **** I'm not ever going to need or use. One of his findings was that I needed a step outside my 2 sliding glass doors, which are sealed closed and I never use. He's been to my place a number of times already, so I know he's just LOOKING for stuff.

Next time I'm using the tyvek fence idea.

 

[tcianci]

Wow, I'm a remodeler in MA and have never had a problem with an inspector looking at existing stuff that I had nothing to do with. Just this week I had an inspection on a bathroom remodel, the back stairs to the house were 4 risers..3 were about 7 1/2 to 8 inches, the last riser was 3 inches. Clearly not to code and very tricky to navigate in actual use. The inspector saw the stairs when he arrived and said woah!, these things aren't to code. But thats all there was of it. Maybe he will take it up with the home owner, maybe not. It didn't affect anything going on with my project. I have seen the same thing several times over the years. Often, there is need to reconstruct a detail exactly as it was when it was first constructed otherwise it would have to be brought into conformance with current codes. The term they use is "existing, non-conforming" meaning Since it was already there, I can fix or rebuild it without having to make it conform to current code.

 

[Art From De Leon]

I'll bet he was looking for you to 'make an offer' to get him back to the original inspection area.

 

[nate379]

Sounds like a nightmare.

None of that headache here thankfully!

I need to become a home inspector though. Guy I hired cost $300. We pop the breaker panel and I'm like ok, aluminum feeder, No-Ox paste... ok that's good, but wait... it's #4 wire for 125 amps... uh....

He asks, what do you mean aluminum?? I never saw that before. (So what the hell do you look for, there are a few doors and a working toilet?? Alumin main very common!)



I ended up getting it torn out and replaced under warranty.

 

[Bull]

This encourages me. Otherwise, what these other guys are saying is scary.

I live in an old house. If I take a permit out to have a pellet stove put in, for example, and the inspector sees pre-existing stuff they don't like in the basement or whatever, I'd hate to think they could start causing me legal and financial nightmares. That would be stressful to the max.

Wow, I'm a remodeler in MA and have never had a problem with an inspector looking at existing stuff that I had nothing to do with. Just this week I had an inspection on a bathroom remodel, the back stairs to the house were 4 risers..3 were about 7 1/2 to 8 inches, the last riser was 3 inches. Clearly not to code and very tricky to navigate in actual use. The inspector saw the stairs when he arrived and said woah!, these things aren't to code. But thats all there was of it. Maybe he will take it up with the home owner, maybe not. It didn't affect anything going on with my project. I have seen the same thing several times over the years. Often, there is need to reconstruct a detail exactly as it was when it was first constructed otherwise it would have to be brought into conformance with current codes. The term they use is "existing, non-conforming" meaning Since it was already there, I can fix or rebuild it without having to make it conform to current code.

 

[JSBriggs]

It's a matter of liability.

Whenever I walk onto a job site, I am responsible for any code or safety issue present, because I am expected to know better, regardless of whether I was responsible for the design or construction supervision. They are calling out issues to protect themselves as much as protecting you.

It's not an easy job. You are walking a fine line between safety and construction economics, and the choices are not always clear cut.

I beg to differ. The county is never on the hook. The contractor and the homeowner bear the risk. If the roof leaks or is improperly ventilated, do you think the county will be responsible for the repair? What if the flat work slopes to the building and it floods at the first good rain? The county is liable for nothing.

-Jeff

 

[nate379]

You need a permit to put in a pellet stove?

QUOTE=Bull;1062370]This encourages me. Otherwise, what these other guys are saying is scary.

I live in an old house. If I take a permit out to have a pellet stove put in, for example, and the inspector sees pre-existing stuff they don't like in the basement or whatever, I'd hate to think they could start causing me legal and financial nightmares. That would be stressful to the max.[/QUOTE]

 

[Red Green]

I had my electric inspected failed four times. Before I could get a meter installed. He found something new each time that was there when he inspected the first time. I was told pre-existing wiring would be ok. I was removing my fuse box and installing a circuit breaker.

