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Finally ready to buy a welder...help!

wagon

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Great info, thanks!

Sounds like Miller/Hobart are doing their best to keep work in the states and that means something. There are lots of great hardworking manufacturing folks here and it ***** seeing companies ship jobs out, but I digress.

I can certainly understand casters and fans and the like being made overseas, but that seems a small issue compared to the china-built units.
I know those are inconsequential parts, but I don't want to mislead you into thinking that Americans are also making those parts, or that the machines are 100% American. I will, though, attest to the fact that Miller and Hobart operate plants in the USA employing American workers (legal ones, to boot), to make their products.

They even hand-wind the generators in their engine-driven machines, then the rotor balancing is done on a machine that must be 50+ years old. There is very little automation.

With many products, like boots or screwdrivers, I don't understand "American Assembled, Handcrafted" or whatever. With a complex product like a welder, with many inputs, it is more excusable.

However, back to your point, those silly parts are small peanuts. I've seen Chinese units blow a few boards in a row before the guy just buys an major brand unit. Even within warranty, for half the upfront price of a Miller, and with repairs done free.

For what it's worth, I even know a guy whose Hobart machine failed out of warranty. He called Hobart, and they agreed to cover 100% of the costs.

Even if Miller or Hobart had Chinese **** for sale, you'd at least know the company would be around for support after a few years. If Eastwood changes suppliers, who's going to be able to sell you parts?
 
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dmw16

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When I had bought my 211 (before deciding to send it back) I'd called Miller on a rebate question. A normal person working in their WI facility answered the phone and then sent me to another guy there who was as helpful as could be. I had expected a call center and instead got personal service from two folks working in the US. It really struck a cord with me.

The Miller would be my first choice and the Hobart my second. There was a used 141 on eBay. If I can scoop it up for Hobart price then that's easy. If not then I have some thinking to do. But it sounds like I can go either way and get an american product. The company I work for does all our manufacturing in the US and that is a point of pride. Granted it's aerospace and defense related so it's a given. But none the less the plants are staffed by hardworking and dedicated people committed to doing great work. I'm sure Miller and Hobart have lots of the same.

But I'll get off my high horse now.
 

wagon

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my high horse must be 30 hand by now.

I toured 4-6 miller facilities in Appleton, and that basically sealed the deal for me. ITW bought Miller, and could've sent production to Mexico, or China or wherever. Instead, they still celebrate the people who had been there 25+ years. I forgot the name of the club, but the list of people was numerous. Everyone I met was proud, beyond proud, to work for Miller.

On topic, stick with either machine, and be proud of your decision. Even if you go Hobart, which is the less expensive line (made a point not to say cheapest), you are buying a machine that keeps Americans employed, pays mortgages and helps regular people send their kids to college.
 

CGT80

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There is nothing wrong with flux core or co2 in a decent machine. Most issues come from inexperience or trying to burn it through an inadequate welder.

My only experience with flux core was with the miller 135. Some of the beads were ok and others sucked. Of course I was quite limited with it's low power output. I have not tried flux core in the 211 inverter, but after your comment, it seems like a good idea. The slag and splatter is something I am not willing to put up with, unless I have to, so flux core only gets used if it is windy or I don't want to drag out a bottle. I learned to do stick as well, but TIG and MIG are what floats my boat.

My neighbor has a lincoln that I think is a weldpak 100. It has less output than the 135 and he runs co2. It makes welds that are ok, but I much prefer the lower splatter and the way the the bead looks with the mixed gas. I haven't tried co2 with my machines or my brother's miller 252.

What machines are good for flux core or co2?
 

AldeanFan

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One other benefit of a smaller machine is the portability. My 140 is currently on loan to my dad while we restore his old truck. He doesn't have 220 in his garage.
I've also used my welder in my back yard where I'm 100+ feet from the garage and could t reach the 220 plug if I needed it.
 

kkroger

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Spend a few bucks more and get that 210MVP Hobart... no one ever said Dang I wish I had a little welder... But a lot have wanted more welder. and you can still take it to a place with 120V and you can use it on 220v for more power... You would not be sorry...
 
