Fair price for additional outlets

[mnoeltne]

My wife and I are having a new home built (with a LARGE garage!). I'm having them install a secondary breaker box in the garage so that I can add things later without having to run things to the basement. This has already been priced out as an extra, and I felt the price was fair.

But, I also want some additional outlets over and above the ones you would normally get in a residential garage, and they have a standard price listing of $100 for a 120v outlet, and $200 for a 240v.

Given that they will have the breaker box right there in the garage, and this is all new construction with open stud walls, this sounds a bit high to me. It would be a lot more reasonable if they had to run the circuits to the normal breaker box in the basement, but that isn't the case here.

What do you all think? Fair price or too high? If too high, what price should I try to negotiate for?

Thanks!

PS--This is in Utah if that makes a difference.

 

[ThomasP]

Do it yourself for a lot less.

 

[aka Larry]

I'm not a contractor, but I don't see why a 220V outlet costs 2X more to add, especially with new construction.

 

[CitadelBlue]

Run the wire, install the boxes will the house is under construction.

 

[woodzy]

Well, you are in for a joy. On my house, I wanted one extra outlet for a electric operated dog door, they wanted $50.00 extra. Then I wanted a Transfer switch installed in line with the main feed and if I supplied the switch it was going to be $250.00 extra. Then I looked at all the places I wanted 3-way switches, 4 way switches, extra outlets outside, and extra outlets in the garage and figured I would need a 2nd mortgage. I asked the builder if I could wire it myself as my sons are electricians and he said OK - he rebated me $7500 and I did it all.

I ended up with 22 outlets in the garage, and 11 outside - they were only going to give me 3 in the garage and two outside. I would what is fair is $50-75 extra per outlet max and 220 - maybe $100 tops - the only difference is the extra cost of the wire / outlet / breaker.

Maybe you can discuss with the builder that you could do the wiring in the garage to the panel and he would not be responsible for anything that didn't work if there was a problem. You should hire a electrical as it will need to pass code. This is all a grey area if they would even agree to it. On my contract, I could do nothing in the house but they let me pre-wire for an alarm, do the plumbing from well to house and most of the stuff outside.

 

[dclassical]

Our builder would not allow me to do any work in the house until after closing, except for low voltage work (so I was able to run more cat5, fiber - was free, and surround sound in a few rooms).

But it never hurts to ask... or maybe catch the electrician while they work and see if they would do it for less.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I ended up with 22 outlets in the garage, and 11 outside - they were only going to give me 3 in the garage and two outside.

How do you people deal like this????


Don't you go over things ahead of time and get a price for WHAT YOU WANT??
Or do you get a price for bare code minimum and then get upcharged for everything above code minimum? If so that is a WEIRD way to price anything more than a tract home.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

How do you people deal like this????


Don't you go over things ahead of time and get a price for WHAT YOU WANT??
Or do you get a price for bare code minimum and then get upcharged for everything above code minimum? If so that is a WEIRD way to price anything more than a tract home.

 

[mnoeltne]

I'm due to meet with the contractor in a day or two, so I plan on asking about running my own wiring. But, this isn't a totally custom home on my own land. This is more of a semi-custom tract home. So, yeah upgrades over the standard plan work off a price list. And the contractor owns the home until it's done, inspected, and we have closing.

So, I have my doubts on getting to wire it myself. As dclassical said, I can do my own low voltage. I'm hoping for something similar for standard wiring on the garage only.

 

[mbatarga]

I doubt the contractor will allow YOU to add any wiring.

 

[mnoeltne]

I doubt he will either. Other than low voltage, as he's already agreed to me doing CAT5/6 wiring.

That's why I want to try to talk him down in price on doing extra outlets. At $100 or $200 a pop that's gonna get expensive!!!

 

[Cmreschke]

Well, the charges are about that much here in michigan 10 years ago. Now might be a bit more (inflation) could be a tad less (cost of wire is down) but if that's the price your getting from the builder, I'd say it's down.
The electrical contractor says let's say a recept is 65 dollars and a 240 is 150 dollars. The the gc tacks on his profit (they gotta make money too) rounds ir to 100, and 200 respectively.
As far as 240 being 2 times a 120 well its gotta be a dedicated ckt. That price includes the wire (normally bigger), the breaker (2 times a single pole or more), the addition to the permit (25$ around here), the cost for the device and box (way more than 2 times the cost of a standard outlet and a bigger box.)
2 times the price for a 240 isn't that far out of line.

