Garage framing

[Snapped-off]

I keep running into roadblocks. Before I cover the walls of the shop, I need to insulate, before that I want to move the electrical, before that, I need to figure out a solution to the current 2x4 framing, which will affect the electrical.

The current dilemma, should I add some 2x2 strips to the current framing? I'd like the future walls to be flush with the blocks.

I've got 2 ¼" of space from the sill plate to the edge of the block. So while it won't be quite flush it'll be as close as it will get I think.

Should I put a vertical 2x2 on each stud with one along the sill plate? Or just run 3-4 horizontal strips across the studs?

 

[jack stand]

Is this a long term property?
If it were me (in Maine), I'd move around your wiring, put in r13 fiberglass, then nail on 2" foam directly on the studs then finish the interior.
PS: somehow fill the blocks with spray foam first. There are alternatives that will help. In years past "vermiculite" was used and I imagine that even packaging "peanuts" would be better than nothing.

 

[larry4406]

@jack stand ‘s approach will give you an excellent thermal break but might give you grief when installing future shelving, benches, etc.

My garage has similar. I ripped 2x_’s such that when stacked on top of the 2x4 framing the drywall flushed with the stem wall. I screwed the rip to the stud. Mine netted close to 5.5” so I used R21 fiberglass.

 

[The Cobbler]

I'd look at ripping strips of 1-1/2 styrofoam and nail them in place with 1x3 to shim up the walls . a nice thermal break and wood directly behind the sheating for attaching to.

 

[nadogail]

Either way should be fine.

 

[Snapped-off]

Is this a long term property?
If it were me (in Maine), I'd move around your wiring, put in r13 fiberglass, then nail on 2" foam directly on the studs then finish the interior.
PS: somehow fill the blocks with spray foam first. There are alternatives that will help. In years past "vermiculite" was used and I imagine that even packaging "peanuts" would be better than nothing.

Long term ideally. Just bought it this year. If I put foam over the studs, the outlets would still need to come outwards.

I'll have to look and see if there's enough room to still attach them to the stud and be approximately flush with the non-existant future wall.

@jack stand ‘s approach will give you an excellent thermal break but might give you grief when installing future shelving, benches, etc.

My garage has similar. I ripped 2x_’s such that when stacked on top of the 2x4 framing the drywall flushed with the stem wall. I screwed the rip to the stud. Mine netted close to 5.5” so I used R21 fiberglass.

I was thinking of the 2x2's to avoid having to rip any boards. I don't have a table saw yet.

I'd look at ripping strips of 1-1/2 styrofoam and nail them in place with 1x3 to shim up the walls . a nice thermal break and wood directly behind the sheating for attaching to.

So foam strips over the studs sandwiched between 1x3's?


I'm not too keen on the foam but I guess I can't picture how it'd be done.

 

[Fav Onefour]

I'd insulate and close the block cavities before doing anything.
How big is the garage?
I get the idea to use foam strips, but why not insulate the stud cavities and put full sheet 2" foam board. It wouldn't be the cheapest option, but you would cover the block cavities and bring out the wall. That method would create challenges with interior projects and should still be fire blocked. But wow, you would have a nice r factor wall.

The easiest and cheapest option is to fill the block cavities, cap the block and ignore the ledge. That has been done plenty of times over the years.

 

[Snapped-off]

I'd insulate and close the block cavities before doing anything.
How big is the garage?
I get the idea to use foam strips, but why not insulate the stud cavities and put full sheet 2" foam board. It wouldn't be the cheapest option, but you would cover the block cavities and bring out the wall. That method would create challenges with interior projects and should still be fire blocked. But wow, you would have a nice r factor wall.

The easiest and cheapest option is to fill the block cavities, cap the block and ignore the ledge. That has been done plenty of times over the years.

20x24 detached. I'm pretty sure I'm going to finish the walls with tin, but I may end up doing plywood.. I've gotta overcome all these other hurdles first before I decide...

That was one thought was to just put a board down and live with a small ledge.

How big of a difference will the filled cavities be?

 

[The Cobbler]

the reason I'm suggesting foam sandwiched between 1x is for a thermal break between the framing and sheathing. but, if you're more comfortable with all wood, that's fine too

 

[Fav Onefour]

20x24 detached. I'm pretty sure I'm going to finish the walls with tin, but I may end up doing plywood.. I've gotta overcome all these other hurdles first before I decide...

