German Double offset box wrench set

[justaguy1]

Very long time visitor. First time posting. Thanks for several of you posting up in the past about German tools. Read 18 pages of threads by search. Still have this question about this style of wrench:

I’m looking at the stahlwille 12 piece set, the gedore of the same, and now the hazet set as well

So far I’m leaning towards stahl, followed by gedore, then hazet.

Who has any of THESE sets and what is your impression of your set vs some of the other listed? How is the comfort in hand?

I don’t care much about the weight as much as overall comfort and durability.

I’m only interested in one of the above sets and will likely get the bigger one from the company I decide.

Appreciate it.

 

[AJHD]

I bought the Stahlwille No. 23/8 set last year. Covered every size, although I don't care for 20mm. They were very nice wrenches. Smooth, clean, absolutely perfect finish. No complaints.

I ended up going a different route and selling them. No fault of the wrenches. I would buy them again.

Amazon.com

 

[justaguy1]

I bought the Stahlwille No. 23/8 set last year. Covered every size, although I don't care for 20mm. They were very nice wrenches. Smooth, clean, absolutely perfect finish. No complaints.

I ended up going a different route and selling them. No fault of the wrenches. I would buy them again.

Amazon.com

Thanks. I’m talking about the deeper models. Those are pretty much like a standard combo wrench but with two box ends instead of just the one

 

[AJHD]

My bad, I didn't notice the deep offset part. Lucky for you the Stahlwille deep offset wrenches are cheaper;

Amazon.com

 

[Steve_P]

I have both styles that AJHD linked. I rarely use the deep offset ones, but on a rare occasion I need them. Rather than necessity, mostly I'll use one just to use one. I don't think I've ever read a bad review about them here, and I've probably had my set 10 years after seeing them here. Nothing bad to say about either set, nice satin finish, etc. Don't expect Snap On beauty and polished perfection from either set, they're not finished to that level, but not crude like from a Pakistani garage 40 grit belt sander either .

 

[Dave455]

I can’t make your links work, but I think I know the wrenches you mean, and I have examples of each, albeit no sets.

Gedore I find consistently disappointing, and these are no exception. The finish is very rough (unpleasant to use) and the overall quality seems poor. Some of the broaching is not centered, and a couple of the wrenches are not even straight.

My examples are maybe 15 years old, and from time to time I try more Gedore in the belief it might have got better, but it never has. The only Gedore wrenches I’d buy are the No 7 combo which has a different finish.

The Hazet are in a different league. Although matte finished, for the most part, the Hazet 630’s are lovely to hold and use, and are obviously very high quality. It has been suggested that the older ones might be better than the new. That could be. The older ones are up there with the very best ever made.

Note that, unless there has been a recent change, the box ends don’t have off corner engagement. I wouldn’t let that put you off.


Stahlwille are superb in every respect. While it has been suggested, and I agree, that Hazet’s sockets are slightly better finished than Stahlwille, I think their wrenches are pretty much even. Stahlwille have a very practical satin finish that’s superb to use (very durable) and have a unique feel.

Stahlwille do have off corner engagement, so maybe creep ahead for that. I use Stahlwille as my “go to” wrenches in metric (admittedly the No 23) and wouldn’t change that.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Stahlwille is the most consistent of all three brands. Literally everything I have from Stahlwille is near perfect. Their QC is on point. That being said, I still use my Gedore wrenches over my Stahlwille because I prefer Gedore’s finish. It has an actual texture, almost like a media blasted surface, so I get a much better grip on them. The Stahlwille are a very smooth finish, not polished chrome smooth but almost, and so it can get slippery. The I-beam design does make the Stahlwille wrenches easy to hold for long periods.

The big downside to Gedore is that the wrenches aren’t always perfect. Some of mine are immaculate while others do have the slightest bends or warps. All the broaching on my Gedore wrenches have been perfect. Fit seems the same across the board, with maybe my Gedore wrenches being a tad, tad tighter. Last time I checked, the Stahlwille set was cheaper than either Hazet or Gedore.

