Fire Extinguisher Info

[SweetD]

Sounds like a business opportunity - reasonably priced fire extinguishers that aren't factory defects from the get-go...

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I have picked up all of mine from the flea market. 10 lb ABC units that were removed from buildings where the occupant went out of business. People who work for the FX service companies give them to their wives or GF to bring to the flea market to sell. $10 for a 10 lb one. I have taken all of mine and had them serviced in the past year. Still a bargain.

FX's get discussed from time to time.... here is ONE OLD THREAD and you will find links to another older thread in it.

I'm up to five extinguishers in the shop now, all 10 lb.

Charles

 

[jwh]

Creep,

This is a great thread. I've learned things from this, and this July I will have been a volunteer firefighter 40 years.

Thanks for sharing your experience!


John in Rochester NY

 

[creep]

Creep,

This is a great thread. I've learned things from this, and this July I will have been a volunteer firefighter 40 years.

Thanks for sharing your experience!


John in Rochester NY

Glad to share.

Thanks for your service. That is an impressive tenure.

 

[tjpavlov]

Creep, can you give us a run down of how many fire extinguishers a house should have and where they should be located?

I have a basic three bedroom, two floor house with an attached garage (think: the Simpson's house). I see a need for an extinguisher in the garage and in the kitchen. I have one in the upstairs laundry room too. But should I have one in the basement? Are there any other places that I am missing?

Thanks for your advice!

 

[Jeep Monkey RTR]

All I have in my house is Amerex... A good friend of mine pointed out to me when I asked about the quality of Amerex Fire Extinguishers said, "Go to the HD or Lowes. They sell Kidde but use Amerex to protect their stores".

 

[rieferman]

Great thread, thanks for taking the time to post! I'm on the hunt now to find out where I might be able to purchase such units and have them serviced. Shot an email to my local fire chief.

This thread should be stickied.

 

[Strouty]

all i have in my house is amerex... A good friend of mine pointed out to me when i asked about the quality of amerex fire extinguishers said, "go to the hd or lowes. They sell kidde but use amerex to protect their stores".

Buy as I sell, not as I use!

 

[creep]

Creep, can you give us a run down of how many fire extinguishers a house should have and where they should be located?

I have a basic three bedroom, two floor house with an attached garage (think: the Simpson's house). I see a need for an extinguisher in the garage and in the kitchen. I have one in the upstairs laundry room too. But should I have one in the basement? Are there any other places that I am missing?

Thanks for your advice!

I think garages, kitchens are the big ones, but the laundry room is great place to have one since dryer fires are fairly common (clean your lent traps and exhaust tubes). The basement would also be a good idea. I think bedrooms are overkill, to be honest. Just make sure you have working smoke detectors throughout your house.

We want extinguishers in places where you would likely already be there in the event of a fire breaking out. If you want extinguishing capabilities everywhere in your home, sprinklers are a great idea, but they are uncommon in residential applications because of their cost.

All that to say, if you have a small incipient fire in your home and have an extinguisher close by, try that. If it doesn't work, get out and call 911. Do NOT go run for another extinguisher.

 

[creep]

Just a point of clarification on the pre 1984 extinguishers. If you ask for one, make sure the company knows it is only for home use and you do not need it to be tagged. Extinguisher companies will no longer be able to hang their service tags on these extinguishers are Jan. 1, 2015, but for residential use they are fine since your home is not subject to inspections by the fire department.

If the extinguisher company won't do this, you can still ask for a used extinguisher that can be serviced and end up getting a good deal on a quality unit for less than what you'd pay for a new one.

 

[rlitman]

I think garages, kitchens are the big ones, but the laundry room is great place to have one since dryer fires are fairly common (clean your lent traps and exhaust tubes). The basement would also be a good idea. I think bedrooms are overkill, to be honest. Just make sure you have working smoke detectors throughout your house.

We want extinguishers in places where you would likely already be there in the event of a fire breaking out. If you want extinguishing capabilities everywhere in your home, sprinklers are a great idea, but they are uncommon in residential applications because of their cost.

All that to say, if you have a small incipient fire in your home and have an extinguisher close by, try that. If it doesn't work, get out and call 911. Do NOT go run for another extinguisher.

