Ok fellas... My decade old Craftsman shop vac is on its last leg and it's time to go a new. Typically, I'd just buy another cheap Craftsman and call it a day. Not that Cr...
To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.
- Thread starter Ryan
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Ok fellas... My decade old Craftsman shop vac is on its last leg and it's time to go a new. Typically, I'd just buy another cheap Craftsman and call it a day. Not that Cr...
To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.
shortykorte
Well-known member
After reading about the Mid century Mecca, Festool tools sound great if you have coin.
If you do a lot of sanding, routing and cutting, probably.
If the collector works with non-Festool tools, maybe.
If you have Festool tools, probably.
Primary purpose is a vacuum, probably not.
Hey, it's Garage Journal, home of tool addicts so why not!
If you do a lot of sanding, routing and cutting, probably.
If the collector works with non-Festool tools, maybe.
If you have Festool tools, probably.
Primary purpose is a vacuum, probably not.
Hey, it's Garage Journal, home of tool addicts so why not!
8man
Well-known member
Worked with a buddies Festool vac last weekend and it was nice. Turned on/off with the saw and did a good job. Can't address the "is it worth the money" question.
Just putting in my 2 cents worth, I have no experience with the Festool but the $700.00 price tag leaves me out...I do use the Ridgid shop vac from Home Depot for $99.00 and they work great, you can buy seven of them for the price of one Festool...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-14-gal-Professional-Wet-Dry-Vacuum-WD1450/100081216
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-14-gal-Professional-Wet-Dry-Vacuum-WD1450/100081216
macgyver37
Well-known member
Is there a decibel rating on it? My biggest beef with shop vacs is they are way too loud. If this one is quiet, I'd consider it if I had the money, otherwise I doubt it. For $700, I'd want to be able to talk to someone with it on without shouting.
I have had the Festool saw and vac system for several years now. It is an excellent vac and system. It captures almost all the debris from the track saw. It is quieter than my Fein vac and both are much quieter that the Craftsman products.
I bought it years ago to make a perfect cut in the middle of an oak floor. That one cut paid for the system. Pricey, but excellent. Fein's are very good as well.
I bought it years ago to make a perfect cut in the middle of an oak floor. That one cut paid for the system. Pricey, but excellent. Fein's are very good as well.
Spn1025
Banned
Just putting in my 2 cents worth, I have no experience with the Festool but the $700.00 price tag leaves me out...I do use the Ridgid shop vac from Home Depot for $99.00 and they work great, you can buy seven of them for the price of one Festool...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-14-gal-Professional-Wet-Dry-Vacuum-WD1450/100081216
Same here.. I use a Ridgid stainless shop vac.
Everyone's opinions are different.. but I can't see spending that much money on a shop vac for home use. Even if I was a professional whatever and had to use it daily, I'd still find something cheaper.
I guess there's just some things that I would prefer a top name brand in, such as a Festool miter saw. A vacuum isn't one of them.
I don't have any experience with this specific vacuum. I do know that if money was no object, I would pick one of these bad boys up... https://www.blastrac.com/products/m.directory/698/view/bdc-1216
Two motors, well built, fairly quiet. I used one professionally for awhile in a previous job, and it held up well past what a shop vac brand will. You won't be disappointed with the performance of these!
Two motors, well built, fairly quiet. I used one professionally for awhile in a previous job, and it held up well past what a shop vac brand will. You won't be disappointed with the performance of these!
I got a smaller model (part of deal with track saw) a couple of years ago and it has made a huge difference to power tool work using it as part of a dust collection system, the workshop needs much less clean up.
As a general shop vac (not used for dust extraction) it is overkill and I would have gone for something much cheaper.
One thing to watch is once you start drinking the green kool aid ... its a slippery slope!
As a general shop vac (not used for dust extraction) it is overkill and I would have gone for something much cheaper.
One thing to watch is once you start drinking the green kool aid ... its a slippery slope!
OP
danski0224
Well-known member
As part of the Festool system, unquestionably yes.
If you intend to use it as a Shop-Vac, you will need the larger hose kit in the anti-static version.