 

[Gotcha640]

I would get them to do a couple, farthest from the panel, you note how they pull the cable before sheet rock, and add a few more after closing.

 

[Rrumbler]

The price is about right; I used to charge $50 back min the eighties.

As to doing it yourself, I would not go along with it as a contractor. Until that job has been "finaled" by the building inspector, it belongs to the contractor and his subs, and they are, and would be held accountable for any and all discrepancies in the building, and any damages that derive from them, regardless of who did the work or their intent. I had a homeowner do just what some of you are proposing here, and I looked at it and let it slide, but I didn't catch the wrong way he had connected the grounds in the rough-in; the inspector did, though, and wrote me up for it, even though I had not done the work. As the contractor of record, I was responsible for it. If you are going to have the garage finished out, write up a change/add order and pay the tariff; if it's going to be left bare studs, wait until the house is "yours", and then go in and do whatever you like.

 

[Cmreschke]

Fyi all of a sudden you want to start adding outlets and 240s, have you figured out what that will do to your service size?
Also builder warrantees their work, as does an electrical contractor (or at least they should) if your allowed to start adding to their product you might just lose those warranties. What if you drill a hole where your not allowed to? I've seen it happen, very expensive fix.
I saw one guy cut a truss and reframe around it because he didn't like the price my boss gave him to install a light lift.
I've seen one drill trusses to run wiring for plugs in a room above a garage. All of the trusses. Those are 2 pricey fixes by potential homeowners before they even own the home, because they knew that they could do the work, and they didn't like the price for the changes.

 

[motofool33]

i just ran 15 foot of 6gauge for a 50amp 240v circuit with sealtight conduit and the cost was 90 some dollars, without labor, without a receptical, those prices are not that high.

 

[Astro-t]

Have to look at the cost: gfi =$15,breaker=10, box and wire=25 and you have $50. Add labor plus permits and inspection. Not much left for profit? Gfi devices have to be t/r so there not the cheap ones anymore!

 

[Bib Overalls]

I do my own wiring and that is legal in the county where I live. A competent individual can wire up just about anything forward of the service panel if the are attentive to detail and know the basics. Every big box store has a wiring book or two on sale. Take your pick.

In my shop I ran all of the light circuits in the wall. All of my outlet runs are in surface mounted conduit that is easy to reconfigure as needed. As I said, this is in my stand alone shop and it may not be something you would want in an attached garage.

Shop Remodel 103 by Formerly JimboT, on Flickr

If your contractor is going to finish out and paint your garage adding what you want when he is finished is more complex but certainly doable. Electricians have been rewiring houses and adding circuits from the day the light bulb was invented and you can do it too. The technique that I would most likely use sounds like radical surgery but it is not complex. Lay out your circuits on the wall and the location of your boxes. In a garage I usually center the box about 42" up from the floor. With the layout done, give your wife the credit card and send her to the mall or suggest she visit a friend out of town.

When your wife has left tale a drywall saw and make two parallel cuts about 8" apart and remove the drywall. Open up the insulation and drill 3/4" holes in the center of the studs at the top of the gap. Mount your boxes. Pull your wire. Reset tour insulation and tape as necessary to restore the moisture barrier. Cut full length patch panels out of a drywall board and glue/nail them into position.

If you are not comfortable working with mud look in your newspaper or on Craigslist for a drywaller that specializes in repairs. People are always punching something through their drywall and slumlords in particular give these guys steady work. A good one will heat up the mud and have the patches taped and slicked out paint ready in no time.

 

[JettaGetUpandGo]

Is the builder going to drywall the garage? If not, let him put in the 3 outlets, then run the rest yourself after closing since the walls will be open and the panel is conveniently located.

I work for a builder (as a designer), but know that we charge $32 per additional outlet and $45 if it's a double outlet (15A). If they're 20A the price bumps up to $36 and $53. If a new circuit needs to be run for these outlets, then it's an additional $89 or $100 depending on 15/20A.

These are the prices we charge a homeowner which includes a 17% markup from what the electrician charges us. The $100 per outlet seems steep, even if he's factoring in multiple additional circuits.

Oh, a 220V 30A outlet for us is $170, but I believe that includes the full circuit (from the main panel) and breaker since customers usually only add one.

