Garage Door- High Lift Conversion Help Needed

[project_x]

Hi All, I have a 8ft door in a 11 ft high garage... I wanted to raise the door to accommodate a 2 post lift.

It was a cheap Stanley uninsulated steel door with a single spring.

I got track and bracket, large capacity drums, longer cables, and two 225 springs...

Track moved and modified to go about 21" higher. The door moves smoothly on the track.
Drums and torsion springs replaced.
Cables installed.

I wound the torsion springs to 30 turns each.
When I removed the rods...the door went up 3ft....



the first two feet is seems to run fine.... but after that it is impossible to raise without a lot of work....

I am clearly missing something.....

Any thoughts?


Disclaimer: I have experience with wind bars, torsion springs and adjusting the safely.

 

[pattenp]

Not enough info. What's the door weight? What is the exact drum style you have, are they stepped? How did you determine the spring size to get. Just based on your description of how the door is doing makes me think drums and springs are mismatched.

 

[Uncle murph]

Hi All, I have a 7ft door in a 10 ft high garage... I wanted to raise the door to accommodate a 2 post lift.

It was a cheap Stanley uninsulated steel door with a single spring.

I got track and bracket, large capacity drums, longer cables, and two 225 springs...

Track moved and modified to go about 21" higher. The door moves smoothly on the track.
Drums and torsion springs replaced.
Cables installed.

I wound the torsion springs to 30 turns each.
When I removed the rods...the door went up 3ft....

I adjusted the cables to be closer to the floor....

the first two feet is seems to run fine.... but after that it is impossible to raise without a lot of work....

I am clearly missing something.....

Any thoughts?


Disclaimer: I have experience with wind bars, torsion springs and adjusting the safely.

If I understand correctly what you have changed,you should have wound the spring 38 times.

 

[Jogyver62]

I have a gable roof that’s parallel to my garage door opening. I redesigned the garage door tracks and add 600# springs. The garage door follows the roof now. I did add one post to support the loft for storage

 

[firebirdparts]

Hi All, I have a 7ft door in a 10 ft high garage... I wanted to raise the door to accommodate a 2 post lift.

It was a cheap Stanley uninsulated steel door with a single spring.

I got track and bracket, large capacity drums, longer cables, and two 225 springs...

Track moved and modified to go about 21" higher. The door moves smoothly on the track.
Drums and torsion springs replaced.
Cables installed.

I wound the torsion springs to 30 turns each.
When I removed the rods...the door went up 3ft....

I adjusted the cables to be closer to the floor....

the first two feet is seems to run fine.... but after that it is impossible to raise without a lot of work....

I am clearly missing something.....

Any thoughts?

In normal doors, the door goes from 100% weight on the springs to basically zero linearly from closed to open. Spring force is linear with movement. This requires a basic constant diameter drum to work. They use a special shape drum to modify this math for a high lift door, but you only get one format for that. You can’t just buy a drum for every set of tracks.

What you are describing is a high lift door with regular drums.

 

[jstroede]

Hi All, I have a 7ft door in a 10 ft high garage... I wanted to raise the door to accommodate a 2 post lift.

It was a cheap Stanley uninsulated steel door with a single spring.

I got track and bracket, large capacity drums, longer cables, and two 225 springs...

Track moved and modified to go about 21" higher. The door moves smoothly on the track.
Drums and torsion springs replaced.
Cables installed.

I wound the torsion springs to 30 turns each.
When I removed the rods...the door went up 3ft....

I adjusted the cables to be closer to the floor....

the first two feet is seems to run fine.... but after that it is impossible to raise without a lot of work....

I am clearly missing something.....

Any thoughts?


Disclaimer: I have experience with wind bars, torsion springs and adjusting the safely.

Need to know exactly what all parts you have. What you have said indicates too much spring and not enough turns.

Need exact spring size
Cable length
Drum size (400-54?)

When you say you adjusted the cables to be closer to the floor, what does that mean?

Also, what overall size and model is the door?

John

 

[project_x]

Need to know exactly what all parts you have. What you have said indicates too much spring and not enough turns.

Need exact spring size
Cable length
Drum size (400-54?)

When you say you adjusted the cables to be closer to the floor, what does that mean?

Also, what overall size and model is the door?

John

Spring is here, and I am back on this. Sorry for the delay, for some reason I didn't get any notifications of responses.

I have an 9ftx8ft door, stanley, steel weighs 100lbs
I have two 400-54 drums, cable length is 11ft 4".
I have raised the track 21" from where it was previously.
15" radius
I have two 2" 225 springs 2" diameter 30"long (I got them for free and would change them out if needed...)

 

[Boatman62]

In normal doors, the door goes from 100% weight on the springs to basically zero linearly from closed to open. Spring force is linear with movement. This requires a basic constant diameter drum to work. They use a special shape drum to modify this math for a high lift door, but you only get one format for that. You can’t just buy a drum for every set of tracks.

What you are describing is a high lift door with regular drums.

This is interesting. I had a high lift door installed a few years ago along with a couple regular lift doors. The high lift does exactly what the OP describes. I questioned the installer and got " just the nature of the beast". It has the same drums as the other doors.

 

[racecougar]

This is interesting. I had a high lift door installed a few years ago along with a couple regular lift doors. The high lift does exactly what the OP describes. I questioned the installer and got " just the nature of the beast". It has the same drums as the other doors.

Sounds like you do not have the correct drums in place for a high clearance/lift door then. The typical "high lift" arrangement will have drums that look like these:

 

[jmdirk]

Spring is here, and I am back on this. Sorry for the delay, for some reason I didn't get any notifications of responses.