The Festool vacs are HEPA rated which is quite different from putting a so-called HEPA filter into a Shop-Vac.
The Festool can be used all day without issue. The variable speed control is useful. It is also very quiet.
The Festool bags will not clog with fine dust like drywall dust. Yup, the bags are expensive for what they are.
Bear in mind that this is a tool made in Germany, not China, and the price reflects it.
The Festool pricing is pretty much in-line with non-disposable professional quality wet/dry vacuums: https://www.nilfisk-alto.com/en/products/Pages/category.aspx?CategoryId=10130125
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/corded/8925
If you intend to use it as a Shop-Vac, you will need the larger hose kit in the anti-static version.
The Festool vacs are HEPA rated which is quite different from putting a so-called HEPA filter into a Shop-Vac.
The Festool can be used all day without issue. The variable speed control is useful. It is also very quiet.
The Festool bags will not clog with fine dust like drywall dust. Yup, the bags are expensive for what they are.
Bear in mind that this is a tool made in Germany, not China, and the price reflects it.
The Festool pricing is pretty much in-line with non-disposable professional quality wet/dry vacuums: https://www.nilfisk-alto.com/en/products/Pages/category.aspx?CategoryId=10130125
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/corded/8925
rpenner54
Well-known member
We have one, and use it with a finish sander and a router. The sander is great for inside customers houses where dust is an issue. The router is so-so... As far as the vac goes it doesn't replace a shop vacs ability to gobble up everything so we don't use it for that. We like it but it is like everyone said pricey. I would really like to try out a more aggressive palm sander on their system but we just keep on using our porter cable. There is one issue I have with ours. It's the cord management system. There is none! Well there was but it was broken off with no way to wrap up the cord. Other then that it works well.
This is used in our wood shop. Not everyday but when it's used it gets used.
This is used in our wood shop. Not everyday but when it's used it gets used.
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rpenner54
Well-known member
I will add that when sanding all day I much prefer this unit to the porter cable we have. I can hook up the porter cable to this vac with some tape and other junk but it still produces dust. My nose sure does not enjoy all that dust by the end of the day.
rice rocket
Well-known member
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I had the CT26, same unit with a smaller tub.
I only used it for sanding and tracksaw dust, never as a shop vac, though it's supposedly capable.
I sold it for a Metabo ASR 35 HEPA, which is not only cheaper, but a better vac for several reasons. #1, long delay in shutoff to ensure hoses are cleared. #2, autoclean capable, meaning you can use it for drywall and grinding concrete, which makes it much more useful. #3, it's quieter, on all levels, low or high, #4, better suction.
Only thing I miss on my Festool vac is the systainer dock, if that matters to you, and the thicker gauge cable. Otherwise the Metabo is better in almost every aspect.
I'd take a hard look at the Bosch as well, which has better suction than both the Metabo and Festool. You can see the difference in some comparison videos (Protool is the same vac as the Festool, they're both TTS Tooltechnic Systems brands):
http://mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/thread/548/erika-85-ec-dust-collection?page=4
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YMz-yfB842c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I only used it for sanding and tracksaw dust, never as a shop vac, though it's supposedly capable.
I sold it for a Metabo ASR 35 HEPA, which is not only cheaper, but a better vac for several reasons. #1, long delay in shutoff to ensure hoses are cleared. #2, autoclean capable, meaning you can use it for drywall and grinding concrete, which makes it much more useful. #3, it's quieter, on all levels, low or high, #4, better suction.
Only thing I miss on my Festool vac is the systainer dock, if that matters to you, and the thicker gauge cable. Otherwise the Metabo is better in almost every aspect.
I'd take a hard look at the Bosch as well, which has better suction than both the Metabo and Festool. You can see the difference in some comparison videos (Protool is the same vac as the Festool, they're both TTS Tooltechnic Systems brands):
http://mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/thread/548/erika-85-ec-dust-collection?page=4
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YMz-yfB842c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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I have a CT36 and a CT26. The share the same motor, and upper section with controls and electronics.
I use the CT36 with routers, the mitre saw and sanders. Apart from the belt sander the level of dust collection is very good. Variable suction is useful with sanders to stop the sander sticking to the surface being worked on.
