GFCI wiring and NEC ??

[akpolaris]

I understand that a circuit can have 12 receptacles. Does a light switch count as 1 of these twelve points?

A GFCI can protect 5 receptacles down stream of it. In this circuit if another GFCI is installed (to protect the next 5 outlets) does the wiring now feed into the "line" side with the next group of protected receptacles now wired in the "load"?

 

[mjbasford]

I understand that a circuit can have 12 receptacles. Does a light switch count as 1 of these twelve points?

For residential work, there is not limit to the number of outlets allowed per circuit.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

For residential work, there is not limit to the number of outlets allowed per circuit.

That is what I thought.

You can't put a subsequent GFCI downstream from the first GFCI (which of course would be on the protected wires, i.e. off the "load" lugs).

 

[akpolaris]

Ok factoring in a load there must be a limit to the amount of stuff you can put on a 20 amp circuit though. I am building a shop with an apartment in a part of it. I have always understood that the limit on a circuit was 12 or 13 components

 

[Alchymist]

I understand that a circuit can have 12 receptacles. Does a light switch count as 1 of these twelve points?

A GFCI can protect 5 receptacles down stream of it. In this circuit if another GFCI is installed (to protect the next 5 outlets) does the wiring now feed into the "line" side with the next group of protected receptacles now wired in the "load"?

Not a good idea to daisy chain GFCIs. A GFCI can protect any number of down stream receptacles.

GFCI tutorial:
https://www.nema.org/Products/Documents/NEMA-GFCI-2012-Field-Representative-Presentation.pdf

 

[akpolaris]

thanks for the link, interesting

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I understand that a circuit can have 12 receptacles. Does a light switch count as 1 of these twelve points?

A GFCI can protect 5 receptacles down stream of it. In this circuit if another GFCI is installed (to protect the next 5 outlets) does the wiring now feed into the "line" side with the next group of protected receptacles now wired in the "load"?

The NEC doesnt have a limit for residential.

And u only need 1 GFCI per circuit.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Ok factoring in a load there must be a limit to the amount of stuff you can put on a 20 amp circuit though. I am building a shop with an apartment in a part of it. I have always understood that the limit on a circuit was 12 or 13 components

It all depends on the way the property's classified and zoned.
If it's considered residential, no limit as to the number of receptacles.

If it's commercial, receptacles are considered to be 180VA each. A 20 Amp circuit at 120V provides 2400 VA of power.

2400 divided by 180 = 13.33...... so you are limited to 13 receptacles in other than a residential setting.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I am not certain if it is actually part of the NEC, but ...

Kitchens require one circuit to the left of the sink and a different circuit to the right. Both must be GFCI protected. I am not certain if they are required to be 20A, but it is a good idea. Refrigerators are usually on a separate circuit. Dishwasher and garbage disposers are not required to be on separate circuits, but frequently are.

Bathrooms also require a unique (20A ?) circuit. I would not share that with the lights.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If it's commercial, receptacles are considered to be 180VA each.

I never heard that ! That is only 1.5A @ 120V !!

Got a reference ?

 

[alfredeneuman]

NEC (2011) 220.14 (I)
Receptacle Outlets. Except as covered in 220.14(J) and (K), receptacle outlets shall be calculated at not less than 180 volt-amperes for each single or for each multiple receptacle on one yoke.

(J) Is for dwelling units.

(K) Banks and Office Buildings. In banks or office buildings, the receptacle loads shall be calculated to be the larger of (1) or (2):
(1) The calculated load from 220.14(I)
(2) 11 volt-amperes/m2 or 1 volt-ampere/ft2

(L) Other Outlets. Other outlets not covered in 220.14(A) through (K) shall be calculated based on 180 volt-amperes per outlet.

 

[Norcal]

I am not certain if it is actually part of the NEC, but ... The NEC is not supposed to be a design manual.

Kitchens require one circuit to the left of the sink and a different circuit to the right. Both must be GFCI protected. I am not certain if they are required to be 20A, but it is a good idea. Refrigerators are usually on a separate circuit. Dishwasher and garbage disposers are not required to be on separate circuits, but frequently are.

Bathrooms also require a unique (20A ?) circuit. I would not share that with the lights.

All that is required is two small appliance branch circuits for the countertops, the fridge is permitted to be on the SABC, DW's, and Disposals are not allowed on it.

Underlined comment in the quote above added by me.

 

[Cmreschke]

Hey got a reference for left and right of the sink? What happens if my sink is in the island and there is no backsplash?
Can left side receptacles cross over and be right side receptacles also? Like I might have 1 receptacle left of sink and 5 on right. Can I make my circuits 3 and 3?

 

[Norcal]

It's somewhere in the Urban Legend Code.

 

[Cmreschke]

Lol I'm sure of it.