When I was ready for the inspection. Then he told me any wires that drop down from the ceiling to electrical outlets had to be in conduit (pre-existing from the 70s). I asked if there was a height requirement for outlets and he said no. As soon as he left I moved all the outlets to the ceiling.

The next time the inspector showed up he told me that was not what he wanted. I told him it was up to code as you explained it to me. Then he said that I had to have covers on all the old junction boxes. They were the same as when they looked at them and said the pre-existing wire was fine.

He was just finding one thing to fail me on each time so he could bill the township for added inspections.

 

[Bull]

You need a permit to put in a pellet stove?

Yep. A permit and lots of paperwork to fill out with the details of the stove.

I have avoided doing it because I would rather have my mother-in-law visit my house than the inspector. If you knew my MIL, you would understand the impact of that statement.

 

[chopper1]

A friend put a two car extension on his existing two car garage. The inspector told him the 2x8 cross joists should have been 2x10's and there should be a drain in the floor [the original garage doesn't have a drain]. Dave got out the permits and asked who signed them and the inspector said he did. He did pass inspection.

 

[srmofo]

I was told in my county they cant fail your new work because of previous or existing work. Im not sure how true it is though, especially in these tough economic times.

 

[Fubar]

This encourages me. Otherwise, what these other guys are saying is scary.

I live in an old house. If I take a permit out to have a pellet stove put in, for example, and the inspector sees pre-existing stuff they don't like in the basement or whatever, I'd hate to think they could start causing me legal and financial nightmares. That would be stressful to the max.

Thankfully MA doesn't have those kind of "proactive" laws concerning inspections of work.

 

[Fubar]

A friend put a two car extension on his existing two car garage. The inspector told him the 2x8 cross joists should have been 2x10's and there should be a drain in the floor [the original garage doesn't have a drain]. Dave got out the permits and asked who signed them and the inspector said he did. He did pass inspection.

See, now here It's illegal to have ANY kind of a drain in a garage. They don't want gas/etc going into the ground.

 

[Bull]

Thankfully MA doesn't have those kind of "proactive" laws concerning inspections of work.

What do you mean? Are you saying that inspectors here can't nail you for old, pre-existing work?

I am surprised if this is true, since the Commonwealth puts its tentacles everywhere.

 

[Mike in Ohio]

When I built my house, the inspectors were all over the place.
the 1st plumbing inspector was a nightmare failed me but would't tell me why on the rough. On the final his replacement pointed out that I forgot to put a pipe on relief valve of the water heater, then managed to stall long enough for me to find a piece of pipe to put on so he wouldn't have to charge me to come back. The electrical inspector was funny without knowing it. When I did dad's addition he failed for not leaveing enough wire hanging out of the boxes on the rough, on my house I left the haging out at the long end of the range he gave me at dads. As he went through the house he said 2 or 3 times "you know you will have to cut some of that wire off or it won't fit in the box". I just said yes sir with a fairly straight face. The final guy was the best we moved in before it was done. When he walked in and saw my daughters toys everywhere and dishes inthe sunk. He just said " so you're about ready to move in huh". I said yeah just about.

When I built the shop I'm sure they noticed there was a house 20 feet away.
Mike

 

[warmpancakes]

wanted to add a screened in porch to house got the plans approved , concrete poured Inspector comes out and tells me too close to property line???? Measures everything again had survey done turns out house was built 3 inches back from where the sight plan called for , city let it slide

 

[eborcim]

I had my electric inspected failed four times. Before I could get a meter installed. He found something new each time that was there when he inspected the first time. I was told pre-existing wiring would be ok. I was removing my fuse box and installing a circuit breaker.

When I was ready for the inspection. Then he told me any wires that drop down from the ceiling to electrical outlets had to be in conduit (pre-existing from the 70s). I asked if there was a height requirement for outlets and he said no. As soon as he left I moved all the outlets to the ceiling.

The next time the inspector showed up he told me that was not what he wanted. I told him it was up to code as you explained it to me. Then he said that I had to have covers on all the old junction boxes. They were the same as when they looked at them and said the pre-existing wire was fine.

