Free standing vs attached deck..

[BellyUpFish]

Hey guys-

Let's pretend there are no permits or code involved, but we want the strongest, best idea for the porch..

We had thought about having a poured back porch for our current home under construction, but as we have been thinking about it, the more we have decided to go with a wooden deck inside the brick veneer.

I'm going to be building the deck and I'm debating freestanding vs ledger boards.

The deck is roughly 12x24 with a small bump out at one end, I'll attach some pictures.

One ledger would go straight into cinder blocks, the other ledger would go through the brick veneer and into cinder blocks.

What do you guys think?

Inside the porch.



Outside..

 

[usa#1]

Check the new deck building codes. Ledger attachment is getting complicated. I personally like free standing.

 

[BellyUpFish]

Check the new deck building codes. Ledger attachment is getting complicated. I personally like free standing.

Fortunately, we aren't "encumbered" by code where I am building, sorta.. I'm kinda in a odd spot where they care about some things, don't care about others..

Building in the county where I'm "inside the planning district" of the city.

I too think I'd prefer to do a freestanding deck, but it'd be hard to get at the rim joists inside the bricked portion.

 

[RVDan]

I'd rather attach it to the house but I'd need a permit for that, so I'd go freestanding, no permit or inspection required.

 

[BellyUpFish]

I'd rather attach it to the house but I'd need a permit for that, so I'd go freestanding, no permit or inspection required.

Why would you prefer attached to the house? Even with the ledgers into cinder Block?

Seems like the ledger would have issues into the block.

I'd rather do a freestanding deck, but I haven't wrapped my head around how to do the trim joist from the inside - can't screw from the outside due to the blocks..

 

[sni-per]

Nice looking new home! Congrats!! Either way you build the new deck, don't forget to run a gas line for the grill, electrical for the fridge, and water for the bar

 

[StuartH]

I went freestanding with mine, the deck surface varies in height from 3' to about 4 1/2' off of the ground due to ground slope away from he house. With good prep it hasn't moved a bit in height or distance from the house foundation in the 8 years it's been there. I used sonotubes and overkill on the framing since I wanted flexibility for a possible future hot tub.

As for why I went freestanding, I have a post tensioned slab that was still under warranty and for both reasons I didn't want to drill into the foundation (to put the deck at the height I needed it in order to be flush with an existing raised concrete patio).

 

[MushCreek]

I couldn't figure out whether my ledger and framing met current code, and my deck is 10' off the ground, so I did both. I attached the framing to the ledger, AND added vertical posts and diagonal bracing. If my house weren't solid concrete, I'd say the deck was the strongest part. Ironically, the inspector didn't even look at it.

 

[nutjob]

If you put in a deck what happens to the space under the deck? Would you have any access or will you have fill to the bottom of the deck? Any space under the deck without access I would think would turn into a mess or a home for something....

What are the openings for on the house walls? Looks like vents for a crawl space?

What about filling it in and having a patio?

If you are going deck, free standing. No worries about flashing the ledger boards or attachment.


Kevin

 

[Cyberbear]

You have several options for your deck project. I don't really see major differences between free standing or attached, if done properly with strength and durability in mind. An access provided for future inspection underneath might have been a good idea. Also, post and beam construction is another choice for the wooden decking, you'd have the needed strength and could use any type of decking material that seemed appropriate.

 

[dbabicky]

I plan on doing a free standing deck in the front of my house. My reasons here are taxes and frost. It'll be about 10'x24' so it's not going to move away from the house. It'll only be about 1-1.5 ft. off the ground so not too tall.

 

[BellyUpFish]

I couldn't figure out whether my ledger and framing met current code, and my deck is 10' off the ground, so I did both.

I think given my space to work in, this is going to make the most sense. A little bit of both.

If you put in a deck what happens to the space under the deck? Would you have any access or will you have fill to the bottom of the deck? Any space under the deck without access I would think would turn into a mess or a home for something....

What are the openings for on the house walls? Looks like vents for a crawl space?

What about filling it in and having a patio?

If you are going deck, free standing. No worries about flashing the ledger boards or attachment.

If we put in a deck, the space under the deck would be covered in fabric and left alone. No filling, no real access unless I wanted to pull boards.

The openings are "crawl space vents" or at least there to mimic the rest of the crawl space vents. They'd be "deck vents" if I put a deck there.