I forgot to add, I know you said you weren’t interested in any other brands but Heyco makes a true deep offset double box end wrench too. While I haven’t been as thrilled with their SAE wrenches, their metric line has been more consistent quality wise. They are also a tad cheaper individually for each wrench and they can be had in a variety of size combinations (think 8x10, or 8x9, etc.) so you can get a set of wrenches that fit your needs. I think, I don’t have my Stahlwille catalog here at work right now, that Gedore also does this but you’d have to buy individually as the sets have the wrenches paired by numerical order. It helps because I rarely use a 14x15 or a 18x19 but having a 17x19 or 12x14 is fantastic.

 

[justaguy1]

Stahlwille is the most consistent of all three brands. Literally everything I have from Stahlwille is near perfect. Their QC is on point. That being said, I still use my Gedore wrenches over my Stahlwille because I prefer Gedore’s finish. It has an actual texture, almost like a media blasted surface, so I get a much better grip on them. The Stahlwille are a very smooth finish, not polished chrome smooth but almost, and so it can get slippery. The I-beam design does make the Stahlwille wrenches easy to hold for long periods.

The big downside to Gedore is that the wrenches aren’t always perfect. Some of mine are immaculate while others do have the slightest bends or warps. All the broaching on my Gedore wrenches have been perfect. Fit seems the same across the board, with maybe my Gedore wrenches being a tad, tad tighter. Last time I checked, the Stahlwille set was cheaper than either Hazet or Gedore.

I forgot to add, I know you said you weren’t interested in any other brands but Heyco makes a true deep offset double box end wrench too. While I haven’t been as thrilled with their SAE wrenches, their metric line has been more consistent quality wise. They are also a tad cheaper individually for each wrench and they can be had in a variety of size combinations (think 8x10, or 8x9, etc.) so you can get a set of wrenches that fit your needs. I think, I don’t have my Stahlwille catalog here at work right now, that Gedore also does this but you’d have to buy individually as the sets have the wrenches paired by numerical order. It helps because I rarely use a 14x15 or a 18x19 but having a 17x19 or 12x14 is fantastic.

Honestly because my sk x frame tap out at 19 and my oshm snappie’s also tap at 19. I’m looking at the stahl 20/12. Or similar to to that; to have some bigger sizes for now.

and then start looking at something like the 13/26 or similar from Proto or gedore or hazet or whatever.

 

[dukefx]

Too many complaints about Gedore these days. I have Gedore ratcheting wrenches because they're the only ones in Europe that make them (i.e. not CN/TW imports). To my surprise some were silver spray painted to hide blemishes (no idea who did it). I discovered it as I was cleaning off the sticker residue with a solvent. I don't think I'll be buying any more wrenches from Gedore.

Stahlwille has top notch quality control and their offset box ends are/were legendary. I don't think I have seen them tested tho. The old ones my father has are superb. I have no idea how the new batches perform. We've seen on TTC that the open ended No. 10 performed quite poorly. Not only did they slip but the tolerances were nowhere near as good as my set. They even retested them with another batch. Results were a bit better but not by much. Since you're looking for box ends this probably doesn't apply but I had to say it. They might have lowered their standards.

Hazet is still top notch. Cold forged for tight tolerances. However as seen in multiple threads on here they are also suffering from QC issues these days, just aesthetical tho. They are probably also the most expensive of the 3.

If I had to pick I'd probably go with Stahlwille. They are relatively cheap and easy to get. I wouldn't have to return them due to defects either.

 

[drtyler]

Hazet is still top notch. Cold forged for tight tolerances. However as seen in multiple threads on here they are also suffering from QC issues these days, just aesthetical tho. They are probably also the most expensive of the 3.

Which Hazet tools are suffering from (aesthetical) QC issues?

Are we talking crooked wrenches, peeling chrome?

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Which Hazet tools are suffering from (aesthetical) QC issues?

Are we talking crooked wrenches, peeling chrome?

I believe the big catch on Hazet wrenches is that the box end broaching isn’t always centered. I’ve seen a couple of guys here and on YouTube have the same issue.

 

[dukefx]

Which Hazet tools are suffering from (aesthetical) QC issues?

Are we talking crooked wrenches, peeling chrome?

Things like this for example. You'll find many more.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Things like this for example. You'll find many more.

I have a few Gedore wrenches with mistakes from the forging die. I understand how someone wouldn’t be happy about it, but those blemishes do nothing to the wrench’s functionality so I have always been fine with it. In ways I feel it adds character to my wrenches.

