Fireball table- NOT impressed

[FL Guy]

Update in post #69 for those who are following and asked to keep y’all updated.



I ended up ordering the Fireball table topper for about $1100 shipped.

Even though they claim the aluminum frame is machined, the plates are not level. they are about .018 to low. A square sliding over the plates catches the edge of the opposite plate.

Sent fireball an email. They told me they are willing to sell me some shims and give me a 10% discount off the purchase of the shims.

I responded back asking for clarification if it was 10% off the shims or 10% off of my order and it was confirmed it was 10% off of the shims. I responded that I’m a little confused after spending this much money that I would have to spend more money to fix your quality control issues.
I also stated that the table in question is advertised on their website as being 3/4 of an inch thick. The table is actually .69 inches thick. If they want to drill precision holes 2 inches on center at 5/8 of an inch in diameter then you would think the plate would actually be 3/4 of an inch thick and not .69.

I’m waiting on their response.. But yea, I’m not happy one bit.
Below is a YouTube video that I sent to them showing the issue with the plates not being level.

Am I asking too much here or over reacting?

Uneven plates

Plate thickness

 

[gatewaysysop]

Sent fireball an email. They told me they are willing to sell me some shims and give me a 10% discount off the purchase of the shims.

I responded back asking for clarification if it was 10% off the shims or 10% off of my order and it was confirmed it was 10% off of the shims. I responded that I’m a little confused after spending this much money that I would have to spend more money to fix your quality control issues.

That sounds like some ******** on their part. I probably wouldn't have ever bought from them to begin with, but I certainly won't now if this is how they treat customers with QC issues. No sense in spending money with folks who can't stand behind their product for even five minutes.

 

[Retroman]

Fireball offers a 60 day warranty I would be using it.

 

[Loga_3]

NFG.

 

[mike93lx]

I want to like fireball because Jason makes some cool stuff, but this kind of thing makes it tough

 

[Boosted1]

I can't believe they would ask you to pay for shims.
And yes I would also expect that the advertisement would represent true thickness.

 

[FL Guy]

I'm still waiting a response to my last email.

 

[FL Guy]

I spoke with Jason on the same day I sent customer support the email which was on Tuesday. Jason said they do not sell shims for these tables. But customer service says they do sell shims and they want to offer me a 10% discount. I read lots of good things about this company which made me decide to go with them but damn it doesn't seem like the right hand knows what the left hand is doing.
I should not have to use pieces of paper to make a $1000 table level

 

[FL Guy]

Fireball offers a 60 day warranty I would be using it.

This is to be determined!

 

[FL Guy]

Can I make the table level? I’m sure I can. But why should I be doing that for a brand new table?

I do want to like the table. It fits perfectly on top of my work table.

All I know is shipping to me was $170. If this table were to go back that’s another $170 which will make the company be out-of-pocket $340.
If I decide to give them another shot and have them send me another table, that would bring the shipping cost up to $510.

Would you guys present the offer to see if they be willing to extend a store credit for about $300 or $400 (as this will cost them probably $150 out of their pocket) for me to deal with the little lip and discrepancy of the thickness of the plate or would you just wash your hands of the entire situation and be done with it and look elsewhere for a table?
I’ve never run into a situation like this before and would like to hear what other folks have done that have been in this situation.
I am by no means a machinist or a professional welder. I just do this on the side to tinker around the house and that’s it.

 

[mike93lx]

Can I make the table level? I’m sure I can. But why should I be doing that for a brand new table?

I do want to like the table. It fits perfectly on top of my work table.

All I know is shipping to me was $170. If this table were to go back that’s another $170 which will make the company be out-of-pocket $340.
If I decide to give them another shot and have them send me another table, that would bring the shipping cost up to $510.