All good suggestions.
This is exactly why you want to buy an extinguisher sufficiently large for the job. Don't assume that two smaller ones are just as good.

Get extinguishers with a hose. The smaller ones are smaller than you think since they don't empty fully if you don't hold them vertical. Because there is a natural tendency to point it down to the base of the fire, it is almost impossible to empty an extinguisher without a hose. With the hose, you naturally hold the hose in one hand and aim. The other hand holds the valve, so the cylinder is kept vertical without thinking about it, and everything works as it should.

BTW, I always suggest that an extinguisher be placed near an exit. You never want to be in a situation where the fire is between you and your best exit. Putting an extinguisher near an exit ensures that you are approaching the fire, extinguisher in-hand, with a clear path back to the exit behind you.

 

[creep]

All good suggestions.
This is exactly why you want to buy an extinguisher sufficiently large for the job. Don't assume that two smaller ones are just as good.

Get extinguishers with a hose. The smaller ones are smaller than you think since they don't empty fully if you don't hold them vertical. Because there is a natural tendency to point it down to the base of the fire, it is almost impossible to empty an extinguisher without a hose. With the hose, you naturally hold the hose in one hand and aim. The other hand holds the valve, so the cylinder is kept vertical without thinking about it, and everything works as it should.

BTW, I always suggest that an extinguisher be placed near an exit. You never want to be in a situation where the fire is between you and your best exit. Putting an extinguisher near an exit ensures that you are approaching the fire, extinguisher in-hand, with a clear path back to the exit behind you.

Excellent post.

 

[plow]

Creep, I've been in the Fire Protection industry for 20 years. I can tell you, and the others that you obviously have a love for your job and are very knowledgeable about what you do. Good info and taking the time to explain it are indicators of a good Technician. I work for one of if not the biggest Fire Protection companies in north Louisiana (Shreveport). If you ever consider moving to my area and want to learn and work in the other areas of Fire Prot. (ie Sprinkler, Fire Alarm, Special Hazzards etc) PM me.

We start out good on pay. Great benefits, CONTINUOUS training, NICET certification testing is paid for. Not just the test, but the time for you to go take it. ALL the OT you can handle and a company truck.


What licenses do you carry?

 

[ford33]

Creep, this post just keeps getting better...
Thanks.

 

[seagravedriver]

I have been involved in firefighting and EMS for over 32 years, and this is a great thread. Funny how people will buy Snap-On etc, or MagPul, but skimp on life safety items. Spend the money on good extinguishers, (I am almost tripping over them in my garage), and you have money well spent. Garage sales, stores/restaurants/etc closing down will give you some great deals on extinguishers. I love the "railroad" units. Activate the cartridge and go!

 

[n8n]

Worth mentioning, every now and then take your extinguishers off the hook and turn them upside down, disturbing the dry chemical periodically can keep it from caking up.

Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk

 

[BlackSheepSpeedShop]

Great post, you may have saved lives and property! Thank you.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I think garages, kitchens are the big ones, but the laundry room is great place to have one since dryer fires are fairly common (clean your lent traps and exhaust tubes). The basement would also be a good idea. I think bedrooms are overkill, to be honest. Just make sure you have working smoke detectors throughout your house.

We want extinguishers in places where you would likely already be there in the event of a fire breaking out. If you want extinguishing capabilities everywhere in your home, sprinklers are a great idea, but they are uncommon in residential applications because of their cost.

All that to say, if you have a small incipient fire in your home and have an extinguisher close by, try that. If it doesn't work, get out and call 911. Do NOT go run for another extinguisher.

You have a good thread running here and have been providing great information. I've tried to steer clear of it as not to confuse the "uninformed" with varying opinions on extinguishers.

I'd prefer that people mount their extinguishers near an exit like another member has mentioned. Grab the extinguisher or get out. If you feel uncomfortable trying to use it, don't try it and just simply get yourself and family out.

You can have the best and/or the most expensive extinguisher in the world, but if you don't know how to use it or are scared to use it, it does you absolutely no good to have. When in doubt, get out. Call 911.


