freakin ****!!!!!

[diovol]

first off as soon as my camera charges i will be posting pics but here is my dilema.....

Ever since my wife and myself bought our first house ( about a month ago) I had a bad feeling about the garage.... I had noticed that the drywall in certain area's were all dried up and shrivled, like they had been previously wet. At first i thought it was because the drywall was touching the concrete footing but then tonite i noticed that it was in area's were there was atleast an inch of clearance above the footing. Now like previously stated some of those area's were wet to touch too. So after some thought and much anger i started to rip the drywall completely off to discover the insulation was black in various area's. Now the garage is an attached single car garage, so there are two walls that connect to the house, one wall that is an outside wall and then the other has the garage door. The wall that I ripped all of the drywall off of is attached to the kitchen. It is black in many various area's so that to me means mold and the biggest surprise was there is no vapour barrior any where when I ripped the drywall off. it was just pure insulation under the drywall then drywall again (the kitchen wall).....

what do I need to do?
Help please....

 

[Steevo]

The first thing to do is contact your attorney and the realtor, who should contact the home inspector that missed this, and you should get out of that purchase.
This mold is a lot older than the month you have been there, and sounds serious.

 

[diovol]

well moving out is a no go..... we have been in here for a month and yes we did have a home inspection done...... The home inspection here in canada in a non intrusive/ non invading ( which means they dont open things up).... Im hoping the mold is only on that wall. See the outside wall in the garage is not insulated. just drywalled. i believe you have to do that for code here. also the 2x4 studs are in great shape and the insulation in the attic of the house is good to so i am hope that the mold is just in the garage because of the No vaypour barrior. Also my house is a semi detattched and my neighbour is the original owner of his house.... Our homes were built in 1983... so i think moving out is a bit extreme.....

 

[Skin]

not quite sure you understand the severity of the problem. Mold and poor insulation means the walls have to be torn down to the framework. You going to foot the bill? Its either back out of the sale or begin what could potentially be a very long drawn out legal process.


you sound like an episode of holmes on homes

 

[tcianci]

Again here we go with the alarmists... so the guy has some mold. There are lots of different types of mold that mankind has been living with for millenia, not all of it is dangerous. The OP immediately point out the lack of a vapor barrier. While there should be a barrier on the warm side of the insulation, from the little information provided, it seems more like he is experiencing some sort of a leak. In any event, he should go at the problem systematically, determine the source of the moisture and repair as needed. Thankfully two of the cheapest building materials are drywall and fiberglass.

 

[diovol]

here are some pics....
Of the moldy insulation and of the 2x4 frame work that looks fine... see if I only have to do it from inside the garage thats no bad then i dont have to touch the walls inside the house. See I am assuming that the rest of the house has been vaypour barriered and that the mold in the garage is cause from no vaypour barrier... anyways here are the pics...

 

[dougmac]

The big question is where the heck did the water come from........

 

[ForceFed70]

The big question is where the heck did the water come from........

Agreed. Looking at those pics, the mold is everywhere. I suspect it's rain water from the roof.

 

[CarCrafter]

Yeah, grab the ladder and take some pics from outside and directly over the problem area.

 

[Jim51]

I've seen alot worse. Good photos. Peel back/remove some of those bats and have a look at the sheathing. I'd want to have a look behind the other 2 walls and the ceiling as well. Looks like the PO didn't bother bagging the electrical outlets either. What's on the other side of the walls, are they finished? I'd want to know how the moisture got in there, was the exterior left to the elements for awhile? The fix can be as simple or as complicated as you like. More photos please .... JB

 

[Jim51]

Sorry, just had another look at your photos. If I understand correctly, the end wall is up against your kitchen, the house is heated and the kitchen side has the vapour barrier. Is the moisture getting in there from wet vehicles maybe?

 

[ADaughen]

Wear a mask when you are working around that stuff. Dad tore out the water damaged drywall in our basement and he had a very bad reaction to the mold.

 

[Grumpy365]

The big question is where the heck did the water come from........

Condensation maybe?

 

[cowboyjosh]

Call Holmes on Homes.

Anyways, gotta find where the water is entering, might keep the walls open for awhile to investigate. I would have called my Realtor, Home Inspector, and everyone involved in the real estate transaction before the sunset the day you noticed the drywall and mold. I would also consider retaining a attorney, someone (likely the previous owner) likely knew of this deficiency, I would like to give folks the benefit of the doubt but only completely burned out clueless folks don't know about problems in their home.

Don't take offense to my question, I only mean the best; my question is, were either you or the home inspector blind the day of the inspection not to notice the damaged drywall that led you to rip open the wall? Call back the Home Inspector who you paid before you closed and have his *** come back out and take a look and don't be afraid to get a opinion of another inspector or contractor, just for another set of eyes and opinions.

Keep us posted.

 

[mad57]

bag that **** up and spray micro ban it kills all mold good and bad find the source of your leak and fix it....if all else fails with home inspector get a slimey lawyer and sue for consumer fraud....as a real estate contract is pretty much an as is deal thats the only way you can get ur money back most lawyers dont ask for any money until the job is complete. i was sued 2 yrs after i sold a house the lady was a pro scum bag and did it just to justify the lower housing market crash, instead of feeding my lawyer in defense i made an offer to make it go away ..im sure they would too good luck its not the end of the world here.

