Fully customized toolboxes...anybody interested?

[AlchemyMetalworks]

This is only my second post, but...I thought I'd lead off strong and see how it works.

I have noticed there is an appreciation for the Harbor Freight/US General toolboxes for being a good value. I have also noticed how people love their truck-brand boxes.

Is there room in this market for a niche product...the fully custom box? Meaning a box buiilt-to-order, here in the USA, using locally sourced materials at a price point between the Harbor Freight box and the Snap-On roller?

When I say fully custom, I mean FULLY custom. Looking to fill a space in your garage that a 41" or 56" box doesn't quite work out...but maybe a 48" box would? Want a totally custom configuration of drawers...say alternating deep/shallow or all deep on the RHS, all shallow on the LHS? Want auto-style paintjob or maybe you want a powdercoat finish that isn't stock in the other brands?

I would love to hear your opinions, but most importantly...I want to hear the options that you would LOVE to have when dealing with existing products.

 

[NJHandyGuy]

Yes but price would be the biggest factor it is a niche i would love to see filled but quailty /value versus price would be an issue

 

[trout]

If I was in the market, I would consider it an option.
Ideally it would be nice to offer a "standard" box that people who just one or two things special could ask for without having to think of the design of a full box.

If it was an reasonably priced option when I was buying a box, I'd mostly be interested in custom width of the box, custom width of the drawers, and choosing my own drawer depths.

 

[AlchemyMetalworks]

Yes but price would be the biggest factor it is a niche i would love to see filled but quailty /value versus price would be an issue

I could never justify a truck-brand pricetag to myself, let alone a customer. However, I couldn't pay for materials and myself if the pricetag was at HF levels.

The goal is to offer better than existing quality at affordable prices...not cheap, but not expensive.

To some, the Made in the USA label matters. To others, the quality is most important. To others still, the options and opportunity to design a box EXACTLY how you want it built is the ultimate thrill.

This idea grew out of my own frustration with existing solutions...imagining how it could be with the kind of customer service that I would actually want to receive, with the kind of product I would actually want to buy, with a pricetag I could actually afford and would be willing to spend.

 

[amolaver]

interested, absolutely. willing to pay what i think it would cost? probably not.

perhaps you can post some pics of some example layouts and dimensions, point out any special features of those boxes, and how much they'd cost with the caveat being that each box is custom, prices WILL vary, etc.

i think people need some examples and their price point to say more definitively how interested they would be.

not to deflate the idea, but keep in mind strictlytoolboxes does semi-custom boxes i believe (within the outer dimensions of their standard boxes, so custom drawer layouts but not custom box widths). i think. maybe.

ahm

 

[NJHandyGuy]

I could never justify a truck-brand pricetag to myself, let alone a customer. However, I couldn't pay for materials and myself if the pricetag was at HF levels.

The goal is to offer better than existing quality at affordable prices...not cheap, but not expensive.

To some, the Made in the USA label matters. To others, the quality is most important. To others still, the options and opportunity to design a box EXACTLY how you want it built is the ultimate thrill.

This idea grew out of my own frustration with existing solutions...imagining how it could be with the kind of customer service that I would actually want to receive, with the kind of product I would actually want to buy, with a pricetag I could actually afford and would be willing to spend.

I Hear you i've been in the market for a detial cart for years but have yet to find one that has a deep enough drawer for polishers rags cyclo polishers etc portable and just usable

i have yet to find a cart that has the RIGHT features at a not rediculos cost or can handle more than home owner use

 

[AlchemyMetalworks]

If I was in the market, I would consider it an option.
Ideally it would be nice to offer a "standard" box that people who just one or two things special could ask for without having to think of the design of a full box.

If it was an reasonably priced option when I was buying a box, I'd mostly be interested in custom width of the box, custom width of the drawers, and choosing my own drawer depths.

What standard sizes would be an appreciated offering for this crowd?