 

[theoldwizard1]

All that is required is two small appliance branch circuits for the countertops, the fridge is permitted to be on the SABC, DW's, and Disposals are not allowed on it.

I had one sparky telling me the microwave, refrigerator, DW and disposal all had to be on unique circuits in addition of the 2 SABC. That would be 6 circuits plus lighting in a kitchen !

 

[rlitman]

I had one sparky telling me the microwave, refrigerator, DW and disposal all had to be on unique circuits in addition of the 2 SABC. That would be 6 circuits plus lighting in a kitchen !

If not necessary, it is certainly a good idea.

Refrigerator should be on its own circuit, not because it draws that much power, but because if the breaker happens to trip unnoticed, your food may spoil.

Microwave is a high draw item, and would not play well sharing a circuit with a toaster or coffee maker.

DW can be too. Disposal can also, but isn't run for that long, so may not be as big an issue. My DW and disposal share circuits.

 

[Alchymist]

I had one sparky telling me the microwave, refrigerator, DW and disposal all had to be on unique circuits in addition of the 2 SABC. That would be 6 circuits plus lighting in a kitchen !

Already have 6 circuits + lighting in our kitchen, and planning on adding 2 more. What's not to like about having enough outlets? And we don't have a disposal!

 

[Zeke]

Hey got a reference for left and right of the sink? What happens if my sink is in the island and there is no backsplash?
Can left side receptacles cross over and be right side receptacles also? Like I might have 1 receptacle left of sink and 5 on right. Can I make my circuits 3 and 3?

Google "counter top receptacles" and you will find the requirement. AFA the distribution of the 2 convenience circuits, you can do whatever you want as long as you place one outlet of each circuit on either side of the sink. The no backsplash will require an outlet on the upper side of the island or peninsula. Any countertop running 12" or greater requires an outlet on the wall behind and 2 if the CT is longer than 24" from the first receptacle.

 

[MoonRise]

Hey got a reference for left and right of the sink? What happens if my sink is in the island and there is no backsplash?
Can left side receptacles cross over and be right side receptacles also? Like I might have 1 receptacle left of sink and 5 on right. Can I make my circuits 3 and 3?

Kitchens are required to have at least two 20amp Small Appliance Branch Circuits (for a while now ).

I don't remember any requirement in the NEC as to 'left' and 'right' of a sink.

The SABC requirement applies to all the countertop area/length in the kitchen.

Thus an island fits in the requirement for requiring outlet(s) as well.

Which generally is/was any countertop area/length greater than 12 inches has to have an outlet available. And countertop (or island ) outlets have to be spaced such that any space between outlets can be no more than 24 inches from outlet to outlet.

If the space 'behind' a sink/range/cooktop on an island is less than 12 inches deep (behind the 'thingy' ), then the 'thingy' divides the countertop space and you then just have to space outlet(s) based on the countertop space left and right of the 'thingy'. But if the depth 'behind' is greater than 12 inches deep, then the countertop is considered 'continuous' and outlet(s) must be spaced accordingly. No face-up countertop outlets.

Don't for get the GFCI requirements within 6 feet of a sink in the kitchen as well.

 

[Norcal]

The six foot rule in kitchens is long gone now all countertop receptacles are required to have GFCI protection.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Already have 6 circuits + lighting in our kitchen, and planning on adding 2 more. What's not to like about having enough outlets? And we don't have a disposal!

Old house, kitchen. I had to add 4 tandem breakers to get enough. If I went 6, it would have been a new panel.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Refrigerator should be on its own circuit, not because it draws that much power, but because if the breaker happens to trip unnoticed, your food may spoil.

IANACL (I am not a code lawyer), but I have heard that there is an exception to the GFCI garage requirement for refrigerators and freezers. Single outlet (no duplex).

 

[acer66]

When it says "Receptacle req. when this peninsula dimension is bigger than 24""
is it referring to the receptacle shown at the end of the peninsula?

Thanks

 

[rlitman]

IANACL (I am not a code lawyer), but I have heard that there is an exception to the GFCI garage requirement for refrigerators and freezers. Single outlet (no duplex).

I believe you are correct. I have my freezer in my garage on its own circuit, on a GFCI, with a child safety plug in the other hole so nobody would use it.

Haven't had a nuisance trip yet. Knock on wood!

 

[Norcal]

IANACL (I am not a code lawyer), but I have heard that there is an exception to the GFCI garage requirement for refrigerators and freezers. Single outlet (no duplex).

That went bye bye years ago, ALL garage receptacles (120V) must have GFCI protection.

 

[Cmreschke]

I was just being sarcastic with my questions. I know the requirements. Thought the silliness of my questions might let yall know I was kidding.

 

[Zeke]

When it says "Receptacle req. when this peninsula dimension is bigger than 24""
is it referring to the receptacle shown at the end of the peninsula?

Thanks

Yes.

 

[acer66]

Yes.

Thanks for clearing that up.