First welds

[leftyz]

Well, I told some family that I was interested in learning how to weld, and then a couple days later they got me one of the Harbor Freight 90amp flux core welders.

I have been looking for a Hobart Handler 140 or something similar for a while, but this was free to me, so I am not at liberty to complain!

I did a lot of reading and went and grabbed the small amount of scrap that I had, and here are the results.

Basically all I did was nested two pieces of angle iron and welded them together. I couldn't really see the puddle, and I read someplace today that you should try to angle your head to the side to be able to view the pool better. I noticed a lot of spatter and I'm not sure if it's my technique (or lack of technique) or a setting on the welder, or the crappy flux wire that comes with the welder.

Anyways, I am really looking forward to spending more time practicing, it's a lot of fun!

 

[Jack Olsen]

For practice welds like that you don't need to join two pieces together -- you can just melt a line along the flat surface of the steel. It'll give you a chance to see the bead characteristics (porosity, penetration, bead shape, etc) without wasting too much steel.

Even though you're welding with flux core wire, it's a good idea to use a wire brush attachment on a grinder to get the surface to shiny steel when you're joining two pieces. Any substance that gets mixed into the melted puddle will potentially compromise the weld's strength.

It's not easy to self-teach good welding. If you can't sign up for a local community college course (which is a great idea), then I'd say at least get a DVD. You can buy one for $25 or rent it from smartflix.com for ten.

Weld's can look great and still have poor penetration and not be strong. While you're learning, don't weld anything where a structural failure could cause an injury. Don't make a trailer hitch.

 

[leftyz]

Thanks Jack, I actually did use a grinder to clean up the surfaces prior to welding, you just can't tell from the pictures since I welded over that part.

I am going to stop by a steel place on the way home from work tonight for some scrap to practice with.

So far the best online reference I have found is this http://www.mig-welding.co.uk

And of course this board is a great knowledge base as well.

 

[Professur]

The Hobart website forum is pretty good too.

what helmet are you using?

Let's just say that you're working with a cheap machine, cheap wire, and flux core is never going to be the prettiest welds ... so worry about your technique and don't loose any sleep initially over appearance (or even strength). First worry is .. you NEED to see that puddle. You can't improve until you see it. Do not look at the arc. It's tough, I know ... but avoid it. Once you can see the puddle, work with that.

As for that piece you did ... cut it in two, treat the end in acid and take a good look at your work. You'll see a different grain to the metal where it melted and fused. I've seen really pretty welds that when subjected to this test ... we're worth spit. Seen total bird **** that was plenty strong too.

 

[gorilla]

Jack gave you some good advice, welding is all about practice the more you do the better you get. After you feel that you can run a good bead try welding two pieces together and then bending them in a vice so that the bend is the middle of the weld, the metal should bend without breaking the weld. Other than sheet metal anything that you weld with that HF welder should be beveled on both sides at 60* and welded on both sides. If you can't see the puddle you may need to get a different filter lens in your hood or perhaps a magnification lens. Good luck.

 

[Professur]

Oh, and welcome to the brotherhood of metal melters. You'll never go back

 

[leftyz]

The Hobart website forum is pretty good too.

what helmet are you using?

Let's just say that you're working with a cheap machine, cheap wire, and flux core is never going to be the prettiest welds ... so worry about your technique and don't loose any sleep initially over appearance (or even strength). First worry is .. you NEED to see that puddle. You can't improve until you see it. Do not look at the arc. It's tough, I know ... but avoid it. Once you can see the puddle, work with that.

As for that piece you did ... cut it in two, treat the end in acid and take a good look at your work. You'll see a different grain to the metal where it melted and fused. I've seen really pretty welds that when subjected to this test ... we're worth spit. Seen total bird **** that was plenty strong too.

I am using this helmet, with the darkness setting at 10

http://www.harborfreight.com/blue-flame-design-auto-darkening-welding-helmet-91214.html

Thanks for the advice, I think I was looking right at the arc and not looking FOR the puddle, so I will need to work on that.

I am not sure about treating the metal in acid... I don't even know where to find something like that, but thanks again

 

[dellwas]

www.weldingweb.com

http://weldfabzone.com/forum/index.php

Thanks Jack, I actually did use a grinder to clean up the surfaces prior to welding, you just can't tell from the pictures since I welded over that part.

I am going to stop by a steel place on the way home from work tonight for some scrap to practice with.

So far the best online reference I have found is this http://www.mig-welding.co.uk

And of course this board is a great knowledge base as well.

 

[jhn9840]

http://www.millermotorsports.com/mboard/forumdisplay.php?f=3


http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/forum_show.pl?sid=19fefba37223ef0f213b58177aa599e4

www.smartflix.com

jhn9840
john

 

[Professur]

If you're worried about using straight acid, you could use Naval jelly. Does the same job, just slower.

