Fluke multimeter or..?

[bareass172]

I just finished a few hours of surfing here and the net trying to figure out what multimeter I need to fit the bill for what I do, and there are so many options I'm almost more confused after all my reading. I'm a motorcycle mechanic by trade, but like many of us I tinker with all sorts of stuff. I have a Fluke 73 meter (NOT the series III) that I've had since I studied electrical engineering in college almost 20 years ago. That 73 has served me well for 99% of what I've had to do since I've had it. I recently found a shortcoming with it, and that's why I'm researching and looking for advice. When doing current leakdown tests on motorcycles I need something that has better low end resolution. This 73 can actually only read down to 100 milliamps (.01 amps) and I need a meter that can read down to at least .1 milliamps, possibly even lower to give me a little "space".

I've looked at the Fluke 87, Fluke 787, some Ideal models, Amprobe, and of course there is a ton of China **** out there. I know there are other companies besides Fluke, and despite being happy with my existing model for so many years, I'm not brand loyal. I just don't want to buy ****. I'd love to get something once that will last me another 20 years.

What would guys who are automotive type techs recommend that would fit the bill for what I need, but also cover things I may not have even thought about yet? I have a separate (plug-in style) peak voltage adapter so if there's a meter with that built in, great - but that is not a deal breaker.

A friend recommended the Fluke 87, but I'm open to all suggestions if they do what I need and aren't junk. If nothing else, what brands are good/bad? Fluke, Amprobe, Extech, Ideal, Greenlee, etc? Lastly, I'd very respectfully ask that if you don't do this kind of work regularly please don't recommend anything specific. I'm hoping to get solid feedback from users with similar jobs, and I don't believe that most DIY'ers would have the same needs and experience.

Thanks in advance!

 

[tyjoja]

I'm a cable guy, and we use multimeter's quite a bit. Most of us have fluke's. Very well made and great cases. I'm in oregon, mine get wet all the time and does well unless it gets very wet, then dry it out on the dash for a while and all's good. Don't use a lot of it's functions, mostly ac, dc, and ohm's. Will take some banging around too. Some guy's have the cheaper chinese types and they're terrible.

 

[zkling]

Fluke 87, done. Will do everything and more the average person needs with more than needed accuracy. Very hard to "outgrow". Unless you plan on becoming a diesel mechanic in the near future.

 

[theknurl]

Fluke 87, done. Will do everything and more the average person needs with more than needed accuracy. Very hard to "outgrow". Unless you plan on becoming a diesel mechanic in the near future.

+10

Fluke 87 Mk lll here

 

[Rogue1987]

Ive got a Fluke 87 and I've yet to come up with something it can't do. Granted, its a lot smarter than the user (me) but still. Heck of a meter.

 

[Brownsfan]

I use this daily doing automotive electrical. http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/multimeters/electricianshvac-trms-multimeter Actually had a fluke 73 as well. It finally broke after years of use. For the money this is a nice meter. They now have USA made meters as well. I may pick this one just because. http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/multimeters/electricians-hvac-trms-multimeter.

The mm2000 only cost me $110 at home depot. It has been great and durable.

 

[Deej]

My fluke 87 has been great. I'd get another one in a heartbeat if I had to

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I have a test products international model 194. It's the same meter snapon offers, but it's the OEM of the tool.

 

[1/2 Cup]

Another for the Fluke here.

 

[gagreen]

Agilent U1253B. You'll never go back

 

[nanofrog]

Given your resolution statement, you'd probably need to be looking at 50,000 count meters (will give you 0.00001V <0.01mV> resolution in the 50V range and 0.0001A <0.1mA> resolution in the 5A range).

I'd recommend looking at the following meters.
Fluke 287
Agilent U1252B
Brymen BM869 * (add ~$20 for shipping from this source). Alternative source.

All of them are well built, meet their CAT ratings (not all actually do), and are stable over time. Of the three, the Brymen is the best value (they're rebranded a lot, and this model is also the Greenlee DM-860A for example). You just pay more to give Greenlee a handsome profit for zero development work (just some warehousing & logistics).

They also have a lot more features than the 87V, perhaps more than you need, but that many count's aren't available in stripped down models. Could still be useful once you figure out when/where they can help you IMHO.

Check out EEVBlog Forum on these meters (reviews & tear downs), as well as youtube.

Hope this helps.

* = This one has a 500,000 count mode to increase resolution. Does not increase accuracy though. Still handy at times.

 

[nanofrog]

Agilent U1253B. You'll never go back

I skipped that one due to the longevity issues regarding OLED screens (own a U1252B FWIW).