I use the CT26 with a drywall sander and a Protool concrete grinder. Dustless concrete grinding is a complete game changer.
Both can be set up with two power outlets. Switching on the tool switches on the CT, which runs on for 3 seconds after the tool is switched off to clear the dust from the hose.
Noise-wise, I'm normally wearing hearing protection on for the primary tool. But subjectively they don't seem loud.
I use the CT36 with routers, the mitre saw and sanders. Apart from the belt sander the level of dust collection is very good. Variable suction is useful with sanders to stop the sander sticking to the surface being worked on.
I use the CT26 with a drywall sander and a Protool concrete grinder. Dustless concrete grinding is a complete game changer.
Both can be set up with two power outlets. Switching on the tool switches on the CT, which runs on for 3 seconds after the tool is switched off to clear the dust from the hose.
Noise-wise, I'm normally wearing hearing protection on for the primary tool. But subjectively they don't seem loud.
If its for home use and you're not a clean freak, you don't need it. Buy the cheaper Fein that goes for $300. The Festool vac is worth every penny to a contractor that's trying to keep customers happy. The vacuum will pay for itself in referrals, which is where the next job comes from. I would never use an expensive vac for wet pickup. I own a couple of the smaller hand carry Ridgid vacs, a big Milwaukee stainless one, and the Festool in question. The Ridgids work great and are throw aways. The Milwaukee is a tank and too big to haul around easily. The Festool is a Cadillac with a Cadillac price tag. I all depends on what you plan to use it for.
Builder302
Well-known member
I have the ct26 with the the smaller 27mm hose, will be picking up the 36mm hose soon. Use it with the the track saw and miter saw and have adapted to a PC sander and kreg jig.
Dust collection is great, works well. Glad I spent the money on it. Use it as a hobby, but several times a week it does get used.
Dust collection is great, works well. Glad I spent the money on it. Use it as a hobby, but several times a week it does get used.
cdestuck
Well-known member
I would really take a look at the Fein vacs. I've used one for years hooked up to a random orb sander and does great. Good bit cheaper to.
thooks
Well-known member
I have a Festool CT26 or so. Older model, about 6-7 years old.
Worth every single cent.
Our office was moving and we had a $5,000 damage deposit we dearly wanted to get back. One of the idiots in the office removed and spilled copier toner on the carpeting near the copier about 3 weeks before we were going to move out. Everyone knows how that stuff is like glue and sticks and stains everything in sight.
I duct-taped some large sheets of paper to the floor all around the spill. A few days later, I bought in my Festool vac. People watched in amazement while it sucked the toner and all the dirt out of the carpet. The carpet looked cleaner where the spot was than the rest....
It's quiet. It's 10 times better than a Dyson cleaning your car. Yes, it is worth it, like all Festool tools.
Worth every single cent.
Our office was moving and we had a $5,000 damage deposit we dearly wanted to get back. One of the idiots in the office removed and spilled copier toner on the carpeting near the copier about 3 weeks before we were going to move out. Everyone knows how that stuff is like glue and sticks and stains everything in sight.
I duct-taped some large sheets of paper to the floor all around the spill. A few days later, I bought in my Festool vac. People watched in amazement while it sucked the toner and all the dirt out of the carpet. The carpet looked cleaner where the spot was than the rest....
It's quiet. It's 10 times better than a Dyson cleaning your car. Yes, it is worth it, like all Festool tools.
scottydosnntkno
Well-known member
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I have the ct36ac and Planex, which are actually what's pictured in the op. For sanding drywall, it is second to none. Variable speed, variable auction, auto on off, auto clean filter so you never loose suction, etc etc
A dust collector, while it can be used as a shop vac are really two different things. A dust collector collects dust and small particles and does is very well. Festool vaca are hepa rated which means they meet osha standards for RRP lead work and other hazardous materials. That is what you are paying for, the fact that it will **** up the toxins and zero dust gets released from the exhaust.
