garage door advice

[bobbyjean]

looking to replace a 9x6'6 garage door....want to go with carriage style...
got a few quote's ...one contractor calls for a 12 inch radius the other a 15 inch radius??? the door that's on now is 12 inch and has been ok
Also looking for any advice on brand's chi,wayne dalton,raynor...don't know garage doors but looking online i see that all look similar

 

[driftpin]

A couple years ago I got Clopay double skinned insulated single car bay doors, two of them, we are very satisfied. I also bought LiftMaster 8500 lifts. The doors are not hot to the touch inside the garage, and we live in hot, humid south Florida.

Here in South Florida we have the HVHZ rating: High Velocity Hurricane Zone which when we had these installed was I believe 149 miles an hour wind load rating and at the present time I believe that's actually higher. In any event I'm very happy with the performance of these Clopay insulated OH doors. Zero issues with the doors, they are good and tight, the outside seals prevent much in the way of outside air infiltration to the inside. The installer told me to lube the rollers twice a year. The rollers in the tracks are ball-bearings, so that's lube the ball bearings, the shafts and the tracks. Also the pivot points which attach each section of door to the adjoining section.

The Liftmaster 8500 jackshaft door lifts, we've had to replace the wall control units and one of the two remote operated lights. LiftMaster has provided replacements for those under warranty at no cost. The replacements solved any issues that we had. The door opener is quick and quiet.

The jackshaft Liftmaster 8500 ( we have the Elite) OH door lifts allow you to have unobstructed space in the middle of the doors. I used this space to my advantage to mount overhead lights in the space below the OH doors, but because I specified 'high-lift' door tracks, the doors give us more headroom than a typical installation, with the tracks barely-above the top door opening. The Liftmaster has a router function that allows you to monitor the doors over the internet. You can also operate them as-well.

I have four-foot LED shop lights from one side to the other, a two-car garage, about three feet on-center. Plenty of light even when the doors are open. The jackshaft drive of the Liftmaster and the high-lift door track made it possible. Here's a shot of just getting the below the OH door luminaires hung, two on one side, I added more hardware and lamps, and used wire brackets to properly-secure the cords. There is one in the middle, between the left and right doors. The amount of light I have now is great, plenty of light for working on vehicles, woodwork, or whatever, doors open or closed.

 

[wrenchguy]

work area inside?

 

[small&rusty]

I installed a 16x8 insulated Clopay in an uninsulated garage last summer it was fairly simple, and has served its purpose very well. When it comes to putting the doors in my garage I'll be going with either Clopay or Raynor.

 

[CombatNinja]

That 15" radius is a much better idea. 12" can be much more prone to binding if everything is not perfect. Even if it does not bind per se, it will be louder as the rollers will be touching the sides of the track more often. When paying a pro to install a garage door, the tracks are a financial drop in the bucket so don't worry about it.

 

[gnpenning]

As mentioned the larger the radius the smoother and quieter the door will be. Plus it will move your door higher out of your way and it will have less issues. One vendor may be quoting a 4 section the other a 5 section door. My competition only stock 10" radius doors to cut down on inventory and hoping to get more service work down the road. I would rather fit the door for the need. As easy to order the right thing as a regular stock door.


Never been a fan of doors sold through the box stores. Go to your local door companies and have them show you the doors they sale and the differences.

It was mentioned to lube your track. The track should never need to be lubed. Rollers should operate freely so no need to lube the track. Any lube used on a door should be a door specific or dry lube only. Door hinges should be lubed at the pivot. You will see black of gray on the door or hinges if you don't. Not sure what was ment to lube the shaft or where. The shaft rides on bearings and maybe a bushing in the middle that can be lubed.

A spring that is properly installed should never need lube.

Green hinges are for doors without track adjustments. A quality door allows you to adjust the track. On a new and Properly installed door and weatherstrip, green hinges are a waste of money. 10 ball bearing nylon rollers are quieter, easier to lube and last longer than vinyl rollers. But it's your money to spend as you please.

