Wiz02
Well-known member
Very interesting, I don't do enough construction to see the advantages of all these drive types. However, I do end up buying new bits when I lose the one that came in the box of screws though!
Favorite construction screw head design
- Thread starter CraigStu
- Start date
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
A T25 covers a big range of fasteners. I usually buy better bits and leave the ones in the containers as backups. The bits that grk provides are decent but not amazing.
For really big stuff, like 6-8" ledger screws, spider drive works well for me, but they need the beans to get in.
I also like the torx drive grk trim screws. I think they are T10's. Really small head.
Overall, I think torx covers the widest range with great performance.
Wiz02
Well-known member
Technology advances leads to specialization / proliferation which requires new tools ! (Even if I was perfectly happy pre-Torx and that includes vehicles.)
scooby074
Well-known member
A proper "Genuine Robertson" screw with a Genuine Robertson driver is awesome. It will lock onto the driver and not fall off. Not that "square drive" BS.
GRK is my choice for anything over a #10 or longer screws. Fun fact, GRK was also a Canadian company like Robbie before being swallowed up by ITW. I guess we Canadians are great at screwing.
GRK is my choice for anything over a #10 or longer screws. Fun fact, GRK was also a Canadian company like Robbie before being swallowed up by ITW. I guess we Canadians are great at screwing.
I’m in the uk, so literally every diy store and builders merchant carries pozi’s by the shelf full, they’re the default screw over here.
I recently used some 8mm hex head structural screws and was surprised how well they worked. The only way I could think to recess them was to use a 12mm Forstner bit to make a flat bottomed hole, then put the hex head screw into it, bit of a pita but it worked.
Wow, lots of good info here. I just checked and most of my screws are 'Deck-plus' or 'Deck-something' from Lowes or HD. But the ones I have been using on this project I picked up at Rural King. So I am pretty sure they are bottom of the barrel quality wise. Next time I will look into Spax or GRK. I have used them before, even have 2 boxes of Spax in stock, but I never picked up on the quality difference between them and others. Thanks to all of you for your experiences.
drwheels
Well-known member
Deckmates that come with a bit and at 03 or better pricing at HD.
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mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
i looked at my screw shelf and the latest couple boxes are actually deck plus, not grip rite. they've been just fine for the projects i've used them on. that said, structural stuff get grk. at double the cost, i can't justify using them everywhere, though.
acer66
Well-known member
Same here, I use gripe right or similar where is does not count and the good stuff when called for.
I feel like the last 15 years especially - screws went from almost as cheap as nails to being expensive designer/engineered products. GRK is out of my league entirely. (I have a huge box of discounted 3/8" lags to use up)
I guess that's inconsequential when you're a contractor and pass on the cost (plus a margin). More harsh for an avid DIYer trying to shape his space on the same old paycheque.
acer66
Well-known member
You can still buy the cheap stuff and maybe it is because of higher labor rates that better screws are finally more readily available.
As someone who uses these for making a living I welcome them.
Time is money and cheap screws are cheap for a reason.
I use quality professional tools to get things done at work and it does not make sense for me then to use cheap screws.
Its like getting a sports car and then put the cheapest tires on them.
I think Torx does a better job of staying together with the bit but I have way more phillips on hand.
finn
Well-known member
GRK Torx are the best I have found.
The GRK seem to have superior self tapping capability, and I don’t find as many with shallow broaching as on some other brands. Fewer with sharp machining dwarf also.
I sometimes buy theGrip Rite or whatever the cheaper brand at Menards is called. They work ok until you have an out of position or hard to reach situation. Then you wish you had sprung the extra coin for GRK.
The camming out problem some have mentioned is likely due to using the wrong size bit, or using worn or cheap bits.
The GRK seem to have superior self tapping capability, and I don’t find as many with shallow broaching as on some other brands. Fewer with sharp machining dwarf also.
I sometimes buy theGrip Rite or whatever the cheaper brand at Menards is called. They work ok until you have an out of position or hard to reach situation. Then you wish you had sprung the extra coin for GRK.
The camming out problem some have mentioned is likely due to using the wrong size bit, or using worn or cheap bits.
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kumquat
Well-known member
Nobody likes Quadrex?
jack stand
Well-known member
I've never met a torx screw I didn't like!
Every time I come across a container of p.h. screws in my piles of old **** it goes right in the trash. The only thing their good for is drywall and that's subbed out.
Every time I come across a container of p.h. screws in my piles of old **** it goes right in the trash. The only thing their good for is drywall and that's subbed out.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Never heard of it, but I just looked it up. I use a R2 any time I come across them. Philips is the drive if last resort, except for slotted
duneslider
Well-known member
I only use Phillips if I am predrilling. Too much aggravation if don’t.