 

[walrus]

Looks like a vapor barrier on the warm side of the wall to me?, was a snow covered car brought into the garage? I'd guess some pretty high humidity in there.

 

[green.bubbly]

I am a little confused. There is clearly a plastic vapor barrier on the back side of the kitchen drywall which can be seen in several of the pictures.

To add to the confusion, I do not see any signs of water damage but it just may not be visible in the pictures. The studs do not appear to have water stains or any signs of mold.

Do you have any pics of the front side and backside of the drywall you removed? How old is the house?

 

[green.bubbly]

Looks like a vapor barrier on the warm side of the wall to me?, was a snow covered car brought into the garage? I'd guess some pretty high humidity in there.

I am a little confused. There is clearly a plastic vapor barrier on the back side of the kitchen drywall which can be seen in several of the pictures.

To add to the confusion, I do not see any signs of water damage but it just may not be visible in the pictures. The studs do not appear to have water stains or any signs of mold.

Do you have any pics of the front side and backside of the drywall you removed? How old is the house?

Great minds think alike.

You brought up a good point. Water from the car in the garage. Here in the deep south, we typically put a vapor barrier on the outside of the air conditioned areas. I am not sure of the weather in this part of Canada but if the summer is hot, then the moisture laden air from the hot garage could be condensing on the cool kitchen drywall if they are running an air conditioner.

Or, silly as it may sound, the previous owner may have liked to wash his car inside the garage, spraying water all over the drywall.

 

[diovol]

I've seen alot worse. Good photos. Peel back/remove some of those bats and have a look at the sheathing. I'd want to have a look behind the other 2 walls and the ceiling as well. Looks like the PO didn't bother bagging the electrical outlets either. What's on the other side of the walls, are they finished? I'd want to know how the moisture got in there, was the exterior left to the elements for awhile? The fix can be as simple or as complicated as you like. More photos please .... JB

well the other side of that wall is the kitchen( it is an attatched garage) and on the back side of the insulation it is fine.

I might be wrong but this is what I am thinking. I know they parked a car in there in the winter and like I said there was no vaypour barrier over the insulation when I took the drywall off. So im assuming that is where the moisture comes from.

 

[diovol]

I am a little confused. There is clearly a plastic vapor barrier on the back side of the kitchen drywall which can be seen in several of the pictures.

To add to the confusion, I do not see any signs of water damage but it just may not be visible in the pictures. The studs do not appear to have water stains or any signs of mold.

Do you have any pics of the front side and backside of the drywall you removed? How old is the house?

The drywall is fine ... no mold or anything on the backside. Im mean none. The 2x4 studs are fine to all the way up and down.

 

[Jeff]

I'm not a professional by any means, but does anyone else notice the mold is concentrated around the wall outlet? Is it possible the wall got wet from the drywall side and they tried or didn't try to cover it up? Just looks a little odd to me.

 

[green.bubbly]

The drywall is fine ... no mold or anything on the backside. Im mean none. The 2x4 studs are fine to all the way up and down.

This may be good news. Not a professional but if you had a water leak from the roof or something, seems to me there would be mold on the studs at least.

The last poster made a good point, the mold seems to be the worse around the receptacle and the perimeter of the wall where moisture could get in. From what I see, it appears that there is just too much moisture in the garage. Correct that issue and repair the wall.

Maybe call in an insulation expert familiar with your environment. But it looks like there is no major problems to repair. A little mold removal and new insulation and drywall and you should be back in business.

 

[rasit]

I'm not a professional by any means, but does anyone else notice the mold is concentrated around the wall outlet?

Yeah I noticed that right away and immediatly thought condensation/high humidity from the garage side. I'm gonna go with washing the car or they had a hot tub in the garage. Either way it doesn't look too extensive as the wood hasn't been affected at all. Remove and Replace.

 

[GarageEnvy]

I work as an appraiser and the world has become mold paranoid for sure. It's a huge thing in my industry so they just offered some formal training on it. According to the environmental engineer who specializes in mold testing and remediation there are about 100,000 types of mold and about 10,000 that are black. Of the 100,000 and the 10,000 a small percentage are toxic. You can't tell by looking at it if it's toxic (i.e. simply because it is black). That's not to say this isn't a problem or to make light of your situation. Personally I'd get it tested before I even considered touching it. The remediation expert noted many cases where it was contained to an area until someone started ripping into things and floating mold spores all over the place. In my area that testing is about $500-$600. If it came back toxic you'd know not to touch it and have it handled correctly by professionals. If not, then you'd at least know that by tearing it out you weren't compounding the problem.

 

[Professur]

What gets me is the studs are clean.

 

[HoustonPSD]

Is it possible the insulation was installed after it had gotten wet/moist. It's just weird how it all has a similar dampness pattern no matter where it is on the wall.

 

[diovol]

This may be good news. Not a professional but if you had a water leak from the roof or something, seems to me there would be mold on the studs at least.