That was one thought was to just put a board down and live with a small ledge.

How big of a difference will the filled cavities be?

I prefer to have at least some insulation in those walls. I know you are in a little warmer area, but around here those blocks are covered with frost in heated garage/shop if we don't insulate. That kind of heat loss adds up. You have 1 & 1/2 courses above the slab. That adds up to a lot of square feet of cold/hot wall assuming it's above grade. In the old days it was easy with vermiculite in block cavities. Cheap and easy is harder now. I redid a garage a few years back and added a heated slab. In that case, I added foam board to the inside of the block wall and capped the holes with concrete while pouring the slab.

I know you would like to eliminate the ledge, but it might not be a big deal in the long run. It might be easier to insulate the block cavities and just put a treated lumber 2X on top of the block.

 

[Kpaige]

Fix your electrical
Add rigid insulation then plywood to the thickness that meets your needs. If you need an 1.5” to be flush with block add 1” rigid laid horizontally and .5” plywood laid vertically. That way you get that extra insulation break across the studs

 

[Snapped-off]

Fix your electrical
Add rigid insulation then plywood to the thickness that meets your needs. If you need an 1.5” to be flush with block add 1” rigid laid horizontally and .5” plywood laid vertically. That way you get that extra insulation break across the studs

That's fine but I may not do plywood walls.

If I go with this foam route, how should I keep the receptacle boxes from being recessed into the wall? I've got 2 ¼" from the stud face to the face of the block.

I've already got all the new work boxes.

 

[Snapped-off]

I know you would like to eliminate the ledge, but it might not be a big deal in the long run. It might be easier to insulate the block cavities and just put a treated lumber 2X on top of the block.

The more I think about it the more I think I'll just live with a ledge. I'm going to have equipment and stuff up against the wall anyway and I feel like it will be a lot of work for little gain to try and make it all flush.

I never thought to fill the cavities though, so I'm glad I posted. Do you think a big gap spray foam would be ok?

 

[bluedog225]

I’d sprinkle some diatamaceous earth and boric acid in the blocks, then fill with something. Probably not cellulose since it could get wet. But hand placed blown fiberglass or something that can get wet.

You can always figure out how to make the boxes work.

The foam sheets on the walls is a great idea. I’d use polyiso with fiber paper so you have the ability for moisture to pass. Depends on your moisture control plan.

 

[Kpaige]

That's fine but I may not do plywood walls.

If I go with this foam route, how should I keep the receptacle boxes from being recessed into the wall? I've got 2 ¼" from the stud face to the face of the block.

I've already got all the new work boxes.

They make extensions for the boxes and bonus gives you more room in the boxes.
As far as not using plywood Make sure it’s something rigid like plywood for mounting things

 

[bluedog225]

I went for 3/4 ply. It was less expensive then. But no regrets. Pick a spot and nail whatever you want.

 

[Snapped-off]

I’d sprinkle some diatamaceous earth and boric acid in the blocks, then fill with something. Probably not cellulose since it could get wet. But hand placed blown fiberglass or something that can get wet.

You can always figure out how to make the boxes work.

The foam sheets on the walls is a great idea. I’d use polyiso with fiber paper so you have the ability for moisture to pass. Depends on your moisture control plan.

Insect control?

Is the foam serving the same function as an air gap inside multiple pane windows? If it makes any difference, the shop is surrounded by woods, so there's minimal wind.

They make extensions for the boxes and bonus gives you more room in the boxes.
As far as not using plywood Make sure it’s something rigid like plywood for mounting things

I really like the look of tin. I've got a 2nd garage and a full basement, so I don't necessarily need to hang shelves and stuff everywhere.

I went for 3/4 ply. It was less expensive then. But no regrets. Pick a spot and nail whatever you want.

I do like the utility aspect of plywood which is why it's still in consideration.

 

[bluedog225]

The DE and boric acid will control a wide variety of insects.

Around here, spiders, ants, scorpions, centipedes, giant roaches. Costs almost nothing and lasts forever. Very low toxicity. Akin to table salt.

Any foam give you better r-value and ability to control temp if you decide to heat/cool.

Maybe throw up some tyvek for air sealing? Depends on how nice you want to make it.

 

[JohnMc]

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[Snapped-off]

So looking at blown insulation to fill the blocks I found this polystyrene seemingly made just for the task.