From another thread.

Here's a few things to keep in mind.

Know how to use your extinguisher. Somebody that knows how to use one can be more effective with a smaller one than an unknowledgabe person with a big one.

Call the 911 or the fire dept. Get them there and let them check things out. They may have a thermal imaging camera and see things you don't. You already pay taxes, use that to your advantage. Most insurance companies want a copy of a fire report anyways.

Mount your extinguisher by the door. Generally in a home garage, mount them by a door.(in a large commericial facility/bldg, consult your local FD for placement) If you feel that you can put out the fire then put it out, if not, get out.

Try it before you use it If you're going to use it, pull the pin and approach the fire. Before you get to close, give the extinguisher a quick squeeze to make sure it works. If it doesn't, get out.

Get close enough to use it. You can't be across the room to use an extinguisher. You need to be close enough to feel the heat, before you start attacking the fire. If you try, get scared or are afraid, then get out.

Sweep across the fire. When you do make the attack, squeeze the handle and sweep across the fire. Don't blast directly at the fire. If you have apan of grease buring in the kitchen, and point it directly in the pan, you will blow grease all over.

Don't turn your back on the fire. Simple enough ? Whether you put it out or can't put it out, do not turn away, back away and keep your eyes on the fire and get out.

If you haven't guessed, the most important thing, I try to stress is to get out. When we do fire safety for the schools, the thing we repeat the most is this;

Get out and stay out!

Everything in the house/garage can be replaced, you can not be replaced.

 

[sammon287]

First, I just want to make sure you know that Purple K is a high performance BC extinguisher. I assume you know that, but just want to make sure you're not relying on it should you need it for a Class A fire.

As long as it is in the green, you are good. It may have leaked down slightly since it was last serviced, or the technician may have just pressurized it less than usual (I try to pressurize them to the high side of the green zone in case they do develop a small leak after leaving the shop).

Purple K should not cost any more to be serviced than an ABC, as long as it has not been discharged. The powder will be reused, so you are not costing the service company anything beyond their normal overhead, unless you need new parts like a valve stem, gauge, etc.

Your older Badger may or may not still have parts available for it, but the extinguisher company will know when they look at it. Even if they don't have parts, they can still try to service it using the existing parts. Sometimes a good cleaning and some Vaseline is all it takes to ensure a good seal.

Yes, I know the Purple K is BC. I keep it in the garage specifically for an engine fire or similar flammable liquid situation. I have an ABC nearby. I would love to get a 20lb Co2, but they are so expensive.

 

[creep]

Creep, I've been in the Fire Protection industry for 20 years. I can tell you, and the others that you obviously have a love for your job and are very knowledgeable about what you do. Good info and taking the time to explain it are indicators of a good Technician. I work for one of if not the biggest Fire Protection companies in north Louisiana (Shreveport). If you ever consider moving to my area and want to learn and work in the other areas of Fire Prot. (ie Sprinkler, Fire Alarm, Special Hazzards etc) PM me.

We start out good on pay. Great benefits, CONTINUOUS training, NICET certification testing is paid for. Not just the test, but the time for you to go take it. ALL the OT you can handle and a company truck.


What licenses do you carry?

Thank you for the offer. I plan to be in Arkansas for the rest of my life, but if it is the Lord's will for that to change, and I end up in LA, I'll be sure to be in touch. I am licensed in portable extinguishers, nothing fancy like sprinklers or anything.

 

[creep]

You have a good thread running here and have been providing great information. I've tried to steer clear of it as not to confuse the "uninformed" with varying opinions on extinguishers.

I'd prefer that people mount their extinguishers near an exit like another member has mentioned. Grab the extinguisher or get out. If you feel uncomfortable trying to use it, don't try it and just simply get yourself and family out.

You can have the best and/or the most expensive extinguisher in the world, but if you don't know how to use it or are scared to use it, it does you absolutely no good to have. When in doubt, get out. Call 911.


From another thread.

I agree wholeheartedly. I sometimes forget that some people are not nearly as comfortable handling extinguishers as I am, so thank you for reminding me of that and helping folks out that may not be used to them.

