Garage door opener

[larryv]

I hate this garage door opener setup has anyone used the motor on the upper side of the garage door? Can the side mount openers be used with any garage doors? This picture is from a unfinished garage and mine will be the same Thanks guys.

 

[ghnl]

My understanding is the side mounted GDO work with the torsion spring - the horizontal piece above the door. But not with extension springs - the long springs found above each track.

 

[GTO]

Google Liftmaster 3800

And while you're at it,get a new 2' high lift track on that door.

 

[larryv]

Liftmaster 3800 i will check it out. GTO, what is the 2ft high lift track? The setup in the picture looks horrible. Thanks

 

[ghnl]

High lift tracks move the open door closer to the ceiling.

 

[larryv]

ghnl, that for sure would look better. I will contact Liftmaster for the 3800 install. Thanks again.

 

[b737mechanic]

Here is a picture of a high lift door track and liftmaster 3800 , my 8 foot door opens within a foot of my 12 foot ceiling.

 

[Full Size 66]

Liftmaster looks sweet. Are they any quieter than the conventional style in the first picture?

 

[JCByrd24]

Yes they tend to be quieter.

 

[nadogail]

The side mount door openers work very well with Roll-Up doors.

 

[gcan]

to **** into this thread, but I have a question, I can't afford to change the openers but would like to lift the door if possible.......can the track extension be used on a standard liftmaster opener?

 

[GTO]

to **** into this thread, but I have a question, I can't afford to change the openers but would like to lift the door if possible.......can the track extension be used on a standard liftmaster opener?

I don't see why not.You'll have to re mount the garage door opener.

I currently have a Liftmaster 3800 with a 2' high lift,so you may want to wait until someone with a conventional door opener comments.

 

[nova65ss]

to **** into this thread, but I have a question, I can't afford to change the openers but would like to lift the door if possible.......can the track extension be used on a standard liftmaster opener?

Yes you can you will need to raise it up and make the arm that attaches to the door longer. Keep in mind you need more than the track extension. The springs, cables, and cable drums will also need to be replaced.

 

[cobrar97]

to **** into this thread, but I have a question, I can't afford to change the openers but would like to lift the door if possible.......can the track extension be used on a standard liftmaster opener?

You cannot use a conventional "trolley" style opener with high-lift track of more than 3". With high-lift track, the door goes up the wall and then breaks over and goes back. A conventional opener pulls rearward only. If you simply put on high-lift track, raised the opener up, and put a longer opener arm on...when you press the button the opener is going to go back and just bent the top section since it can't pull the door up first.

NOW...instead of getting high-lift track...you can get a track RADIUS that is greater, and that will get the door up against the ceiliing also. Most door companies offer 12" and 15" radius tracks as standard. Most doors are one of these. You can also get 24" and 32" radius which will take the door that much higher above the door opening. Since it's a radius track (that arcs up) and not a high-lift (that goes straight up the wall), a conventioal opener will work.
BUT you must extend you convential opener RAIL and OPENER ARM for it to have enough travel to get the door up the entire way. Liftmaster conventioal openers, and most others, offer 7', 8', 10', and 12' rails. Usually the 10' rail will work on the extended radius tracks.

I will say though, the Liftmaster 3800 and 3900 RJO openers are AWSOME and get all that overhead stuff out of the way.

Hope this helps.

 

[larryv]

b737mechanic. thanks for the picture. Will the Liftmaster 3800 work on the garage door shot that i posted? Does the wall remote switch for the openers need to be wired to the unit? This a new built garage and I am having the electrical plugs installed right next to the 3800. What else do you suggest for a clean look. Thanks for your help.

 

[ghnl]

Does the wall remote switch for the openers need to be wired to the unit? This a new built garage and I am having the electrical plugs installed right next to the 3800. What else do you suggest for a clean look.

You can get wired or wireless remotes. I suspect the wired are less expensive (I haven't checked prices - just assuming). If you want a remote switch any distance away from the garge door opener (say at an entrance door into the garage that is far away from the garage doors) then run some light gauge wire (I believe it is called 'bell wire') from the location of the garage door opener to where you'll want the remote switch. Or investigate the cost of a wireless remote.

The picture is post #1 shows a torsion spring above the door. That is exactly the type of system the wall mounted door opener works with.

 

[cobrar97]

There's actually a wireless wall control now available. Part number 378LM. Just like a wall control...just battery operated for no-wires. It's meant to be a secondary button, but it could be used otherwise.