 

[zmotorsports]

In your first post you stated that you are having a hard time seeing the bead. If you cannot see the puddle you are going to have a hell of a time becoming a descent weldor. Don't be afraid to stick your head right down near the arc. Get some clear lens covers and don't be afraid to go through a few, they are cheap. Once you get more proficient and get a better feel for puddle manipulation you can back away a little at a time and the clear lenses will last longer.

Also, after making a weld, don't hesitate to adjust either the voltage or the wire speed and try again. By doing this you get a feel for how each effects the weld penetration and quality.

Post some more pics up and we will see if we can give you any more assistance as you progress. Mike.

 

[leftyz]

Thanks Mike,

I definitely started playing with the wire feed speed, but I don't feel that I had enough time to even understand the differences it made. I was able to get better results with a faster speed but there are just too many variables going on since I'm so new. I can't wait to dive back in and see what I can apply from what I have read here and watched on various videos today.

I will likely have a few more days to read and study before I get time to practice my welds again. Too many projects going on..

Thanks again, I will definitely be posting more pics as I progress!

 

[leftyz]

I had about an hour to spare so I set out to try to run a few beads.

I was using the same piece of angle iron, which is 1/8" thick. I completely ground down one side of it, and planned on running a bead straight down the side.

No matter what setting I used, I couldn't get a puddle to form, the wire would just pop and go flying. I tried this with power set to min and max (the only 2 settings this welder has) and with wire speed set across the range offered, grinding down the splatter after each try. I am ASSuming that the welder just didn't have the power to penetrate the metal on a flat side like that (reference #1 in pic). You can even see a piece of the wire that was left behind. I then tried to run another bead down the groove where the 2 nested pieces were almost touching, I was able to kinda see the puddle, I tried to stay just in front of it, but it wasn't too easy to see even trying to get right in there and look from the side. Regardless it looks a little better than the previous attempts, I think. (#2 in the pic)

Sorry for the cellphone pic.

 

[4StarCstms]

Your braver than me! I'd never show what my welds looked like when I first started welding haha

 

[Professur]

Yeah, learning to weld on a machine like that is a punishment. Do yourself a favour and check all the connection to make sure that you're getting a good circuit. Scrape the ground clamp into the steel.

Do you feel the gun trying to push you away from the work at any time?

 

[jhn9840]

#2 pic the weld looks decent for a beginner. Your machine could be a part of the problem as well. This Yahoo group is guys who have the cheapo machines and have done somethings to help make them work better. Joining is free.

[email protected]

jhn9840
John

 

[leftyz]

Yeah, learning to weld on a machine like that is a punishment. Do yourself a favour and check all the connection to make sure that you're getting a good circuit. Scrape the ground clamp into the steel.

Do you feel the gun trying to push you away from the work at any time?

Yes, I did, even after slowing the feed down.

One probable issue was that I was working off an ext. cord, which I normally would not do, but I needed to get closer to a light source as I was doing this after dark.

I am going to be getting some thinner sheet metal to practice on, and won't be running off an extension, so it should hopefully be able to actually penetrate the metal and lay some beads.

 

[leftyz]

#2 pic the weld looks decent for a beginner. Your machine could be a part of the problem as well. This Yahoo group is guys who have the cheapo machines and have done somethings to help make them work better. Joining is free.

[email protected]

jhn9840
John

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cheapfcaw ? Thanks!

 

[leftyz]

Your braver than me! I'd never show what my welds looked like when I first started welding haha

Scott, I'm not too worried about it, I know they are nothing to be proud of, they are just beginner welds. Hopefully by posting pictures, people will at least be inclined to post replies with advice and/or encouragement.

 

[Professur]

If you're feeling it push you away .. don't change anything yet, until you resolve that. That means the wire is contacting the surface and not melting ... Changing metal won't resolve that.

 

[KenS]

With the marginal welder you're using, one trick would be to pre-heat the metal. You can do this with a common propane torch. Remember when you trigger your MIG gun, the wire hits the metal surface and immediately has to bring it up to a molten state. If the metal is preheated, the temperature differential is not as great for your little welder to overcome.

 

[leftyz]

If you're feeling it push you away .. don't change anything yet, until you resolve that. That means the wire is contacting the surface and not melting ... Changing metal won't resolve that.

Gotcha, I'll try again with a closer power source without changing anything else first.

 

[z28snksknr]

Here's my "new welder" thread "Help a new Welder Get better"- LOTS of good tips / info here. One thing I learned by the end - HF flux core wire *****. Just look at the pics and you'll see the difference.

Also, the gold lens helped alot

....just readr the thread.

 

[leftyz]

Here's my "new welder" thread "Help a new Welder Get better"- LOTS of good tips / info here. One thing I learned by the end - HF flux core wire *****. Just look at the pics and you'll see the difference.

Also, the gold lens helped alot

....just readr the thread.

Thanks, I had read your thread before, but reading it a second time after actually trying this out was much clearer.