Would you guys present the offer to see if they be willing to extend a store credit for about $300 or would you just wash your hands of the entire situation and be done with it and look elsewhere for a table?
I’ve never run into a situation like this before and would like to hear what other folks have done that have been in this situation.
I am by no means a machinist or a professional welder. I just do this on the side to tinker around the house and that’s it.

They should be jumping to make it right. I'd give them that chance then decide.

I would assume the cs person you talked to is a low level rep but now that Jason is involved, there is no excuse

 

[FL Guy]

They should be jumping to make it right. I'd give them that chance then decide.

I would assume the cs person you talked to is a low level rep but now that Jason is involved, there is no excuse

When you call their customer service number it seems like the phone call goes to a call center. The customer service rep that I was speaking with on the phone was actually calling me from her personal cell phone as I don’t think they have a landline.
Customer service, and Jason were notified at the same time, but I’m not sure if Jason knows of the 10% shim discount that was extended to me.

 

[BD1]

DAM ! That really ***** . What about the 60 day money back warranty ? You have to pay return shipping ? That's Bullshlt. I wonder why they don't say anything about return shipping ?
60 Day Money Back Guarantee:

''Customers may return any products purchased from this Site for any reason within 60 days of delivery. Consumable Products are warranted, at the time of sale, only against defects in workmanship or materials that prevent their use. Consumable products are goods reasonably expected to be used up or damaged during use, including but not limited to tabs, scraper blades, copper/aluminum jaws, magnets.''

Fireball Lifetime Warranty

Fireball Tool Warranty Information Fireball Tool is pleased to offer a special lifetime warranty as well as a limited 60 Day Money Back Guarantee covering most Fireball Tool branded products. Fireball Tool branded products are henceforth subject to the following terms and conditions. Customer...

fireballtool.com

 

[mike93lx]

DAM ! That really ***** . What about the 60 day money back warranty ? You have to pay return shipping ? That's Bullshlt. I wonder why they don't say anything about return shipping ?
60 Day Money Back Guarantee:

''Customers may return any products purchased from this Site for any reason within 60 days of delivery. Consumable Products are warranted, at the time of sale, only against defects in workmanship or materials that prevent their use. Consumable products are goods reasonably expected to be used up or damaged during use, including but not limited to tabs, scraper blades, copper/aluminum jaws, magnets.''

Fireball Lifetime Warranty

Fireball Tool Warranty Information Fireball Tool is pleased to offer a special lifetime warranty as well as a limited 60 Day Money Back Guarantee covering most Fireball Tool branded products. Fireball Tool branded products are henceforth subject to the following terms and conditions. Customer...

fireballtool.com

Someone has to pay for the shipping. Either everyone pays more or the affected user pays it. We've been spoiled on shipping costs being hidden by amazon

 

[FL Guy]

DAM ! That really ***** . What about the 60 day money back warranty ? You have to pay return shipping ? That's Bullshlt. I wonder why they don't say anything about return shipping ?
60 Day Money Back Guarantee:

''Customers may return any products purchased from this Site for any reason within 60 days of delivery. Consumable Products are warranted, at the time of sale, only against defects in workmanship or materials that prevent their use. Consumable products are goods reasonably expected to be used up or damaged during use, including but not limited to tabs, scraper blades, copper/aluminum jaws, magnets.''

Fireball Lifetime Warranty

Fireball Tool Warranty Information Fireball Tool is pleased to offer a special lifetime warranty as well as a limited 60 Day Money Back Guarantee covering most Fireball Tool branded products. Fireball Tool branded products are henceforth subject to the following terms and conditions. Customer...

fireballtool.com

Trust me if this table does end up going back and they try to refund me anything less than what I paid to have this table shipped to me. I’ll just file a charge back on the credit card. It’s not a situation where I have buyers remorse. I pay for a product based on what it was advertised as and unfortunately did not get it. One could believe it’s called false advertising, but I understand everybody makes mistakes. That’s why I was looking to see if anybody has been in my situation. What has came from it because I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt to try and make it right. Hopefully today I will get an email from them because yesterday it was almost at the close of business for them when I sent the last email saying that I was confused about having to pay for this and that .