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dmw16

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I'm not going to spend a few more bucks. Top of the mark is $675. If I stumble upon a multi-voltage that fits the budget before I pull the trigger on the Miller or Hobart, great. If not then I'll just have to live with the decision. You can always spend more money and get something better. But for me (and I'd assume most of us) there is a hard-stop price point and that's it. There's no "spending a few more bucks".
 

Ohmthis

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OP, have you gone to a LWS to test any of these units? Before you put your money down, go to one that sells Miller, Hobart, and Lincoln. Try them all and see which one you like best. Look at the guns, which one is the most comfortable. Look at the controls, which one is the easiest to read and understand. Please don't let price dictate which machine you buy. Do your due diligence and look at a couple 220v machines. The Hobart 187 is a very nice machine and I'm willing to bet you can find them new. I have a Lincoln 180 and I really like it.
 
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dmw16

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OP, have you gone to a LWS to test any of these units? Before you put your money down, go to one that sells Miller, Hobart, and Lincoln. Try them all and see which one you like best. Look at the guns, which one is the most comfortable. Look at the controls, which one is the easiest to read and understand. Please don't let price dictate which machine you buy. Do your due diligence and look at a couple 220v machines. The Hobart 187 is a very nice machine and I'm willing to bet you can find them new. I have a Lincoln 180 and I really like it.

I haven't. We have a few shops local to me that deal in Miller (perhaps Hobart) not sure on the Lincoln, but I haven't really looked. And I prefer the Miller/Hobart since they are mostly made in the USA.

As stupid as it may sound I feel stupid going into a welding supply place and basically saying "Hi, I'm a weekday office worker and weekend warrior who's never turned on a welder and I'd like to buy one." Weird I guess...
 

nevercouldfigureitout

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I have a Lincoln pro mig 135 & it's done all the jobs you've described an more for the past 7 years I've had it and I bought it used. I often see them at pawn shops dirt cheap & I wouldn't hesitate to buy the exact one back if this one craps out. Even though I'm a miller fan for the money that this one can be picked up for I'd buy it almost anytime. A bottle lasts me a longtime so it's not a everyday tool but very comparable when I use it.
 

BD1

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You need to be a smart shopper today too. I always follow prices months before I buy. Actually, a few months ago many welding suppliers were selling the OLD STYLE 140 almost CHEAP because the NEW model was coming out. I bought the 140 to add to my collection to keep .024 wire on it. Got it for $625.00 from local supplier. Choose wisely.
 

maverick302

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I'll chime in with some feedback on the Eastwood. When I bought it I had to have the gun warrantied, twice. Left a sour taste in my mouth, but after that I've had no issues. Seems comparable to the Lincoln I have at work.
 

tlmartin84

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This...............

For most of my welding (fabbing auto stuff) DUTY CYCLE is the most important parameter of a welder. Once I get a project tacked up I want to weld it out and at least get through each bead without getting shut down by that 20 or 30 % duty cycle.

I can weld 1/2" plate with a 130A china mig if I make enough passes. And I don't care much if my heat setting is rheostat or taps. But doing one, simple, long bead on a piece of 11 ga and getting stopped at the two minute mark is a PITA.

So if you think you'll be tacking and following up by relatively long weld outs, I say either get a machine with a big duty cycle or get one that's big and over powered so that it's duty cycle, when turned down, is not a factor.


Sgt Lumpy


That is single handidly why I sold my Hobart 140 and went to the 210. I kept hitting the duty cycle and my welds went to ****.

