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First time welding - Electrical questions

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HamAndEggs

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I've been wanting to get into welding for a long time, I've been reading the pro's and cons of each type, the best welder yada yada yada, but I never end up with a welder. So I just bit the bullet and ordered a Titanium Stick 225 Welder. For better or for worse, that will be my welder.

The specs are confusing. I'm pretty sure it says it will run at 20a for both 120v and 240v, but then the specs seem to show it can pull 42a? I assume that means I am best off running a 50a circuit for this. right?

1639412273963.png

My garage has a 125a sub panel in it (And a 200a main is on the other side of the wall, too) and I happen to have a bunch of 6/3 Copper. The 6/3 is very old, it used to connect my garage to my house before I upgraded the electrical, but the majority of the wire was just sitting in a straight run, so its in good shape

First, should I re-use this 6/3 copper? My concern is the ground is much smaller than the other conductors, is this going to be a problem?

My plan was to install a NEMA 14-50R. Good idea? Or should I go with a NEMA 6-50R?

Assuming that small ground wire is an issue, I could go with a NEMA 6-50R and just re-ruse the neutral conductor as the ground. Good idea?

Would love any input

Here are some pictures of the cable

1639412553340.jpeg


1639412560856.jpeg

1639412577220.jpeg
 
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jeepxj

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welding circuits are their own animal. that welder looks like it uses a 6-50 plug from photos.
 
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HamAndEggs

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Well that makes more sense, thanks. I can't say I've honestly ever encountered a 6-50, so I never noticed that
 
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Terry D

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NM wire is no longer allowed to be installed. It has to be NM-b now

6-50R is the correct receptacle
 
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HamAndEggs

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Ah bummer, I'll just bite the bullet and get some new wire

I figured if I ran the neutral now, I could then plug in an EV in the future easily too
 
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jeepxj

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HamAndEggs said:
Ah bummer, I'll just bite the bullet and get some new wire

I figured if I ran the neutral now, I could then plug in an EV in the future easily too
Click to expand...

you can certainly do that. you'll just need to get an adapter to go from the 14-50 receptacle to a 6-50. or cut the plug off the welder and put a 14-50 plug on it without wiring up the N.

1639414886690.png




side note: they make ev chargers with 6-50s btw:

Store Products | Enphase

store.clippercreek.com store.clippercreek.com

I personally have a 6-50 in the garage for the welder. but in the future the wife will charge from it.
 
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Terry D

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You could run a 6/3 to a 14-50 receptacle and use it for a EV charger. But putting a 14-50P on that welder cord would work, there would just be no neural to connect. Now is it the right way to do that, not really. I would run circuits for both. then you an weld and charge at the same time
 
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HamAndEggs

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I'm actually thinking of running with a 50a breaker, and using 8 AWG THHN inside liquid tight conduit. Might make for a cleaner install since my garage has no walls up currently

It should work out cheaper too
 
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mike93lx

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Why are people suggesting 6/2 when 10/2 is plenty? Welders are intermittent use devices and allow for downsizing conductors.

If you can run conduit, 10 THHN stranded is perfect. Easy to work with and not super expensive
 
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HamAndEggs

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Just saw your edit, interesting. It does limit me to a welder forever then though, I might price check #10 vs #8
 
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jeepxj

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mike93lx said:
Ah I missed that.

If the run isn't hard and there is space for both, I would keep them separate.
Click to expand...

Dumb question: i know you can use much smaller wire size on welder circuits. do you still use a 14-50 recept? do you label it welder use only?

curious from the EV aspect. I'd hate to see people plugging in their 32a chargers into a 14-50 and melting down the in wall wiring.
 
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mike93lx

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jeepxj said:
Dumb question: i know you can use much smaller wire size on welder circuits. do you still use a 14-50 recept? do you label it welder use only?

curious from the EV aspect. I'd hate to see people plugging in their 32a chargers into a 14-50 and melting down the in wall wiring.
Click to expand...
No. Welders use 6-50 receptacles. Yes, labeling it welder use only is a best practice, if not a requirement

If this was my garage, I would do #10 to a 6-50 and #6 to a 14-50, assuming the charger has a plug and isn't hardwired
 
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jeepxj

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mike93lx said:
No. Welders use 6-50 receptacles. Yes, labeling it welder use only is a best practice, if not a requirement
Click to expand...

ahh sorry 6-50.