 

[FL Guy]

Someone has to pay for the shipping. Either everyone pays more or the affected user pays it. We've been spoiled on shipping costs being hidden by amazon

That someone would have to be Fireball I would think.

 

[mike93lx]

That someone would have to be Fireball I would think.

They may pick up the bill, but the cost will be passed along

 

[aka Larry]

I'm sure you can shim it to make it right, even though you shouldn't have to. But the plate thickness being that far under? That's bullsh*t, and I'd be sending it back.

 

[Shoreline_]

I'm not a machinist but it interest me. 0.750" is 24/32 and 0.69 is 22/32. The difference is 2/32 or a 1/16 undersized. What the spec on their sales brochure? None? Some people wouldn't care about a 1/16 undersized some people would. In welding, is a 1/16" of an inch thickness on a table a lot? I don't know why they wouldn't give you a tolerance range in the fine print. Maybe they don't advertise a thickness tolerance because they can't control it. They could say +/- 0.125 to cover their ***. But just seeing what McMaster is - all their basic steel bars at 3/4" have a +0.000" - 0.013". I think -0.063" is excessive!

 

[Nofries]

I'm not a machinist but it interest me. 0.750" is 24/32 and 0.69 is 22/32. The difference is 2/32 or a 1/16 undersized. What the spec on their sales brochure? None? Some people wouldn't care about a 1/16 undersized some people would. In welding, is a 1/16" of an inch thickness on a table a lot? I don't know why they wouldn't give you a tolerance range in the fine print. Maybe they don't advertise a thickness tolerance because they can't control it. They could say +/- 0.125 to cover their ***. But just seeing what McMaster is - all their basic steel bars at 3/4" have a +0.000" - 0.013". I think -0.063" is excessive!

With his videos I'd be all over this. He tries to hold others to high standards and touts that his standards are higher and better quality. Most of his videos are good and informative but to me they are an infomercial any more trying to sell his stuff. More power to him I'd probably do the same. But when you are selling better stronger and easier you should be delivering what you are selling. No it probably is outsourced and he may not know or have control of the issue but he should take care of it.

I'd be willing to bet the advertised thickness is changed to a tolerance or reduced to what it actually is.

 

[bdbecker]

...Maybe they don't advertise a thickness tolerance because they can't control it...

That's kind of what I'm wondering too... maybe they had a batch of bad castings. Given the choice between eating a bunch of scrap cost and possibly delaying orders versus grinding a batch of table tops a little more than normal, I can see where one would be tempted to choose the latter. Admittedly a bit of a PITA having to keep the 'bad' batch separate from the good parts on the production and shipping side of things, but not impossible to do with the right processes in place.

EDIT: That, or perhaps the marketing department didn't get the update from production that the tables need to be advertised as a different thickness because they were running into issues during production and had to change the spec.

Hopefully they make things right.

 

[jar944]

I want to like fireball because Jason makes some cool stuff, but this kind of thing makes it tough

I would think for how much he harped on the accuracy only using his table/fixtures vs paying a shop his table and fixtures would be better than this.

Based on the design of 4 cross bars I don't see how shimming will fix it if it's a bow in the plate either.

 

[tarmy]

Tell them that you are posting here on GJ and that a lot of folks here are tracking this issue, their response and how this all plays out. This kind of publicity is not what they want.

 

[slowtwitch73]

Going nuclear and posting all over about it before the dust has settled isn't a smart approach imo.

 

[scooby074]

This is to be determined!

Thats not a good look from them.

Im have a little faith that Jason will do the right thing but his staff are out to lunch. Theyre selling this as a premium, flat, fab table. Jason likes to hang his hat on just how much more precise his stuff is than the others.

