First time garage build

[sportglfr07]

Hi all,

I've been following this site for quite some time as I ramp up in preparation to build my garage. This site is a wealth of information and I want to say thanks to all those who contribute as you've helped me determine much of my design. I've finally secured the cash to buy my building and I'm in the process of securing the necessary permits.

I'm located just outside of the North Kansas City MO area and I'm looking to build a 45' x 35' detached garage with a 10' overhang (carport). It will be a completely open floor plan since the building will be used primarily as storage for my three hunting and fishing boats/trailers with the added benefit of being a heated workshop and "locker room" for my hunting gear.

My budget is $40,000 but I'm willing to spend a little more if it equals substantial gains in the long run.

My main questions that I have remaining are as follows.

Do I go steel building or pole barn? What is the cost difference between the two? Other than cost, what are the benefits of going wood frame?

I like the idea of radiant floor heat but I need to estimate the operating cost. We don't have NG so electric is really my only option unless I wanted to heat with propane. My cost for electric is kWh@$0.00398 and I plan to heat the building to about 40-45f in the winter. Any ideas on what it would cost to heat a 1575sf well insulated building? I'm not familiar enough with the cost calculators to est. the operating costs. With a goal of keeping operating costs down, what is the best electric heating option? I'm thinking tank style water heater but want other thoughts (again, not trying to heat to 70 degrees).

Finally, has anyone built in this area and have a recommendation on a builder? I don't have the skills or time to do any of this build myself so I need a recommendation on a builder who does turnkey garages. Since it's a open floor plan, it's primarily erecting the building, doing insulation, running electricity, and one water line for a sink. Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated.

Unfortunately my site location is partially wooded at the moment and on a pretty steep grade so I will need a good excavator but hopefully that won't cost me an arm and leg.

Below is a picture of my initial sketch.

I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts and most importantly, breaking ground!

 

[kd3pc]

methinks there is a zero or two, too many in the electric costs....most are in the $.04 to $.20 per....

as in 4 cents and up. Way up in most places.

Ceiling height and insulation will be the biggest contributors to heat needed. I prefer wood frame and such, over metal, but that is a very subjective decision. To me, wood is warmer and much more quiet, as compared to metal.

Your electric costs will be considerable, no matter what method of water heating or heat pump system you choose. Three or four years ago, I would have suggested propane, but after last year's soaring propane prices and delivery issues....More insulation is better.

Will defer to the locals to give you costs they are seeing.

 

[sportglfr07]

Thanks for the quick response kd3pc! You're right, the rate above was for something else. I had to call KCP&L to get the actual charge per kWh.

They said they would charge the following prices for an external building added to my property
<180 kWh/month =.11408
181+ kWh/month=.05577

 

[sportglfr07]

Unless anyone has another recommendations for builders in the area, I'm thinking I'm going to go with a Morton Building. I'm sure I'll pay a little more but they seem have a good reputation for quality and they can give me a turnkey ready building. The only thing that I may do myself is laying the PEX and setting up the radiant floor heat. I'd be willing to do that bc I have a good friend who does heating and cooling for a living.

Anyone have any reason why I shouldn't go with a Morton Building? I know the amish and minnonite communities are known for great craftsmanship (and less expensive) but I'm not sure how to go about getting a hold of them

 

[Shoester]

How ya liking that cold weather this AM?

South of Lees Summit here.

 

[TAMPAGT07]

No matter how big you build it, it will eventually be too small..

 

[sportglfr07]

There was definitely a chill in the air this morning! I'm excited about it though, gets me jacked about hunting this weekend!

TAMPAGT - no doubt! It's never big enough! If I had the cash, I'd like a 50x70 but that's definitely not in the budget.

 

[Shoester]

There was definitely a chill in the air this morning! I'm excited about it though, gets me jacked about hunting this weekend!

TAMPAGT - no doubt! It's never big enough! If I had the cash, I'd like a 50x70 but that's definitely not in the budget.

I'll be out Saturday AM to shoot some ducks, sounds like I'll be getting snowed on! Buddies have reported some pretty active bucks in the area if your going after one of those critters.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Personally, I prefer stick built and would do it myself. If you chosse stick built, I'd recommend that you go with 48'x36' to keep it in a multiple of 4'.

If you want to keep heating costs down, have you considered a wall separating the trailer storage area from the work shop ? If you're just using it for storage, why heat it ? Just insulate it and call it good.

 

[sportglfr07]

I'll be out Saturday AM to shoot some ducks, sounds like I'll be getting snowed on! Buddies have reported some pretty active bucks in the area if your going after one of those critters.

Plan is to deer hunt Saturday to fill the freezer and I'll chase ducks Sunday. It sounds like the ducks have shown up big time!

 

[sportglfr07]

Personally, I prefer stick built and would do it myself. If you chosse stick built, I'd recommend that you go with 48'x36' to keep it in a multiple of 4'.

If you want to keep heating costs down, have you considered a wall separating the trailer storage area from the work shop ? If you're just using it for storage, why heat it ? Just insulate it and call it good.

Going to go stick built. Met with the Morton guy this morning... I had a bit of sticker shock when the quote came in over budget with heat, minimal insulation and no dirt work... unfortunately my property sits on a hill too so the excavation and dirt could blow my whole budget. Need to see what the excavation guy says...

We'll just have to see on the heat. I'll probably lay the PEX but not do the rest of the work right off the bat.