 

[Question]

Here's my set-up for 10'4" ceilings, with torsion bar springs the lift doesn't have to be in the center, I put both on the inside edges. As you can see in the second pic you have to extend the trolley pull and you need the extra long track to get it up to the ceiling..

 

[nova65ss]

You cannot use a conventional "trolley" style opener with high-lift track of more than 3". With high-lift track, the door goes up the wall and then breaks over and goes back. A conventional opener pulls rearward only. If you simply put on high-lift track, raised the opener up, and put a longer opener arm on...when you press the button the opener is going to go back and just bent the top section since it can't pull the door up first.

NOW...instead of getting high-lift track...you can get a track RADIUS that is greater, and that will get the door up against the ceiliing also. Most door companies offer 12" and 15" radius tracks as standard. Most doors are one of these. You can also get 24" and 32" radius which will take the door that much higher above the door opening. Since it's a radius track (that arcs up) and not a high-lift (that goes straight up the wall), a conventioal opener will work.
BUT you must extend you convential opener RAIL and OPENER ARM for it to have enough travel to get the door up the entire way. Liftmaster conventioal openers, and most others, offer 7', 8', 10', and 12' rails. Usually the 10' rail will work on the extended radius tracks.

I will say though, the Liftmaster 3800 and 3900 RJO openers are AWSOME and get all that overhead stuff out of the way.

Hope this helps.

A standard opener will work with more than three feet of high lift if the door is properly balanced. It would be better on more than 3 feet to add a dummy section to the top of the door. Nowadays with the 3800 you are better off going with it because the extra cost difference for the opener far outweighs the cost of adding another section.

You can also use the same size rail no need to go to a longer rail when adding high lift tracks and 32 radius. Even though the door is going higher and the arm is longer the door is still traveling the same distance as it did before. If the arm is setup right and mounted in the correct spot it will still go all the way up.

 

[Matra]

I use the Wayne Dalton Idrive "torsion spring" model
http://www.wayne-dalton.com/DirectDrive.asp
And you can pick it up at Lowes if you have one of those nearby! Nice and quiet. THe door itself becomes the loud part.

 

[cobrar97]

A standard opener will work with more than three feet of high lift if the door is properly balanced. It would be better on more than 3 feet to add a dummy section to the top of the door. Nowadays with the 3800 you are better off going with it because the extra cost difference for the opener far outweighs the cost of adding another section.

You can also use the same size rail no need to go to a longer rail when adding high lift tracks and 32 radius. Even though the door is going higher and the arm is longer the door is still traveling the same distance as it did before. If the arm is setup right and mounted in the correct spot it will still go all the way up.

Nova65SS...You are incorrect. A conventional opener will absolutely NOT work with any high-lift track over 3-inches. That's right...3 INCHES. A conventional trolley cannot pull the door UP as required by high-lift track. A conventional opener will only work with RADIUS track...and the amount of radius can be any amount.

The pictures above is NOT high-lift...it is a large radius, yet still a normal lift. Thus why a regluar opener can be used AND the door is up against the ceiling.

The only type of opener that can be used on high-lift is a jackshaft style such as the 3800 mentioned before. Now, the 3800 can also be used on any type of track to get rid of the opener junk on the ceiling.

 

[larryv]

cobrar97, this is GREAT INFO! You guys answered all my questions. This forum is No 1 in my book. Oh! by the way when I purchase these (2) 3800's, is everything in the box that is needed for the installer? I will go with the optional battery operated wall remote. Any suggestion on where to purchase these? Thank guys...

 

[cobrar97]

Actually...the cheapest I've seen them is on Ebay. I'm a garage door/opener dealer, and we buy them for the same price they're selling on ebay...shipped. You could check some local Liftmaster dealers...but ebay might still the the best deal.

Here's $295 shipped

 

[heffneil]

How many HP is that motor? Is there a commercial version of this? The Wayne Dalton posted earlier just looks a lot smaller. I like this type of garage door opener. I am thinking when I build my garage of having most of the door run straight up and curve only a little across the ceiling. Is this the best opener for that situation?

Thanks!

Neil

 

[cobrar97]

The Liftmaster 3800 uses a DC motor so it can be variable speed. DC motors are not rated in HP...but the Liftmaster has made it's "power" as close to 1/2hp as possible. There is a commercial version; the 3900, but it's not different except the wall control. They are both considered light-duty. Light-duty is more than enough for a residential garage door.