This thread is all about helping others, and I appreciate your help mightily with what you have added. Thank you.

 

[-Brent-]

Wow, thanks for this info. I'm going to upgrade my shop and home.

 

[kaffine]

Are there any clean agent ABC fire extinguishers that are reasonably priced?

After looking at the price of a few of the clean agent ABC ones I am considering getting a CO2 and a water one for the shop. I have had to clean up after a few dry chem ABC and would rather use a clean agent. Although I am sure even the dry chem are easier to clean up after than a fire.

The water one should be cheap enough to refill I can just use water for practice then put in antifreeze solution when I do the final fill. What should I be expecting to spend to get a 10 or 20 pound CO2 extinguisher refilled? I haven't used an extinguisher since fire fighter day in first grade so I figure a little practice wouldn't hurt.

 

[MN4x4]

GREAT THREAD!!! Lot's of stuff I didn't know and I used to live 3 miles from the Ansul plant!

 

[dlcwent]

Kiddie extinguishers is all I have in my garage and home. After reading this article I am concerned that they may not be reliable. Just to be sure, I will take the oldest one and use it next week. I can find an extinguisher company near me and inquire about used ones to replace the Kiddies.

Thanks "creep" for posting this information.

Ditto

 

[fireguy]

A good thread. I do not know the requirements for commercial use in your state, but Oregon Fire Code, 2010 Edition references NFPA 10-2010. General has been out of business since about 1973. As such, General FX are not to be recharged or pressure tested. Dry chem made prior to Oct 1984 are not to be recharged, but removed from service. Water type older than 1971 are to be removed from service. Extinguishers that were manufactured by a company that is not longer in business are not to be recharged but removed from service. The yellow Generals were a great extinguisher, worked well and were easy to service. Then they started making less expensive extinguisher. But they are to be removed from commercial service, as UL listed parts are not available, nor is there any factory support.

As far as selling or giving non-compliant extinguishers away, not at my company. Those non-compliant FX will be left at the customers place of business with our labels, tags and seal removed. The Invoice notes that non-compliant FX have been left on site. Those that my tech bring back are taken apart and disposed of. Why would I expose myself or my company to selling non-compliant extinguishers?

UL tests extinguishers for controlling a particular fire using a particular fuel load, and a particular burn time. To my knowledge, UL does not have standards for pressure retention. Kidde extinguishers are not known for their ability to hold pressure. We do not recharge Kidde, or most First Alert. Odd how Home Depot sells Kidde plastic valve extinguishers, but uses Amerex, Ansul, Badger, and Buckeye to protect their stores.

At least 20 years ago, the Oregon FM did a survey on extinguisher use. Their findings, about 93% of extinguisehers used on a fire, controlled the fire until the FD arrived. National Association of Fire Equipment Distributors have done surveys since then and their findings are about the same.

 

[James E]

Creep, thanks for the thread. It's a good one and very relevant.

There is a very good segment on Jay Leno's Garage about fire extinguishers and they discuss the different ratings and what is appropriate in a garage. The expert on the segment is Andrew Halasz, who works for Amerex. I know him and he's been there for years and really knows his stuff.

In the segment, IIRC, he recommends Halon or a Halon equivalent (Halotron?) over the dry chemical for a garage because for a small fire, the dry chemical extinguishers make a huge mess. I know this from experience as my Dad put out an engine fire on his boat and the powder got absolutely everywhere. A halon unit would have made no mess and worked just as well in the engine compartment.

Here's the Amerex website in case anyone wants to see their stuff. I don't think they sell their stuff direct so you have to find a distributor:

http://amerex-fire.com/products/

Interesting factoid about the segment on Leno's Garage; they demonstrated a dry chemical extinguisher on an intentional fire outside the building. Someone from some California state agency saw the segment and fined Leno and Amerex for discharging the extinguisher outside. Crazy.

 

[kf4zht]

Don't overlook having an AFFF or Fireaid extinguisher around. You shouldn't use it on electrical fires but for wood and liquid fires they are great. Designed so you can recharge them at home (water, foam mix and a compressor), they don't make a mess and you can practice using them with just water.