 

[Hot Rod Grampa]

Some carriage house style doors are only 3 panel. The engineers decided that they need 15" or larger radius or low headroom, not me as a dealer. Find a style you like from a local dealer. There are differences in quality between brands but they are minor. Like who makes the best truck. If you are heating or cooling the space go high R thermally broken. The extra cost initially will pay for itself. Avoid windows if possible. They all use insulated glass but cheap plastic frames.

 

[driftpin]

The manufacturers of Blaster, the garage door lube, say to include the tracks, and to include the moving parts among things you use the lube on. I understand the need to use a dry-lube on someplace like the tracks, to avoid having a dust-catching residue, especially in a place where there are common air-borne contaminants.

If someone doesn't want to lube metal-to-metal contact, that's their choice. Bushings typically aren't dry, if they are, because of the difference in hardness of the in-contact metals, the softer one will wear more-quickly. Lube will help to prolong the longevity of the softer metal.

Clopay says to lube the spring, but they do not mention the track.

 

[gnpenning]

Telling you to lube the track allows them to greatly increase the amount of product.you will use. Use more/buy more. Sure they will tell you to use it every where. The amount of difference in possible wear between rollers and track on two properly setup doors would be very difficult to measure, even after many years. This concept has many areas it would be true, but in this usage it's not a strong one worth arguing.

There are many more differences between a quality door and other manufacturers than R value. Even R value of the same piece of insulation gets different R ratings from different companies. Many manufacturers play very loose with the gauge of steel used. They even use a much lighter gauge both the inside and outside of the panels. How the end styles are attached along with the gauge of steel used make a huge difference in longevity of the door. Hinges, rollers, springs along with everything else that can be cut will be. If the only doors you have seen are the common ones that people bring up on the internet you will never see the differences. I'll let my competition put in the cheap stuff. I'll stick with the quality doors and loose out on the service calls because of poor products. I like my sleep.

 

[driftpin]

Since you are the installer, you have much-more experience than I do in this area. However, I am familiar with the design requirements, being a plans examiner and inspector. The person who is the P.E. who tests building materials for Miami-Dade County (FL) is an acquaintance of mine. The Miami-Dade County Product Approval is probably the most-strict standard in the country for the residential construction we're discussing here. I have seen the testing done for compliance with the Miami-Dade County Product Approval. It's impressive to see a full-scale building blown-apart by the hurricane force of the wind as-generated by the Florida International University (my alma mater) "Wall of Wind."

The test for penetration where a 2 x 4 is pneumatically-launched at the building product (50 ft/second, simulating a 110 mph storm) being tested is also impressive to watch. Here's Bob Vila touring the PGT Window factory where they make the High Velocity Hurricane Zone (HVHZ)-rated glass:

PGT Windows purchased CGI Windows, another HVHZ-rated window manufacturer in Florida. We looked at both PGT and CGI when we replaced all our windows, and chose CGI because of the thermal breaks and the extrusions were better in the CGI products. https://globenewswire.com/news-rele...tes-the-Acquisition-of-CGI-Windows-Doors.html

Of course, anyone living in Florida for any length of time is familiar what has happened historically from the hurricanes, and the damage that they can cause. If your garage door fails in a hurricane, you could face loss of the entire structure. The wind can literally explode the house, because once the garage door is breached, the wind trapped inside the house can cause older building systems securing windows, walls, rafters, roof sheathing, and waterproof roof coverings to fail. For instance, where toenailing for roof rafters used to be sufficient, then strapping on one side of the rafter, with the other end embedded in the tie beam concrete, now code calls-for an over-the-rafter strapping to be buried in the concrete, or affixed with specified fasteners to the tie beam.

Remember that the code is prescriptive and a minimum, you can spec something beyond that to have extra protection. Since your garage doors probably represent your largest 'hole' in the outer walls, it makes sense to have more protection there. Currently the HVHZ rating is the strongest residential standard. Look for it if you want the best level of protection for your garage opening. It's more resistant to being forced, too. The hinges, rollers, and track are all thicker-gauge and stronger designs for the HVHZ-rating. In reading the specs, I have seen that manufacturers often do meet the HVHZ standard using different gauges for the garage door panels, with the inside being thinner.