 

[dukefx]

I don't really find it acceptable for that kind of money.

 

[drtyler]

I believe the big catch on Hazet wrenches is that the box end broaching isn’t always centered. I’ve seen a couple of guys here and on YouTube have the same issue.

Things like this for example. You'll find many more.

Thanks.

I've got quite a bit of Hazet and haven't seen or experienced any issues. Although, I probably would not have noticed the blemish in the 600LG wrench beam.

But I can see both sides considering the tools are not inexpensive.

I have found that in use, I prefer using 600N/600LG to the Stahlwille 14. I find the beam more comfortable.

As to the OP question, the Stahlwille 20 are often available for a good price, and they are proven. Hard to go wrong with that choice.

 

[Chrome Vanadium Cody]

I don’t have a full set but I went through and bought Stahlwille 20 series wrenches in the key sizes I use most. Been very happy with them, the offset is often “just right” and the part where it transitions from to the ring to the beam is thinner than the wrenches in this style I’ve tried from other brands which helps them fit in tight spots. The one thing to know is the wrench size tolerances are pretty tight, I’ve had situations where they won’t fit on a partially rounded fastener even though my other wrenches/sockets do.

 

[Jarhead0408]

Another vote for Stahlwille here. I don’t have any of the Gedore or Hazet, but the Stahlwille set I have is top notch.

 

[Coach James]

I have the Stahlwille deep offset double box ends from 6 to 32mm. I actually got them through Amazon.de as that was a lot cheaper than Amazon.com. I love those wrenches. I often use them when a regular combo box end will work.

 

[ptabatcher]

Another vote for Stahlwille here. I don’t have any of the Gedore or Hazet, but the Stahlwille set I have is top notch.

Same for me. Have been very happy with the Stahlwille.

 

[Hakeem]

Very long time visitor. First time posting. Thanks for several of you posting up in the past about German tools. Read 18 pages of threads by search. Still have this question about this style of wrench:

I’m looking at the stahlwille 12 piece set, the gedore of the same, and now the hazet set as well

So far I’m leaning towards stahl, followed by gedore, then hazet.

Who has any of THESE sets and what is your impression of your set vs some of the other listed? How is the comfort in hand?

I don’t care much about the weight as much as overall comfort and durability.

I’m only interested in one of the above sets and will likely get the bigger one from the company I decide.

Appreciate it.

Couple pictures of a Gedore 21/23 vs a Stahlwille 20/22.





Hope that helps, I only have the one Gedore wrench but I’m happy to take more photos.

The Gedore seems fine, but generally unremarkable. I could see people preferring the pleasantly rounded beam over the the square-ish beam of the Stahlwille, but otherwise the Stahlwille is the superior wrench by a bit. I always marvel at the design when I use them.

Can you tell I’m a huge fan??

 

[john.k]

Stahlwille prices have come down bigtime......local agents sent me a colour flyer back in the day (30 yrs ago) and a set of D/E rings would be around $1000 Oz ......which was pretty close to $1000US......a set of combi spanners was something like $600......so Im thinking the brand has been taken over by one of the biggies .........Stahlwille used to advertise their rings were "thin as technically possible to make ,and essential for German and Italian cars."

 

[john.k]

The only German car I ever owned was made in Australia ..TRUE.

 

[drtyler]

The only German car I ever owned was made in Australia ..TRUE.

Wow, what was the make and model??

 

[LXCam]

Another vote for Stahlwille here. I don’t have any of the Gedore or Hazet, but the Stahlwille set I have is top notch.

Same for me but I’m more than happy with them. I have a few brands of DBE’s and even if I don’t need the deep offset I’ll still go for them unless it’s a fitment issue.

 

[dscheidt]

I have a stahlwille set, covers 6-22 skipping 21. I don't use them a whole lot, but they're nice enough to use regularly, if that's the kind of wrench you want to use. I prefer regular offset combination wrenches, but these are useful for some low clearance uses. I like the satin chrome, good grip with greasy hands.

 

[justaguy1]

Couple pictures of a Gedore 21/23 vs a Stahlwille 20/22.





Hope that helps, I only have the one Gedore wrench but I’m happy to take more photos.

The Gedore seems fine, but generally unremarkable. I could see people preferring the pleasantly rounded beam over the the square-ish beam of the Stahlwille, but otherwise the Stahlwille is the superior wrench by a bit. I always marvel at the design when I use them.