I think this is a case of chinese manufacturing doing what chinese manufacturing does, which is, ironically, the very thing that jason railed against in many videos. The thinning of the top down from advertised spec screams it. The out of flat. At the bare minimum his QC is ****.

To offer shims, let alone expecting the customer to pay is BS, they should have offered new plates and took the old ones back for QC inspection.

 

[Farmall450]

I'm not a machinist but it interest me. 0.750" is 24/32 and 0.69 is 22/32. The difference is 2/32 or a 1/16 undersized. What the spec on their sales brochure? None? Some people wouldn't care about a 1/16 undersized some people would. In welding, is a 1/16" of an inch thickness on a table a lot? I don't know why they wouldn't give you a tolerance range in the fine print. Maybe they don't advertise a thickness tolerance because they can't control it. They could say +/- 0.125 to cover their ***. But just seeing what McMaster is - all their basic steel bars at 3/4" have a +0.000" - 0.013". I think -0.063" is excessive!

Same here. Normally I'd guess they used mm material, but that's a funny measurement too.

In any event, if you wanted an iffy one HF just released a new model

 

[FL Guy]

they should have offered new plates and took the old ones back for QC inspection.

That would’ve been a good gesture, and after thinking about it what if there is nothing wrong with the plates and the issue lies within the aluminum base?
They state that the aluminum is machined for flatness, but I unfortunately don’t have any type of machines or tools to determine how flat the aluminum base is, or if the plates are warped

 

[FL Guy]

Same here. Normally I'd guess they used mm material, but that's a funny measurement too.

In any event, if you wanted an iffy one HF just released a new model

It’s funny that you mentioned a harbor freight model. If I remember correctly, I think I started a thread on this forum maybe three or four weeks ago asking if anyone used the harbor freight top as a template to drill your own holes in the table.
I got pretty good responses from it, but after thinking about it, the time invested to make sure that everything was precisely on was just not worth it to me. one crooked hole, and everything else will be out of square. That’s why I decided to take the plunge and spend the money on a table that’s already made for the size that I was looking for.
But it seems like that decision is starting to bite me in the ***

 

[Farmall450]

It’s funny that you mentioned a harbor freight model. If I remember correctly, I think I started a thread on this forum maybe three or four weeks ago asking if anyone used the harbor freight top as a template to drill your own holes in the table.
I got pretty good responses from it, but after thinking about it, the time invested to make sure that everything was precisely on was just not worth it to me. one crooked hole, and everything else will be out of square. That’s why I decided to take the plunge and spend the money on a table that’s already made for the size that I was looking for.
But it seems like that decision is starting to bite me in the ***

It actually looked decent for the money, but the base could definitely use improvement. I'd imagine FB can send you a new plate and then yours will be right on. I also don't see how shims will help unless you're able to bend the middle plate upwards slightly when shimmed and torqued down.

 

[dogdog]

This kind of f-ups makes me glad I don’t spend that kind of money just to have more aggravations. If my HF table don’t work out, I wouldn’t loose too much sleep over it.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I used to subscribe to his channel and enjoyed them. He claims that stuff needs to be precise and has "machine shops" do work and then grades their work. He, at one point, quit posting on YouTube and wanted everyone to come to his forum to watch and comment. Convenient way to control criticism of your videos and products. Not sure how well it worked out for him as I unsubscribed at that point.

I would expect his products to stand taller and way above everything else on the market due to his claims.

 

[SBAG]

I used to subscribe to his channel and enjoyed them. He claims that stuff needs to be precise and has "machine shops" do work and then grades their work. He, at one point, quit posting on YouTube and wanted everyone to come to his forum to watch and comment. Convenient way to control criticism of your videos and products. Not sure how well it worked out for him as I unsubscribed at that point.

I would expect his products to stand taller and way above everything else on the market due to his claims.

Yeah, the no comments thing drove me away. I am not tracking down or making a new thread for a specific question or comment on a video.

And he is hurting himself big time with the YouTube algorithm where user engagement plays a huge role.