The entire point of this exercise is about establishing a reasonable alternative...both with options and pricing.

(It is kinda funny to think that "standard" sizes would be something that people would want from a fully-custom box )

 

[NJHandyGuy]

first person to make a box with pneumatic tires /casters ball bearing slides a GREAT locking system a deep bottom drawer (circular saws buffers etc yet shallow enought tops to be usefull and a narrow profile 30"

in my opinion will have a winner if they can do it $600 or less

maybe a standard folding shelf and springs on the casters for "hard rolls" oh and design it with moving it from shop to shop in mind

cars have hook shots why not the toolbox

 

[tonydanzah]

if only the one used all metric or standard so we could get away with the small boxes the euros have

 

[trout]

What standard sizes would be an appreciated offering for this crowd?

The entire point of this exercise is about establishing a reasonable alternative...both with options and pricing.

(It is kinda funny to think that "standard" sizes would be something that people would want from a fully-custome box )

I've ordered custom stuff before and it's always easier for the customer if they have a jumping off point. Just something so they can say, "I want box X but 5" wider and with two drawers 6" deep." Much easier than making the customer give you every single spec.

 

[AlchemyMetalworks]

interested, absolutely. willing to pay what i think it would cost? probably not.

perhaps you can post some pics of some example layouts and dimensions, point out any special features of those boxes, and how much they'd cost with the caveat being that each box is custom, prices WILL vary, etc.

i think people need some examples and their price point to say more definitively how interested they would be.

not to deflate the idea, but keep in mind strictlytoolboxes does semi-custom boxes i believe (within the outer dimensions of their standard boxes, so custom drawer layouts but not custom box widths). i think. maybe.

ahm

I believe you would be surprised at how reasonable the prices could be...no middlemen, no executive salaries, no stockholders shares to plump quarter by quarter.

I can see your point...but without real-life suggestions meant to solve an existing problem, examples for examples sake would simply be a waste of material and time.

Does anyone offer an unlimited palate of colors or finishes on their boxes? Are they offering a choice of square corners or radiused corners? How about choice of materials?

 

[scott37300]

I think it's a great idea but need a lot more details to see if there is a market or not. There is a pretty big market for tool boxes, and everyone is always looking for the most quality for the best price=value. Everyone has to balance the quality vs. price to their own needs/budget. Harborfreight boxes aren't the best quality but they are decent quality for a good price. Snap on boxes are nice quality but you are paying high price for that quality. If you can build something that is quality and priced FAIR(not cheap but reasonable) I think your boxes will sell themselves once the word gets out. But in the begining they have to be cheap enough for people to be willing to take a chance on them until your boxes have a name for themselves. In any business a quality product at a fair price is a good business model.

I think you need to put together an example to get a good feel for the market. People need to see exactly what you are trying to sell and then PRICE it. People need a price, right now all you say is between 300 dollars and 10,000 dollars. If you come up with a model example and a price it would get a lot better idea of interest.

Saying quality at fair price is pretty vague.

 

[Steve from Socal]

It sounds like you have a sheet metal shop? I have actually been considering getting some quotes on storage cabinets. Do you have the capability to make wide drawer cabinets like flat files or a Lista double wide? These would need to have a drawer weight rating similar to a Lista, they would hold tooling for machines.

I personally would like three cabinets 60" wide 28.5 deep and 33-34" high with several drawers about seven per cabinet ranging from 2.5 to 8" high. The finish could be either paint or powder in a standard color.

 

[scott37300]

I can see your point...but without real-life suggestions meant to solve an existing problem, examples for examples sake would simply be a waste of material and time.

It takes money to make money. I personally would NEVER order anything from a company, let alone a new product that says they will provide a quality box at a fair price but doesn't have anything for me to see what I am going to be getting.

If you have a fab shop of some kind I would build some shop cabinets and take some pictures of them and list a price to go with them. Have to start somewhere.