Can you tell I’m a huge fan??

Those look defective. I think you should send them to me for proper disposal.

 

[Snapped-off]

I've got the deep offset Stahlwilles. Only bought them because they were at a blowout price on Amazon a couple years ago for some reason.

They're pretty nice, although they don't see much use.

 

[Kaffeetanne]

Gedore I find consistently disappointing, and these are no exception. The finish is very rough (unpleasant to use) and the overall quality seems poor.

Historically, Gedore's target audience was sectors such as mining and heavy industry. People there usually don't care much about the aesthetics of the tools, hence the ruff finish on most tools.

The Hazet are in a different league. Although matte finished, for the most part, the Hazet 630’s are lovely to hold and use, and are obviously very high quality.

Hazet wrenches are superb. Personally i prefer their look and feel over Stahlwille.

Stahlwille prices have come down bigtime......local agents sent me a colour flyer back in the day (30 yrs ago) and a set of D/E rings would be around $1000 Oz ......which was pretty close to $1000US......a set of combi spanners was something like $600......so Im thinking the brand has been taken over by one of the biggies .........Stahlwille used to advertise their rings were "thin as technically possible to make ,and essential for German and Italian cars."

Importers like to sell German tools at an exorbitant markup and engage in marketing voodoo, babbling about some unmatched mystical quality. The same effect can also be seen with Japanese manufacturers such as Koken or KTC.
Best to buy direct from the domestic market and get it shipped home. Thanks to Amazon and ebay GSP it's easy to do.

 

[john.k]

gedore sold here was made in India ,so no reason for high prices there ............never seemed common though ......all the gedore I have came from the army auctions ............a funny thing ,a guy bought containers of ex Singapore armed forces tools,all were Snap -On .........the Oz armed forces seem to gone for the cheapest ..........I know at one time they bought Chinese made underwear........and claimed it made them itchy.

 

[Kaffeetanne]

gedore sold here was made in India

Oh yeah, the infamous Gedore India wrenches from the 80s. They are a common sight around here, and while not the worst wrenches ever, they are clearly far away from what people would consider a good tool.

As far as I know, the plan at the time was to produce cheaper tools for the emerging markets in Asia and thus profit from the growth there.
In the end, however, a large number of these wrenches ended up in Western markets, where they were sold by numerous hardware stores, among others, which actually hurt Gedore's reputation pretty bad.
This does not seem to have resulted in any long-term learning effect, as these days imported tools from China are being sold under the label "Gedore red".

 

[justaguy1]

I've got the deep offset Stahlwilles. Only bought them because they were at a blowout price on Amazon a couple years ago for some reason.

They're pretty nice, although they don't see much use.

Which set exactly and what did it cost ?

 

[justaguy1]

Historically, Gedore's target audience was sectors such as mining and heavy industry. People there usually don't care much about the aesthetics of the tools, hence the ruff finish on most tools.


Hazet wrenches are superb. Personally i prefer their look and feel over Stahlwille.


Importers like to sell German tools at an exorbitant markup and engage in marketing voodoo, babbling about some unmatched mystical quality. The same effect can also be seen with Japanese manufacturers such as Koken or KTC.
Best to buy direct from the domestic market and get it shipped home. Thanks to Amazon and ebay GSP it's easy to do.

How are hazet ratchet wrenches ? Any issues ? Specifically how bad is it to warranty one?

 

[Snapped-off]

Which set exactly and what did it cost ?

 

[drtyler]

How are hazet ratchet wrenches ? Any issues ? Specifically how bad is it to warranty one?

They are fine. Downsides are high price, and they are made in Taiwan. Same with Stahlwille ratcheting wrenches.

Gedore are German made.

 

[justaguy1]

They are fine. Downsides are high price, and they are made in Taiwan. Same with Stahlwille ratcheting wrenches.

Gedore are German made.

How are the hazet compared to snap ratcheting wrenches(the normal ones Not blue point) ?

Looks like the hazet goes to 32mm. I don’t see that with snap on though. Sort of thinking about getting the widest set of these as well. Now I’m wondering how gedore ratcheting compares to the others I just mentioned. As long as they are offset that is

 

[drtyler]

How are the hazet compared to snap ratcheting wrenches(the normal ones Not blue point) ?

