Between 705 & 1200 SQ/FT FIRE Destroyed Garage & New Rebuild FINALLY!

[Fireguy50]

I've been waiting a LOONG time to make this post, 16 months.
July 22nd 2020 my garage (man castle) burned down, YouTube video from the home security camera system:

Because of Pandemic lock down orders, Canadians stopped sending lumbar to the US, the lumber cost impacted by that decision, continued supply chain shortages for every consumer good we use, and unemployment payments causing some of the original contractors lost their staff and closed, and the recession kept prices high.

BUT finally tomorrow I am having concrete poured for the new foundation, so I can rebuild at the maximum allowed square footage on my land. Slight increase from 24x30=720sq/ft x 9ft tall, to 24x35=840sq/ft x 11ft tall. I have the security cameras up ready to time lapse the progress. This won't go fast, could be another 6 months before they start building on the new foundation. But it's extremely satisficing to start the process of rebirth!
Pictures and maybe daily time lapse videos of progress if I have time to work on video editing. I have 7 outdoor cameras to capture progress or failure.

 

[LS1-IROC]

What caused the fire?

 

[captain14]

We’ve had a few other members post about their garage fires and how they rebuilt the structures.

Are you going to tie the garage fire alarm system into the house?

 

[NickH]

Definitely following this one! Sorry to see you lose your garage like that, but I can't wait to see the new one go up! I assume the fire was first detected at the point the car stopped in the street? Obviously it was dark out, but what time was it? Did it start in that right front corner, or was that just where it burned through first?

Sorry for all of the questions, but as a firefighter it's always interesting when these things get caught on camera, which is pretty common these days. At the very least it's great training material.

 

[captain14]

I’m a firefighter too, so I’m interested in the events prior to the fire and always in for a rebuild.

 

[ZRX61]

Who was the person who came out of the home 20+ minutes after the fire started & after the passerby had been knocking on the door & several minutes after the FD showed up... but was still dressed in a bathrobe?

 

[Fireguy50]

What caused the fire?

Fires are nothing like TV, because there was no death, injury, or crime; the Fire Marshal only spent ~45 minutes looking at my garage after the fire. This was the email I received:
"I have ruled the fire as a undetermined fire. I believe it may have been caused by something electrical but I can’t completely prove my theory so I have to rule it undetermined. The run number is XXXXXXX if you need the initial report. The Fire investigation report will need to be FOIA through the city attorney’s office if needed.
City Fire Marshal"

We’ve had a few other members post about their garage fires and how they rebuilt the structures.

Are you going to tie the garage fire alarm system into the house?

Yes I've been lurking and seen, anybody have a film of it burning like this?
I hope to do some time lapse videos of the build progress along with written updates. I have sad updates today.

YESSSSSS!!!!!! I will be placing a heat detector inside the garage and adding more low voltage wires buried under ground to the house. Also going to have an interior garage camera now. Fool me once, not again after this insurance and rebuild nightmare.

BUT, this is a great example why people should never do any serious toys or gasoline lawn equipment in an attached garage.
I'm bless not to be homeless!

Definitely following this one! Sorry to see you lose your garage like that, but I can't wait to see the new one go up! I assume the fire was first detected at the point the car stopped in the street? Obviously it was dark out, but what time was it? Did it start in that right front corner, or was that just where it burned through first?

Sorry for all of the questions, but as a firefighter it's always interesting when these things get caught on camera, which is pretty common these days. At the very least it's great training material.

I had a fully insulated heated & air conditioned finished garage, with internet and everything; if I added plumbing I could live there. Because I didn't have windows in the garage the building kept the fire inside like a kiln for 3+ hours it burned, Until you see that car with an unknown neighbor coming home from night shift stopping to call 911 when the outside finally caught on fire. So much of that corner is gone it's hard to tell what or where it started. after 3 hours it went up the rafters and across the attic, and down the other wall.

I didn't put the beginning on YouTube, but there is puffs of smoke seen by the exterior garage camera seen at ~3am. Puffs of smoke are boring, I cut out the first 2+ hours.
Video is from ~5:45am-6:45am speed up to a few minutes.
Fire Marshal came around 8:30am
Insurance agent showed up around 10am

I’m a firefighter too, so I’m interested in the events prior to the fire and always in for a rebuild.