Here is a somewhat better picture looking into the space.. The vents on the far wall in this image are crawl space vents.

 

[Almostbroke94]

We always do free standing decks when dealing with brick homes. The last one we built was 32 X 18 with 12 footings, turned out to be a very sturdy deck.

 

[bczygan]

Whenever I think about structures that have outdoor weather that can effect them, I think about how water will flow over and through them.

Wood exposed to water is a material that will eventually need replacement, no matter what you do. So the sim is to protect is as best you can.

This means the choice of the wood material, and details on how it is installed need careful attention.

Having masonry available, as support, solves structural problems, so I would use it where I could. At the same time, masonry is porous and wood in direct contact will wick moisture. And moist wood will more readily rot.

So my answer is a mixed one.

Mounting a ledger on the face of a masonry wall has some detail problems, but they can be overcome. Same with wood bearing on the top of a masonry wall.

I would try to detail and install the deck so that in the distant future, it could be easily repaired or replaced without damaging the masonry structure.

Bill

 

[CNGsaves]

We always do free standing decks when dealing with brick homes. The last one we built was 32 X 18 with 12 footings, turned out to be a very sturdy deck.

^ ^ ^ +1 This.

Free standing with sonotube piers and attachments up off the concrete.

Use joist hangers and you won't have any assembly issues out at walls. Paint or stain the hell out of rim joists that are near/contacting walls along with cut ends of boards. With freestanding design, you can purposefully leave in gaps for water to get away.

Good idea to design removable section so you can inspect/clean down there and handle spraying for bugs/termites. For that section, you could have more piers so that "access section" could be removable by taking out lag bolts of the section.

 

[Playwme]

Freestanding out of metal is my vote. Make that bad boy so it'll never sag or rot and you won't have to touch the frame in your lifetime.

 

[southalabama]

Seen a few rental properties with the ledger board ripped off due to excess load.

In block or brick I'd definitely go free standing. Most brick is veneer.

 

[rburke65]

"Lets assume there are no permits or codes".... and the first response is "check the codes"....dah!

 

[BellyUpFish]

"Lets assume there are no permits or codes".... and the first response is "check the codes"....dah!

To be fair, I edited the post...

 

[pollockjon68]

I attached my deck to the house and it transfers noise into the house. I can hear when someone comes up the steps or kids playing on the deck. The next deck I build will be free standing.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

With the construction you have there now; frankly, I don't get why you would "deck it". You're just creating another annual maintenance headache.

I'd be reducing the height of that wall, backfilling the area, and pouring a slab. Put a light broom finish on it and be done. Your maintenance is a pressure washing every couple of years.

No attachment requirements, no questions about strength or integrity. No worries about water collection, weeds, animals, or other pests getting trapped within that "dead space".

 

[Evilunclegrimace]

Have a look at Trex Elevations steel deck framing. It has a 25 year warranty and does not shrink or twist like PT lumber.

 

[BellyUpFish]

With the construction you have there now; frankly, I don't get why you would "deck it". You're just creating another annual maintenance headache.

Mainly because I prefer the feel of wood under my bare feet to concrete.

I've never had that many issues with deck maintenance.

I'd be reducing the height of that wall, backfilling the area, and pouring a slab.

How would you solve the doors coming onto the porch? Steps out of the house to the slab?

 

[Dustball]

How about back-filling/compacting to raise the level then doing sleepers and decking on top?

 

[strutaeng]

How are you going to attach through the brick? The brick is just a veneer with a 1" air space, right?

Simpson Strong-Tie makes ties that get attached to the house rim joist with threaded rods, DTT2Z.

For free standing, you will need some piers with X-bracing for stability.

Look up the Simpson Deck Connection and Fastening Guide.

 

[BellyUpFish]

How about back-filling/compacting to raise the level then doing sleepers and decking on top?

That's actually not a bad idea.. I'll have to look into that.

How are you going to attach through the brick? The brick is just a veneer with a 1" air space, right?



Simpson Strong-Tie makes ties that get attached to the house rim joist with threaded rods, DTT2Z.



For free standing, you will need some piers with X-bracing for stability.



Look up the Simpson Deck Connection and Fastening Guide.

If I did a ledger board, I'd have to fill the blocks on one side for the fasteners and on the other I'd have to make a 2x8 sandwich via a ledger-brick veneer-air gap-cinder block-2x8 backer board, since I can't get in to pour the blocks under the covered porch.