I have an 9ftx8ft door, stanley, steel weighs 100lbs
I have two 400-54 drums, cable length is 11ft 4".
I have raised the track 21" from where it was previously.
15" radius
I have two 2" 225 springs 2" diameter 30"long (I got them for free and would change them out if needed...)

How many wraps of cable on the drum in the closed position?

Still not sure what you mean when you said that you adjusted the cables to be closer to the floor?

But initially, door opened automatically, which means too much tension/too much spring.

After your adjustment, opens fine at first and as you lose tension, door gets hard to open. Which sounds like your not in the high lift portion of the drum anymore and maybe have too much cable on your drums? Sounds like your cables might be too long?

 

[AndyL]

Spring is here, and I am back on this. Sorry for the delay, for some reason I didn't get any notifications of responses.

I have an 9ftx8ft door, stanley, steel weighs 100lbs
I have two 400-54 drums, cable length is 11ft 4".
I have raised the track 21" from where it was previously.
15" radius
I have two 2" 225 springs 2" diameter 30"long (I got them for free and would change them out if needed...)

Normally I'd say you're nuts mixing and matching random parts...

Single spring 218x2x28.75 appears to work.

225 - you'd need 33" also single spring.

Use the cable length formula for whatever drum you're using, it's not a guessing scenario - it's floor to shaft measurement, and some basic math.

 

[project_x]

How many wraps of cable on the drum in the closed position?

Still not sure what you mean when you said that you adjusted the cables to be closer to the floor?

But initially, door opened automatically, which means too much tension/too much spring.

After your adjustment, opens fine at first and as you lose tension, door gets hard to open. Which sounds like your not in the high lift portion of the drum anymore and maybe have too much cable on your drums? Sounds like your cables might be too long?

I have 1/2 wrap.
I don't recall what I meant by adjusting.... to be closer to the floor... I will remove it from the original post

 

[project_x]

Normally I'd say you're nuts mixing and matching random parts...

Single spring 218x2x28.75 appears to work.

225 - you'd need 33" also single spring.

Use the cable length formula for whatever drum you're using, it's not a guessing scenario - it's floor to shaft measurement, and some basic math.

Thanks Andy.
Where does one find these calculations? I have a 400-54 drum, 8ft door, 21" lift what should the cable length be?

 

[AndyL]

Floor ->shaft center +63"-highlift is the canimex 400-54 book calculation; you'd need to put a tape measure on yours, verify if your drums are equivalent and do the math.

Note you're using "turns" in a different format than I am - I'm assuming you mean 1/4s, as you'd never get 38 turns on that spring, but 38 quarters makes sense.

 

[project_x]

Floor ->shaft center +63"-highlift is the canimex 400-54 book calculation; you'd need to put a tape measure on yours, verify if your drums are equivalent and do the math.

Note you're using "turns" in a different format than I am - I'm assuming you mean 1/4s, as you'd never get 38 turns on that spring, but 38 quarters makes sense.

I meant quarter turns...
My shaft center is 129.5" so my cable should be 129.5"+63"-21"( highlift)=171.5" (I have 400-54 drums)

Now with my 100lb door, what is the ideal spring or springs to install?

 

[firebirdparts]

That's a harder question. You should easily be able to figure out, now, with it all assembled, just exactly how many turns the shaft makes during door movement, and what the radius of the drum is when the door is closed (it should be on the variable radius part). So you'll want spring(s) having torque just right to offset the door weight with about that many turns. So none of us here is quite willing to figure out how many turns you'll have and the radius, but you can observe that.

 

[p00p]

Sounds like you do not have the correct drums in place for a high clearance/lift door then. The typical "high lift" arrangement will have drums that look like these:

Where can these be bought online to the general public without buying an entire kit? I'm assuming these type of drums are left & right specific?

 

[racecougar]

Where can these be bought online to the general public without buying an entire kit? I'm assuming these type of drums are left & right specific?

A quick Google search turns up a bunch of retailers that will sell you the drums separately:

 

[p00p]

A quick Google search turns up a bunch of retailers that will sell you the drums separately:

I wasn't so sure if I'd run into a road block like I have in the past (& current) for other garage door parts a la carte'. IE: High Lift track parts & replacement springs. Note* I was successful procuring the springs & am still looking for the unique IIRC 45 degree tracking where the door rolls thru the bend.

 

[racecougar]

I wasn't so sure if I'd run into a road block like I have in the past (& current) for other garage door parts a la carte'. IE: High Lift track parts & replacement springs. Note* I was successful procuring the springs & am still looking for the unique IIRC 45 degree tracking where the door rolls thru the bend.

What portion of track are you referring to?

 

[jstroede]

That's a harder question. You should easily be able to figure out, now, with it all assembled, just exactly how many turns the shaft makes during door movement, and what the radius of the drum is when the door is closed (it should be on the variable radius part). So you'll want spring(s) having torque just right to offset the door weight with about that many turns. So none of us here is quite willing to figure out how many turns you'll have and the radius, but you can observe that.

Turns on the spring and turns the shaft make are two different things. Your springs will always have more turns than your shaft makes to operate the door.

AndyL listed the springs in a reply above.

John

 

[jstroede]

I wasn't so sure if I'd run into a road block like I have in the past (& current) for other garage door parts a la carte'. IE: High Lift track parts & replacement springs. Note* I was successful procuring the springs & am still looking for the unique IIRC 45 degree tracking where the door rolls thru the bend.

Yes what are you looking for exactly? are you trying to make a roof pitch? If so, you just cut material out of the radius.

John