Final Nail in the Craftsman Coffin.

[Link-Belt]

Superdave, how is it possible to level the playing field world wide when we can't seem to come up with a way to level it in our own land? I am a firm believer in you must take care of your own before you can take care of others. That's why those damn for ¢49 a doy you can feed a starving child in India camercials piss me off so much. What about the starving here. Maybe Americans need to take care of Americans first.

 

[litng1]

There are lazy people in all walks of life.I worked hard the first day I walked in the door 20 years ago.Don't belittle me for the job I do.What do u do for a living LS1

 

[tjsr19]

Crafstman is posting pics of American flags on there Facebook page I commented on there photo I hope all of you will do the same

 

[litng1]

I work at ford building cars on assembly line

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

There are lazy people in all walks of life.I worked hard the first day I walked in the door 20and years ago.Don't belittle me for the job I do.What do u do for a living LS1

I'm not belittling anyone - my dad was a mason for years, and he's been a carpenter for the past 20. I've got nothing against anyone who does construction or the like - what I can't stand are the unions who are in business to protect the lazy bastards who don't do half the work their non-union counterparts do.

At my last job, we did a cooling tower build in Lansing, MI. They had to put up 12' chain-link fence to keep the union protesters away from the site. If we had used union labor, it would have cost twice that of using our own in-house construction crews, plus the cost of OSHA training, plus the cost of losing the union guys who only took the job to get free OSHA training, then bailed and went somewhere else. And, our in-house guys wouldn't have been paid anything because they would have been sitting on their asses while the union guys took three months to finish a one-month job.

Now, I do safety and environmental testing. The CE, TUV, or UL mark on the last drill you bought? We test stuff for that sort of thing, to make sure it won't kill you when you use it. We test military equipment to make sure it'll survive deployment and use in multiple climate zones, we test things that float around in space to make sure they'll still work when they're 140 miles above the surface of Earth.

My philosophy in life is simple - if you want something, you work for it. My experience with union workers (which, like I said before, I know isn't indicative of every union worker, just those I've met) is that they sit around, expect to be paid premium salary, and will as soon break a tool so they don't have to do anything as they will actually do their job. I know plenty of unions require a lot of skill to be able to get into, and I've got no issue with those guys.

 

[HandyManny]

Crafstman is posting pics of American flags on there Facebook page I commented on there photo I hope all of you will do the same

Good job. Maybe their facebook page is a better place to post comments on the matter. Sears will hear it better there than they will here.

 

[sooperdave]

Superdave, how is it possible to level the playing field world wide when we can't seem to come up with a way to level it in our own land? I am a firm believer in you must take care of your own before you can take care of others. That's why those damn for ¢49 a doy you can feed a starving child in India camercials piss me off so much. What about the starving here. Maybe Americans need to take care of Americans first.

I agree with you! I wasn't saying the WE need to level the playing field, just that it'll happen naturally. People will demand rights worldwide, shorter work day, higher wages, health care, clean air and water, etc. It may not happen in our lifetimes, but it will. What goes around, comes around. Cheap - even bordering on slave - labor for corporations will not last forever.

As long as the Internet stays available to more and more people, and people become more educated and aware, the playing field will become a lot more level than it is today.

And it won't have to be completely level for America to thrive again. It just has to get a lot less lopsided. Yeah, companies will set up shop in some 3rd world **** hole when fixed manufacturing costs are reduced by 95%, deal with unskilled labor and sell a subpar product. But maybe not when the savings is much less but the labor delivers a far superior product. We'll see at some point.

 

[willhollin]

The UK sold out many years ago, bar a few specialist producers of hand tools. That's progress for you!

 

[litng1]

Well the nut on a bolt thing. And 5th grade education thing is putting me down

 

[Link-Belt]

I am going to Facebook and post a comment I will return

 

[concealer404]

In other news, Beck's Beer is now made in the USA as of very recently. Looks like i'm not buying that anymore.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

Well the nut on a bolt thing. And 5th grade education thing is putting me down

Are all the union guys who work at Ford stuck at a 6th-grade reading level? That was more a dig about a specific guy I know who fit the parameters I listed.

I know a lot of ******* engineers who spent more time in college than I did in elementary school, too.

 

[litng1]

To think only unions have lazy people is also untrue.Very broad brush you are using.

 

[tjsr19]

I own my own shop and manage a lube shop franchise the sears tool guys have most of my phone number memorized. They all know that I will not buy any Chinese tool. I am in there at least 3 times a week and I always am buying something. But I have told them it will stop as soon as the sockets are made over seas. That said the rp combos going over seas is doing it as well. I buy snap on and crafstman for my shop and I buy crafstman for the lube shops. But this will change as harbor freight has the same warenty for chinese sockets. I will not spend the extra.