 

[AlchemyMetalworks]

I think it's a great idea but need a lot more details to see if there is a market or not. There is a pretty big market for tool boxes, and everyone is always looking for the most quality for the best price=value. Everyone has to balance the quality vs. price to their own needs/budget. Harborfreight boxes aren't the best quality but they are decent quality for a good price. Snap on boxes are nice quality but you are paying high price for that quality. If you can build something that is quality and priced FAIR(not cheap but reasonable) I think your boxes will sell themselves once the word gets out. But in the begining they have to be cheap enough for people to be willing to take a chance on them until your boxes have a name for themselves. In any business a quality product at a fair price is a good business model.

I think you need to put together an example to get a good feel for the market. People need to see exactly what you are trying to sell and then PRICE it. People need a price, right now all you say is between 300 dollars and 10,000 dollars. If you come up with a model example and a price it would get a lot better idea of interest.

Saying quality at fair price is pretty vague.

Fair enough.

The argument for/against the store brands (HF, Sears, HD, Lowes, Menards, etc) versus the truck brands (SO, Mac, Cornwell, etc) is a moot point for the purposes of this thread...NOT because it isn't important, but because I simply cannot compete at the beginning with the established companies! Maybe in my wildest dreams I could, but that would be an expansion that would be several orders of magnitude larger than I could handle with the equipment/space at my disposal.

Because this would be a niche product, a fully customized box is feasible, leveraging the technology available to me, using the resources I have at hand.

As for pricing, the fixed cost would be my labor...the variables would be materials and finishing.

Pricing is exactly what I want to discover by crowd-sourcing. I can promise that NO box I build would EVER be $10,000 unless it was gold-plated and armor-shielded.

I'm trying to find the sweet spot...and offer the customer the options that they want.

I can understand the frustration of being offered an opportunity and not knowing the price-point/feature content. I also understand the frustration of limited choice and fixed pricing.

My core customer-base that I would like to build is the frustrated consumer that isn't being addressed by the current offerings. Please bear with me, as you all are a great lot and have alot of good ideas & suggestions. This will bear fruit if you are willing to be patient with me to develop a platform that meets your needs.

I'm trying to perform my due-diligence just as you are

 

[AlchemyMetalworks]

It sounds like you have a sheet metal shop? I have actually been considering getting some quotes on storage cabinets. Do you have the capability to make wide drawer cabinets like flat files or a Lista double wide? These would need to have a drawer weight rating similar to a Lista, they would hold tooling for machines.

I personally would like three cabinets 60" wide 28.5 deep and 33-34" high with several drawers about seven per cabinet ranging from 2.5 to 8" high. The finish could be either paint or powder in a standard color.

I have a fab shop with access to some very high-end machines in the area. Everything I build (at first) will be to fit the customers criteria...maybe down the road I will be able to offer standardized sizes. I really want to build a reputation for delivering a high-quality product at a sane price and fulfilling the individual needs of my customers.

I do have the capability to build cabinets like you are suggesting...I have worked in machine shops for the past 7 years...I am quite familiar with the requirements you are after!

If you would like to PM me, please feel free, so not to as lead this thread on a tangent...this one was intended to be a fact-finding mission

 

[2chipped]

Imho, start out out with 1# 6 drawer toolcart (with prybar ,screwdriver,wrench and socket holders) and 1# 30wX 22dX36h,and a 1# 56wX29dX 40h as a base, to show off your caliber of workmanship ie: weld quality,casters,slides,gauge of drawers and box.
Oh............. and offer it in several basic colors. i

 

[danski0224]

Fair enough.

The argument for/against the store brands (HF, Sears, HD, Lowes, Menards, etc) versus the truck brands (SO, Mac, Cornwell, etc) is a moot point for the purposes of this thread...NOT because it isn't important, but because I simply cannot compete at the beginning with the established companies! Maybe in my wildest dreams I could, but that would be an expansion that would be several orders of magnitude larger than I could handle with the equipment/space at my disposal.

