Garage doors on both ends?

[paredown]

Can't think of a good way to describe this, but we have what was once an attached garage--flat roof to match the wing of the house.

It was original to the area, and a new road was put in at what was the back of the house, and as a condition of development, they had to "join" the new street. So they went rudimentary--they sawed the back out of the garage, so you had to walk through the garage to get to the front door.

We have now added a front door, and I wanted to add a garage door at the new front so the garage is useable so I can move the tools & **** out of the house.

I'm trying to figure out if you can install the OH track so that it meets in the middle--which if you did would entail using an opener like the Dalton I-Drive on the header, or (if there is room) a sidemount style opener for each door.

I looked at these threads: garage 1; garage 2
but neither were as space constrained as I will be.

I have 10w x 8h openings and the overall depth to work with is only 20 feet. The existing door track bridges the center bay of the ceiling joists so I'm assuming I really would have to run the track so it met in the middle.

I'm also trying to preserve the look of the house, so I would not want to use a roll-up door.

Anyone seen such an installation or have thoughts about whether it is possible?

(Edit to add--going through the garage is the only way to access the rest of the property)

 

[FJ 432]

I think anything possible but you're going to have to find a creative garage door company to help you solve your problem.

I made my back door a 6 foot garage door that shoots straight up ( I have a 14foot ceiling). I just had to find the right person who thought out of the box. Most just want a standard door but their are a lot of restaurants and such that are using creative ways to open up a wall with a glass door to give an open air experience.

Good luck.

 

[paredown]

Thanks!

Got a call in with a well-recommended installer from a neighbor who is a construction supervisor for high-end houses.

I was looking at the install instructions for the openers (belt style Liftmasters) and it looks as if they have a fixed setback from the torsion bar for the belt support, and I don't think I would have enough room in the center for two.

Of course, the install sheet does not actually provide the measurement I most need, so I will probably have to go down to the storage unit and open the darned box and measure myself.

 

[AndyL]

A 7' opener will typically run 10'6" total length... 8' add a foot. Head configurations vary that was a 3265 on a dealer rail, one of the longer units... some of the chamberlains might be shorter (light covers on the sides, not front and back). But you cant cut a retail rail like you can a dealer rail....

Now there are ways to fudge that, got a dimensioned drawing? Last time I went back to back, in tight confines, I offset each opener 12" off centerline, ran a high angle so the back of the openers was clearing beneath the opposite door...

 

[Schtauffer]

A horizontal track for an 8' high door is about 9'6" long. You can fit two 8' high doors in a 20 foot space. Your best option for an opener will be a Liftmaster 3800.

Second best would be to mount trolley style openers offset-- this will work fine if you have torsion springs, but if you have extension springs the opener will push the door crooked. If you offset hang both openers and end up with the motor heads beside each other, it should work. An opener for an 8' high will be 11'4" to 11'8" long.

 

[paredown]

Finally got organized and had the installer out to take a look at my situation.

The existing door is 10' 3" x 8 ', so non-standard. They also used low head room track, but weirdly then did not use the upper rail for the top guide roller. I'll try to take a picture to post, since the installer said that in 40 years in the business, he'd never seen the like.

Because of the low headroom track, I can't use the 3800 (if I understand what I've read here and what the installer told me).

I would also have difficulty using a trolley-style opener because of the lack of headroom--if I understand the requirements correctly.

And to make matters worse, the 20' I quoted is the size of the concrete pad, so by the time you reduce it by the thickness of the walls, I don't have room to offset the two trolley openers for 8' doors, even if I did have the height.

Screwed blued and tattooed.

His best suggestion--if I want openers, I should look for 10' x 7' 6" doors, use a drop down fill piece below the existing header to close the gap. I would then have the choice of using the 3800 (he thinks the side clearance is enough), or if the measurements give for track length are linear, their might be just enough space to squeeze in the two trolley style openers offset as AndyL and Schtauffer suggested.

I'll see if I can come up with more exact measurements/drawing.

 

[timewarp]

If you have enough height us regular track on the new door and leave the low head room track on the existing door, then one will be over the other, as long as there is room for the trolly track above the existing door for it's opener, then use a 3800 on the new door.

 

[paredown]

Yeah, not enough height for that.

 

[paredown]

I'll do one more check on my measurements tomorrow, but it looks like I will be reframing the two openings to match for two 10' x 8' doors that I purchased used, and then have the installer use a low profile kit on both. If I am measuring correctly, there will be just under 9" of headroom when the ceiling is finished.