I am still using the Flux core wire the welder came with (.030), I have a 2# spool of .035 wire (HF's) that I have not tried yet, from your thread it doesn't look like my results will be much better with that...

 

[e-tek]

I think your weld (2) is very good for flux core - beginner or not! Sometimes that just needs to be said so you can re-create that and practice what you did there!

One thing that helped me learn to lay a nice bead was to learn how to move the gun and wire as you go. Starting from one side, move to other making a slight forward curve, then back again. Like weaving it in a semi-circ pattern moving forward. I had a great picture somehwhere.

And like everyone said - FLUX ***** - BUT you can do it. I weled quarters and a floor pan on my Challenger show car with Flux core.Now I have a Linc180 - much less splatter!

 

[rickairmedic]

Lefty I will give you one piece of advice nobody else has ( from experiance ) . The little flux core welder will work fine to learn I had one for years . The best advice I can give you is to go to Tractor supply ( I know ya might have to go to brandon or Plant city to find one ) and spend $65.00- $70.00 on a Hobart auto dark hood . Then throw that Harbor freight hood as far as you can . You will be able to see the puddle with the new hood . The Harbor freight hoodsw are plain terrible ( I had several before I got the Hobart ) and now I have a Miller BWE and its even a little better than the Hobart.


Rick

 

[Amitygravel]

What size tip is on the gun? If you are running .030 wire use a .035 tip. They won't last forever either so don't hesitate to change them often. Just keep at it , you're already hooked!

 

[leftyz]

I think your weld (2) is very good for flux core - beginner or not! Sometimes that just needs to be said so you can re-create that and practice what you did there!

One thing that helped me learn to lay a nice bead was to learn how to move the gun and wire as you go. Starting from one side, move to other making a slight forward curve, then back again. Like weaving it in a semi-circ pattern moving forward. I had a great picture somehwhere.

And like everyone said - FLUX ***** - BUT you can do it. I weled quarters and a floor pan on my Challenger show car with Flux core.Now I have a Linc180 - much less splatter!

Thanks! Is this the pic?

Thats basically what I tried to recreate with that weld, so I guess I was on the right track

Lefty I will give you one piece of advice nobody else has ( from experiance ) . The little flux core welder will work fine to learn I had one for years . The best advice I can give you is to go to Tractor supply ( I know ya might have to go to brandon or Plant city to find one ) and spend $65.00- $70.00 on a Hobart auto dark hood . Then throw that Harbor freight hood as far as you can . You will be able to see the puddle with the new hood . The Harbor freight hoodsw are plain terrible ( I had several before I got the Hobart ) and now I have a Miller BWE and its even a little better than the Hobart.


Rick

Thanks Rick, I'll be moving to Plant City at the end of the month so Tractor Supply won't be too far a drive at all! I will put the Hobart helmet on the top of my list of future upgrades...

What size tip is on the gun? If you are running .030 wire use a .035 tip. They won't last forever either so don't hesitate to change them often. Just keep at it , you're already hooked!

I am using whatever tip came with the welder, but I did have the forethought to buy an assortment pack of tips. What difference does the tip size make, and what should I notice after changing it?

Thanks!

 

[ADaughen]

Default tip is the .030, a .035 should be in your pack of goodies that came with the welder.


I get a lot of splatter on my HF flux core welder also.

FWIW, if you are looking for a cart the HF welder cart is pretty decent. Looks identical to the Cman cart in their catalog. There is room for your spare spools, gloves and apron/jacket.

 

[Amitygravel]

The wire expands as it heats,the next size up on tip size will let the wire feed better. Keep slag and crud cleaned out of the nozzle , these two things should let the wire feed better overall.

 

[csp]

Nothing against the Hobart hoods, but Jackson is the brand I prefer.

 

[harryhood]

take a welding class. most local welding supply houses will offer them.

 

[ZRX61]

Also: typically the tip on a mig is much closer to the metal than with FluxCrap.

 

[Jack Burton]

Leftyz,

Whether you're on a 15 or 20 amp circuit, with that welder you won't see penetration until the 14-16 gauge metal range. If I were you, I'd grab some 18 gauge sheet and run beads on it. You will see a pool then. In MIG and GMAW welding, the quality of the joint is more important than a nice roped bead. Once you run beads and see and understand penetration, the visual quality of your welds will improve because your timing will be based on building the weld, not doodling a line that just looks good.

Also, there is no mechanical reason to emulate a TIG weld with a MIG or GMAW welder. A lot of people get caught up in that. Actually, a roped GMAW weld is weaker than a steady bead.

 

[rickairmedic]

Nothing against the Hobart hoods, but Jackson is the brand I prefer.

Yes Jacksons are nice so is my Miller BWE . I dont want him to drop $200 on a hood while learning with a #100.00 welder . The $70.00 Hobart is an excelent hood for the money and 10 times better than any of the Harbor Freight hoods .



Rick