Because this would be a niche product, a fully customized box is feasible, leveraging the technology available to me, using the resources I have at hand.

As for pricing, the fixed cost would be my labor...the variables would be materials and finishing.

Pricing is exactly what I want to discover by crowd-sourcing. I can promise that NO box I build would EVER be $10,000 unless it was gold-plated and armor-shielded.

I'm trying to find the sweet spot...and offer the customer the options that they want.

I can understand the frustration of being offered an opportunity and not knowing the price-point/feature content. I also understand the frustration of limited choice and fixed pricing.

My core customer-base that I would like to build is the frustrated consumer that isn't being addressed by the current offerings. Please bear with me, as you all are a great lot and have alot of good ideas & suggestions. This will bear fruit if you are willing to be patient with me to develop a platform that meets your needs.

I'm trying to perform my due-diligence just as you are

Ok.

So, pick a truck brand tool box and tell us how much it will cost for you to make it or some variation that is quite similar.

Show an example of your fit and finish for that price point.

I have a Lista box. I know from experience that adding drawers will drive up the cost because slides are expensive. It would be difficult for the average fabricator to duplicate the Lista slide attachment system on the box housing or the slides themselves for a reasonable cost.

Even the Lista drawer locking mechanisim is pretty nice.

The Snap-On slides pale in comparison to Lista, but Snap-On puts their money in the finish of the box and the name that is on it.

I have a pair of Accu-Ride full extension slides on my welding cart, and those were $130.00 for the pair. Enough slides to make 1 drawer. Better than Snap-On but not the same as the Lista carriage system.

I also know how much good US made casters cost... almost $100 a pop is a pretty easy number to hit. Those fancy looking spring suspension casters are easily double.

The drawer boxes and their basic variations are probably the easiest thing to make... before welding and finishing.

A manufacturer like Lista or Snap-On has standardized methods of construction.

I would bet money that their respective box carcasses and drawers are made on fully automated press brake setups. They probably take a pre-cut blank of flat steel that is the proper size and the machine shows and does the bend sequence on the monitor... all the worker has to do is flip it in the sequence given by the machine. I would be surprised if the employees are unionized and making more than $20 an hour. This type of fabrication work pays significantly less than $20 an hour in my area. The majority of these production shops are non-union.

I don't see how you can equal or better Lista quality for less unless you are working for free. The quality of the Snap-On finish will be difficult to match.

So, post up a copyrighted drawing of a basic custom toolbox with enough dimensions and specifications so we know what it is, and put a price tag on it.

Also let us know your deposit and payment schedule, plus what assurances the client has that you will keep up your end of the deal (ie: delivery date, warranty).



Then, when someone orders one, let us know how far into construction you are when that "oh ****, I didn't charge enough" moment happens....

 

[onemore]

New for the price Harbor freight has great value, but Craftsman on sale might get you better quality. If you have time, Craigslist has some great deals and you can haggle, but must be patient. Whatever you decide on, can always Upgrade when things get going. Good luck

 

[UncleJoe]

Just an guess but I feel pretty confident that if you priced out all the components, steel, ball bearing slides, casters, paint/powdercoat, handles, etc, your material costs would already be over the cost of a similar HF tool chest and pretty darn close to a high end model. Now add in time and money for design, labor and shop cost and I would bet you are at least at the same price as the high end tool chests. This leaves you no profit and with no profit you have no funds to handle any warranty issues that may arise or any advertising to tell the public about your product.

Now if you can build a line of standard boxes so you can utilize the economy of scale then you might have enough profit to cover the cost of also offering a custom solution.

IMHO custom boxes would have to be priced too high for the average guy but might make it for the high end customer that is a car collector or a purchasing agent for a large company that doe not care about cost.

If the question is would I want a custom box, the answer is hell yes. Would I pay more for it? Well that depends on how much more. It is not like no one offers a decent box out there. Sure you may not like how some drawers are laid out but does it bother you enough to pay a weeks pay to change it or a months pay? Not for me.