Hind sight is 20/20 but if I had it to do over, I would have scrounged up the money and bought the 210 to begin with.
 

sberry

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Agree totally with good money followed by better, One is 600 and one 800 and the 800 is 2x better. I am all for tooling on the cheap but this is worthy of some sacrifice that will soon go by the wayside.
But having said that any welder is better than none and there was a place I could have made it with a smaller unit. This is also a place I would take a hard look at used, lots of 120v units for sale and some come with lots of stuff. 240 units are more rare on the used market, quickly scooped and people that get them don't sell. Its also nice to start with brandy new machine.
 
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dmw16

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I'm looking at a used Hobart 190 on eBay. Trying to figure out shipping/freight costs to see if it makes sense money wise. Also keeping tabs on a 141 that's on there.

I do see how $600 to $800 for twice as much (on paper, but maybe not based on my use case) is good value but $675 on the Miller is at the top. I'd have rather been at the $450 Hobart but was willing to reach if Miller or like-priced unit was worth the premium.
 

tlmartin84

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FWIW, I picked up my 210 off of ebay on a best offer deal..........

$685 shipped to my door, so there are deals to be had.
 
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dmw16

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FWIW, I picked up my 210 off of ebay on a best offer deal..........

$685 shipped to my door, so there are deals to be had.

I'll keep my eyes peeled. I'm sure there are deals to be gotten. Just not always when I'm looking to buy.
 
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dmw16

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This is a place its painful once. The payback rate can be hi if you got a few things to salvage.

I don't disagree on the value, but the payback rate only exists if I'm taking advantage of the added capabilities. But it's largely academic since I'm not going to exceed my budget. But I'll keep an eye out for a multi-voltage that is under my budget and should one surface I'll go for it.

Right now I'm looking at a Hobart 140 I found locally on CL for $375.
 
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plain garage

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I had actually purchased a Miller 211 last summer but decided it was too much money so it went back. I do have 220V in my garage but none of the multivoltage ones are in my budget.

I actually have the opposite regret as you. I purchased a Hobart 140 (drop shipped from factory) and wish I had opted for the Miller 211. I have not unboxed the 140, mainly b/c I haven't had time to tinker with my "race car" projects.

If you're set on the Hobart 140, I'm willing to work out a deal so you can get a brand new 140 for less than the market rate, and I get to use the money towards a Miller 211 down the road. I don't know where you're located, so I don't know if this will even work out (the welder is heavy), but think it's worth a shot.
 

BD1

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I actually have the opposite regret as you. I purchased a Hobart 140 (drop shipped from factory) and wish I had opted for the Miller 211. I have not unboxed the 140, mainly b/c I haven't had time to tinker with my "race car" projects.

If you're set on the Hobart 140, I'm willing to work out a deal so you can get a brand new 140 for less than the market rate, and I get to use the money towards a Miller 211 down the road. I don't know where you're located, so I don't know if this will even work out (the welder is heavy), but think it's worth a shot.

BEST RESPONSE on the entire thread !!! :beer::beer:
 

sleepy127

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One thing I don't think anyone has said anything about is the outlet you use. The manual says it is 115v/20amp. If you dont have a 20 amp circuit (i think most are 15) then plan on kicking the breaker a lot. If you dont have a 20 amp circuit look at the cost of adding one before you make your decision.
 
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dmw16

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One thing I don't think anyone has said anything about is the outlet you use. The manual says it is 115v/20amp. If you dont have a 20 amp circuit (i think most are 15) then plan on kicking the breaker a lot. If you dont have a 20 amp circuit look at the cost of adding one before you make your decision.

That was on my list of things to check. If I need 20a I will put a new breaker and dedicated outlet in. No biggie.
 

wagon

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I haven't. We have a few shops local to me that deal in Miller (perhaps Hobart) not sure on the Lincoln, but I haven't really looked. And I prefer the Miller/Hobart since they are mostly made in the USA.

As stupid as it may sound I feel stupid going into a welding supply place and basically saying "Hi, I'm a weekday office worker and weekend warrior who's never turned on a welder and I'd like to buy one." Weird I guess...

