Fire prevention and supppresion

[e-tek]

So, after setting a paper wheel cover ablaze while welding on the 56 Chevy, I thought I'd ask what precautions others take with their flamables and what interesting fire suppression techniques you employ (besides a fire extinguisher on the wall!).

 

[nissan_crawler]

griots garage has some automatic extinguishers that hang from the ceiling. I tried to find them elsewhere, and couldn't. I think I'm going to put two in my garage.

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/in+your+garage/garage+accessories/ceiling+mounted+unmanned+fire+extinguisher.do

IF you're gone, hopefully it will at least slow it down. If you're there, and it gets too bad to stay and use a hand extinguisher, again, maybe it will at least slow it down until the firemen get there.

Edit: I also finally found a hose nozzle that doesn't leak, and it stays on a hose, with the faucet open at all times. The hose sits on on a peg that is only slightly angled up, with nothing on the end, so the nozzle can be grabbed, and you can take off with it.

I keep 3 extinguishers in my little 23x19 garage, one at each door, and the third sits next to whatever i'm working on.

 

[V-10 Killer]

I really wish I had some solid answers to put into this post. One corner of my attached garage has a Strong Hold style box (mainly to keep childrens curiosity at bay) that I keep all of my reloading supplies in. The wife knows if there's ever a fire, make sure the firefighters know to either keep that corner super wet or evacuate the area and let it blow!

 

[HOTFR8]

Keep an Old Wet Towel handy when you weld like that. Just a quick simple thing to do.

 

[tatra]

at work we have portable watercans the you pump and a stream of water comes out.......similar to what forest fire fighters use except it is just a can with a basic bicycle pump style.....another idea would be get a garden sprayer, fill with water and pump up before starting work............bucket of water and wet towel is good idea too............

 

[cowboyjosh]

I have 2 of the Griots Garage Automatic Fire Extinguishers hanging in my garage, and I also have 2 Kidde extinguishers in the garage (one by the door to the house, the other by the service door). Aside from ways of putting out a fire, I really don't do anything like most of you fellas like welding and working on cars, the most I'll do is detail out my cars or drink beer and watch TV and otherwise just hang out. Every once in awhile I'll build or repair something electronic on the work bench and solder. Today filling up my snowblower with gas in the garage is probably the riskiest thing I do that could have started a fire.

 

[Crusty Nut]

Not to sound like captain obvious, but for starters don't weld around paper.
I've done it too, but it should be avoided and when it can't be avoided, it is to be expected.
You have worked around shops for much of your life. It really is just common sense stuff. Good housekeeping is the best prevention. Also, at the end of the workday, I will spend 15-20 minutes cleaning up, planning the next days work, or just staring at my handiwork after any hot work has been finished for the day. This will give any loose embers their big chance to make something happen while in your presence.

 

[mad57]

I bought 2 older water fire ext from a yard sale for 3 bucks and you fill them with water and put air into them via valve stem they work great how do i know same thing you did i installed a pulling pot in the floor and had put a big wad of paper towel to absorbe all the water from the core drill and forgot about it and after welding a project i smelled smoke and looked down and had a mini pit fire

 

[Charles959]

One other piece of fire safety gear to consider is a fiberglass blanket:

http://www.pyroshield.com/fire_protection.html

A good source for general fire safety gear:

http://www.firesafetysource.com/

 

[NUTTSGT]

One other piece of fire safety gear to consider is a fiberglass blanket:

http://www.pyroshield.com/fire_protection.html

A good source for general fire safety gear:

http://www.firesafetysource.com/

Did you join just to post that ?


A wet towel will go a long ways when welding or using a torch.

 

[Charles959]

No, but I am not surprised by your question. I have seen many spam postings in the GardenWeb appliance forums, and almost all of them involve first postings that link to a product.

I have been interested in safety for more than thirty years, and thought I would try to spare someone the mess of cleaning up after an unnecessary solid chemical fire extinguisher discharge in their kitchen. I have one of the small fiberglass blankets in a tube in my kitchen.

Those of you who have solid chemical fire extinguishers that are not full of sodium bicarbonate should try to find out just what the chemical is and how difficult the cleanup is likely to be. I regret having bought the extinguisher I own, which has chemicals the maker will not reveal.

Next time you visit a big box store, take a look at the brands of fire extinguishers they sell, then look at what they use to protect their own building. So far, I have not seen a match at Home Depot, which sells Kiddie but uses Badger.