He was just finding one thing to fail me on each time so he could bill the township for added inspections.

Get it in writing "I was told pre-existing wiring would be ok", and have him sign and date the paper.

 

[isr2kba]

What do you mean? Are you saying that inspectors here can't nail you for old, pre-existing work?

I am surprised if this is true, since the Commonwealth puts its tentacles everywhere.

Pre-existing, non-conforming work, no. If they could do that, you would be on the hook for rebuilding old stairways, adding hurricane straps, all kinds of conduit, changing drain lines, widening doorways, etc. It would be a real expensive problem AND undermine one of the main reasons for inspection -- keeping construction safe, since everyone would be afraid of the inspectors.

That said, an inspector has a duty to notice and point out that which is in plain view and UNSAFE, whether it's conforming to current code or not. S/he should not hold up the current project for something that is not related, but certainly may insist that it gets fixed.

Examples:

- The plumbing inspector, during the course of inspecting a new water heater install notices there is an uncapped, unused gas line near where an old gas dryer was removed.

- The electrical inspector notices chafed or damaged wires elsewhere in the basement.

- Building inspector points out rusted-through bulkhead doors or loose hand rail.

In a single family, owner occupied dwelling in MA, even these egregious examples above might be pointed out in friendly, matter of fact way. In a multi-family dwelling, there should be some follow up.

Note that I have no idea what an inspector who walks in to approve a water heater installation would say if he sees a whole basement full of brand new, uninspected plumbing in a 75 year old dwelling. My guess is if it's to code -- nothing. If it's all half assed, there might be a problem.

Also, the inspectors all work together in most towns, so if the electrical guy notices all kinds of open walls and that you're in the process of finishing your basement, you might get a visit from the building inspector. If there's a lift of plumbing supplies sitting in the open garage, you might get some questions... etc.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Oh, I forgot my grand daddy **** head inspector, Seattle suburb, I could not get my final for my Occupancy Permit, because the building inspector didnt like the fact there was no sprinkler head in the middle of the main vestabule coming into the store. Now I already passed my fire final... I saw this coming and already had a frank conversation with the FD inspector when framing the store front, and he reasurred me it was not a problem, and I had adequate coverage, keeping in mind I have a stamped/approved print from the fire department of the building and the sprinkler layout (the city has this too...).

Due to a elevation problem and the fact that the store front had some wood in it, I could see it becoming a potential problem in the future, so I tried to head this off at the pass when framing, and failed, due to no fault of my own. (part of that job is seeing problems coming and knock them out before they happen)

So the building inspector, is trumping the fire inspector.... I passed my fire final, but cant get my OP from the city, until I add a sprinkler, to a totally closed up store front, and of course at this point, the staff is hired, store opening advertised, store product and staff to stock it are standing by... yada yada.

This is in a large mall. The mall manager, gets wind of this almost instantly, I didnt contact him, but he heard about it, next thing I know, the mall manager is in my store, with the MAYOR, screaming at the Mayor about this F'in renegade inspector. Turns out in this mall, no store opens without a theatrical production from this inspector, and somehow has caused the mall rent $ problems while this screw job, tries playing Mayor or God or whatever. Turns out, I just happen to be there when **** hit the fan between the mall and the city.

The inspector was a PIA from the word Go. Nothing was ever a real issue, we built high end stores, for high end retailers, with the best materials, the best union subs, money, or safety never an issue, corners never cut. I didnt argue with the ***** once, conformed to all his wishes, and then the F' stick waits till the paint is dry and floor is in to throw his weight around.

When all was said and done, I had to tear open the store front and the lid and add the sprinkler head... he won !

Needless to say, I dont get permits for any work Im doing, and will not let anyone on my property without a warrant and force to back it up....

Ive actually had a couple great inspectors that where interested in saftey and commerce, but for the most part, they seem to be disgruntled old crackers with a hard on for what or who I dont know, but been on the receiveing end too often.