If you have other Festool tools, then I would strongly recommend one. I have virtually the entire Festool system, sanders, routers, tracksaw, domino, makes, several dust collectors, etc. the system works amazing as a system, everything fits together and just works. With the Festool system I can make custom built ins in place in a customers living room, doing the cutting and sanding and there will not be a speck of dust to dust off of the end table when we're done.
Festools main premise is tools with dust collection, and they are great at it
A dust collector, while it can be used as a shop vac are really two different things. A dust collector collects dust and small particles and does is very well. Festool vaca are hepa rated which means they meet osha standards for RRP lead work and other hazardous materials. That is what you are paying for, the fact that it will **** up the toxins and zero dust gets released from the exhaust.
If you have other Festool tools, then I would strongly recommend one. I have virtually the entire Festool system, sanders, routers, tracksaw, domino, makes, several dust collectors, etc. the system works amazing as a system, everything fits together and just works. With the Festool system I can make custom built ins in place in a customers living room, doing the cutting and sanding and there will not be a speck of dust to dust off of the end table when we're done.
Festools main premise is tools with dust collection, and they are great at it
Garage Flooring
ALLIANCE MEMBER
On the concrete side I love my Dustless.
ALinCarolina
Well-known member
Scotty sums it up well. I have long ago slid down the slippery festool slope. I don't use my Festool dust extractor for a shop vac very often, I have an big old noisy Craftsman for that. But I use it for many other tools that are not Festool items. I use it for my Dynabrade pneumatic random orbits, Lamello biscuit joiner, scroll saw, etc. All the Festool machines are top notch. Anybody who works with plywood will love the track saw.
rice rocket
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Festooligans always harp on the "system", with the vac being the core of the system.
Fact is, the standard they follow us pretty universal, and will work whether you have a Fein, Bosch, Metabo, Makita, etc. vac. The Festool vac is the most expensive and least capable for the money.
I have had a few Festool tools, and the vac is certainly not one of their standout tools. Domino, yes, Planex, yes, RO 150, yes, ETS EC, looks promising, vac, nope.
Fact is, the standard they follow us pretty universal, and will work whether you have a Fein, Bosch, Metabo, Makita, etc. vac. The Festool vac is the most expensive and least capable for the money.
I have had a few Festool tools, and the vac is certainly not one of their standout tools. Domino, yes, Planex, yes, RO 150, yes, ETS EC, looks promising, vac, nope.
Vinko
Well-known member
I just picked up a Metabo ASR 35 HEPA for about $700. Haven't yet used it. I hear you can interchange some accessories (bags, hose and nozzle fittings) with some models of Bosch to save some dough?
Vinko
Well-known member
Also not so much for dust collection but just general shop Collection I've got the 16 gal/ 6.5 hp Ridgid. It's quiet compared to the 14 gallon/5 hp Ridgid which is ridiculously loud.
rice rocket
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Oh sorry, I forgot you PMed me about this.
I'm using the Festool bags right now actually, because I have a stack of them. The fleece bags work, the longlife bag does not.
The Bosch VAC022 bags are the drywall bags that you might still be able to find around, they've been on clearance for a while now. I think Home Depot is out of them now.
The VAC023 bags are nice, they're a fleece bag not unlike the Festool bags, but designed with wet/slurry extraction in mind.
the VAC013 is their standard bag, which are $26 for a 5 pack ($18-19/pack if you have a Zoro coupon hanging around).
http://www.zoro.com/bosch-vacuum-cleaner-bags-paper-pk5-vac013/i/G5237197/
rice rocket
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Vinko, grab this while they're around. The 19mm hose is much more manueverable than the 27mm Festool hose (or even the OEM Metabo hose, which is 36mm I believe). Great for any sanding work, I probably would stick to the 27mm or larger for tracksaw or router work.
http://www.cripedistributing.com/bo...static-locking-vacumn-hose-vac009-german.html
http://www.cripedistributing.com/bo...static-locking-vacumn-hose-vac009-german.html
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UncleJoe
Well-known member
I have about 7-10 festool tools. I absolutely love them BUT I do nt have their dust extractor. I already had a nice craftsman so I use that and it works great as anyone who has one knows. I did do a few things to make my craftsman even better and I still have less money in it than a Festool.