If my understanding is right you have a 50a receptacle on 10 awg conductor size.

What size breaker do you put on the branch? the NEC doesn't require labeling or anything?
 
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mike93lx

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jeepxj said:
ahh sorry 6-50.

If my understanding is right you have a 50a receptacle on 10 awg conductor size.

What size breaker do you put on the branch? the NEC doesn't require labeling or anything?
Click to expand...
50a breaker for most welders. 50a receptacle, #10 wiring. It's all kosher

I don't know what the NEC requires. I removed the welder circuit when I sold my last house just to have it be a non issue.
 
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jeepxj

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mike93lx said:
50a breaker for most welders. 50a receptacle, #10 wiring. It's all kosher

I don't know what the NEC requires. I removed the welder circuit when I sold my last house just to have it be a non issue.
Click to expand...

until I plug my stupid car into it and yank 32a continuous on it. something to watch for as I charge up at friends places.
 
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jeepxj

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mike93lx said:
You carry around a 240v charger? I thought the on board stuff was 120v
Click to expand...

cliffs yes.

I carry it around at all times just in case. I guess it's kinda like carrying around an empty jerry can. Haven't needed it yet.
1639425901706.png


technical answer; the unit you plug in is just a connector. contacter is all. the charger itself is in the car. good 120v to 277v.
you plug the mobile connecter into dang near anything by swapping out the end:
1639425794867.png
 
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Terry D

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If you want to get technical about it and just be able to plug this welder into the receptacle. With a 20% duty cycle @ 240 volts, 42 amps x .45 = 18.9 amps. You could run # 12 on a 50 amp breaker
 
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mike93lx

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Terry D said:
If you want to get technical about it and just be able to plug a welder into the receptacle. With a 20% duty cycle @ 240 volts, 42 amps x .45 = 18.9 amps. You could run # 12 on a 50 amp breaker
Click to expand...
I figured suggesting an up size to 10 would be prudent in case a better welder was purchased at some point. Getting above a 20% duty cycle wouldn't be hard.
 
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u2slow

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If you're wiring a dedicated circuit for that welder, then its appropriate to apply the welding section of the code book where it allows you to reduce conductor size for the duty cycle. For that instance, the #6 you have is overkill. Exceeding the duty cycle on a modern machine causes it to shutdown. There is merit to not going the absolute minimum as there's voltage-drop to consider with a longer circuit.

I will keep using old wire/cable that's in decent condition. Not keen on burying that one in a wall due to the insulation rating, but route it so its protected by elevation, and out of harms way. Then its easy to replace or remove later if it comes to it. I have made good use of old 30A-50A yellow cords from the marina over the years.

IMHO, the best way to rough-in for a car charger is to run an empty conduit.
 
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HamAndEggs

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Thanks for all this information guys!

I think #10 THHN in 3/4 or 1 inch liquid tight, on a 50a breaker sounds like a good idea. Are we all in agreement?

Playing with the code numbers, for this welder it would actually be okay to run an 80A breaker with #14 THHN, which is pretty funny.
 
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HamAndEggs

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Now, I have a length of green #10 THHN already. What are the odds its just 5 inches too short for the ground?

Whenever I run THHN, its always too short.
 
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haveissues

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If you are going to use a plug in EV charger #8 is fine. If you are going to use something like the tesla wall charger that is 48 amps you will want #6. This assumes you are putting it in conduit. You could even put a small sub panel in the garage - they are cheap and might save you some aggravation in the future if you are considering an EV.
 
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HamAndEggs

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haveissues said:
If you are going to use a plug in EV charger #8 is fine. If you are going to use something like the tesla wall charger that is 48 amps you will want #6. This assumes you are putting it in conduit. You could even put a small sub panel in the garage - they are cheap and might save you some aggravation in the future if you are considering an EV.
Click to expand...

I have a 200a panel in the garage :cool:
 
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