 

[RangerDaleXp]

I am going to Facebook and post a comment I will return

This thread is really helping your post count. If they decide to deleat it, you may be down to 60 or 70 post again

 

[RangerDaleXp]

This thread has really fallen of topic and I never thought it would go this far ...

 

[blklegend]

These threads always turn to ****...Everyone has their opinions and like to voice them..

 

[shoturtle]

So in your head it's OK for executive compensation to be high while the working man gets the shaft and has to lower his standard of life to the point it becomes a struggle to support his family. I don't see how this helps the economy what I see is an economy fixed so that the rich get richer and the poor get more poor.

Like it was already put out there, Ford deserves his salary. He did all the proper moves to keep ford head above water. He makes the tough choices and knows the global market place his company deals in. Do you know what he knows, and have the ability to run a multinational corporation like he does? If you do you are in the wrong career field.

 

[shoturtle]

Nobody is judging anyone by their job title. They get paid based on the job they perform. I'm not understanding why this is hard to grasp.

Do you believe that everyone in America should be paid the same?



Is there an "ignore" feature on this board? Ohhhhhh there is!!!!

I think he has the belief that every one should be pain the same, and everyone should have the same. Kinda of like what Marx's envision. That no communist govt has made to work.

Even in a socialist state, executives compensation is base on the job they preform and how well they do it. I think that is fair, and nothing wrong with it. Board of exec are now tying company performance to the bonus structure. So the ones getting the big compensation are getting it base on the performance of the company as a whole. Seems fair to me. As CEO makes decisions that can effect close to 100k employees. Make the wrong decision you just screwed 100k people and their family.

 

[bobbar]

Ibtl
seriously thou. In a thread like this it never ends good. Everyone is using a board brush, cuz most of us dont want to write a 5 page report. Some of ya are too soft. Its an internet forum people. Cant we all just get along.

 

[Link-Belt]

Well, guys I am sure this thread will probably be locked or maybe even vanish soon. Just want to say thanks for the interesting debate. Not that anyone has changed my views nor do I expect that I have changed anyone else views. I just wanted to say thanks and it's been fun.

Anyway I'll. Continue to play till it's ended again Thanks.

 

[shoturtle]

I agree with you! I wasn't saying the WE need to level the playing field, just that it'll happen naturally. People will demand rights worldwide, shorter work day, higher wages, health care, clean air and water, etc. It may not happen in our lifetimes, but it will. What goes around, comes around. Cheap - even bordering on slave - labor for corporations will not last forever.

As long as the Internet stays available to more and more people, and people become more educated and aware, the playing field will become a lot more level than it is today.

And it won't have to be completely level for America to thrive again. It just has to get a lot less lopsided. Yeah, companies will set up shop in some 3rd world **** hole when fixed manufacturing costs are reduced by 95%, deal with unskilled labor and sell a subpar product. But maybe not when the savings is much less but the labor delivers a far superior product. We'll see at some point.

That is so true the field will level with market force over time. Just give it another 10-15 years. We are seeing it already, china is out sourcing as well. It just time and the balance and there will be more jobs coming back to the US.

 

[shoturtle]

I own my own shop and manage a lube shop franchise the sears tool guys have most of my phone number memorized. They all know that I will not buy any Chinese tool. I am in there at least 3 times a week and I always am buying something. But I have told them it will stop as soon as the sockets are made over seas. That said the rp combos going over seas is doing it as well. I buy snap on and crafstman for my shop and I buy crafstman for the lube shops. But this will change as harbor freight has the same warenty for chinese sockets. I will not spend the extra.

Well HF will now longer sell individual socket, just sets. And most of those are 12pt.

 

[allinon72]

I was at Sears today...they have a new section of sockets that are made in China, along with the Maxx Access and all the other gimmick tools. However, in it's regular spot, the USA sockets are still there along with USA sets.

 

[shoturtle]

Seem like everyone that bash sears have not answer my question. Will you by a 45 dollar RP ratchet made in the US?

For the ones that believe in supporting your fellow countrymen. Do you buy airline tickets form Legacy Airlines or the SW and Jetblues out there? As their fairs are about 40 dollars less in general.

 

[shoturtle]

I was at Sears today...they have a new section of sockets that are made in China, along with the Maxx Access and all the other gimmick tools. However, in it's regular spot, the USA sockets are still there along with USA sets.

The asian sockets are universal or maxi axcess. As those kits are made in asia.

 

[concealer404]

Well HF will now longer sell individual socket, just sets. And most of those are 12pt.

Is this new? As of this past weekend, both my local HFs still have individual sockets. It's not a great selection, but it never was.

 

[concealer404]

Seem like everyone that bash sears have not answer my question. Will you by a 45 dollar RP ratchet made in the US?

