Floor Jack Guru's: Vintage Hein Werner?

[slackjaw]

Thanks for the comments and picture.

How do I get the brass plate and pump pistons off? I pulled on both of them but couldn't get them to budge.

So it sounds like for both my wiper 38 and plunger cup 5, mine were either serviced at some point with something off the shelf that weren't correct, or my version of the jack had different original parts, but that it shouldn't impact the function.

 

[paulsomlo]

The brass plate pulls off, could be a snug fit. Remove all that corroded stuff from the pump piston and push it through the cylinder.

 

[slackjaw]

Wow, seems like several things don’t match here.

First, that pump piston isn’t coming out. I’m even hammering it in a vice. It’s also worth calling out that your sheet has 5 parts including the nut, and mine has 4.

Brass plate isn’t moving either. I used the spacer to act like a hammer.

I also took off the working valve. I see the copper ring and a ball bearing, but no gasket or spring... ugh.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[paulsomlo]

The pump piston comes out seal end first - it's possible that the end that had the retaining ring on it got mushroomed over, in which case you'll need to do some filing. You did remove that big chunk of corrosion, yes?

Four parts sounds right - a nut, washer, seal, and leather wiper. There's also the oring that goes on the pump rod, midway up.

Probably need to secure the brass plate and hit the threaded end with a soft faced hammer, block of wood/hammer, etc..

The copper ring is the gasket, there should be a spring and another ball bearing in there, unless someone else has mucked around.

 

[slackjaw]

For the piston ring, the corrosion came right off. I put the casing in a vice and hammered on the piston, and while it goes down further (where the face is flush with the casing), if I hammer the piston more with a socket, the vice loses grip before the piston moves. Maybe the o-ring is jamming it.

I was trying to figure out a way to secure the brass plate without marking/mucking the brass. I had used channel locks with tape but they slip before it comes apart.

I'm starting to debate whether I leave both of the above rather than muck with them. Don't want to re-take anything apart, but concerned I might bust something. My gaskets were worn and cup was disintegrated, but my other older o-ring looked great.

For the working valve, the copper ring and ball bearing are in there, but no spring. Looks like someone must have messed around before. The spring in the kit has a wider and narrower side. Does the narrow side go down (against the bearing)?

 

[paulsomlo]

On the pump - does the non seal end clear the hole in the casing, or is it mushroomed over?

The brass plate is larger in diameter than the rod it's attached to, right? If you have a vice, you can support the underside of the brass without clamping down on the rod. Might even be able to hold the brass in your hand and use a soft faced hammer on the threaded end, that might get it moving. For safety, you could put the nut back on part way to protect the threads.

You might get away with leaving those orings - the one under the brass heel plate is static, doesn't get much wear, the one on the pump rod is there to keep the outside world out, and any blow by, in.

Working valve should have two balls, total, and the spring. Narrow side goes down, yes.

Did this thing work when you bought it?

 

[slackjaw]

On the pump, it does clear. It goes flush with the casing but doesn’t go further.

Good idea on the brass. That’s probably the one I care about more because worst case it’s a heck of a lot easier to rebuild the pump (don’t need to take the whole thing out or get the tank nut off).

The jack worked in that it pumped up, but it didn’t hold and slowly went down after pumping. Slowly as in dropping about an inch every 10 seconds.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[paulsomlo]

Flush with the casing - it's a tight fit, probably mushroomed over on the end. You could push it back the other way and do some filing.

 

[slackjaw]

Finally got back to it. All fixed -- works great!

The head on the pump was a bit mushroomed. Sticking out about 0.015" in that area. I filed it down, hammered it through, and replaced the o-ring.

I couldn't get the brass piece to come off. Put it in a jack as you suggested, kept banging, but it was marring the brass, so I left it. I didn't have an extra o-ring anyway.

It turned out there was a spring in the working valve, but it was stuck compressed so I didn't see it until I shook out the ball bearings.

 

[paulsomlo]

Enjoy! And remember - jack stands are your friends.