Right now, free standing is the front runner, still contemplating how to end nail the rim joists since I'll be building it essentially inside a box, I wouldn't be able to end nail the corners.

I've got an idea, but i dunno if it'll be feasible.

 

[BellyUpFish]

How are you going to attach through the brick? The brick is just a veneer with a 1" air space, right?

Simpson Strong-Tie makes ties that get attached to the house rim joist with threaded rods, DTT2Z.

For free standing, you will need some piers with X-bracing for stability.

Look up the Simpson Deck Connection and Fastening Guide.

Those DTT2Z's look interesting.

I am going to run out to the house and see how much footer I've got inside the perimeter of the porch, if there is enough, I am contemplating using elevated post bases and just build a free standing deck right into the footer..

 

[Dustball]

Right now, free standing is the front runner, still contemplating how to end nail the rim joists since I'll be building it essentially inside a box, I wouldn't be able to end nail the corners.

I've got an idea, but i dunno if it'll be feasible.

Joist hangers.

For the corners, use these-

 

[BellyUpFish]

Joist hangers.

For the corners, use these-

That'll work!

 

[Justanoldguy]

To be fair, I edited the post...

2 hours after that second post though.

 

[BellyUpFish]

2 hours after that second post though.

People only read what they want to read..

 

[dirttracker18]

Joist hangers.

For the corners, use these-

I know you don't have to worry about code but here joist hangers are code now. Nailing through really should t be used to support a load. Those hangers are super cheap and do a far better job.

 

[BellyUpFish]

I know you don't have to worry about code but here joist hangers are code now. Nailing through really should t be used to support a load. Those hangers are super cheap and do a far better job.

I want it done correctly and the best way I can and if that's what code is, I'm cool with that.

Sometimes it seems like there are code requirements that are non-sensical and those are the ones I'd like to avoid.

We can follow code when it makes sense..

 

[pmiranda]

I dunno if that CMU wall is sufficient to hold if you backfill as-is. I'd do concrete piers and freestanding PT structure with a normal deck on top. With an access panel... maybe lay out all the deck boards and borders with 4x4 (or whatever works for the dimensions) "panel" design and one of them can be lifted out. Could look very sharp... for that matter if the whole thing were panels that would give you a way to seal/stain the edges.

Like this but bigger:

 

[BellyUpFish]

I'd love to do the crosshatch pattern but the wife hates it.... I think we will just go diagonally in one direction..

We are leaning heavily towards free standing, especially after I ran some quick numbers, it'll be cheaper in (in the short term) to go ahead and build a free-standing deck.

I've been working and haven't been able to get out to the house, I am hoping I can use the poured footer to mount the 6x6 posts and go from there.

 

[BellyUpFish]

I appreciate everyone's help. I went to the house today and looked at how much footer from the house I could use, I've got almost 8-10" all around the perimeter of where the deck will be, so I think I'll go free standing and use post bases into the footer.

 

[jd_1138]

I'd just do free standing.

 

[bandaidmd]

i did free standing using those concrete pyramids right on top of the existing grade, stayed level for the last 10 years even with a 400 gallon hot tub on one end. the theory is they should all settle equally which seems to have worked out. Were required to get a zoneing permit but not a building permit (mainly just check for property line encroachment issues) for freestanding decks ,sheds and pools.

 

[Ironcrow]

With the construction you have there now; frankly, I don't get why you would "deck it". You're just creating another annual maintenance headache.

I'd be reducing the height of that wall, backfilling the area, and pouring a slab. Put a light broom finish on it and be done. Your maintenance is a pressure washing every couple of years.

No attachment requirements, no questions about strength or integrity. No worries about water collection, weeds, animals, or other pests getting trapped within that "dead space".

This^^^^. And if I didn't like the feel of concrete on my bare feet, I'd place boards on the concrete. Or even better, tile.

 

[BellyUpFish]

This^^^^. And if I didn't like the feel of concrete on my bare feet, I'd place boards on the concrete. Or even better, tile.

If I reduce the wall height, I'll have to build stairs to both doors that come out onto the back porch.. Not very "feng shui."

I thought about pouring it and putting a sleeper deck on it, but I can put almost 3 wooden decks down for the same cost it looks like.