The last poster made a good point, the mold seems to be the worse around the receptacle and the perimeter of the wall where moisture could get in. From what I see, it appears that there is just too much moisture in the garage. Correct that issue and repair the wall.

Maybe call in an insulation expert familiar with your environment. But it looks like there is no major problems to repair. A little mold removal and new insulation and drywall and you should be back in business.

but see the receptacle in on the cold side. The backside of that wall is the kitchen and that is where the vaypour barrier is because it is the heated side.......

 

[nathank]

What does toxic black mold do to people?

And why did it all the sudden become such a hot topic in recent years? Were people living in the old days too badass to be affected?

There was some black looking mold in my AC closet from a leak. I fixed the leak and sprayed bleach on the mold. I'm still alive.

 

[theroyz71]

Did they pressure wash the garage wall before they put it on the market?

 

[c_mccann]

Call your real estate agent and hold on.

 

[GarageEnvy]

What does toxic black mold do to people?

And why did it all the sudden become such a hot topic in recent years? Were people living in the old days too badass to be affected?

There was some black looking mold in my AC closet from a leak. I fixed the leak and sprayed bleach on the mold. I'm still alive.

I can only speak from the liability side instead of the health side. I'm sure details are available on the web somewhere but I'm too lazy to look it up. However, my liability insurance carrier a few years ago sent out a "claim alert". They do this periodically when there is something new (or a precedent that has been set) that creates liability. Apparently somewhere in Texas there were homes that had toxic mold. The occupants became (or at least claimed to be) sick. Lawsuits filed and the outcome was that the homes had to be demolished. I have no experience with the case but I pictured guys in suits with taped up bags, specialized equipment, caution tape all over the place and sampling the air 32 states away. It's just like the asbestos. Once someone establishes the potential for liability it becomes a hot button.

As far as health concerns go I was told by the expert I mentioned above that complaints were largely respiratory related. Not to make light of the seriousness of the affected people but a lot of the symptoms seemed very vague. He mentioned stuff like asthma, allergy, difficulty breathing, headaches, etc. All I can tell you is that like lead based paint and asbestos, anytime I see even a hint of mold I have to take photos and comment on it so my client is aware. Even if a little bleach and water looks like it would clean it up in 2 seconds the lender/client usually requires that someone remove and repair it and then they have me go back out and reinspect it.

 

[diovol]

Call your real estate agent and hold on.

hold on to what? i have been in the house for a month. I called my realestate agent and he said it is gonna be hard to do anything because all they have to do is say they didnt know it was there which in all fairness they might not have...

 

[fflintstone]

I'm not a professional by any means, but does anyone else notice the mold is concentrated around the wall outlet? Is it possible the wall got wet from the drywall side and they tried or didn't try to cover it up? Just looks a little odd to me.

X3 (the pictures don’t lie)

This is the point of moisture intrusion, weather from the heated side or the garage side or both. (my bet is warm moist kitchen air is migrating thru the electrical opening and condensing on the cold insulation.) Just because it is BLACK does not mean its mold. Mildew is black as well. I would remove the insulation, seal any and all holes to warm side with caulk. Spray bleach on ANY black spots. Make sure EVERYTHING is dry and then re insulate and re drywall.
Dont bother with a lawyer, just fix it. you will be money and time way ahead.

 

[cowboyjosh]

I might also KILZ the studs and backside of the new drywall to seal everything good (do this before you hang new drywall) to prevent future problems. I still think a previous owner had to know about this before they sold the house thou.

 

[drmoonshine]

I'm all for staying in that house but you do need to call the Realtor because their is a definite legal issue.

 

[blkhonda1991]

I'm all for staying in that house but you do need to call the Realtor because their is a definite legal issue.

not at all a legal issue. the mold was inside of a wall, it couldnt possibly have been known by the previous owner and even if they did know you cant prove they knew, there is no legal recourse.

 

[diovol]

X3 (the pictures don’t lie)

This is the point of moisture intrusion, weather from the heated side or the garage side or both. (my bet is warm moist kitchen air is migrating thru the electrical opening and condensing on the cold insulation.) Just because it is BLACK does not mean its mold. Mildew is black as well. I would remove the insulation, seal any and all holes to warm side with caulk. Spray bleach on ANY black spots. Make sure EVERYTHING is dry and then re insulate and re drywall.
Dont bother with a lawyer, just fix it. you will be money and time way ahead.

I totally agree.... All of the concentrated area are where there were holes... either from drywall screw (from hanging stuff) improperly installed outlets( which there are only 2 because the third one which is almost dead center pic is not thru the vaypour barrier.... it is on the garage side not the other side. also alot of baseboard nails .... anyways here are some updated pics....

 

[Daniel Dudley]

Those are darned clean studs. I have seem moldier studs in the lumber yard.

 

[jay50]

find the previous owner and go kick his ***

 

[A1an]

Even though this was a non intrusive inspection...how the hell did the inspector miss the drywall issue? From what you described the condition of the walls should have tipped him off to advise you to go invasive to see what lurks behind the drywall before you closed on the house.

Not sure how it works in Canada, but in the US you do have some recourse if you pay for an inspection and they miss something obvious like this.