There's nothing wrong with going in and asking to check machines out. It's likely you'll only find Miller or Lincoln, or both. They might also have some Tweco machines. Not to mention - if something does go wrong, you have a face and local establishment for service, not just shooting emails hoping for the best. I would call and ask what their price is before going in. If they're stupid high, then just skip that step and get your gas there.

If you go in and buy the machine, try to get them to throw in the gas or something with the welder, if you want to run gas. Do keep in mind that they might remember you if you come in later to buy the bottle and not the machine.

Don't feel stupid - you know what you want, and roughly how much it will cost. You're not going in blind.

It's good to build a rapport with your local welding guys. Amazing how prices can drop, or how much more helpful they are once they get to know you. If your LWS places are like AutoZone, well, forget it.

At my LWS I overheard a guy come in to look at Miller machines, because he said his HF machine was a cheap piece of junk. He gave the guy attitude and said that he thought a Miller would be around $300 and that he was just going to go buy another HF machine. :lol_hitti
 
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dmw16

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Thanks for the advice. My local places seem to be Paxair and Robert's Oxygen and their (website) prices are full MSRP. But probably worth a visit. I'll also see if there's anything around my office.
 

eddiemeddiem

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I agree, don't feel stupid. I'm mainly "an office worker" too, but you might be surprised that you might get a surprisingly good response from the sales guys at the lws. Worst case is that you just walk out and buy online anyways. Best case is that they'll help you figure out what you want and teach you a bit about how to weld in the process.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jimgood

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If the absolute top of your budget is $700, you might want to leave room in there for the helmet, gloves and gas bottle (unless you're going to start with flux core).

Do you have clamps? C-clamps? Corner clamps? Maybe a welding magnet or two?
 

stsmytherie

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As stupid as it may sound I feel stupid going into a welding supply place and basically saying "Hi, I'm a weekday office worker and weekend warrior who's never turned on a welder and I'd like to buy one." Weird I guess...

Totally understandable. I was in your shoes (office nerd, interested in welding) recently. Went down to my local welding shop, told them I was interested in learning (taking a class at a local votec), told them I wasn't buying a machine right then and there, but asked if they had time to school me on basic equipment. They were thrilled to do so and spent almost an hour showing me stuff and explaining what I'd need and how it works.

As a courtesy I bought a jacket and some clamps, which I needed anyway.

Lesson I learned many years ago: Many professionals are more than happy to share their expertise when asked. If they're not interested or too busy, they'll tell you. That's fine. My thanks either way.
 

BD1

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Thanks for the advice. My local places seem to be Paxair and Robert's Oxygen and their (website) prices are full MSRP. But probably worth a visit. I'll also see if there's anything around my office.

I bought my machines from local suppliers. CASH is the answer.....
I found a package deal works best if you can swing it. If you can only afford machine for now ask them to throw in a hat.
 
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dmw16

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If the absolute top of your budget is $700, you might want to leave room in there for the helmet, gloves and gas bottle (unless you're going to start with flux core).

Do you have clamps? C-clamps? Corner clamps? Maybe a welding magnet or two?

I had figured on needing those items and they'd be in addition to the welder. My wife and family are always asking what I want for Christmas anyways...

Totally understandable. I was in your shoes (office nerd, interested in welding) recently. Went down to my local welding shop, told them I was interested in learning (taking a class at a local votec), told them I wasn't buying a machine right then and there, but asked if they had time to school me on basic equipment. They were thrilled to do so and spent almost an hour showing me stuff and explaining what I'd need and how it works.

As a courtesy I bought a jacket and some clamps, which I needed anyway.

Lesson I learned many years ago: Many professionals are more than happy to share their expertise when asked. If they're not interested or too busy, they'll tell you. That's fine. My thanks either way.