 

[rsnip988]

Is the builder going to drywall the garage? If not, let him put in the 3 outlets, then run the rest yourself after closing since the walls will be open and the panel is conveniently located.

I agree! From a DIY standpoint it seems expensive, but you are paying a professional to do the work and they want to make a profit, so i don't blame them!
100' of 12/2 ~$50
New outlets 10/$10 (tamper resistant contractor packs they are going to put in)
Gang boxes ~$1ea
1 GFCI outlet $15 per circuit
20A breaker ~$5 per circuit...
$80-$120 would wire your entire garage for 120V

The 240V would cost more depending on the amperage you want... but lets assume you want 50A for a welder or 30A for a compressor...
Depending on where the main panel (or sub-panel) is located from the garage will determine the cable cost.
10/2 for 30A 50' for ~$50
6/2 for 50A 50' for ~$90
30A/50A Breakers ~$10 per circuit
Outlets & box can range from~$10-$30+ depending on the way you want it mounted...
$120-$150 per 220/240V circuit is what it would cost you to DIY..

These prices can differ depending on where you are (unless you order online) and how far of a run you need from the panel to the outlets you want placed!

all just my opinion/math for what that's worth

 

[dave*99]

Will the builder let you deal with the electrician directly? I've had some luck in that situation.

In fact, I went to the site when my house was being built and made a "cash deal" with the subcontractor on the spot.

 

[mnoeltne]

But, the walls won't be open at closing. Garage is to be insulated, drywalled, and painted.

So, anything done by me later will have to be surface mount. That's OK, but a bit more expensive due to conduit, and doesn't look as nice as in the wall.

On really heavy 240v circuits I can actually see the cost as the wire is much more expensive. But labor on everything, including the standard outlets, will be easier and quicker due to the secondary panel right there in the garage.

Anyway, we'll see what the contractor has to say.

Thanks for everyone's opinions.

 

[woodzy]

Maybe you can drill holes in the walls, and install CAT 5 wires at each outlet and then after it is finished, you then use those wires to pull Romex in and use a cut in box. Just tell the builder you are opening up a data center and you need plenty of Cat 5 cables outlets.

If you have an attic above the garage the pulling should be easy.

 

[Cmreschke]

Instead of cat 5 wires just put strings in there. That would work. No harm in that.

 

[cide1]

Having installed several outlets in my garage myself (four 120v and two 50 amp 240v) I would say that the prices are reasonable and I don't think the savings would be worth the headache.

 

[truckman5000]

If you can do your self.

Run some pvc up the walls, into the attic for sleeves. Run a 2" pvc to acouple inches above the panel. Then after the sheet rock, you can pull wire. And if you wanted to add anything latter, you can

 

[Speedy Petey]

Is the builder going to drywall the garage? If not, let him put in the 3 outlets, then run the rest yourself after closing since the walls will be open and the panel is conveniently located.

I work for a builder (as a designer), but know that we charge $32 per additional outlet and $45 if it's a double outlet (15A). If they're 20A the price bumps up to $36 and $53. If a new circuit needs to be run for these outlets, then it's an additional $89 or $100 depending on 15/20A.

These are the prices we charge a homeowner which includes a 17% markup from what the electrician charges us. The $100 per outlet seems steep, even if he's factoring in multiple additional circuits.

Oh, a 220V 30A outlet for us is $170, but I believe that includes the full circuit (from the main panel) and breaker since customers usually only add one.

Cost of living in WI must be insanely cheap. I wouldn't break even at those prices.

Are you seriously saying your electrician charges $28 per opening for receptacles???
If so tell him I said the 80's called, they want their prices back.

 

[rsnip988]

Cost of living in WI must be insanely cheap. I wouldn't break even at those prices.

Are you seriously saying your electrician charges $28 per opening for receptacles???
If so tell him I said the 80's called, they want their prices back.

either that or he doesn't like making a profit,,,

 

[Speedy Petey]

either that or he doesn't like making a profit,,,

Or even paying his bills.

 

[Milzo]

I used to work for biggest national homebuilder in the US until 2014. We paid $15 to add an additional outlet and charged the customer $100. We wouldn't let customers do any work in their homes due to them not having insurance to act as a contractor and up until closing we owned the home not the customer. So if the customer bailed on the house or couldn't close for some reason we didn't want to be stuck with modifications they did in the home on their own. I think $50 per outlet would be a more fair price.