Shredded Polystyrene Insulation at Menards® https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...insulation/1611757/p-1444435971153-c-5777.htm

Still tossing the foam idea around. I'm planning on using fiberglass batts to insulate so the foam seems overkill.

 

[CraigStu]

I'd prefer your 2x2s. I have never seen an outlet box that has the attachment to allow it to be attached to a stud that has 2" of foam on top of it. You can get the king w/ ears that flip up behind the drywall but they start coming loose after several plugs/unplugs. But I also agree w/ living w/ the ledge. I had one in one garage and I found that sitting a standard kitchen base cabinet on the ledge brought it up to a nice working height. Fill the cavities w/ any of the above ideas, use construction adhesive to lay a 1x2 on top of the block and call it done. You could also look at all the various pvc trim boards to use as a cover.

 

[Fav Onefour]

So looking at blown insulation to fill the blocks I found this polystyrene seemingly made just for the task.

Shredded Polystyrene Insulation at Menards® https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...insulation/1611757/p-1444435971153-c-5777.htm

Still tossing the foam idea around. I'm planning on using fiberglass batts to insulate so the foam seems overkill.

The block fill stuff looks interesting. I have not seen it before, but it seems simple enough and suited for the task.

 

[Slowboat]

Filling the blocks will do almost nothing for insulation. The cold will still transfer through the non-filled area. Plus some should have been filled with concrete.

When faced with your challenge I framed it out with 2x3 framing. Fairly crappy insulation job on my part…

 

[Snapped-off]

Filling the blocks will do almost nothing for insulation. The cold will still transfer through the non-filled area. Plus some should have been filled with concrete.

When faced with your challenge I framed it out with 2x3 framing. Fairly crappy insulation job on my part…

Pretty much what I had in mind. Just wasn't really looking forward to it. Did you end up finishing your walls? I notice your 2x3 top plate is a little short.

 

[The Cobbler]

....I have never seen an outlet box that has the attachment to allow it to be attached to a stud that has 2" of foam on top of it. .....

could be easily mounted on a block of 2x, plywood or something. yes, it's a bit of extra work ...

 

[Slowboat]

Pretty much what I had in mind. Just wasn't really looking forward to it. Did you end up finishing your walls? I notice your 2x3 top plate is a little short.

I created a wire run in the top 1’ or so. Didn’t carry the studs up as they are just furring strips with no structural value.the whole project was started because I needed to run wires for an EV charger. There was no room over the door framing without creating the extra thickness of the wall

Finished with 1/2” maple ply to the top plate.

 

[Snapped-off]

I created a wire run in the top 1’ or so. Didn’t carry the studs up as they are just furring strips with no structural value.

Finished with 1/2” maple ply to the top plate.

That's what it looked like, I actually missed the additional "top plate" up above. Got a finished photo?

 

[Slowboat]

Already covered with junk as I work on the rest of the garage. I caulked all the seams.

 

[TnClimber]

The more I think about it the more I think I'll just live with a ledge. I'm going to have equipment and stuff up against the wall anyway and I feel like it will be a lot of work for little gain to try and make it all flush.

I never thought to fill the cavities though, so I'm glad I posted. Do you think a big gap spray foam would be ok?

That's exactly what I did. Live with it. It never caused me an issue, but I covered it with a 2by because I didn't want critter holes or dropping something in it. I think big gap spray foam would be fine. I would insulate the walls. I would be careful about the tin in an unheated space. I considered metal but, went with T11 plywood. Photos in my build thread.

 

[Snapped-off]

Already covered with junk as I work on the rest of the garage. I caulked all the seams.

Turned out good.

 

[Snapped-off]

That's exactly what I did. Live with it. It never caused me an issue, but I covered it with a 2by because I didn't want critter holes or dropping something in it. I think big gap spray foam would be fine. I would insulate the walls. I would be careful about the tin in an unheated space. I considered metal but, went with T11 plywood. Photos in my build thread.

The walls will be insulated as soon as the electrical is re-done. That's actually what I was going to start doing... until I figured I'd redo the electrical while everything is open. And that led to this issue with the 2x4 framing..

The shop will be atleast heated, probably next year. I may do a mini split for AC, I'm not sure yet. I'll cross that road when it's time.

 

[CraigStu]

If you can decide where a mini or other heater will go this would be a good time to run a 30amp 240V outlet there. I pulled 30amp out of the air but a little research would give you an idea if that would on average be adequate.