That's a good point. I had looked into classes but our local votec and community colleges don't offer anything useful to the hobbiest. The only welding classes they had were during the day for a whole semester targeted at people wanting to weld as a career. They covered metallurgy and all of that (which is good but I already took that in college).
 
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dmw16

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When you guys refer to LWS do you mean locally owned or outlets of the larger supply chains? All that we seem to have around me are Robert's Oxygen and PaxAir. They are store locations, but I wasn't sure if I was more so looking for mom and pop type places?
 

kkroger

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Could be either one. Praxair, Matheson etc or some locally owned mom and pop. There are no mom and pop operations near me, I generally get my stuff from Matheson Trigas...
We have an Airgas here too, as well as Praxair, I used to get my Torch Bottles from Praxair. it is just a Welding Supply LOCAL to you... whoever it is...
 
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dmw16

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Could be either one. Praxair, Matheson etc or some locally owned mom and pop. There are no mom and pop operations near me, I generally get my stuff from Matheson Trigas...
We have an Airgas here too, as well as Praxair, I used to get my Torch Bottles from Praxair. it is just a Welding Supply LOCAL to you... whoever it is...

Got it. I'll drop by and check them out.
 

ilovevocs

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I love welder discussions on this board.


My opinion... Two things you'll never regret spending money on in a shop is a compressor and a welder. It doesn't matter how often you use them; it's what you use them for. Buy larger than you think you need because if your passionate your skill will quickly exceed the limit of an introductory level tool. My opinions alone and I don't have the energy to quantify them today.
 
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dmw16

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I love welder discussions on this board.


My opinion... Two things you'll never regret spending money on in a shop is a compressor and a welder. It doesn't matter how often you use them; it's what you use them for. Buy larger than you think you need because if your passionate your skill will quickly exceed the limit of an introductory level tool. My opinions alone and I don't have the energy to quantify them today.

I don't have a compressor either :dunno:

But seriously tho, no question more is better and that's the case with most tools. My general approach to life is that anything worth doing is worth over-doing.

But in this case my planned spend went from $250 (Eastwood) to $450 (Hobart) to Miller 141 ($675). The $675 was the top. Could I get more features for more money? Yep, but it's more than I want to spend.

I'm also mitigating my risk. At $450 for a Hobart (actually picking up a gently used one for $375) my risk is really low if I decide it's not for me. As the purchase price goes up the risk of loss does as well.

But I digress. Baring something unforeseen I'll be picking up a 2 month old Hobart on Saturday and go from there. Sounds like it will do the trick for my needs. It also keeps domestic peace rather than the $1000 option.
 

markvfr

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My $0.02. I'm also new to welding and just picked up my setup couple of weeks ago. Got a Lincoln 180 (230V) for $599 on sale here in Canada (which at current exchange is $450US). So, there are deals to be had.

I borrowed my friends 110V Mastercraft 140 to build a work bench about a month ago, and after trying both now, its amazing how much better the 180 is.

I also bought a helmet, gloves, clamps, and gas bottle (all at discount pricing) and all-in it came to around $1200CAD. So, just buying the welder was half the cost of the setup. Just another data point for you.
 
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dmw16

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My $0.02. I'm also new to welding and just picked up my setup couple of weeks ago. Got a Lincoln 180 (230V) for $599 on sale here in Canada (which at current exchange is $450US). So, there are deals to be had.

I borrowed my friends 110V Mastercraft 140 to build a work bench about a month ago, and after trying both now, its amazing how much better the 180 is.

I also bought a helmet, gloves, clamps, and gas bottle (all at discount pricing) and all-in it came to around $1200CAD. So, just buying the welder was half the cost of the setup. Just another data point for you.

I had the other stuff as line items as well. Most of the extra stuff I'll just pay for out my general slush funds. But the big ticket item (the welder) needs to be kept in check.
 

SKFishing

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You just missed the Zoro 30% off sale. Miller 211 @ $1261, 30% off $887, less $200 rebate gets you one for $687.
 
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