 

[danski0224]

Now if you can build a line of standard boxes so you can utilize the economy of scale then you might have enough profit to cover the cost of also offering a custom solution.

Just like Lista, eh?

Pick a drawer housing and fill it as you see fit.

They will also work with you for custom modifications.

That said, it was still too much for me, but I scored a really nice scratch and dent that pretty much fit my needs for 40% off new.

 

[honcho]

Full custom tool quality toolboxes for less than Snap On or equivalent? Bring it on! I appreciate and applaud those entrepreneurs looking for ways to fulfill needs in the marketplace that current vendors don't meet.

However, I'm going to put a little economic rain on your parade. The economics aren't in your favor unless you make it in China or some other very low cost location.

I know you mentioned that you have access to machinery but if you progress beyond a box or two you're going to need to cut the owner of the equipment in on your revenue unless you want to bootleg services until they kick you out!

Labor is going to kill you. What's you're labor worth? If you're making $50k/year that's $25/hr for a 2000 hour (50 weeks at 40 hrs/week) year. But that's not what it costs your employer. Depending on your industry and benefits, add another 25-50% in benefits and overhead costs. How many boxes can 1 person make a year?

Real Estate: For anything other than a very low level production rate, floorspace to accommodate material storage, efficient production processing, inventory and shipping will take thousands of square feet of storage. Sadly, there is plenty of idle factory space available in the USA but it's not an insignificant expense.

Machinery: You can make boxes with a metal shear, bending brake, spot welding gear and punch setup but it will be labor intensive with general purpose tools that will have to be setup for each custom size. Higher production rates will require customized machinery

Material costs for a quality product produced in low volumes will be much higher than for a volume manufacturer. Flat steel coil is running about $800/ton (and unless you have the equipment to turn coils into sheet then you're going to have to be buying sheets at a much higher price. So, let's say your steel price is $1/lb so for a mid-size heavy duty box you're going to have say $300 or more worth of steel and you haven't done anything to make it useful yet.

Hardware: Ball Bearing Slides, Wheels, Locks, Handles will all have to be purchased from other vendors

Paint: Powdercoat system

Energy: Paid an electric or gas bill for a workshop lately?

I haven't come close to capturing all the costs--insurance, permits, financing, administrative expenses and on and on. I read somewhere that until you get to high volumes, a general rule of thumb is that $1 dollar in expense has to translate in $10 in revenue.

Custom costs money. For example, you can but a reasonable quality standard size bicycle frame made in China for around $100. A brand name standard size from Taiwan for $300-500. A basic custom frame from Japan or a U.S. builder starts at around $1000. That's for an item that has less than 10 pounds of materials and is a few tubes and bits carefully welded together. No exotic shapes or materials--aluminum or steel. Titanium and carbon fiber are 2-5x more expensive and a truly custom carbon fiber bike is prohibitively expensive because of the need for molds.

Good Luck and Keep thinking of good ideas. Visit the Thomas Edison museum for inspiration.

 

[mrholeshot]

Bottom line, short and sweet. Nobody is going to buy a box until you show us some skills.

You will also need to list what kind of roller bearing slide you intend to use, what casters and material and thickness. Until then you are pretty much wasting your breath. The market is there but nobody is going to buy based on your word. They need to see the construction and details of a real life example.

 

[eclou]

like others have suggested how about starting with a simple quality tool cart?

 

[onemoretry]

I am absolutely interested, but agree with all that has been said. I want to see some details and a basic idea of pricing before I waste your time or mine.

 

[Displaced Hokie]

Agree - you'll have to make it in China to be price competitive, and that's with already overpriced Snap On boxes. You won't have the economics of scale on your side.