I'm a firefighter paramedic, REALLY bad day when you meet your coworkers like this! *sigh*

Who was the person who came out of the home 20+ minutes after the fire started & after the passerby had been knocking on the door & several minutes after the FD showed up... but was still dressed in a bathrobe?

Bathrobe was me, no bedrooms in the front of the house, so nobody heard those knocking. My neighbor is an elderly lady who stated "I'm always up at night using the bathroom" when she seen the blaze they came over to banged on my windows. Unfortunately I have hurricane laminated security windows and doors, never heard anything outside.

I woke up when my wife yelling me the garage is on fire! I could see the flames and fire department out the back window, ran across the house to hit the garage door opener attempting to give them access for fire suppression, not knowing the length and severity of fire. As you see the garage door went up and down for 5 seconds when the opener melted, giving the fire LOT of oxygen to burn even hotter. I couldn't get the garage to respond I went out the front where they were knocking in my bathrobe because of the dangers in my garage. I had to go tell them about the natural gas line hazard, they shut it off then I got dressed. The gas was done professionally and was never involved in the fire. More worried about somebody getting hurt than my clothing, it wasn't 20+ minutes.

 

[Fireguy50]

Miss Dig failure!
Why would Comcast have a cable ran so close to my existing garage structure it's almost under?
After the linemen repair, Comcast had an inspector come out and investigate that cable. The better not charge me for the repair and outage on the entire block!
Only 2 inches from the existing foundation, I lost internet and time, try again tomorrow

I'm adding 5ft to the rear of the structure for the maximum square footage allowed per the City, 840sq/ft where I live. Might as well do it right while I'd doing this work. after the foundation work it's only 3 more studs on the side walls, nothing else changes that should make the cost that much higher. Just this concrete work, then I'll be ready for progress. I have too many project cars and projects to not just ad the extra 120sq/ft.
24'x30' up to 24'x35'

 

[sublime68charger]

also being a fire fighter would like to know the follow up on this as well.

Had my neighbors shed go up in flames this past summer. Thinking Faulty Electric panel install is what the grapevine said. the week leading up to this the power had be knocked out a few times due to storms and thinking it overloaded the panel on a surge which got this started. My house is the last pole and they are next up the line from me and I was without power 2-3 times this week.

 

[sublime68charger]

to OP I wont be posting other pics as this is your thread but thought having other Pics would maybe help you threw with your rebuild.

I was on scene and this neighbor works at the same school I due and talking with her in the yard while we are doing mop up. I remember telling her as bad as you think this is, You get to sleep in your own bed tonight remember that.

Sadley as fire fighters we go on calls where people wont be sleeping in there own beds that night.

Best on luck on the rebuild! It'll be better than before its just the getting there is the hard part.

Any Pic's of your garage before the fire at all?

 

[Fireguy50]

to OP I wont be posting other pics as this is your thread but thought having other Pics would maybe help you threw with your rebuild.

It's fine, this is a really slow build due to all the problems in 2020, a few extra photos will just make it current and less boring for others to see while on the couch at home not doing "Garage Stuff"

1st) I had to wait months due to COVID restrictions
2nd) I got stupid crazy bids due to lumber and labor shortages $50,000+ for a detached garage, no drywall or finish work, before I decided to extend the foundation.
3rd) I got rejection letters and calls: "We're too busy to accept your project at this time." or "We had to let our staff go." or "We don't have any staff due to COVID unemployment."

So I've been stuck waiting 16+ months with the insurance money in the bank, without a Contractor, or even an illegal HandyMan (attempt this without permits)

Friday I didn't get any good videos of the foundation pour, but I still got a short video made.

 

[Fireguy50]

Even day #1 was a delay, started with a flop!
Because it was Veterans Day, no inspector, no major work could be done. Because they are here with the equipment and will have a full truck of concrete, I had part of the driveway replaced because it had sunk ~3 inches over the years.

Here is that workday time lapsed under 4 minutes. I think these videos will be a new way to show a build, I haven't seen anyone post daily videos before.
Let me know if you like, or what I should change in the videos.