I have used pozidrive and it is fine but not common where I am. I do use pozidrive confirmat screws for melamine and mdf. I like them a lot but again that’s all predrilled. Torx just seems to be the most common and I break a lot less torx bits. I go through Phillips like crazy and break them all the time.
I have used pozidrive and it is fine but not common where I am. I do use pozidrive confirmat screws for melamine and mdf. I like them a lot but again that’s all predrilled. Torx just seems to be the most common and I break a lot less torx bits. I go through Phillips like crazy and break them all the time.
trevan
Member
Always been a Robertson fan. Thats likely a Canadian thing as we had ready access for general usage. Learned to detest slot heads at an early age! My experience with spline/torx is limited but I managed to cam one out and drove the tip into my finger causing a pretty severe wound. Coincidentally I currently live in the town where P. L. Robertsons factory was located - the building still stands although its vacant.
LWB
Well-known member
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In all honesty, if you don't mind swinging a hammer there's nothing wrong with good quality nails. Especially with joist hangers now. It's not coming apart and any screw is probably overkill.
finn
Well-known member
I’ve smashed my fingers enough on joist hanger nails that I buckled down and bought a number of boxes of torx head joist hanger screws for use anytime I am a little out of position.DuraDrive 3-1/2 in. Bright Finish Spiral Shank Ardox Nails (50 lb. per Box) | Investments Hardware Limited
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In all honesty, if you don't mind swinging a hammer there's nothing wrong with good quality nails. Especially with joist hangers now. It's not coming apart and any screw is probably overkill.
My fingers thanked me.
acer66
Well-known member
Yeah unless you have a nailer joist hanger nailing gets old very fast at least according to my fingers too.
Ton ton
Well-known member
My dad likes torx. But there's quite a few options out there. Sometimes it can be a bit hard to decide.
LWB
Well-known member
If I was doing it for a living I would absolutely use screws and do most of the time. If I was to build one deck I'd consider nails.
I throw out every one of those I come across in my fastener box.I just try to avoid slotted fasteners.
niget2002
Well-known member
I use whatever I grab off the shelf. I hate all of them equally.
wbclassics
Well-known member
I can't comment on favorite, but I hate anything that requires a proprietary bit exclusive to the fastener manufacturer. The contractor that built my barn had an affinity for FastenMaster's HeadLOK fasteners, there must be hundreds if not in the low thousands of these in my building (at least $2k worth). The head drive on these is a proprietary drive called SpiderDrive. The bits are awful quality, they give you 2 per bucket of which is usually just enough to get you 1/2 way through a bucket before the bit wears to the point of poorly engaging the fastener or simply breaks. And the poor drive design also means that plenty of the female drive ends on the fasteners are worn simply on initial installation.
www.fastenmaster.com
No idea why he doesn't use FlatLOK instead, which has a Torx variant, at least then you can source higher quality replacement bits easily.
HeadLOK®: Flat Head Heavy-Duty Structural Deck Framing Screw
The HeadLOK Screw is a code-compliant flat head rigid foam structural wood screw for attaching deck framing, requiring no predrilling. Learn more.
www.fastenmaster.com
No idea why he doesn't use FlatLOK instead, which has a Torx variant, at least then you can source higher quality replacement bits easily.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
#3 phillips will work on them if they arent too chowdered. I've installed a lot of these in the past, but have pulled away from them as other options came available. Back then, the factory bits were garbage. They lasted longer on a drill than an impact but not much. The Milwaukee spider drive bits are better.I can't comment on favorite, but I hate anything that requires a proprietary bit exclusive to the fastener manufacturer. The contractor that built my barn had an affinity for FastenMaster's HeadLOK fasteners, there must be hundreds if not in the low thousands of these in my building (at least $2k worth). The head drive on these is a proprietary drive called SpiderDrive. The bits are awful quality, they give you 2 per bucket of which is usually just enough to get you 1/2 way through a bucket before the bit wears to the point of poorly engaging the fastener or simply breaks. And the poor drive design also means that plenty of the female drive ends on the fasteners are worn simply on initial installation.
HeadLOK®: Flat Head Heavy-Duty Structural Deck Framing Screw
The HeadLOK Screw is a code-compliant flat head rigid foam structural wood screw for attaching deck framing, requiring no predrilling. Learn more.
No idea why he doesn't use FlatLOK instead, which has a Torx variant, at least then you can source higher quality replacement bits easily.
Zeke
Well-known member
And yet those are very efficient. Back when there were only 2-3 other choices FH screws were still viable. The thing is, with other screw types you need one bit per type. If you deal with FH screws on antiques as I do, you can't have enough screwdrivers to fit exactly. You can hand torque a FH screw until it breaks.
The secret is that the tip of the blade needs to wedge in the slot and not quite touch the bottom. One in a 1000 do this correctly. I rebuilt a virgin South Bend lathe from 1944 and every screw was a FH. I didn't mess up one. And none broke. They made good **** then.
bob15
Well-known member
Typically still use square drive because I've been for 15+ years and see no issue adding to confusion if I need to take some apart (did I use a square drive or a torx?).