 

[sportglfr07]

So at this point, I'm completely overwhelmed with options and need someone to help me weed out the bad choices (if there is a bad choice). I know what I want my building to look like but with no construction experience, I'm worried I'm going to make a bad decision on the site work.

I want to place the building on a steep grade (drops 3-4' from front to back) with the garage doors facing up the hill. This means needing a significant amount of excavation and/or foundation work (excavation is est. at $12,000 due to the fill required). My question is, what is my best option if I'm worried about the site settling and/or sliding down the slope (if that's even is a rationale fear).

Is post in ground still a good option with that much fill dirt or should I consider a deep foundation wall? By the sounds of it, the foundation wall will require much less fill dirt which means the cost will be comparable if I go either route.

What things should I be considering? What are the pros and cons of each? Will a concrete foundation with the building sitting on top of stem walls be that much sturdier?

I hear conflicting information from different contractors so I'm hoping you guys can help me determine what is truly important.

Please help!

 

[Platonic Solid]

I want to place the building on a steep grade (drops 3-4' from front to back) with the garage doors facing up the hill. This means needing a significant amount of excavation and/or foundation work (excavation is est. at $12,000 due to the fill required).

Excavation costs usually run around 1,000 per day. Depending on the property topography, is it possible to take the fill from one location on you property and relocate it to the garage site? This could save you a ton of money. Dirt isn't cheap. If you have to get fill, go straight to the owner of the fill for a quote. An alternate method that saved me a ton on my driveway relocation was to find current local construction projects that might have fill that they are looking to unload cheap. I had contractor quotes of $60,000 for fill, gravel and excavating, but by going direct and being a little creative, got the job done for $30,000.

 

[TAMPAGT07]

Excavation costs usually run around 1,000 per day. Depending on the property topography, is it possible to take the fill from one location on you property and relocate it to the garage site? This could save you a ton of money. Dirt isn't cheap. If you have to get fill, go straight to the owner of the fill for a quote. An alternate method that saved me a ton on my driveway relocation was to find current local construction projects that might have fill that they are looking to unload cheap. I had contractor quotes of $60,000 for fill, gravel and excavating, but by going direct and being a little creative, got the job done for $30,000.

Kinda makes you wonder where the term "Dirt Cheap" comes from...

 

[dogdas]

I built a wood frame garage this fall and the cost were about $35+ per sf. that is without heat installed or the interior sheathing. It has 10' walls on 2 courses of block with a double and single door insulated. I was the general contractor.

 

[jrb2]

Just saw this thread so I might be a little late with this reply. If you haven't signed a contract with Morton, you might talk to QSI (Quality Structures Inc). They are located just south of you on Highway 59 (Kansas) between Ottawa and Garnett.

I have both Morton (54X84) and QSI (40X64) buildings. I would say they are equal in quality and the QSI should be cheaper. To be fair I should note that the Morton is over 30 years old. It was one of the first in our area build with laminated posts vs 6X6 solid posts. The QSI is only 2 years old but when I was pricing this time they could do it cheaper and put it up sooner. My be worth a look.

 

[sportglfr07]

Unfortunately, the topography doesn't lay out in a way that I would feel comfortable with taking dirt from another area and adding it to the site. I will certainly look at going directly to the source though and like that idea. I'm told that low moisture compact soil is particularly important, is that the case?

JRB - Thanks for the recommendation, I actually ran across QSI yesterday and reached out to them for a quote. I'm hoping to hear back tomorrow on some preliminary numbers. I'm completely open to other options, I've just had a hard time getting follow-up from several of the companies I've reached out to. Morton as certainly been the most responsive.

As far as foundation goes, if you're going to have to build on a steep grade that requires a lot of fill, am I better off going pole in ground or concrete foundation? Anyone have experience with either of these two options?

 

[Platonic Solid]

You’re trying to address a lot of possible scenarios at once. I know nothing about “low moisture compact soil” (not even sure what that means). I can tell you that when I get around to building my garage, which will be on a slope also (rear corner is 5ft.+ distance from slab to finished grade at the highest location, thus 8ft. total foundation wall including footing – still playing with potential suspended slab option) I’m going with a solid poured foundation and stick built. It may cost more, but has much better curb appeal, thus higher property value impact.

 

[sportglfr07]

Well, finally made some progress...

The excavation is done! over ~570 sq. feet of dirt moved and compacted on the pad site (roughly 41 large truckloads). Now I just need some moisture to help the site settle and around April 1st the building will go up.

Here are some progress pics of the excavation.

completed pad site

I also signed my contract and got the down payment on the building itself. here is the most recent model of what the completed building will look like.

I'm definitely getting crazy excited for everything to get done!

 

[sportglfr07]

Looks like I'm having an issue with pictures... here is the completed pad site and the module of the new building!

 

[sportglfr07]

Question for the group... The building is currently going up. I'm contracted for R-37 Blown in Fiberglass insulation in the ceiling. I was told I probably don't need a vapor barrier as well. Is this correct? They've put microfoil R-7 insulation in the walls already.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[Sigo]

If you wouldn't mind saying, what company did you go with and what was the estimated cost for just the building (without all the site prep)? I'm getting ready to go through the same decision cycle and am researching companies (Morton and QSI stand out at the moment) but don't have the grade issue that you have. Would appreciate anything you are willing to share.