Looks like the hazet goes to 32mm. I don’t see that with snap on though. Sort of thinking about getting the widest set of these as well. Now I’m wondering how gedore ratcheting compares to the others I just mentioned. As long as they are offset that is

My opinion, but there are no better reversible ratching wrenches than the Snap-on. They are awesome.

Unless you can get a great deal on the Hazet, I would not pay extra for the name.

Facom/USAG are quite good, made in Taiwan, and are often available for decent deal.

Gedore are ok, but their pricing has gotten a bit high here in the USA.

What do you work on where a 32mm ratcheting wrench is required?

FYI, my reversible ratcheting wrenches are the latest Snap-on, Facom, and NAPA Carlyle. I have owned the Gedore and SK X-frames and singles of Hazet and Stahlwille, but since sold them. I use the Snap-on almost daily.

 

[justaguy1]

An update. I went all out and go the 20/10 set. Then wound up a couple days later grabbing the tcs 14/21. On the 20/10 there are spots in the finish that look off. So then the tcs 14/21 showed up and the 36mm wrench had came loose inside and messed up the tcs foam. While I don’t mind the wrenches eventually showing wear or whatever it’s a whole other thing for them to show up with blemishes etc on them brand new.

So I reached out to stahlwille and they replied asking for pics and receipt, I replied with several pics and the proof of purchase and they have not replied in 5 days. I followed up today with an email and didn’t hear back either. So buyer beware it seems as if the service just isn’t there with stahlwille. It ***** too as I was probably going to grab the tcs 13/25, 23/8 and the tcs 20/10 or the 20/12 in the short term but this experience is making me question what happens it one breaks during routine (non abuse) use. Or the jaws spread etc.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

An update. I went all out and go the 20/10 set. Then wound up a couple days later grabbing the tcs 14/21. On the 20/10 there are spots in the finish that look off. So then the tcs 14/21 showed up and the 36mm wrench had came loose inside and messed up the tcs foam. While I don’t mind the wrenches eventually showing wear or whatever it’s a whole other thing for them to show up with blemishes etc on them brand new.

So I reached out to stahlwille and they replied asking for pics and receipt, I replied with several pics and the proof of purchase and they have not replied in 5 days. I followed up today with an email and didn’t hear back either. So buyer beware it seems as if the service just isn’t there with stahlwille. It ***** too as I was probably going to grab the tcs 13/25, 23/8 and the tcs 20/10 or the 20/12 in the short term but this experience is making me question what happens it one breaks during routine (non abuse) use. Or the jaws spread etc.

Damn man, what do the blemishes look like? Hopefully you will hear back soon.

 

[drtyler]

An update. I went all out and go the 20/10 set. Then wound up a couple days later grabbing the tcs 14/21. On the 20/10 there are spots in the finish that look off. So then the tcs 14/21 showed up and the 36mm wrench had came loose inside and messed up the tcs foam. While I don’t mind the wrenches eventually showing wear or whatever it’s a whole other thing for them to show up with blemishes etc on them brand new.

So I reached out to stahlwille and they replied asking for pics and receipt, I replied with several pics and the proof of purchase and they have not replied in 5 days. I followed up today with an email and didn’t hear back either. So buyer beware it seems as if the service just isn’t there with stahlwille. It ***** too as I was probably going to grab the tcs 13/25, 23/8 and the tcs 20/10 or the 20/12 in the short term but this experience is making me question what happens it one breaks during routine (non abuse) use. Or the jaws spread etc.

Post the tool blem pics, please.

 

[F-22]

this experience is making me question what happens it one breaks during routine (non abuse) use. Or the jaws spread etc.

Jaws do not spread during routine use. Normally you can't expect anything more from a German company. The type of service the US brands offer just isn't expected in most of Europe.

Personally I like the round-handle offset wrenches. Not sure which new ones are like that. I have some old Italian USAG ones, as well as the older Gedore and Unior and Elora. They fit really nice in the hand. I have a couple of the modern Stahlwilles too, and while they're definitely very well made I don't like how wide the handle is and how much of the box end it obstructs - the handle is more like on a regular combo wrench with these, and it looks like all three big brands go for that. The new Elora still seem to be made with the round handle though.