I use the zinc yellow ones fro McFeelys: https://www.mcfeelys.com/8-x-3-4-in...nc-plated-flat-head-square-drive-qty-100.html
I also use TimberLok screws instead of Lag bolts: https://www.fastenmaster.com/products/timberlok
I use the zinc yellow ones fro McFeelys: https://www.mcfeelys.com/8-x-3-4-in...nc-plated-flat-head-square-drive-qty-100.html
I also use TimberLok screws instead of Lag bolts: https://www.fastenmaster.com/products/timberlok
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I bought a bucket of 7" headlok years ago and can't say I have broken a bit. That includes driving about 100 of them with my 1/2" Dewalt high torque. I've driven a bunch with a regular impact and a few with a drill too.I can't comment on favorite, but I hate anything that requires a proprietary bit exclusive to the fastener manufacturer. The contractor that built my barn had an affinity for FastenMaster's HeadLOK fasteners, there must be hundreds if not in the low thousands of these in my building (at least $2k worth). The head drive on these is a proprietary drive called SpiderDrive. The bits are awful quality, they give you 2 per bucket of which is usually just enough to get you 1/2 way through a bucket before the bit wears to the point of poorly engaging the fastener or simply breaks. And the poor drive design also means that plenty of the female drive ends on the fasteners are worn simply on initial installation.
HeadLOK®: Flat Head Heavy-Duty Structural Deck Framing Screw
The HeadLOK Screw is a code-compliant flat head rigid foam structural wood screw for attaching deck framing, requiring no predrilling. Learn more.
No idea why he doesn't use FlatLOK instead, which has a Torx variant, at least then you can source higher quality replacement bits easily.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
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Slednut
Well-known member
I hate square drive, we've been stuck with those at work for years. You always want to make sure you have a worn out bit when removing them or the screw gets stuck on the bit so bad you have to pound it on a hard surface to get it off the bit.
Torx are good for a lot and the new screws are really nice, you just don't want to use them when screwing down deck material because if you ever want to remove them you have to run a drill bit in them and use compressed air to get all the crud out so they can be removed. I wish everything was still phillips.
Torx are good for a lot and the new screws are really nice, you just don't want to use them when screwing down deck material because if you ever want to remove them you have to run a drill bit in them and use compressed air to get all the crud out so they can be removed. I wish everything was still phillips.
PassnThru
Well-known member
While I understand the limitations of Phillips screws it's mostly what I use. They are cheaper and more readily available. With an impact driver the issues are less apparent. If we were all still driving screws with a drill they would have probably gone away by now but a good impact has extended their life.
reader2580
Well-known member
My main issue with Torx is wearing out the bits. I use the correct size bit, but after hundreds of uses with an impact driver the bit will be showing a lot of wear. Maybe I just need better bits, I don't know. It doesn't stop me from using Torx. I just make sure I have plenty of bits.
KnurledNut the difference in those bits is amazing. They should all be identical but they obviously vary a lot. I do test fits to be sure I have the right size but I think I will test a little more because I know my bits come from different sources. The source may be as important as the size when trying to get a tight fit.
jar944
Well-known member
Bits are consumables. If it's worn throw it out and grab another one out of the pile. They all wear out, regardless of the drive type.
I will say quality bits last longer than the cheap no name garbage.
trevan
Member
Old Robertson building in Milton Ontario. [m
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nbpt100
Well-known member
They are their own animal. Use a robertson or a combination bit. You are right!
They are out there on some structural screws. Nothing wrong with Hex head.
Torx and Robertson are head and shoulders better over Philips. Sorry to those who prefer Philips. Good luck and all the more power to you. I have very limited experience woth Pozi. One more vote for I have never seen them in a Hardware store.
The OP's observations and concerns are about poor quality screws and bits. Or just worn bits. Not about the Torx drive. I have never stripped a Torx without doing something stupid. Like using a T20 on a T25 screw or holding the tool too far off angle in mode 4. Torx does allow for a greater approach angle when you cannot be 90 degrees to the screw with the tool. More so than Robertson. In my observation, anyway.
Screw quality varies. You tend to get what you pay for. No question.
This is exactly what I don't want. I want the screw to lock onto the bit. I seem to get into many situations where I am holding the board w/ left hand and want to run the screw in. I don't want the screw wobbling around where the tip is barely started but the head and the bit are spinning in a 3/4 inch circle. Even if my left hand is available it isn't always easy to hold the drill, or the end of the screw, to get rid of the circle. I have plenty of bits so no problem trashing a worn one, but I need to look at bit quality more carefully. I also will not buy any more of the Rural King screws. I noticed that the recess that the bit should fit into is shallower than other brands. I knew I'd get good info here so thanks to everyone who replied