 

[HOTFR8]

A water stored pressure extinguisher would be ok to use for most fires. You could refill it yourself and pump it up with a compressor. No good for Electrical or Fuel fires.

 

[R-132 Fan]

A big thing is don't store gasoline in your garage if you can avoid it. I keep all my fuel inside of an old truck sitting off a ways from my building. A small fire that gets to a can of gasoline becomes a major fire in a few seconds.
Once I finish my shop build I am going to build a small building away from everything else for any flammable materials.
I had one of those fire extinguishers from a big box store, but the powder got solid from sitting too long and wouldn't come out. The extinguishers the big box stores sell are not refillable. Rather then buy another extinguisher that couldn't be refilled, I went to a local fire extinguisher service company and bought a used one that is refillable and that I can have the tag on it updated every year for $7.00.
I have a few sheets of heavy galvanized metal that are 20" by 16". I set them up on edge around where I am welding or cutting and they stop sparks from rolling off across the floor. Laying them down under steel that is being torch cut also saves the concrete from scarring or scorching. I also keep things well swept up so no dead leaves or drifts of dust can catch on fire.

 

[1redTA]

The important thing to know about fire is that when you remove the air it usually goes out. There are four types of extinguishers A,B,C and D. The A is ordinary combustibles B is flammable/combustible liquids, C is electrical and D is combustible metals.

Water is OK with A. The ABC is the most common but a good CO2 extinguisher is nice to have because of the lack of powder/mess. I keep a Halon and ABC in my garage for emergencies. The "water can" is nice to have it is easy to reserve with water and pressurized air.

 

[tigmusky]

kinda hard to see . sprinkler system with fire dept. conn. and all ways a few pressure water cans



Daye


I take that back.. impossible to see

 

[e-tek]

Not to sound like captain obvious, but for starters don't weld around paper.
You have worked around shops for much of your life. It really is just common sense stuff. Good housekeeping is the best prevention.

You're absolutley right captian Obvious!! I know better. I obviusly forgot I had papered the wheel....I normally take a look around before welding/grinding.

Also, at the end of the workday, I will spend 15-20 minutes cleaning up, planning the next days work, or just staring at my handiwork after any hot work has been finished for the day. This will give any loose embers their big chance to make something happen while in your presence.

One of the best (and oldest) shop precations. Always a good practice!

One other piece of fire safety gear to consider is a fiberglass blanket

I really need a welding blanket....I'll be buying one this week. I think just having it on the welder would be another remidner to think a bout fire before welding!

A big thing is don't store gasoline in your garage if you can avoid it. I keep all my fuel inside of an old truck sitting off a ways from my building. A small fire that gets to a can of gasoline becomes a major fire in a few seconds.
Once I finish my shop build I am going to build a small building away from everything else for any flammable materials.

VERY IMPORTANT practice. I do not keep gas (cans) in the shop - always kept in the garden shed. PROBLEM is: I have about 30-40 gallons of Laquer Thinners, Reducers, solvents and paints of all sorts. I keep them in the "paint Corner", under a bench, well away from welding (usually..). but still haven't found a suitable METAL/STEEL container/closet to keep it all in. Where does Jack find those???

I had one of those fire extinguishers from a big box store, but the powder got solid from sitting too long and wouldn't come out. The extinguishers the big box stores sell are not refillable. Rather then buy another extinguisher that couldn't be refilled, I went to a local fire extinguisher service company and bought a used one that is refillable and that I can have the tag on it updated every year for $7.00.

Good to know that they go bad - bet lots of guys have old ones hanging on the wall (I have one that is likely useless). But also, how many guys never refill their re-fillable extinguishers.....

I have a few sheets of heavy galvanized metal that are 20" by 16". I set them up on edge around where I am welding or cutting and they stop sparks from rolling off across the floor. Laying them down under steel that is being torch cut also saves the concrete from scarring or scorching. I also keep things well swept up so no dead leaves or drifts of dust can catch on fire.

All VERY GOOD PRACTICES!!

kinda hard to see . sprinkler system with fire dept. conn. and all ways a few pressure water cans

I'll be getting a water can one too. Something that, had the fire caught on to more paper, would have quickly been beyond the "stomping" stage....