Since I use mine for woodworking I added a Rockler separator for about $80
With this I get almost no dust in the Craftsman which means I don't get dirty filters. I also added a power switch so I plug my power tool into the switch and when I turn on the tool it turns on the vacuum
All that said I can still see a festool vac in my future. It is just that good.
Since I use mine for woodworking I added a Rockler separator for about $80
With this I get almost no dust in the Craftsman which means I don't get dirty filters. I also added a power switch so I plug my power tool into the switch and when I turn on the tool it turns on the vacuum
All that said I can still see a festool vac in my future. It is just that good.
dkroth
Well-known member
I paid $350 for a Fein 10 years ago. Worth every cent. I don't regret it one bit. Every time I turn it on I appreciate how quiet and powerful it is.
Get the Festool.
Edit: I just checked Camel3. The price has gone up the past three years. If you wait another 6 months it's going to be $750.
Get the Festool.
Edit: I just checked Camel3. The price has gone up the past three years. If you wait another 6 months it's going to be $750.
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LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Ryan:
I am sure the vac mentioned in the article is keen and definitely check it out and listen to the experienced voices out there.
However, I wanted to share my experience.
We use and sell the Dustless Vac System. Here is my sales disclaimer: Buy from whomever you can find it the cheapest. That said....
We KILL shop vacs. We literally produce 50-150 lbs pf concrete dust per garage coating system we apply. I was renting commercials vacs through our local Sunbelt Dealer until I came across the Dustless Vac line up. It looks timid and frankly even after I un-boxed it and assembled the accessories I was still skeptical.
Well, we get nothing but great performance from these Dustless vacs. The unique technology is the pre-filter and wunder-bag system. It keeps our employee's lungs and our customer's property virtually dust free. The bag can take up to 40 lbs of dust, wet or dry and you simply pull it out, dump it and insert another bag. After hundreds of hours you might lose a little performance but the brushes are replaceable unlike most of the products on the market. You can literally rebuild the entire unit if you need to and they are USA made.
Check out the video attached and again listen to all the voices on the forum.. The Festool looks cool and might be better depending on your application. We work almost 100% in the world of concrete dust! yuk.
I am sure the vac mentioned in the article is keen and definitely check it out and listen to the experienced voices out there.
However, I wanted to share my experience.
We use and sell the Dustless Vac System. Here is my sales disclaimer: Buy from whomever you can find it the cheapest. That said....
We KILL shop vacs. We literally produce 50-150 lbs pf concrete dust per garage coating system we apply. I was renting commercials vacs through our local Sunbelt Dealer until I came across the Dustless Vac line up. It looks timid and frankly even after I un-boxed it and assembled the accessories I was still skeptical.
Well, we get nothing but great performance from these Dustless vacs. The unique technology is the pre-filter and wunder-bag system. It keeps our employee's lungs and our customer's property virtually dust free. The bag can take up to 40 lbs of dust, wet or dry and you simply pull it out, dump it and insert another bag. After hundreds of hours you might lose a little performance but the brushes are replaceable unlike most of the products on the market. You can literally rebuild the entire unit if you need to and they are USA made.
Check out the video attached and again listen to all the voices on the forum.. The Festool looks cool and might be better depending on your application. We work almost 100% in the world of concrete dust! yuk.
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Where's Shane, he'll hook you up. I drank the green Kool Aid and am happy with my CT, my tracksaw, my Domino, my sander. For the dust extractors Fein has or had a great one a little cheaper. I think but might be wrong that they changed the variable suction somewhat on the new one's. You want to look at Oneida Air too for a cyclone, they're pretty sweet too.
Builder302
Well-known member
James E
Well-known member
I have the CT36.
It is not a great performer as a shop vac. As such, it isn't worth $700.
As a dust collector, it's fantastic. Used with my Festool circular saw or router, it's great. It catches most of the dust, doesn't eject any dust and it's VERY quiet--compared to any other vacuum I've ever owned. Still probably not worth $700.
The engineering is outstanding. It never tips, it turns on and off with the tools, the hose is stored within the top of the unit when not in use, along with the cord, variable speed, quiet, and it can be used to store and transport other Festool tools.