Absolutely not. (But i don't think you were addressing me.)

For the ones that believe in supporting your fellow countrymen. Do you buy airline tickets form Legacy Airlines or the SW and Jetblues out there? As their fairs are about 40 dollars less in general.

Airfare is a luxury i usually don't use because i can't afford it and prefer driving anyways. As such, i don't care who it's through, i go with the cheapest, taking into account layovers and total time of travel. (But again, i don't think you were addressing me.)

 

[shoturtle]

Concealer,

nope I am not addressing you.

 

[Link-Belt]

Seem like everyone that bash sears have not answer my question. Will you by a 45 dollar RP ratchet made in the US?

For the ones that believe in supporting your fellow countrymen. Do you buy airline tickets form Legacy Airlines or the SW and Jetblues out there? As their fairs are about 40 dollars less in general.

Yes I will buy the more expensive USA made product And I have only flowen 3 times in my life when I was young but if I do fly again I will do my research and fly a USA airlines.

 

[shoturtle]

Is this new? As of this past weekend, both my local HFs still have individual sockets. It's not a great selection, but it never was.

all the individual sockets are on clearance. They are not going to restock them according to the HF's buy me.

 

[geologist]

Seem like everyone that bash sears have not answer my question. Will you by a 45 dollar RP ratchet made in the US?

Considering Wright and Armstrong both have polished professional offerings below this price point, I fail to see how Sears can't seem to do the same. The thin profile Craftsman ratchets used to be made stateside. Not anymore.

 

[skiingman]

Seem like everyone that bash sears have not answer my question. Will you by a 45 dollar RP ratchet made in the US?

For the ones that believe in supporting your fellow countrymen. Do you buy airline tickets form Legacy Airlines or the SW and Jetblues out there? As their fairs are about 40 dollars less in general.

What on Earth is your point?

I fly on Southwest: they have a well paid unionized pilot group, flight attendants, and in house union rampers. As American as a company can be. Oh yeah, they are often less expensive than legacies because they have a simpler and cheaper structure.

Fly on a "legacy" airline and you'll find rampers are prison rejects/illegals/paid 8 bucks an hour and all the employees hate life after the 10th wage cut since 2001....it makes a difference in you getting where you are going on time with your stuff and the DOT has the statistics to prove it.

So I'll continue to buy products that provide a good value and are made by people who care about their employees...hopefully US products, but if not I'll try and buy from companies that at least own and operate their overseas stuff.

 

[concealer404]

all the individual sockets are on clearance. They are not going to restock them according to the HF's buy me.

Interesting, thanks! I'll have to go fill the holes in my junkyard set.

 

[shoturtle]

Considering Wright and Armstrong both have polished professional offerings below this price point, I fail to see how Sears can't seem to do the same. The thin profile Craftsman ratchets used to be made stateside. Not anymore.

Their decent 3/8 are about the 45 make with right and armstrong. Now the round head armstrong is worst then the RP in my imho. And not with the 20 dollars they want for it.

 

[shoturtle]

What on Earth is your point?

I fly on Southwest: they have a well paid unionized pilot group, flight attendants, and in house union rampers. As American as a company can be. Oh yeah, they are often less expensive than legacies because they have a simpler and cheaper structure.

Fly on a "legacy" airline and you'll find rampers are prison rejects/illegals/paid 8 bucks an hour and all the employees hate life after the 10th wage cut since 2001....it makes a difference in you getting where you are going on time with your stuff and the DOT has the statistics to prove it.

So I'll continue to buy products that provide a good value and are made by people who care about their employees...hopefully US products, but if not I'll try and buy from companies that at least own and operate their overseas stuff.

If you read the thread as a whole. People have said support your countryman for a fair salary. Legacy airlines paid higher then the economy airlines pay structure. Part of that translate into higher fair prices. That is all.

So if they belief in supporting your fellow countryman with "good pay" pay more for the ticket, and stop buying at walmart.

Not a point I follow. I believe that I should research and get the best value for my money base on my preference. I fly Legacy airlines mostly, as I am a high status customer. They offer me the best value for me. I like the larger business class chairs on long flights. And the service I get. Just my preference.

 

[allinon72]

It is impossible and implausible to ALWAYS buy USA products or services. However, when presented with a choice, I always lean and put full effort into supporting US products/services.

 

[shoturtle]

Interesting, thanks! I'll have to go fill the holes in my junkyard set.

I would not waste the time, you will strip out more bolt and get annoyed using their 12pt socket. Which most of them are.

 

[concealer404]

I would not waste the time, you will strip out more bolt and get annoyed using their 12pt socket. Which most of them are.

Eh junkyard use, but good point. I missed the "12-point" portion of the original post.

 

[shoturtle]

Actually all the standard size sockets are 12pt, only some of their deeps are 6pt.