 

[Fireguy50]

Another delay!

No concrete pad pour today! 6 truck drivers quit the concrete supplier on Friday, not happy with their pay and COVID (either scared of the current surge killing 3+ people in their 30's at the local ER, or rebellious against the vaccinations). Probably expecting to get COVID unemployment to play videogames.

They couldn't get a truck here until 4pm, the sun would set at 5:30, and they are pouring in the dark, my surface finish would be less than ideal. Going to build the forms for the garage pad and driveway repair this morning, then return tommorow to pour.
Hopefully!

 

[Fireguy50]

After day 3 was a bust, I got my concrete done yesterday. They just finished doing the saw cuts this morning. I'm going to do a bit of washing with the hose today in the rain to help get the dust and stains off the new & old concrete.

(I added music and spliced multiple cameras views together for a better video)

 

[Fireguy50]

If was 50°F (10°C) today, I laid some 8x8x16 block to extend the stem wall around the addition. Drill the holes, cut the rebar, fill with concrete, and set the galvanized anchor bolts to hold the structure down. I measured the lay out to set the rear 9ft garage door centered on the wall. The original 9ft rear garage was 3ft off-center, I don't know if this served a purpose, or was just easier for them to build an easy 9ft wall, then a 6ft wall. I now have a 9ft rough opening in the center of 7.5ft walls on either side. I heard girls are attracted to guys with symmetry? I'm not fast, but it will get done eventually, it's only been a year & half.

 

[ambenz]

Our worst nightmare! I have a baby monitor listening to a smoke detector on the ceiling on my detached garage.
Would be cool to hear your take on measures you will be doing in your new garage to be notified of a fire.
It never happens when your expecting a fire...well usually.
Subscribed!

 

[Fireguy50]

Winter has come, I think I get 1 more day in the mid 40F's next week, when I can complete the stem wall addition, then I'm snowed in for the year. I had a desperate builder looking for a project to fill a cancellation. But I don't want sloppy work, it would take longer than 20 days to get permits and materials delivered. He's going to have to wait until April, I've already waited 18 months, I'm not rushing this now.
Building that short stem wall myself should save me 2 days labor with a contractor.

 

[Fireguy50]

Our worst nightmare! I have a baby monitor listening to a smoke detector on the ceiling on my detached garage.
Would be cool to hear your take on measures you will be doing in your new garage to be notified of a fire.
It never happens when your expecting a fire...well usually.
Subscribed!

I can really do anything I want at this point in the build. I was able to cut back the fire damage cable to good CAT6, and reestablish connection to the house network, it's buried 24in deep with the Nat-Gas. I have a new 4 port PoE switch out there, running 3 cameras and has an open internet jack for anything I want to add.

• I could add a WiFi access point for everyone to have WiFi, and have a Google/Amazon WiFi smoke detector that would communicate to the WiFi, sending a notification.
• I'm really looking at the Kidde HD135F detector that goes off at 135°F at the ceiling (no smoke), which should be hot enough for a real fire and no false alarms.
• In a perfect world I'd pull another low voltage wire out to the garage and link the HD135F detector with the house. (Current building code for a residential home is 110v smoke detectors with battery backup and interlink wire so any single detector would wake up the house before it spreads. Which I have 8 of those interconnected smoke detectors to tell everyone she's done cooking ) I could just plug the garage into the rest of the house and hope it doesn't have false alarms (like the wife's cooking )
• I could do more "Home Automation" devices, but that seems overly complicated. I'm planning on never doing this again! But a Google nest detector could send an alert notification to my phone and unlock the door for the fire department. I already have a Schlage Encode WiFi deadbolt for the house now and one for the new garage door later, New garage door opener will have the app to check if it's open and close it remotely. It's connected to my phone and Google/Alexa. Might be helpful, it will be just as hard to break in as the old door. My reinforced door jamb delayed the fire department responding to the fire. I pushed the garage door opener, but it had already melted hours ago in the blaze, took 3 guys to break in.