 

[slackjaw]

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[slackjaw]

Reviving this old thread.

After using the jack many times this year, I noticed a fluid leak coming from the working valve screw. Before I re-check the copper gasket, my first thought is that it wasn't torqued down enough and loosened up a bit. Any idea of the torque required here? Not something I want to crank on more than needed given a flat-head isn't the easiest thing to do much with in a scenario like this.

 

[paulsomlo]

You're certain that the leak is from the working valve, and not the pump? I just went out to the garage and looked at my SJ2 and I see that they're very close together.

As far as the torque, have no idea - basically, enough to compress the copper gasket. You can only get so much torque on it, being a slotted screw. It appears that the handle yoke may need to come off to get at it. I would use a big screwdriver with a square shank and torque it with an adjustable wrench on the shank. Or maybe a drag link socket? I probably didn't use any sealant with mine and now that it's full of oil, you might not get it clean enough for any kind of loctite on the threads. You could use teflon tape, but need to be careful about getting any bits of tape down in there. Now, if it came down to it, you could probably clean up the gasket, screw, and the block where the gasket bears, just enough to use some loctite 518 on both sides of the gasket. But I would be surprised if tightening the screw didn't work.

 

[slackjaw]

Yeah, I dried all the fluid, pumped it up, released it slowly, and it’s coming from the screw.

I didn’t use loctite on the screw thread when I installed it, so maybe that’s what I missed.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[paulsomlo]

I don't think I used loctite either - the copper gasket should do the job, just needs to be tight enough to compress it.

 

[slackjaw]

Ok, I had a ground down perfect fit of a drag link socket I’ve used for generator field coils and was able to crank it down a good 5/8 to 3/4 full turn tighter than I could get it with the screwdriver.

Also changed the copper gasket since the outside was a bit worn but think it was really the torque.

Seemed to do the trick - not leaking. Marked it with chalk just to make sure it doesn’t loosen up for some reason.

 

[slackjaw]

Incidentally, when I release the Jack, it doesn’t go down all the way unless I finish it from 6” or so up by hand.

Not a big deal because it’s easy to push down, but curious what that could be causing that.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[paulsomlo]

Check the fluid level and bleed any trapped air out.

When you remove the fill plug and look inside the reservoir, the oil should just cover the top of the cylinder. Do this with the jack's lift arm all the way down. While you've got the fill plug out, open the release valve and pump the handle about 10 times to bleed it.

You did reinstall the springs on the lift arm, yes?

 

[slackjaw]

Yeah, definitely re-attached the springs -- pain in the ****. Old and rusty, but they're still together.

I checked the fluid level and topped it to the right spot, but I'll try bleeding it.

 

[paulsomlo]

Make sure there's adequate grease at the main pivot point on the lift arm - there's two grease zerks. And see if anything is rubbing that shouldn't be.

 

[slackjaw]

Yikes. Missed the grease fittings but I only have one. Other one is missing. Can’t figure out the thread though - 1/4 coarse and fine don’t fit...


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[paulsomlo]

Are you certain that they're threaded, and not press fit?

 

[slackjaw]

Could be press fit, I just assumed they were threaded. Any idea where I could get another fitting? Parts sheet says it's S4188-2. I can't find much other than parts sheet when googling it.

 

[paulsomlo]

If it doesn't have a hex to put a socket/wrench on, it's most likely press fit. I looked at my SJ2, there's no hex.

You'll need to measure the hole, a drill bit might work. Or remove the remaining zerk, measure with some calipers. I'd start with the local hardware, then Fastenal, then https://www.mcmaster.com/zerk/grease-fittings-for-unthreaded-holes-6/

 

[slackjaw]

Ace had nothing press fit and auto parts store stocked 5/16” press but could order 1/4” press _without_ a ball.

Ordered from McMaster...

 

[paulsomlo]

So, they were 1/4"?

 

[slackjaw]

Yes. Funny thing because 3/16" and 5/16" can easily be had with a ball, but not 1/4". No idea why.