 

[johnwill]

For the resolution you are talking about, with a Fluke, I would look at the 87v the 83v or the 116. The 116, which is lower cost, is geared towards HVAC work thus the microamps ranges. Thanks.

 

[ddawg16]

I have a Fluke 179.....

But your doing your tests wrong.....

Instead of using the ma feature of the meter.....put a resistor in series with the load your trying to test..then measure the voltage drop across it.

If you're trying to measure a 1ma load...put a 10 ohm in series....if you measure 10mv...that is 1ma....

If you want more resolution...increase the resistor...

Get the idea?

 

[bareass172]

Thanks so much for the suggestions, wonderful information so far. Especially nanofrog for such a detailed reply with options to consider.

I have 2 friends who both do HVAC work, unrelated to each other. One is the guy I mentioned at the beginning who recommended the 87, the other recommended the 116 that was just mentioned above.

ddawg16 - I understand what you're saying, but what I need the resolution for is a leakdown test. I have a bike that I believe has a minor short somewhere that is slowly draining the battery. I know how to run it down, the problem is I need better resolution to be able to see when the draw stops. Does your method apply to this also? It makes me sad that I studied 3 years of electrical engineering in college and I can't remember sh!t. I guess it's true, if you don't use it you lose it...

Thanks for the recommendations so far, please keep them coming while I research the ones you guys mentioned.

 

[azhatchback]

Fluke 87 here. I am an industrial mechanic and use it on robotics, electronics, and heavy electrical. 480V in our feeds which eventually break down to 15 to-15V for cuircuit boards and very sensitive electronics. This meter covers it all. Much like what your looking to do I found a parasitic draw in my car with same meter. Car would drain battery over 3 day period.

I put it in line on mA setting between battery and negative cable and started pulling fuses. This meter also has a micro amp setting. Turned out to be on accessory circuit. After testing every switch on the circuit (using a schematic) I finally found the draw on last item, go figure. The fabric on my passenger side mirror lid on the visor had seperated enough where it would no longer close/open the micro switch for the mirrior light. The mirror lid cheaply latched by means of velco so when the fabric seperated it would no longer hold the switch closed. I never saw the light leaking out.

When I worked on HVAC and appliance repair I really dug field peice meters.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Very hard to "outgrow". Unless you plan on becoming a diesel mechanic in the near future.

So what doesn't an 87 do that you'd need as a diesel mech?

 

[mrborohachi]

Amprobe
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012IYHQC/?tag=atomicindus08-20

All the same features of the big boys.

 

[DWise]

Another vote for the Fluke 87.

 

[redwrench60]

Auto tech here. Fluke 87 series 5. One of the older series 3 Fluke 87 meters is also fine.

If the Fluke 87-5 meter I'm using right now melts into a puddle of piss, I'll buy another one immediately.

 

[Ncognito]

Future auto tech here. I bought the Fluke 88 series 5. As a wannabe, I haven't used it as much as I would like to, but I'll second redwrench and say I'd buy another one in a heartbeat. The Fluke 88V is nice!

bareass, did you ever buy those Wiha screwdrivers that you were looking at?

 

[Westly]

Does your method apply to this also?

Yes. When the draw stops you'll read 0 across the resistor. When there is some draw you'll read "some voltage" across the resistor. How much voltage doesn't matter unless you need to know what (how much) the draw is. If you need to know that, remember I= V/R?

BTW, I also work on bikes. Old ones... Everything except the big wire to the starter goes through the ignition switch. With the igntion switch off there should be no draw on the battery at all. If there is, then there's some miswiring, or maybe conductive junk built up in the switch itself (graphite lock lubricant?). With the switch on, of course there will be lots of draw - tail light, igntion box turned on, current through the charging stator and so on. Problem is between the battery and the switch then. Also, the battery can self discharge if it's old or bad. In that case the battery voltage will slowly drop but you would not read anything across the resistor.

As a final thought - a very small load or draw like you describe, one that's hard to measure, would not cause any problem.

That so small it's hard to measure load would take a long, long time to discharge the battery. Weeks or months is my gut feeling. Without doing the calculation. To do the calculation take the Ah of the battery use the amount of draw you suspect in amps and calculate the hours.

 

[exmaxima1]

I'm an EE and have a Fluke 87 and several Fluke 73/75/77 meters that I use in a production environment. The 87 is great for very accurate measurements, especially low resistances where you can zero out the lead resistance. But I grab a 73 or 75 when I want to troubleshoot a board---I like the audible diode checker for testing transistors and rectifiers w/o having to constantly look at the meter.

 

[zkling]

So what doesn't an 87 do that you'd need as a diesel mech?