I still have 240v at the garage, the fire only burned & damaged ~24in of the existing cable. I was able to repair it without digging. But I don't have additional $10K budget for electrical during the first round of construction; only the rough framing the structure at first. It currently has a small outdoor hot tub breaker box for 1x 20Amp GFCI outlet for this long wait and eventual demo. I grabbed an old camera and stuck it inside the garage for testing the internet before it's tear down. I want to know it all works and can be used when it's rebuilt without buying anything new, just need to remove it carefully before it's crushed. (But as you can see, I already have some replacement tools I'll need to move out of the structure as well). I've been doing small projects during the day waiting with my 1 outlet and no lights.

I replaced 1 camera a week after it melted in the fire. Then added the rear camera to watch my shed and temporary storage "tent" during the construction, interior camera is something my wife wants, to check on me in case I'm on fire or stuck under a car.

 

[Fireguy50]

I think the Kidde HD135F is the best option with a low voltage wire running to the house, to communicate a garage fire alarm inside the house. Or a commercial bell like businesses have so the fire department knows where to go when they park on the street. That bell might be loud enough to hear in the house or good enough for the neighbors if we're not home.

 

[Jagmandave]

Good luck with your build, my wife insisted on a PTZ camera in my shop too, for much the same reasons!

 

[Fireguy50]

I got my replacement Schlage Encode WiFi Smart deadbolt and door handle ready. I have picked out the Chamberlain MyQ Smart Garage opener, not delivered or ready yet. It will bolt onto the tension rod on the wall out of the way.

 

[Fireguy50]

17 days later I get a Permit DENIED notice from the City "lacking details." After their Inspector came out and gave us the Green APPROVED sticker before the footing was poured. Too late now, it's all buried in concrete! Can't wait to deal with their questions and attitude when I have all the paperwork, and recordings of the work, I can show their City vehicle and the Inspector on site that day.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

I like the fast videos, good way to document the build.

 

[Fireguy50]

Small steps forward today, it was high of 40°F (5°C) today, so I worked on the North stem wall extension. I got the holes drilled, and rebar installed to tie into the pad and to the original stem wall, then filled the cavities with concrete, and placed the 5/8 galvanized anchors. It just needs grout between the block seems, that might wait until spring as I don't really need that completed if a contractor is ready to build a structure, grout can be done before the siding. Tomorrow I hope to finish the South stem wall if the weather is >40°F (5°C) without rain.
Then it's ready to bolt down a structure when they can build it, a couple hours a day should save me 2 days labor setting a few blocks.

 

[Fireguy50]

I like the fast videos, good way to document the build.

Thanks, I need to film a simple into for all my videos and an outro. I should go back an add audio to the first couple of videos so they have some more ASMR qualities to them. I was able to pull some video from the day without internet, not the best, but some footage did survive.


Build Update:
Today was 47°F (8°C), last possible day in the upcoming winter weather forecast, I completed the stem wall extension today. I'll do some more detailed clean up work after the old garage is torn down and I'll have to rent a 14in gas saw to cut out the old stem wall section. I decided to center the rear 9ft garage door in the building, I think they wanted an 8ft work bench on one side, but the short side gets cramped with my WWII 17x30 LeBlond lathe and Air Compressor. I find the symmetry better on the eyes.

Got the rest or the holes drilled, rebar cut & driven into the pad, remaining blocks set, concrete filled the blocks, anchors set, and went back to finish the mortar joints. The secret to successful concrete and mortar in weather with a high of 40°F and lower temps at night; is HOT 150°F (70°C) water from the house. I cranked up the safety on my tankless water heater and got the water HOT! I used the easy Quick Set Concrete (no water necessary) for mail box and fence posts. I figured it would set faster before the freezing temperatures come, and I could mix it with water for better results than dumping it dry down a dirt hole. Should be strong enough to hold the blocks down and anchor bolts from moving.

 

[Fireguy50]

This garage burned up in 2020, a long ~6 hour night inferno before anyone noticed, because it was; fully insulated, finished interior, HVAC, and no windows. After ~6 hours it started to burn through the front wall by the access door (fast time lapse video of that fire). Long wait after the pandemic and inflation to rebuild, insurance company paid us before the Country (World) closed down and prices are now doubled. The structure was only standing because it was over built with 2x8 sill plate, 2x10 ceiling joists, 2x8 rafters, and the installation did a good job keeping it from spreading quickly!