I keep 2 of these around for the quick fires from welding sparks, campfires out of control, etc. Also have 2 ABC Dry chems if something gets really bad.

Don't underestimate a little bit of water or extinguisher in the right place. We were messing around at the department one day and found that a little spray bottle of water could easily put out a small garbage can fire or a garbage burn starting to spread. Catching it early is the key

 

[Joe69]

Our FE guy said that parts are no longer available for Generals. When they come due for their 6 year, we take them home. I have several, and there's a couple more at the shop, waiting to be picked.

Joe

 

[creep]

Are there any clean agent ABC fire extinguishers that are reasonably priced?

After looking at the price of a few of the clean agent ABC ones I am considering getting a CO2 and a water one for the shop. I have had to clean up after a few dry chem ABC and would rather use a clean agent. Although I am sure even the dry chem are easier to clean up after than a fire.

The water one should be cheap enough to refill I can just use water for practice then put in antifreeze solution when I do the final fill. What should I be expecting to spend to get a 10 or 20 pound CO2 extinguisher refilled? I haven't used an extinguisher since fire fighter day in first grade so I figure a little practice wouldn't hurt.

Any clean agent is expensive, at least that I am familiar with. The agents are over $25 per pound to refill.

I haven't checked what CO2 refills are running lately, but I can check for you. I am not sure how much the cost varies from one area to another, but I would assume it isn't by much.

 

[creep]

A good thread. I do not know the requirements for commercial use in your state, but Oregon Fire Code, 2010 Edition references NFPA 10-2010. General has been out of business since about 1973. As such, General FX are not to be recharged or pressure tested. Dry chem made prior to Oct 1984 are not to be recharged, but removed from service. Water type older than 1971 are to be removed from service. Extinguishers that were manufactured by a company that is not longer in business are not to be recharged but removed from service. The yellow Generals were a great extinguisher, worked well and were easy to service. Then they started making less expensive extinguisher. But they are to be removed from commercial service, as UL listed parts are not available, nor is there any factory support.

As far as selling or giving non-compliant extinguishers away, not at my company. Those non-compliant FX will be left at the customers place of business with our labels, tags and seal removed. The Invoice notes that non-compliant FX have been left on site. Those that my tech bring back are taken apart and disposed of. Why would I expose myself or my company to selling non-compliant extinguishers?

UL tests extinguishers for controlling a particular fire using a particular fuel load, and a particular burn time. To my knowledge, UL does not have standards for pressure retention. Kidde extinguishers are not known for their ability to hold pressure. We do not recharge Kidde, or most First Alert. Odd how Home Depot sells Kidde plastic valve extinguishers, but uses Amerex, Ansul, Badger, and Buckeye to protect their stores.

At least 20 years ago, the Oregon FM did a survey on extinguisher use. Their findings, about 93% of extinguisehers used on a fire, controlled the fire until the FD arrived. National Association of Fire Equipment Distributors have done surveys since then and their findings are about the same.

I figured they varied some from state to state.

We still hydro and 6 year Generals as long as they are 1984 and newer. Most of the Generals we work on are actually the ones they made right before going bankrupt in 2001. We have to reuse the valve stems, but o-ring are still available, as are gauges and handles. They typically hold a seal well compared to others, from my experience with them.

I agree about the liability of reselling non-compliant extinguishers, especially for commercial use. We do not resell ours, either, but they can be found many places like flea markets, garage sales, etc. if individuals want them for home use. We still refill them for individuals, but not for commercial use. That may change down the road, but for now, that's a great value for homeowners looking for a quality extinguisher for cheap.

That is great information about UL testing and the percentage of fires controlled by extinguishers until the FD arrived. Thank you for shedding light on that.

 

[creep]

Creep, thanks for the thread. It's a good one and very relevant.

There is a very good segment on Jay Leno's Garage about fire extinguishers and they discuss the different ratings and what is appropriate in a garage. The expert on the segment is Andrew Halasz, who works for Amerex. I know him and he's been there for years and really knows his stuff.

In the segment, IIRC, he recommends Halon or a Halon equivalent (Halotron?) over the dry chemical for a garage because for a small fire, the dry chemical extinguishers make a huge mess. I know this from experience as my Dad put out an engine fire on his boat and the powder got absolutely everywhere. A halon unit would have made no mess and worked just as well in the engine compartment.