 

[NJHandyGuy]

I respectfully disagree here i work for a place that does aluminum fabrication and they are profitable as hell current aluminum rate delivered is about $.85 a pound their cost and they are selling it around $1.15 lbs

i do agree it will be labor intensive but the market is definately there. Once he builds the first one would be the test to see where his skills lie.

 

[LEVE]

Not to rain on your parade... but I wouldn't touch one. Why? Warranty and parts. There's no guarantee that the company I bought from would be in business when I need parts, service or for a warranty claim.

IMHO, your best bet would be, develop a business plan, get some initial funding, fab up some prototypes, shop them around to venture capitalists, larger hardware/parts companies to see if you could pick up contracts, partnering or funding.

Good luck on the idea and project.

 

[UncleJoe]

I respectfully disagree here i work for a place that does aluminum fabrication and they are profitable as hell current aluminum rate delivered is about $.85 a pound their cost and they are selling it around $1.15 lbs

i do agree it will be labor intensive but the market is definately there. Once he builds the first one would be the test to see where his skills lie.

I see your point but I think you have to consider the rate your company pays for aluminum is based on volume purchasing. How much would a start up company pay if they only bought enough for one tool box.

A guy starting up would never be able to buy in bulk without a large capital investment.

Imagine if you were to build a car from scratch. Build your own motor from a block of steel, fabricate all the sheet metal from flat stock etc There is no way you could build one car for the price Detroit builds thousands. This is the economy of scale. The power to buy in bulk to reduce material costs. The small guy can not compete.

The companies that build tool chests have a huge costs savings advantage that a start up just would not have.

The OP could have fun doing it as a hobby but to break even he has to recover his cost.

 

[mrholeshot]

Here is my prototype. Build it and they will come. I've had at least 15 people wanting me to build them one (not as big as this one approx 72X25

 

[PT Doc]

Start with a tool cart and see what the cost comes out to be. Then we can see fit and finish. I think that most tool boxes are customizable and you can change out the drawers to make it work for you. I don't see a market for custom dimension boxes since you can buy what is available, say 42" next to a 72", and then put on the top of your choice. I don't think someone would pay more for your 114" box simply because out is 1 big box instead of 2. People add on over time and this allowd them to spread the cost out over time as well. Harbor freight has been around a while and they are likely not going anywhere and that gives people some security.

Give it a go and we can see what you make and give you feed back about cost and design. Keep in mind that hf pro toolcarts can be had for 160 most of the time. Good luck!

 

[Rickstir]

Freight charges would kill you.

 

[PT Doc]

Check this out:

http://www.strictlytoolboxes.com/montezuma-classic-72-custom-15-drawer-tool-cabinet.html

 

[flyingvette]

Awesome looking! But I wouldn't want to weld anything within 100 yards of that sucker.

Here is my prototype. Build it and they will come. I've had at least 15 people wanting me to build them one (not as big as this one approx 72X25

 

[JeremyManning]

I see alot of customization in terms of organization within the box, so drawers with built-in organizers would definitely be a bonus (such as wrench & plier racks, socket organizers and a drawer for small parts containment, eg drill bits, driver bits etc). There have been some good ideas in the fabrication section or the GJ and also if you do a search of GJ with organization.

 

[Case IH]

I have always though about this, I have a 5ft brke and a miller 140 welder and always wanted to try this....mbey you could put up some plans and or a playby play so we could see the quality or wor going into the box

 

[archirelic]

If you don't want to fabricate up an entire box, maybe you should simply put up some high quality photos of metal work you've done in the past, that way everyone has an idea of the quality and skills that will be put into the boxes. Then, design & fabricate a couple boxes afterward and see if your skills translate over to that arena.

 

[mrholeshot]

Awesome looking! But I wouldn't want to weld anything within 100 yards of that sucker.

It's not that easy to catch fire, lol That Oak is hard to get started burning but burns a long time.

 

[W650Mike]

Can you show some examples of other similar items you've fabricated?

 

[scott37300]

What gauge steel are most drawers made out of? What gauge are the shells of boxes?