The 87 is an all around workhorse of a general purpose meter. The 88 and more specific auto meters add in useful features such as rpm, and injector monitoring readouts. But it gives up true RMS and a bit of accuracy, so it takes a step back from the 87 as an all around general purpose meter. These readings can be back calculated with the 87, but someone in a pro shop setting doesn't have the time to calculate RPM from frequency and things like that. A meter only can take a few measurements, it is what is done between the measurement and display screen that makes certain features handy to specific users.

 

[FiendFX]

I use this..

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OCFFMW/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[ihateminimumwage]

Another Fluke 87 V user here. Used it on everything from automotive to home to 480v transfer switches.

 

[bareass172]

mrborohachi - Just so I'm clear, when you say Amprobe, I assume you specifically mean the 34XR that you linked?

Ncognito - What made you choose the 88 over the 87? I haven't bought the Wiha set yet because I can't afford it right now, but I am buying a small, incomplete set from a member here to at least get the feel of them. The price was good enough to buy just to try out.

Westly - Thanks for the tip on using the resistor. I feel like somewhere in the back of my memory I knew at one time that was an option but I must have long since forgotten it. As far as bikes go, I haven't worked on older ones in awhile, but I can tell you that new bikes have all sorts of stuff tied directly to the battery. Sensors, ECU, etc - just lots of places for possible drain. This specific bike has had a myriad of issues for my customer in the last few years. I believe that it's mostly the customer's fault, neglect causing parts to keep failing, but he insists it's an electrical problem. I'm asking about this meter, in large part, because I want to be able to give it back to him and know with absolute certainty that it's 100% fixed. That way if anything breaks, it makes it easier to explain to him that it's definitely not the bike's fault. I feel confident that this is a battery problem right now, he believes it isn't. The rest of the details here are a long story...

The 88 was mentioned a couple of times. I had thought that it would be nice to be able to check RPM with my meter as well. I have a separate conductive tach that I can clip on to get a reading, so am I best sticking with a separate tach and going with the 87 if I go Fluke? I'm not crystal clear on what else I'd give up between the 87 and 88. Or, is there another option mentioned that has everything plus the tach capability built in?

I know that I can't get one single meter that will do every single thing, or if there is it'd be EXPENSIVE. I'm just trying to make an educated purchase, and you guys are giving me great examples to research that I never would have otherwise. Thanks!

 

[pburressiii]

Fluke 179 here


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Moose-LandTran]

The 87 is an all around workhorse of a general purpose meter. The 88 and more specific auto meters add in useful features such as rpm, and injector monitoring readouts. But it gives up true RMS and a bit of accuracy, so it takes a step back from the 87 as an all around general purpose meter. These readings can be back calculated with the 87, but someone in a pro shop setting doesn't have the time to calculate RPM from frequency and things like that. A meter only can take a few measurements, it is what is done between the measurement and display screen that makes certain features handy to specific users.

Oh, i see. Thank you.

I have a 289, and it has more features than i'll ever need. I have considered getting an 88V as well for more general stuff at work. (Mech)

 

[ttpete]

Thanks so much for the suggestions, wonderful information so far. Especially nanofrog for such a detailed reply with options to consider.

I have 2 friends who both do HVAC work, unrelated to each other. One is the guy I mentioned at the beginning who recommended the 87, the other recommended the 116 that was just mentioned above.

ddawg16 - I understand what you're saying, but what I need the resolution for is a leakdown test. I have a bike that I believe has a minor short somewhere that is slowly draining the battery. I know how to run it down, the problem is I need better resolution to be able to see when the draw stops. Does your method apply to this also? It makes me sad that I studied 3 years of electrical engineering in college and I can't remember sh!t. I guess it's true, if you don't use it you lose it...

Thanks for the recommendations so far, please keep them coming while I research the ones you guys mentioned.

Here's a way you can use your available meter to do that. Instead of using a microamp range, just lift one battery cable and connect the meter between the cable and battery post using a 12 volt range. If there's any draw, you'll see almost battery voltage. Once the draw is eliminated, that reading will drop sharply. I've used this trick for many years. Bear in mind that some ECUs will have a minor draw because they need to see a voltage to keep things alive internally.

 

[jfcasey]

You had me on the edge of my seat hoping to learn a method of doing a leakdown test with a multimeter

I think you meant parasitic draw test after reading your replies though

 

[theoldwizard1]

ddawg16 - I understand what you're saying, but what I need the resolution for is a leakdown test. I have a bike that I believe has a minor short somewhere that is slowly draining the battery. I know how to run it down, the problem is I need better resolution to be able to see when the draw stops. Does your method apply to this also? It makes me sad that I studied 3 years of electrical engineering in college and I can't remember sh!t. I guess it's true, if you don't use it you lose it...

