Gfci laundry.

[sberry]

Since it's in the basement spoke we need gfci for laundry, washer?

 

[Dagny]

yes.

 

[exranger06]

Even if the laundry is not in a basement, it always requires GFCI protection. Also requires AFCI protection, regardless of location. You must also have a dedicated 20 amp circuit for the washer. If you want additional receptacles in the "laundry area," you can put them on the washer circuit, but that circuit cannot feed receptacles in other areas and it cannot be used for lighting.

 

[dcg9381]

The standard outlet (15/20A) needs GFCI protection.
If you have a 30A 240V "electric dryer" socket - I do not think that needs protection, but I stand to be corrected.

 

[exranger06]

The standard outlet (15/20A) needs GFCI protection.
If you have a 30A 240V "electric dryer" socket - I do not think that needs protection, but I stand to be corrected.

You are correct. Everything I said in my last post applies only to the 120V receptacles. The 240V dryer receptacle does not require AFCI or GFCI.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My understanding is a GFCI is require if you are "near" a water appliance (sink) or if the floor is concrete.

The price of GFCI/AFCI combo breakers is nuts !

 

[Higgins]

And older breaker panels will not accept the newer ACFI breaker!

 

[exranger06]

My understanding is a GFCI is require if you are "near" a water appliance (sink) or if the floor is concrete.

The price of GFCI/AFCI combo breakers is nuts !

A washing machine is also a water appliance. It requires GFCI whether there's a sink nearby or not. You don't have to use a GFCI/AFCI breaker, although that is an option. You can use an AFCI breaker and install a GFCI receptacle, assuming it's in an accessible location.

 

[AntonLargiader]

My understanding is a GFCI is require if you are "near" a water appliance (sink) or if the floor is concrete.

The price of GFCI/AFCI combo breakers is nuts !

About $40 for Homeline DF breakers. I don't think it's really that bad. It's a pretty sophisticated little device, with fault logging so you know what tripped it. I have a few and am just now ordering some more.

 

[u2slow]

You are correct. Everything I said in my last post applies only to the 120V receptacles. The 240V dryer receptacle does not require AFCI or GFCI.

A dryer receptacle is 120V to ground, and also 120V between a hot and neutral.

NEC seems to demand AFCI or GFCI on so many circuits anyway, so why not go all the way for safety's sake, and simplicity?

 

[AntonLargiader]

NEC seems to demand AFCI or GFCI on so many circuits anyway, so why not go all the way for safety's sake, and simplicity?

That day is drawing nearer, I suspect. Already there are houses built with all DF 120V breakers. If such 240V breakers were $40 rather than $100, you'd probably see more of them and if they were cheaper you'd probably see them required.

Also if there were a strong accident history with those circuits you'd probably see them required, so maybe there just isn't a big problem to solve. That said, laundry machines on a wet concrete basement floor... I'd sure want protection there.

 

[sberry]

Those are dedicated circuits with grounded appliances. Not really the same as generals.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

GFCI protection for 240v equipment and appliances is coming.

Nec 2020 will require it for air conditioning compressors

 

[checkthisout]

GFCI protection for 240v equipment and appliances is coming.

Nec 2020 will require it for air conditioning compressors

For what purpose? Will most manufacturers just install it as part of the compressor/condenser assembly?

 

[Dagny]

To make housing unaffordable.

 

[AntonLargiader]

To make housing unaffordable.

Progress often has such a cost, but NFPA isn't blind to that. They axed a proposed 240V GFCI requirement in 2017 because it wasn't justified. So if they are implementing it specifically for AC compressors (grounded though they may be) then I'm going to assume there's a reason for it. Yeah, it's an extra $100 on your $5000~$15,000 HVAC system. Not exactly a housing market killer. I'll probably update my breakers at some point.

Personally, I'm happy that the NFPA is figuring out how to make electrical power as safe as it can be. I don't want kids to die because they mess with a receptacle, or whatever. Many accidents involve absolutely no negligence on the part of the injured person. "Just be careful" doesn't cut it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

For what purpose? Will most manufacturers just install it as part of the compressor/condenser assembly?

To protect someone from getting shocked or electrocuted.

From what i recall on the Facebook code discussion group where i read about it, someone was either shocked or electrocuted working on a compressor.

 

[AntonLargiader]

For whatever reason I get the ElectricalZone e-newsletter from ECMWEB. It has very interesting stories about how people get hurt or killed by electricity. Some of the circumstances leading to these events are fascinating; it can take quite a bit of investigation by experts to understand how it ever happened.

example: https://www.ecmweb.com/safety/case-pressure-washer-electrocution

list: https://www.ecmweb.com/safety/accidents-investigations

 

[sberry]

Gfci is a great salvation. Makes up.for a lot of error.

 

[walrus]

Any equipment cord and plug connected(50amps) in a deli, restaurant kitchen etc has to be GFCI

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Any equipment cord and plug connected(50amps) in a deli, restaurant kitchen etc has to be GFCI

Hmmm

I recently worked on a starbucks and the brand new espresso machines (cord and plug connected 208v) and their circuits were not required to be GFCI protected.

 

[alfredeneuman]

To make housing unaffordable.

..... and as of Jan 1, 2020 in California all new houses built will have solar panels BY LAW

 

[walrus]

Hmmm

I recently worked on a starbucks and the brand new espresso machines (cord and plug connected 208v) and their circuits were not required to be GFCI protected.

2017 code? In Maine they are making everything cord and plug connected in a commercial kitchen be GFCI
And I've heard of chains being made to change out breakers as their prints were not calling for GFCI

 

[checkthisout]

To protect someone from getting shocked or electrocuted.

From what i recall on the Facebook code discussion group where i read about it, someone was either shocked or electrocuted working on a compressor.

That would be a silly reason. If a unit is open and being serviced, isn't that out of scope for normal use per se?

Weird.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Many compressors are on the ground, so they may be treating this like the unfinished basements where the user is standing on a conductive surface. Between that and just being outdoors to begin with where near everything 120V is GFCI, this is a logical next step.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That would be a silly reason. If a unit is open and being serviced, isn't that out of scope for normal use per se?

Weird.

Out of scope for normal?

Have you ever seen someone service an AC unit?

Servicing of AC units often times requires the unit to be powered on to service it.

Such as adding refrigerant, checking pressures etc...

 

[checkthisout]

Out of scope for normal?

Have you ever seen someone service an AC unit?

Servicing of AC units often times requires the unit to be powered on to service it.

Such as adding refrigerant, checking pressures etc...

I see. So you think it should be equipped with GFCI in case the electrician that hooked it up failed to ground it properly or something like that?

That's understandable for that reason then household circuits like water heaters, ovens, stove tops etc should also have it then.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I see. So you think it should be equipped with GFCI in case the electrician that hooked it up failed to ground it properly or something like that?

That's understandable for that reason then household circuits like water heaters, ovens, stove tops etc should also have it then.

Lets back up here.

I never said anything about what I think it should be.

Ive merely just been explaining the code making panels rationale behind adopting the new requirement.

 

[AntonLargiader]

That would be a silly reason. If a unit is open and being serviced, isn't that out of scope for normal use per se?

Weird.

Depends on your own definition of use. The person at risk of being shocked is the one servicing it, so that servicing operation is the use that the code is trying to make safer.