Here is Day 1 Demolition? (I have some boring concrete foundation extension time lapse video(s) from a couple years ago) BUT NOW we're actually starting the full rebuild, and LARGER she said! I should have a time lapse video for each days progress. Better than pictures, generally sometimes but not always. Garage Demolition Time Lapse Video.

 

[ScottW]

Wow thanks for that video, very crazy to see that happen and glad it didn’t spread to the house or any neighboring buildings. Did they ever figure out what caused the fire? What inside were you able to salvage? I imagine with things inside burning for a long time before it got through the wall, it ruined most everything. I will be following to see how you make it bigger and better!

 

[Dixie_Flatline]

Guess that door opener lost its mind in the fire, saw it open the door then close it again. I'm more impressed that people stopped to bang on your door to let you know, apparently a lot of neighbors from what I could tell in the video. I'd expect them to take photos for insta or start a FB live stream before doing anything else. We had to wait on some home remodeling because of Covid pricing, can't imagine trying to replace a garage at those rates!

 

[Fireguy50]

Wow thanks for that video, very crazy to see that happen and glad it didn’t spread to the house or any neighboring buildings. Did they ever figure out what caused the fire? What inside were you able to salvage? I imagine with things inside burning for a long time before it got through the wall, it ruined most everything. I will be following to see how you make it bigger and better!

I'm 90% certain it was the hidden electrical junction boxes inside the wall above the electrical panel from before we purchased the home. The Fire Marshal was here for less than 20 minutes, because their was no injuries or suspected crime, they didn't put any effort into an investigation.🫤

My 5 gallon gas can was still fine in the other corner, just needed to replace the melted spout, all of the heat went up. My MAP gas torch that was hanging on the wall, just fell into the ash (when that pegboard burnt) without exploding or even venting, but I didn't want to risk saving it, I had the fire department dispose of it. My Mr Heater furnace on the ceiling was destroyed but didn't contribute, the Nat-Gas line was rusty, but no gas leak, that was the first thing I was telling the Fire Department when I went outside; "There is a gas line, shut it off!" But no Nat-Gas added to the fire.

Actually I was able to save a decent portion of my tools, my tool chest was closed, after chipping off the melted plastic, it's rusty from the free 15,000 gallons of water the Fire Department gave me, everything low to the ground was okay after cleaning up the ash and any rust if possible. But I did lose:
1921 Model-T and a Bronco. Garage pictures before and after the fire:

https://imgur.com/a/UfLAK5Z

Probably a lesson to clean up our tools, and don't store stuff up high that is valuable. My new garage will have a fire alarm system so this never happens again. And going to use mineral insulation instead of fiberglass (which did a decent job stopping air flow and prevented the fire from spreading fast. It was a ~6 barbeque, I could faintly see occasional smoke pass by at ~2am from the PoE security camera on the garage and it burned enough to stop transmitting recordings at ~3:30.

 

[billconner]

If you keep it from freezing consider a 13R fire sprinkler system. CPVC piping. Should get a discount on fire insurance.

 

[Fireguy50]

Guess that door opener lost its mind in the fire, saw it open the door then close it again. I'm more impressed that people stopped to bang on your door to let you know, apparently a lot of neighbors from what I could tell in the video. I'd expect them to take photos for insta or start a FB live stream before doing anything else. We had to wait on some home remodeling because of Covid pricing, can't imagine trying to replace a garage at those rates!

I'm 100% certain that is when the electric wires melted just before that circuit breaker tripped. Unfortunately that fed the fire a large amount of fresh air and it started to burn much hotter and faster just before the Fire Department arrived.

I live in a great neighborhood, our kids play outside like it's the 1980's. There are ~7 different houses, with ~16 kids that play together around the neighborhood together. We remove snow, move trash bins, work together on leaves, etc.

Yes the financial situation for this was painful considering how close we were to paying off the mortgage, and the insurance company has NO sympathy for global societal/economic changes that occur after they have sent the insurance agreed payment and closed the claim.