 

[Cmreschke]

15 an outlet, now your ****** the contractor. I'll venture to say that the contractor was haggle down to that price in order to keep the builder.

 

[JettaGetUpandGo]

Cost of living in WI must be insanely cheap. I wouldn't break even at those prices.

Are you seriously saying your electrician charges $28 per opening for receptacles???
If so tell him I said the 80's called, they want their prices back.

He charges us $26.52 and we bill the customer $32. $100 is ludicrous. This is new construction. The walls are open, the box is being mounted and the wires are being pulled at the same time as every other outlet in the house.

A Cooper 15A tamper resistant outlet is $1.19 at Lowes, face plate is $0.35, single gang new work box is $0.49, and $15.67 for a 50' roll of 14-2 wire. This adds up to $17.70. I intentionally picked single item prices and the longest reasonable length of wire necessary for adding an outlet to a circuit. Realistically, if you're adding an outlet to a circuit it's probably within 10-15' of another outlet on that circuit.

Keep in mind, contractor pricing is significantly less buying outlets, face plates, and wire in bulk. Even at Lowes, the price for a 10-pack of outlets and a larger spool of wire significantly reduces the cost per outlet.

When we built I had two outlets installed by the electrician in an area I planned on putting a workbench. The cost was slightly higher (maybe $45?) because the outlets were mounted on a concrete wall and the wires were in conduit from the top of the wall to the box. I didn't realize these outlets would be on the same circuit as all of the lights in the unfinished area (4) 4-bulb 4' T8 fixtures, the central vac, and lights in the adjacent bathroom.

After closing, I bought 250' of 12-2 wire (still have half of it left), a new breaker, GFCI outlet, and an additional outlet. I ran the new circuit myself for a total of $75. The only parts I reused were the conduit on the wall and the double gang boxes on the wall. The cost to have the electrician do this would have been ~$220 which I would have gladly paid up front instead of $80 had I known.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I for one certainly don't need a break down of what the material cost. I am WELL aware of that. IMO though it is completely meaningless. They give you a price, if you like it, do it. If you don't, don't have it done. Simple as that.
People that start throwing what our material cost and how much time something should take are an IMMEDIATE red flag. Typically I bow out of those jobs as people like that are usually too tedious to work for.

It's like asking for a price breakdown on a service upgrade when folks start spouting how they can get a panel for $100 and a meter pan for $30, bla, bla, bla.
A 200A service is something like $2200. Period. Don't like it, don't hire me.

And yes, $32 per receptacle is an INSANE price, even in Podunk USA. I am probably in the middle of the scale at around $55-60. As an add-on change order it might be higher depending on conditions.

 

[Speedy Petey]

15 an outlet, now your ****** the contractor. I'll venture to say that the contractor was haggle down to that price in order to keep the builder.

+1 !

 

[idleclamp]

I don't have anything to add as far a haggling the price. But I did have a new house built. I had some extra garage outlets and a few other things here and there done that were extra. Some he charged for, and some he didn't. One of the things I wanted to do was have the game room roughed in for plumbing a wet bar. He wanted $500. I scoffed and was annoyed at the cost. Afterall, it would of been so simple to do before drywall!! I chose not to do. After the house was finished, I realized it would be significantly more expensive to have it done after the fact. I ended up selling the house and moving before I found out how much more expensive it would've been.

Bottom line is that I was making a big deal out of $500 when I was spending $350k on a house. What I took away from that and what I tell my friends that are building new is this: Think about how you're going to get that done after the fact. Is it worth the hassle to save a couple hundred bucks (or even $1k)? Skimp on things like faucets and light fixtures now if you have to. Those are easy to replace. Just my experience. Hope this helps.

 

[toplessHO]

I do my own wiring and that is legal in the county where I live. A competent individual can wire up just about anything forward of the service panel if the are attentive to detail and know the basics. Every big box store has a wiring book or two on sale. Take your pick.

In my shop I ran all of the light circuits in the wall. All of my outlet runs are in surface mounted conduit that is easy to reconfigure as needed. As I said, this is in my stand alone shop and it may not be something you would want in an attached garage.