If you have an appreciation for German engineering (and you do), it will be very tough to resist the Festool koolaid.
It is not a great performer as a shop vac. As such, it isn't worth $700.
As a dust collector, it's fantastic. Used with my Festool circular saw or router, it's great. It catches most of the dust, doesn't eject any dust and it's VERY quiet--compared to any other vacuum I've ever owned. Still probably not worth $700.
The engineering is outstanding. It never tips, it turns on and off with the tools, the hose is stored within the top of the unit when not in use, along with the cord, variable speed, quiet, and it can be used to store and transport other Festool tools.
If you have an appreciation for German engineering (and you do), it will be very tough to resist the Festool koolaid.
I neglected to mention that I have added the Oneida Dust Deputy to my shop vac systems that use bags (Fein and Festool). The DD captures the dust prior to entering the bags giving much longer life out the the spendy bags. Uncle Joe is doing the same thing with other products. Both are worth a look.
http://www.oneida-air.com/category.asp?Id={CC6B6F2A-E3D7-4F18-A53C-B5C357DFE131}
http://www.oneida-air.com/category.asp?Id={CC6B6F2A-E3D7-4F18-A53C-B5C357DFE131}
Vinko
Well-known member
Are they scandalous? Or is it just that cheapo stuff has flooded the market for so long that it's knocked all sense of proportion out of what we used to pay for quality? Even relative to cost-of-living and inflation and what have you? Not a rhetorical question, but I'd honestly like to know. What's it cost to make the Festool vac, what's the dealer or distributor price. I wouldn't be surprised if the margins on the Festool or other German vacs aren't heck of a lot more than the rebadged Emerson Electrics (Ridgid and Crafty) now made in Mexico
I recently bought a ct26. I have lots of lead paint and other nasty stuff to deal with and once you get into "true" HEPA systems, the price is pretty much in line with everyone else. Since I needed a good sander, I got a package with an RO 90 and saved $50.
I'll share some observations:
The good:
It's tough. You get the feeling the thing is well built, that's always nice.
The handle. It's comfortable and perfectly balanced, unlike a lot of "shop vac" style vacuums.
Hose management. Hoses are always a pain, but at least with the Festool, you get a place to store it.
Quiet
The anti-static hose works.
Self cleaning bag seams to work so far - no noticeable loss of suction after lots of cleaning.
There are a bunch of little touches that give the feeling they really do watch people use these things (see the link above to Core77.com) For instance, release the canister latches, which have a strong, positive action, and they spring out. So when you are done emptying the bag and replace the motor housing, the latches aren't in the way, like they always are on a cheap o big box vac. It's that kind of detail that doesn't even get considered by a manufacturer trying to hit a retail price target.
The bad:
It's not magic, it doesn't really "****" anymore than anything else.
The worst is to be a useful vacuum (not just a tool connected dust extractor) you need to make your own adapters or buy their crazy expensive cleaning kits and hoses.
If you are in the market for another tool, like track saw, Domino, sander etc, you'll save about $50 if you buy it packaged together.
I'll share some observations:
The good:
It's tough. You get the feeling the thing is well built, that's always nice.
The handle. It's comfortable and perfectly balanced, unlike a lot of "shop vac" style vacuums.
Hose management. Hoses are always a pain, but at least with the Festool, you get a place to store it.
Quiet
The anti-static hose works.
Self cleaning bag seams to work so far - no noticeable loss of suction after lots of cleaning.
There are a bunch of little touches that give the feeling they really do watch people use these things (see the link above to Core77.com) For instance, release the canister latches, which have a strong, positive action, and they spring out. So when you are done emptying the bag and replace the motor housing, the latches aren't in the way, like they always are on a cheap o big box vac. It's that kind of detail that doesn't even get considered by a manufacturer trying to hit a retail price target.
The bad:
It's not magic, it doesn't really "****" anymore than anything else.
The worst is to be a useful vacuum (not just a tool connected dust extractor) you need to make your own adapters or buy their crazy expensive cleaning kits and hoses.
If you are in the market for another tool, like track saw, Domino, sander etc, you'll save about $50 if you buy it packaged together.