Here's the Amerex website in case anyone wants to see their stuff. I don't think they sell their stuff direct so you have to find a distributor:

http://amerex-fire.com/products/

Interesting factoid about the segment on Leno's Garage; they demonstrated a dry chemical extinguisher on an intentional fire outside the building. Someone from some California state agency saw the segment and fined Leno and Amerex for discharging the extinguisher outside. Crazy.

Halon and Halotron are great but very expensive. We had a 9lb. Halotron come in to the shop discharged yesterday. It was around $300 to refill.

 

[Lippyp]

Halon has been illegal in the UK in fire extinguishers since 2003 as it is a CFC and thus damaging to the Ozone layer, there are a few exceptions such as Police, military and aviation but not for general use. Halon is also banned in fixed fire suppression systems such as computer server rooms etc. Only common portable gas fire extinguishers now are CO2 as the alternatives used in fixed systems here are too expensive for portable extinguishers and none sadly are as good as Halon. I had a small Halon extinguisher in my car for years.

In the UK the choices for portable extinguishers are water, foam, Dry Powder or CO2. I know exactly how ****** messy powder is as some years ago we had some little bastards break into our scout hut and set three or four dry powder extinguishers off, I have never seen such a mess and it was horrible stuff to clean up.

 

[James E]

Just out of curiosity, since Halon is heavier than air. How can it be damaging to the ozone layer?

 

[Mattlt]

Just out of curiosity, since Halon is heavier than air. How can it be damaging to the ozone layer?

I've wondered the same thing about CO2, as it is heavier than air too, how it can cause greenhouse effect?

But I won't go there...

 

[LilRichard]

Thanks for writing this up... has me looking for new extinguishers right now...

 

[kaffine]

Just out of curiosity, since Halon is heavier than air. How can it be damaging to the ozone layer?

Because it breaks down into carbon, fluorine, chlorine, and bromine, depending on which Halon it is. Often times when talking about halon it will have a 4 digit number after it that signifies how many of each element it has.

Also just because it is heavier than air does not mean it will not get mixed into the atmosphere with all of the air movement. If the atmosphere separated out based on weight then we would wouldn't have oxygen to breath as enough things that are heavier than air have been released into the atmosphere to have displaced from ground level.

 

[Ironcrow]

OK, what's the bottom line? If I'm the kind of guy with Snap-on tools, a lift and other expensive things in a nice garage with an epoxy floor...you know the drill...and I've decided to get the best for my garage. What do I get? Ansul or Amerex I guess. Do I get CO2 or ABC powder? One of each? More than one of each? One huge one or a dozen small ones? Halon? One for each garage bay? One for each hand? What's reasonable without being ridiculous?

 

[creep]

OK, what's the bottom line? If I'm the kind of guy with Snap-on tools, a lift and other expensive things in a nice garage with an epoxy floor...you know the drill...and I've decided to get the best for my garage. What do I get? Ansul or Amerex I guess. Do I get CO2 or ABC powder? One of each? More than one of each? One huge one or a dozen small ones? Halon? One for each garage bay? One for each hand? What's reasonable without being ridiculous?

If you can afford a clean agent like Halon 1211 or Halotron, go with that in case your high end stuff ever catches fire. It doesn't have nearly the mess a dry chem extinguisher does. The size and quantity of the extinguisher(s) is dependent on the size and layout of your shop.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to keep a CO2 around for BC fires where you don't want to discharge a $300+ clean agent extinguisher. A water can is also a good idea.

The bottom line from my perspective is to get a reputable extinguisher company out to your shop and have them set up what they recommend within your budget.

 

[galute]

This is a great thread with some very good information. I applaud creep and others for their level of commitment to the safety and well being of their fellow man. Thank you brothers for your service.

I would like to point out one thing though. If you have no fire equipment at all and all you can afford is that Kidde you saw for a buck at a yard sale, by all means grab it. It could very well save your property or life. Upgrade when you can. Even cheapo's are better than nothing. VRVFD Captain/retired.