And then leave the doors as an "armstrong" manual system for now since I'm sure that there is no way to fit trolly style openers in the center, even offset. The ones I have (Liftmaster Screw drives) are ~135" long.

He'll have to get creative in the center if my measurements are correct, but maybe he can use a single angle and bolt the sections of track together in the middle.

I'll pull wire for a center outlet, and for two end outlets and then...

Rev. B--if and when there is more money, we can redo with new 10 x 7' 6" doors and add the 3800 jackshaft openers on each end.

 

[Jeanne95]

I would also have difficulty using a trolley-style opener because of the lack of headroom--if I understand the requirements correctly.

 

[LutzTD]

what about a one pice trackless door not sure if it would work with your height but maybe for one side?

http://www.bearcatco.com/helpgifs2/doortype.html

 

[jstroede]

If the dimensions are as you say, I don't see the big problem. 8' high track should hang when measured from the wall back to the back at about 9'6". Multiply that times two and you get 19'. However, you can take up to 1 ft off of each track if needed. For the openers, you can get a trolley type opener in with a torsion spring and LHR track in 10" of headroom. 10' door will usually have two center stile locations that are off-center. You can mount each opener off center so that the heads are basically side by side. It does not have to be mounted directly in the center.

John

 

[paredown]

If the dimensions are as you say, I don't see the big problem. 8' high track should hang when measured from the wall back to the back at about 9'6". Multiply that times two and you get 19'. However, you can take up to 1 ft off of each track if needed. For the openers, you can get a trolley type opener in with a torsion spring and LHR track in 10" of headroom. 10' door will usually have two center stile locations that are off-center. You can mount each opener off center so that the heads are basically side by side. It does not have to be mounted directly in the center.

John

I have to ask the idiot's question--will the door when open hang below the opener, even if the head room is less than 10"? (This seems critical, since the screw drive openers I have look like they need the full length rail which looks to be 135 inches. I understand the offset.

What happens if you are using the LHR track? Wouldn't the top roller running in the LHR track be hitting the motor install?

I see these special hinge kits also for LHR installations--are they meant to be an alternative to the LHR track and just help the door make the transition to flat faster? If so, might they work to keep the open door below the opener?

 

[AndyL]

There's a bunch of different options when it comes to lowheadroom, every manufacturer has differing versions... Note the headroom listed almost never includes the opener - depends on rail size and mounting options. So whatever your door headroom is - you do have to allow for the opener...

Special hinge kits? Got a link? I can only assume you're talking what we call rapid-flex or sleds... http://www.garagedoorpartssupply.com/top-roller-carrier.html They have their applications, I personally dislike them... But they have moments where they're handy...

This might be worth looking into as well - http://miracleinstrument.goods.officelive.com/Documents/miracle brochure no price rev1.pdf - not a big fan, I know of a garage where one has been used (it's got a good 5-6 years on it now), there have been versions of these things going back into the 70s, this is the only non defunct version I know of...

 

[upndown]

I like how they use a picture of the miracle being installed on an extension spring door, Ya Right!!

 

[jstroede]

I have to ask the idiot's question--will the door when open hang below the opener, even if the head room is less than 10"? (This seems critical, since the screw drive openers I have look like they need the full length rail which looks to be 135 inches. I understand the offset.

What happens if you are using the LHR track? Wouldn't the top roller running in the LHR track be hitting the motor install?

I see these special hinge kits also for LHR installations--are they meant to be an alternative to the LHR track and just help the door make the transition to flat faster? If so, might they work to keep the open door below the opener?

The door always hangs under the opener rail. In a setup such as I suggested, the opener mounts will be VERY short and the opener will basically be pulled as close as possible to the ceiling.

No, LHR works just fine with an opener. I have the exact setup I was describing. I have LHR track, a torsion spring, and a trolley opener in 10" of headroom with no cutting or anything. It should work just fine for you.

John

 

[paredown]

Jury's still out on the opener question since the headroom will be tight (under 10") so I'll defer to the installer. Thanks to everyone who weighed in with possibilities and suggestions.

I have a small question for today--I'm redoing the opening for the door, and I measure the actual width of the new (used) door as 10' 1/8".

Are 10' doors actually 10' or is there always some variation as to actual versus nominal size?

And if so, should I plan my finished opening to be 10' 1/8", or leave some small amount of clearance?

(These are professionally made, but not big-factory doors...)