I have been in the automotive world for well over 30 years. I never heard of an electrical "leakdown" test, but I know what you are talking about.

First, of course measuring voltage drop across a resistor is accurate. That if how ever ammeter works ! You just need to work Ohm's Law to find the best combination of resistance and voltage drop.

1KΩ will give you 0.1V drop at 0.0001A. Of course 10mA through that same resistor will give you a 10V drop, probably not a good thing. What you want is 3 or 4 0.1% resistors hooked to a rotary switch so that you can swap in the correct one.


Anything else, would be a "bench top" device with 6-8 digits and probably costing more than 5 or 10 Fluke handheld meters. The Agilent U1251B and U1253B are a good compromise for use in the field.

 

[Vvmvbb]

You might do just fine with a Fluke 115.

 

[zkling]

You had me on the edge of my seat hoping to learn a method of doing a leakdown test with a multimeter

I think you meant parasitic draw test after reading your replies though

You can with a scope or data logging meter.

 

[Ncognito]

Ncognito - What made you choose the 88 over the 87? I haven't bought the Wiha set yet because I can't afford it right now, but I am buying a small, incomplete set from a member here to at least get the feel of them. The price was good enough to buy just to try out.

Like you, I did a lot of reading on Garage Journal. I also talked to people who worked in the field, and the 88 kept coming up as the go to meter for auto technicians. I'll admit to not knowing much about electrical work yet, but I wanted to buy one meter and be done with it. I do like the 88's continuity beeper tone and the ability to test RPMs. I didn't think the 87 could make temperature measurements either. I had just finished my climate control class, so I thought that making temperature measurements would be pretty handy. To be honest though, there are better ways to do that so I probably won’t use the temp function much.

 

[zkling]

Like you, I did a lot of reading on Garage Journal. I also talked to people who worked in the field, and the 88 kept coming up as the go to meter for auto technicians. I'll admit to not knowing much about electrical work yet, but I wanted to buy one meter and be done with it. I do like the 88's continuity beeper tone and the ability to test RPMs. I didn't think the 87 could make temperature measurements either. I had just finished my climate control class, so I thought that making temperature measurements would be pretty handy. To be honest though, there are better ways to do that so I probably won’t use the temp function much.

It can. I'm not trying to be rude when I say this, but most peoples problem with multimeters and just test equipment in general is they don't go by the hard manufacture published data. At the core, the 87 is a more powerful computational meter than the 88. To fully utilize a multimeter one needs to know more than just red wire here, black wire there.

 

[bareass172]

I realize I used the wrong terminology for the test, sorry. I know it's parasitic draw, I get so used to trying to explain it to my customers that I dumb certain things down. I refer to it as a "current leak test" to them. Apologies, I just misspoke.

Of the meters mentioned here, I did some quick reduction in the lot by simply finding out which ones didn't fit the one real spec I listed - I wanted it to have DC Amp resolution below .1mA.

Fluke 115 - only good to .01 Amps
Fluke 287 - only good to .5mA
Klein MM2000 - only good to .4mA
Klein MM6000 - only good to .6mA
Agilent U1253B - only good to .5mA
Agilent U1252B - only good to .5mA
Brymen BM869 (Greenlee) - only good to .5mA
Amprobe 34XR-A - only good to .4mA

This leaves:
Fluke 83
Fluke 87
Fluke 88
Fluke 116
Fluke 179
Fluke 787
Test Products International Model 194 (Snap-On)

The 787 wasn't mentioned by anyone here, but it's at a local pawn shop for $250 in good condition. So as of right now, those are the ones I'm checking out more closely. The 87 definitely seems a strong candidate, mostly because it's so highly regarded by so many (not just here). I plan on checking the other brands mentioned to see if they have any that do fit my resolution, just for comparison. I realize at this point that I could buy an 87 and be happy, but I always over-analyze purchases like this. my g/f says I can take the fun out of shopping for anything.

Thanks for all the input, and thanks for the ways to test my draw problem.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I got my 194 new under 200. The probes are of decent quality, but I didn't like the banana plug. It also comes with a thermocouple adapter so you can take temperatures. Not trying to sell you on it, but I think it's a good value for your money if you're on a budget.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The 787 wasn't mentioned by anyone here, but it's at a local pawn shop for $250 in good condition.

If you are serious about accuracy and you are buying used, you need to have your meter calibrated at a metrology lab. Check with Fluke on what they charge.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Anything else, would be a "bench top" device with 6-8 digits and probably costing more than 5 or 10 Fluke handheld meters. The Agilent U1251B and U1253B are a good compromise for use in the field.

Agilent 34460A will measure 100μA to 3A Under $1,000.