Above that, there is the Liftmaster Model MJ (medium duty), the J (heavy duty) and the GH (industrial duty). ALL of these units are all-out commercial units, are much larger/heavier in size, VERY expensive in comparison, and do not have the easy to program electronics and wide variety of accessories. SO...I doubt these are what anyone would want in their garage at home.

The 3800 is good for doors up to 18' wide, 14' tall, or 180 square foot. Cannot exceed any one of these conditions, even if the others are met.

Given that you have the room, AND you are using this opener, I would go for the high-lift track with a 15" radius horizontal track. If you are buying from a garage door dealer, just tell them your door size...your measurement from floor to lowest obstruction (usually ceiling, rafters, or lights), and tell them you want high lift track up to the ceiling using 15" radius horizontals.

Let me know if you have additional questions.

 

[larryv]

cobrar97. you are my HERO! I will go and check on the new home build tommorow. I have the electrical outlets next to the liftmaster motors but will need for them to install the two wires from the 3800 motor area to the laundry door for the wall mount correct? I just want everything wired for the installer while the electricans are still there. Anything else i should know? The sheetrock goes up Tues. Thanks again

 

[cobrar97]

larryv - You need an electric outlet on the ceiling or wall up front where the 3800 will mount. If you get this done now, it will look like the garage was made for these openers. If you have current outlets on the ceiling for overhead openers...that's cool because the light fixtures for the 3800 opener will go on those outlets. The light will cover the outlets and it'll look like a wireless light install. It'll be very nice.

As far other wiring...you only need wiring in the walls for photo-eyes and wall controls. The wires for these items are low-votage wires often called bell-wire. It's pretty small stuff. You will need 3 pairs of wire. The first pair will run from the where the motor would be staight down to the bottom of the door and pop out of the wall for a photo-eye. Leave extra and the installer can cut as needed. The second pair will go from the motor across the header and down the other side of the door for the other photo-eye. The third pair would go from the motor to wherever you want the wall control and pop of out of the wall there. That's about it.

Does that make sense ok? If I missed something, tell me.

This might help too:
3800 Manual

 

[larryv]

This is exactly what I needed to know. I had 1 outlet installed between the the garage doors and I will plug in the (2) 3800 motors there. I have a plug on top for the light. I will have them drop wires for the photo-eyes and up top and across the to the laundry door for easy access. By the way this is for a 3 car garage so I take it that I will have two wall controls or can I program 2 motors run off of one? Again, thank you for the Info.

 

[nova65ss]

Nova65SS...You are incorrect. A conventional opener will absolutely NOT work with any high-lift track over 3-inches. That's right...3 INCHES. A conventional trolley cannot pull the door UP as required by high-lift track. A conventional opener will only work with RADIUS track...and the amount of radius can be any amount.

The pictures above is NOT high-lift...it is a large radius, yet still a normal lift. Thus why a regluar opener can be used AND the door is up against the ceiling.

The only type of opener that can be used on high-lift is a jackshaft style such as the 3800 mentioned before. Now, the 3800 can also be used on any type of track to get rid of the opener junk on the ceiling.

I guess I better go take down the hundreds of doors that I have installed with high high lift and a standard drawbar motor. I have been in the door business for twelve years and have no idea where you came up with that 3" number??? Anyway,

 

[Shoeboy23]

i have an idrive...I love it! it's quiet and powerful.

here is a link. mine came from Lowe's

http://www.wayne-dalton.com/DirectDrive.asp

good luck,

Aaron...Shoeboy"."

 

[cobrar97]

NOVA65SS - If you can show me a video of just one high-lift door with a trolley opener, I'll eat my words and give you a ton of love.

Common physics says it cannot be done. If a conventional opener could lift a high-lift door, then there would be no reason to make the multitude of jackshaft/hoist openers out there.

 

[Schtauffer]

32" radius track = 24" actual highlift

 

[cobrar97]

32" radius track = 24" actual highlift

That is correct...but it's technically not highlift. 32" radius, although puts the door higher from the floor when in the horizontal track, is still considered normal lift track.

High-lift "technically" is only when the door travels straight up the wall in a vertical extension track (which is called the highlift adder) that then goes into a radius track.