 

[dcovey]

LOL, not laughing at any of these just laughing at the irony. During my issues with the building inspectors over my garage in KY. I made a comment to one of the inspectors, after the planning administrator passed me off to one of his assistants.

I made this comment:

This is what I feared would happen, a dozen inspectors and 2 dozen versions of what needs to be done

He came back with this:

We in this office share your frustration that this project continues on, but your dramatic and exaggerated claims of "a dozen inspectors and 2 dozen versions of what needs to be done," will not help solve the problem.

Unfortunately in the end I was right. But it didn't matter as my contractor had to do as they demanded..

Dave

 

[kbkna]

WOW! I feel for you guys. Here in Alabama no building codes or inspectors. Do it how you want but be carefu.l I think the codes are there to protct us from bad things that have happened in the past.

 

[Deltarat]

Here in backwoods Ms. we have to buy a building permit if we are adding square footage, but there are not any inspections. It is just your first tax on the new work. We do have to have an inspection on the electrical entrance and breaker box if we are installing a new meter, but none of the electrical pass the box has to be inspected. We just have to be careful not to get lazy and do unsafe work.

 

[GarageEnvy]

One of our local building inspectors had (as told by another inspector on my job) a sign on his desk that read "arguing with a bulding inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. You'll get nothing but dirty, tired and frustrated and at some point you'll realize the pig is enjoying it." I think that pretty much sums up a lot of our experiences.

 

[Ironcrow]

I don't fight with them. Just do it the way they want and change it to the way I want after they leave.

 

[99SVT]

I don't fight with them. Just do it the way they want and change it to the way I want after they leave.

Amen!!!!!!!

 

[blkhonda1991]

Memento, what did he actually fail you for? isr2kba is right as far as i know when it comes to inspections for new work they cannot fail you for pre existing conditions that are outside the scope of the renovation or new construction. if you are tying into old electrical sure he can fail you for something related to that but if you are building a garage he cant go and tell you the stairs in your house are not up to code and fail your garage build or even issue you any kinds of citations for it since it is a pre existing condition.

 

[michaelharris]

I think you just got unlucky with this inspector. It happens. Modify as recommended and maybe you'll get another one next time they come by.

 

[dcovey]

One of our local building inspectors had (as told by another inspector on my job) a sign on his desk that read "arguing with a bulding inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. You'll get nothing but dirty, tired and frustrated and at some point you'll realize the pig is enjoying it." I think that pretty much sums up a lot of our experiences.

LOL..

I had this picture on my bulletin board in my office when I was active duty..



Dave

 

[51rider]

I don't fight with them. Just do it the way they want and change it to the way I want after they leave.

hmmmm but that ends up costing you time and money!

Over here thay can only inspect on the work you are doing currently, they have no retrospective powers if they see something they don't like. That said if a building has gone up without permission & is less than 7 years old, the council can enforce demlition. More than 7 years and it is considered permamanet. Without a Building control completion certificate though, you will have a hard time selling it!
My inspector did comment on insulation for an external wall. He was reminded that if he referred to the plans, he would see that it would become an internal wall as part of the remodelling and that it therfore didn't need it. To be fair, my inspector has been great, it's just the other twats in planning & environmental control that pi%* me off

 

[memento]

All changes have been finished as of last night. Now I have to wait and see if he comes back with something else. If he does, I'm going to call him on it.

 

[Mr. D]

It's a matter of liability.

It's a matter of job security and a venue to collect money.

 

[blkhonda1991]

It's a matter of job security and a venue to collect money.

what changed did you have to make?

 

[memento]

My house has 2 doors in the back of my house. One of them is sealed shut and the other won't slide. Neither is used. ever. even in an emergency they can not. You'd have to break the glass and jump. I had to modify the stairs to have a 36" landing at the exit. No mention of a railing being needed though. I put one up anyway. I don't want any excuses.

I have an inground pool. I have a pool alarm. The alarm does not have a receiver for inside the house. It only has a local alarm. Had to replace it. Code requires an alarm inside the house, too.