Sometimes you wonder how much your posts contribute....but due to you're suggestions I'll be buying a fire/welding blanket, water sprayer and a couple more REFILLABLE extinguishers this week. As well, I'm gonna buy a new metal storage container for all my flammables - rather than continue to wait for a cheap used one!

 

[MP&C]

I have the extinguisher mounted on the "possible" ignition source.

 

[torqueman2002]

...always kept in the garden shed. PROBLEM is: I have about 30-40 gallons of Laquer Thinners, Reducers, solvents and paints of all sorts. I keep them in the "paint Corner", under a bench, well away from welding (usually..). but still haven't found a suitable METAL/STEEL container/closet to keep it all in.

Good question. I don't have that much in the way of flammable liquids still in the garage, but enough that I would like a good solution. I've looked at the yellow 'safety' cabinets; but too expensive.
What about a decommissioned refrigerator? Air tight, insulated and cheap.

 

[Charles959]

Pennsylvania State University has a pdf file about cabinets for storing flammable liquids (link is for direct download of pdf file):


http://www.ehs.psu.edu/help/info_sheets/flammable_liquid_storage_cabinet_faq.pdf

 

[torqueman2002]

Found this link for flammable liquid storage.

http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/shop/archive/2009/01/29/Flammables-Cabinet.aspx

 

[Charles959]

Thank you. Those plans do appear to meet the specs. I have been told that 1 inch thick plywood is not readily available in some places, but it would probably be worth ordering, considering that a good commercial wood flammables cabinet that is smaller than the one in the plans costs over $400 dollars:

http://www.labsafety.com/search/SC8021/24535579/65503/?isredirect=true

 

[e-tek]

I just saw that our Peavey Mart (Canada) has a metal closet on sale for $149. SUPER THIN metal for sure, but steel keeps the sparks out! I'll be looking at them tomorrow. The good thing about building one as per those plans, is that I could fit it under my bench.......

 

[MP&C]

This full size flammable locker on the left was purchased for 250 on ebay.

With businesses closing the past few years, it has just introduced more such items on the online market and at local auctions. They make the flammable lockers down to the "shelf" sizes, so I would think you could get the real deal to fit under your workbench for about the same or just a bit more than a super thin metal cabinet.

 

[e-tek]

So I bought the big Peavey Mart locker, but as it was, I really don't have the room for it!! D'oh! I could have MADE room, but only at the expense of bench space....

So I returned it (or I will...) and instead bought a half-size one that fits under the bench and is even more fire-proof (lock, bigger lips on doors). I was able to get everything in there that I was worried about.

 

[turbowoodworker]

I would like to resurrect this older thread on fire prevention and ask for any updates and ellaborations. I am building a shop and would like to think in a preventative mode.
Two questions:

1. Do any of you hobbyists have experience with the true flammable cabinets like Justrite etc? There is a good link above to Univ of Penn. and their requirements. I know that professional shops are governed by OSHA and other agency rules, and maybe that is THE level we should all strive to meet, but given costs, are any of you hobbyists reaching these levels of safety?

2. I've seen the Griot Garage automatic extinguishers and they are pricey. But I want to protect my equipement too. What I am concerned about is after searching all over, I can't seem to find these devices for sale any where but Griot's. Why is that? Any body have experience with them or any one find them elsewhere?

Thanks in advance.

Rick

 

[trainer]

Whatever you use, put it next to the door! When a fire breaks out you go to the exit and then back to the fire location, with the door at your back. You always want to have yourself between the fire and your escape route when fighting a fire.
It's very easy to get tunnel vision when fighting a fire and things will get out of hand.
There is only one thing in your shop that cannot be replaced....you!

I've been a firefighter for 24 years.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I would like to resurrect this older thread on fire prevention and ask for any updates and ellaborations. I am building a shop and would like to think in a preventative mode.
Two questions:

Thanks in advance.

Rick

Rick, Trainer has given you some good information about extinguisher placement. If you want to go one step farther, check with your local FD and see if they offer any classes on their use or phamplets on them. You can also inquire for some general knowledge about them or where to buy some that can be recharged.


I'll also throw this out there, I applaud you for wanting to take prevenative measures but the best thing you can do make sure your insurance is good to go. Why ? It doesn't matter the precautions you take or how well you do things, if fire wants what you have, it's going to get it.

 

[rburke65]

I was at SAMs Club just 2 weeks ago and bought 2 six pound ABC extinguishers. Been looking at them forever and with the new shop, now was the time. Hopefully I'll never need them.