For example, if you order a garage door with 24" of HIGHLIFT, you are going to get a track setup totally different from a door ordered with 32" radius track (giving you an additional 24" of inside door clearance from the floor). A conventional opener installed on the HIGHLIFT will not work (a 3800 or similar opener is needed). On 32" radius, a conventioal opener will still work.

And now the discussion is just getting technical among door people. I doubt any of this makes any difference to the guy who's decided to go by the 3800 openers...but it's good knowledge for someone decide on new doors and trying to get it closer to the ceiling.

 

[Daves75]

I would be interested in a drawbar on a high lift door (video) over 24", this is where the industry starts commercial high lift. Yes there is many under, but this is the common starting point.
You can use a drawbar, on a highlift with greater then 24" using a dummy top section. Cobra is right, the drawbar on the pushing of the button, pull's any top section back into the garage, this includes standard lift doors. the top section follows the natural arch of the track radius via the top roller carriers. This is why 24 & 32" radius track will work with a drawbar.

Back to the 3800, these are nice and have there own limitations as well. Cobra listed the basics above. They will not work on Low headroon apllications, and side room can become an issue as well.

 

[cobrar97]

You can use a drawbar, on a highlift with greater then 24" using a dummy top section.
Back to the 3800, these are nice and have there own limitations as well. Cobra listed the basics above. They will not work on Low headroon apllications, and side room can become an issue as well.

Yea, the dummy section is always an option, but I think it looks like **** from the inside, and it make the door cost more. Especially when the 3800, or other variations of opener, are available.

For anyone considering the 3800 opener, I believe the sideroom requirement is around 8". You'd want to check the manual or website to be sure if you are close to this. There's a gear kit available for it for doors that are low-headroom, but I have not seen one installed like this...so I don't know if it works or how well. Like Dave said, it's best to keep away from the 3800 if you have low-headroom. If you have low-headroom anyhow, you really have no reason to want a side-mount opener anyhow.

 

[nova65ss]

I provided Bmwpower with the stuff to add about 3' of high lift to his garage doors. He is and has been using a standard craftsman opener for a couple of years now. Maybe he can put some pics up.

I see where you guys are coming from but when the opener pulls the door it just follows the track right on up. We have been doing this for years and have never had a problem. Usually anything over 2' we add a dummy section. Back before the 3800's were available it was the only option as commercial motors just will not fly in a residential application.

Just trying to help out the guy that asked not trying to argue. I can assure you that a standard opener will work without issue on a high lift garage door.

 

[ghnl]

Good discussion about high lift tracks vs large radius tracks.

Question for the garage door installers - is there a big difference in price between the two? I specified (and was charged for) 'high lift' garage door tracks for our garage remodel. What has been installed are large radius tracks. They do get the door up to approximately 12"-14" of the ceiling (11' 6" high) with 8' high doors. I wonder if 'high lift' tracks would be superior?

 

[larryv]

Hey Guys! No matter what, you both have givin some great info here. Take care.

 

[gcan]

Great info here and if I understand it correctly I can get my liftmaster closer to the ceiling by adding radial track> can you recommend where I can get the track I would need?

 

[cobrar97]

Most door dealers can get large radius track...any door dealer can get high-lift. If you have a door dealer that carries CHI brand doors; CHI has 10", 12", 15", 20", and 32" radius tracks. Most manufacturers have 12", 15", and 32" now days. Maybe others can offer manufacturers with other options too.

In general, the larger the radius of track, the smoother the door rolls up/down. Many door dealers that have "stock" doors will stock 12" radius and install it of whatever job they sell (every if a greater radius would have fit). In my opinion, 15" radius rolls much smoother than 12", but 12" fits in alot more residential applications. 10" is pretty tight for me.

With high-lift track, you go up the wall, but still can choose a radius for the horizontals. Most places go up the wall as needed and then use standard 12" or 15" radius horizontals.
Given the choice of high-lift versus a large radius track such as 20" or 32"...assuming I get the door to the ceiling with both applications, I'd probably go with the large radius track...again...because I think the door rolls smoother. And because I have more opener options. Now, this is my personal preference and logic. Maybe others would rather do the high-lift and will post why.

Currently, I'm working on my own garage and will be putting in a new garage door. From the top of my garage opening to the ceiling, I have 22". By the book, 32" radius track will take me up to 24", which is slightly too high. 20" radius will still be a little low for my liking. Nice this about high-lift setup is that I can get EXACTLY what I need and put that door just where I want it. Now, can the 32" radius be made to fit...maybe??? I might just give it a try to see.