Shop Remodel 103 by Formerly JimboT, on Flickr

If your contractor is going to finish out and paint your garage adding what you want when he is finished is more complex but certainly doable. Electricians have been rewiring houses and adding circuits from the day the light bulb was invented and you can do it too. The technique that I would most likely use sounds like radical surgery but it is not complex. Lay out your circuits on the wall and the location of your boxes. In a garage I usually center the box about 42" up from the floor. With the layout done, give your wife the credit card and send her to the mall or suggest she visit a friend out of town.

When your wife has left tale a drywall saw and make two parallel cuts about 8" apart and remove the drywall. Open up the insulation and drill 3/4" holes in the center of the studs at the top of the gap. Mount your boxes. Pull your wire. Reset tour insulation and tape as necessary to restore the moisture barrier. Cut full length patch panels out of a drywall board and glue/nail them into position.

If you are not comfortable working with mud look in your newspaper or on Craigslist for a drywaller that specializes in repairs. People are always punching something through their drywall and slumlords in particular give these guys steady work. A good one will heat up the mud and have the patches taped and slicked out paint ready in no time.

nice work but would consider using actual 4 sq boxes vs handy boxes

 

[JettaGetUpandGo]

I for one certainly don't need a break down of what the material cost. I am WELL aware of that. IMO though it is completely meaningless. They give you a price, if you like it, do it. If you don't, don't have it done. Simple as that.
People that start throwing what our material cost and how much time something should take are an IMMEDIATE red flag. Typically I bow out of those jobs as people like that are usually too tedious to work for.

It's like asking for a price breakdown on a service upgrade when folks start spouting how they can get a panel for $100 and a meter pan for $30, bla, bla, bla.
A 200A service is something like $2200. Period. Don't like it, don't hire me.

And yes, $32 per receptacle is an INSANE price, even in Podunk USA. I am probably in the middle of the scale at around $55-60. As an add-on change order it might be higher depending on conditions.

You stated you wouldn't even break even at $32. I only listed the materials and cost to show there is still room for markup and labor/overhead. We build between 60 and 80 houses a year and our electrical contractors (we use two) do work for other builders as well. Our cost on a 2,800 sq. ft. house is approximately $15,000. I don't know if that is high/low/reasonable. It could be that their bids are high, then they charge less for extras rather than bidding low and charging an arm and a leg for extras.

Maybe the guys that charge $100 per outlet do significantly less work throughout the year (I wonder why?) and need to charge that to cover their overhead.

 

[Milzo]

Our cost on a 2,800 sq. ft. house is approximately $15,000. I don't know if that is high/low/reasonable.

I was paying around $2.50/sf for new construction wiring so about $7000 for a 2800sf home. That is basically everything needed to be code compliant, low voltage and a few can lights in the kitchen and hallways. That is in NE Ohio and union labor. We have electricians in the market that charge similar to your $15,000 but those guys only do custom homes.

 

[JettaGetUpandGo]

I was paying around $2.50/sf for new construction wiring so about $7000 for a 2800sf home. That is basically everything needed to be code compliant, low voltage and a few can lights in the kitchen and hallways. That is in NE Ohio and union labor. We have electricians in the market that charge similar to your $15,000 but those guys only do custom homes.

We do have models, but most evolve into custom homes or start out as full custom. Low voltage is not included in that (we use a different contractor), but a few upgrades over standard code: 320 amp service, decora switches, wiring/switches for ceiling fans in all bedrooms, office, great room and switched outlets in those rooms as well. Maybe this number is a bit high, which is why the extras are cheaper for the customer. We don't get a break down of materials/labor, just their bid for the home and their standard prices for typical upgrades (as it should be). The bids do fall in line with other electrical contractors in the area.

 

[Wirepuller]

I for one certainly don't need a break down of what the material cost. I am WELL aware of that. IMO though it is completely meaningless. They give you a price, if you like it, do it. If you don't, don't have it done. Simple as that.
People that start throwing what our material cost and how much time something should take are an IMMEDIATE red flag. Typically I bow out of those jobs as people like that are usually too tedious to work for.

It's like asking for a price breakdown on a service upgrade when folks start spouting how they can get a panel for $100 and a meter pan for $30, bla, bla, bla.
A 200A service is something like $2200. Period. Don't like it, don't hire me.

And yes, $32 per receptacle is an INSANE price, even in Podunk USA. I am probably in the middle of the scale at around $55-60. As an add-on change order it might be higher depending on conditions.

1,000,0000% agreed here. These types of clients are not worth working for.