Telling you to lube the track allows them to greatly increase the amount of product.you will use. Use more/buy more. Sure they will tell you to use it every where. The amount of difference in possible wear between rollers and track on two properly setup doors would be very difficult to measure, even after many years. This concept has many areas it would be true, but in this usage it's not a strong one worth arguing.

There are many more differences between a quality door and other manufacturers than R value. Even R value of the same piece of insulation gets different R ratings from different companies. Many manufacturers play very loose with the gauge of steel used. They even use a much lighter gauge both the inside and outside of the panels. How the end styles are attached along with the gauge of steel used make a huge difference in longevity of the door. Hinges, rollers, springs along with everything else that can be cut will be. If the only doors you have seen are the common ones that people bring up on the internet you will never see the differences. I'll let my competition put in the cheap stuff. I'll stick with the quality doors and loose out on the service calls because of poor products. I like my sleep.

 

[gnpenning]

I've seen the same tests on This Old House. Plus fire and others online. The standard is there for a good reason as you mentioned. The problem isnt doors rated for that environment, it's the other places. Companies that say their door is a 24 ga door. The outside maybe 26 at best and the inside a step above tin foil. More than several companies are not honest with the ratings used, like other industries and get away with it. Anything to make a sale and increase profit, customer be damned.

 

[driftpin]

That is a disturbing and serious issue, if it's true. You would think that in this time of intense legal scrutiny that such behavior would be exposed in a court of law when their product fails.

I was taught to research the building's permit history when inspections were scheduled. look to see what was done, or wasn't done. Use of appropriately rated equipment, installed to the standard called-for, and maintained properly is 'compliance with code.' Doing otherwise leaves the property owner deficient in that.

It sounds like you need to be vigilant in getting what your design pays-for and that it's properly-installed.

I know that my acquaintance the professional engineer (P.E.) in the Miami-Dade County FL Building Dept. has the right to make a visit to the manufacturing plant of any building product which has gotten approval, to pull-out of the production line a product for testing for compliance with the appropriate code.

I've seen the same tests on This Old House. Plus fire and others online. The standard is there for a good reason as you mentioned. The problem isnt doors rated for that environment, it's the other places. Companies that say their door is a 24 ga door. The outside maybe 26 at best and the inside a step above tin foil. More than several companies are not honest with the ratings used, like other industries and get away with it. Anything to make a sale and increase profit, customer be damned.

 

[gnpenning]

This goes back to suggesting the OP to go to door dealers and look at the products from several manufacturers. Do this with as many dealers as you can, they will carry some of the same brands but one or two different brands. Ask for plus and minuses for each product.

 

[driftpin]

Yes, that is good advice to the OP, thank-you for your expertise, since this is your line of work, the points of observation are well-taken.

I can always learn and heed the well-considered advice from the trades to enhance my understanding of construction. When I was doing inspections (retired now) I always paid-attention to the various disciplines, and would ask questions later, of the other inspectors. That's how you learn. It's also how you defer to the subject matter expert, the 'authority having jurisdiction.' I answer questions in my area, and refer property owners' questions to the appropriate discipline. Sometimes, it requires research to answer, and I would give them a timeframe by-which they could expect to hear from me, and directed them to contact me if I didn't meet the timetable (usually not necessary).

This goes back to suggesting the OP to go to door dealers and look at the products from several manufacturers. Do this with as many dealers as you can, they will carry some of the same brands but one or two different brands. Ask for plus and minuses for each product.

 

[dfiler2]

(P.E.) in the Miami-Dade County FL Building Dept. has the right to make a visit to the manufacturing plant of any building product which has gotten approval, to pull-out of the production line a product for testing for compliance with the appropriate code.

Just wanted to make a comment, we manufacture products that are tested and listed, then certified by a federal agency. If a building inspector showed up and wanted to do that he wouldn't get past the front desk. Maybe things are different in Florida, or I'm not understanding the statement. I do agree with you that it is disturbing and I know if we were caught using material other than what was listed and advertised, there would be big problems.

 

[gnpenning]

To be clear I'm talking about normal production doors, not wind rated.