I had a 1941 Leblond Regal lathe 17x36 from WWII I inherited from my grandfather, that I had running again after cleaning and restoring. They refused to cover that because of the cost and it's: "industrial equipment." That would have been $20,000 to find a similar lathe or pay to have it cleaned again and the rust after the Fire Department water. I still have it, I'll try to get it cleaned up, it's real American Iron, and is that "special" steel before their were radioactive isotopes in the world, new steel is not good for certain specialty equipment that can't have ANY radioactive isotopes near them, I forget all the exact details.

 

[Fireguy50]

If you keep it from freezing consider a 13R fire sprinkler system. CPVC piping. Should get a discount on fire insurance.

Sprinklers are most likely out of my abilities and budget. But I do have a Fire Detector for the garage, and a special relay that is triggered by that detectors interconnect wire. Which will setoff a commercial 6in Red Strobe Light and 6in Red Fire Bell I'll have mounted outside above the door. I've collected all the parts while waiting for construction, so I'm ready to install that. That should prevent a future ~6 hour long fire because no windows. Something like this, but not exactly.

 

[captain14]

Fireguy50,

You should add links to both of your threads so GJ members can follow along on the rebuild process in the other thread.

 

[DeeDubz]

Dang thats crazy OP. Thats a crappy situation. Im afraid of that happening to me. We intentionally over insured everything. House, shop, cars ect... I know theres no insurance co that would make you whole again. Ive heard of horror stories from ppl losing their homes, cars. Sometimes it makes it quite easy for the insurance cos to leave you hanging.

 

[Fireguy50]

Fireguy50,

You should add links to both of your threads so GJ members can follow along on the rebuild process in the other thread.

How do I do that, I don't post very often. Is there a special procedure, or just add hyperlinks? If just hyperlinks in the first post on down here at the bottom?

 

[Fireguy50]

Dang thats crazy OP. Thats a crappy situation. Im afraid of that happening to me. We intentionally over insured everything. House, shop, cars ect... I know theres no insurance co that would make you whole again. Ive heard of horror stories from ppl losing their homes, cars. Sometimes it makes it quite easy for the insurance cos to leave you hanging.

I actually had my insurance agent out to take pictures of my furnace (approve that), and increase my coverage. If I didn't increase my coverage back in 2020 all detached buildings from 10x10 sheds to a full barn that didn't have additional coverage; would only get 10% the house valve payout! My garage was worth far more than that, so I added additional coverage. BUT, pandemic, inflation, and I still ended up with half what this is costing me now. I guess it's better than a pennies.

 

[billconner]

Sprinklers are most likely out of my abilities and budget. But I do have a Fire Detector for the garage, and a special relay that is triggered by that detectors interconnect wire. Which will setoff a commercial 6in Red Strobe Light and 6in Red Fire Bell I'll have mounted outside above the door. I've collected all the parts while waiting for construction, so I'm ready to install that. That should prevent a future ~6 hour long fire because no windows. Something like this, but not exactly.

I said 13R and meant 23D. And you can use PEX and diy it. Should be under $1.50/SF by contract, probably half that for diy. Just saying it doesn't seem all that expensive.

 

[captain14]

How do I do that, I don't post very often. Is there a special procedure, or just add hyperlinks? If just hyperlinks in the first post on down here at the bottom?

I think so. Look at Deezdub reply in post#9. Someone much smarter than me should be able to answer it if that’s not correct.

 

[Fireguy50]

2 years ago I had my foundation expanded to maximize allowable square footage in my area: 840SQ/FT (24x35).

Thursday they demolished the old garage and I learned the existing foundation was poorly done without rebar or concrete from the footer to the block. Only the holes with anchor bolts had concrete, and many blocks were easily pushed over. Had to have that fixed with:

• Rebar down into the footings.
• Replace the bad blocks.
• Mortar the joints.
• Rebar the corners.
• Fill with concrete.
• Float any areas that are not level.
• New sill plate lag bolts.

It's not perfect work, but it's good enough and passed inspection. Now I'm ready for them to continue with the walls on Monday!

 

[captain14]

Good job. Glad the weather cooperated this weekend for you.