 

[fireguy]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131928

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106294

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92817

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85067

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1040566#post1040566

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22561

Ask Griots about the cubic feet each of the automatic fire extinguishers will protect. Also, ask if they meet any UL standard.

 

[kelpaso1]

Whatever you use, put it next to the door! When a fire breaks out you go to the exit and then back to the fire location, with the door at your back. You always want to have yourself between the fire and your escape route when fighting a fire.
It's very easy to get tunnel vision when fighting a fire and things will get out of hand.
There is only one thing in your shop that cannot be replaced....you!

I've been a firefighter for 24 years.

Excellent advice! I put mine at the man door only because that's was the only place on the wall to put it. I never thought about having the "back door escape route" or how things can get out of hand and turned around in a fire, and then you end up in a bad situation. Thanks, that could have saved a life!.

On the same topic, I bought a new 5lb ABC from a fire safety store a year and two months ago and haven't had it inspected. I realize it should be done every year? How do they inspect/test them? Do they discharge them and then refill? It would be very educational if you could inform us from the "professional" point of view.

 

[Drew_flux]

I like a C02 extinguisher. you dont have to clean up the mess afterwards.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Thanks NUTTS, great advice. And I am on top of the insurance thing.

 

[Sureshot]

I have an extinguisher at every exit. I also keep all the gas, diesel, propane etc in a shed away from the shop.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I like a C02 extinguisher. you don't have to clean up the mess afterwards.

Very true ! More expensive, but if you have ever cleaned up after one of those dry powder extinguishers, you will appreciate it.

I must have an additional water type because CO2 extinguishers don't work on wood fires (Class A).

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

After setting the parts washer on fire myself by weld spatter falling into it, I try to keep the lid shut when not in use. It usually get left open by someone else, though - seems like I shut the dang thing once a day even though haven't used it in weeks.....

 

[stingry]

So I bought the big Peavey Mart locker, but as it was, I really don't have the room for it!! D'oh! I could have MADE room, but only at the expense of bench space....

So I returned it (or I will...) and instead bought a half-size one that fits under the bench and is even more fire-proof (lock, bigger lips on doors). I was able to get everything in there that I was worried about.

Good move e-tek!! This is what happens when you store flammables improperly! I had all my paints, reducers, etc. in a WOOD cabinet. Apparently just the right chain of events caused a spontaneous combustion and the rest is history! Thankfully I had good insurance!!

View media item 17849
This is what I use now, yes they are expensive but I never want to go thru another shop fire.

View media item 25919
Cheers
Steve

 

[turbowoodworker]

Thanks to NUTTS and Fireguy for the good info and the links. Took me an hour to get through it all but there is some great info there. I am planning my new shop and safety is just as important as efficiency and good tools, if not moreso. And Stingray, those Justrites look like they will do the job.

 

[JamieK]

Another tip is to always put your oily rags into metal safety trash cans with lids. I've heard of rags soaked in linseed oil spontanously combusting hours after being thrown away. Not sure if other oils or chemicals can do that, but why take the chance.

Speaking of fire watches, how long should there be someone in the garage after welding or grinding? After how long is it safe to leave?

 

[bgarrett]

I have not seen vertical placement mentioned.
Place extinguishers on the wall at a height between your knees and your shoulders.
You do NOT want to lift an extinguisher over your shoulder height or over your head.
One heck of a lot of extinguishers are fastened at eye level and some of those eyes are on tall guys!
Notice everywhere you go and you will see that MOST placements violate common sense and the fire code.
Back to the original question, I am thinking about a sprinkler system for my new building.,

 

[Worsedog]

On the same topic, I bought a new 5lb ABC from a fire safety store a year and two months ago and haven't had it inspected. I realize it should be done every year? How do they inspect/test them? Do they discharge them and then refill? It would be very educational if you could inform us from the "professional" point of view.

We have hundreds of fire extingishers at work. The "yearly" inspection consists checking the gauge, and inverting the extingisher and smacking the bottom with a mallet to insure the powder is "loose" then a new sticker.

The six year service is a discharge and recharge. At twelve years they are supposed to be hydrostatically tested. For a 5 pounder it is cheaper for me to replace it. We donate them to the county fire service and they use them for their training classes. Of course a few make it to the range to get shot at