 

[The Cobbler]

I always felt he was promoting himself & his product to be superior . never really got in to watching his videos as a result.
ABOM on You Tube is doing a series on the huge Fireball vice machining, I am not watching them either.
It's too bad , but it sounds like he isn't living up to his preaching , at least in this case.

 

[whateg01]

Without a stated tolerance, it's just a nominal dimension. Subway still calls their sub a footlong. The only thing I would really be upset over is them wanting me to pay for shims. Then again, I doubt I would ever spend that kind of money on one in the first place unless it was all iron and steel.

 

[goat1252002]

Sounds like a pretty easy fix figure out which plate is out of spec and get one replacement. Hopefully he makes it right. His squares are awesome but I would definitely get a dragon wagon instead of the plate design like that.

 

[General Geoff]

I'd be giving Jason some time to figure out the best solution, but if it involves shims they should be sending them to you for free IMO.

With a table topper setup like that, if I were the manufacturer, I'd be including some shims in every set as a same-day solution in case there is any warping of bending from shipping and handling between what I hope was final inspection after manufacture, and end user installation.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'd be giving Jason some time to figure out the best solution, but if it involves shims they should be sending them to you for free IMO.

With a table topper setup like that, if I were the manufacturer, I'd be including some shims in every set as a same-day solution in case there is any warping of bending from shipping and handling between what I hope was final inspection after manufacture, and end user installation.

Wouldn't cost much more than a cheap feeler gage set.

 

[FL Guy]

So customer service never got back to me. Last communication with Jason was 4 days ago when he said someone will call me and work something out.

Never got any phone calls, just the emails from CS saying they want to sell me shims for 10% off.

But according to Jason from 4 days ago, they don’t offer shims!

For some half way good news to me.

After about 3 hours of taking the plates off and reinstalling them, without exaggerating it was probably 30-40 times for each plate, I was finally able to level the plates out with feeler gauges that I had cut into small 1” pieces.

Everywhere there was a bolt, had a feeler gauge next to it.

Sizes ranged from .002 to .020


Flatness across the table was good according to my bubble level that has a machined side to it, but who knows how accurate that is.

I was happy with the results…….

Today I was welding together some horse shoes that the kid wanted me to build some projects for. After adjusting the work piece a few times with a rubber mallet, low and behold one of the plates rose up some and gave me an edge like it did the other day.

I took the one plate off that was taller and didn’t see anything out of the ordinary. Looking at the threads of the bolts that hold the plates to the aluminum frame, you can see where there are aluminum thread shavings coming out of the bolt holes. The frame the plates are mounted to are Aluminum. Maybe they should have used steel?

There is no doubt that the rubber mallet used to adjust the pieces allowed the bolt or bolts to release a c*nt hair and which then allowed the plate to rise again. I can only imagine what the bolt holes would look like overtime if this table was used on a regular basis.


So yea, this setup is going back. I’ll email CS tonight and request a prepaid label so I can ship it back to them.

Below are some pics and a video for your enjoyment.

Edit… in the video below you will hear what sounds like the edge of the table being hit. It’s me gliding over the holes.

 

[Mr.N]

I ended up ordering the Fireball table topper for about $1100 shipped.

Even though they claim the aluminum frame is machined, the plates are not level. they are about .018 to low. A square sliding over the plates catches the edge of the opposite plate.

Sent fireball an email.

Thank you so much for posting!

I've always felt you judge a company on how is responds to mistakes, as we all make mistakes. Please keep posting as your story unfolds.
Also, I hope you help Jason find the issue so it can be solved. It's not easy running a small business and making every customer happy... yet as a customer that is what is expected.

 

[gatewaysysop]

So customer service never got back to me. Last communication with Jason was 4 days ago when he said someone will call me and work something out.

To the surprise of exactly no one.

Shame on them for such piss poor customer service on top of piss poor quality.