GOOD Drill Bits on a Tight Budget?

[Hoopy Frood]

Howdy all!

I've been cutting my teeth drilling on 3/8" steel plate freehand for my startup, practice projects. I've been using good, vintage drills and mostly crappy or neglected (DeWalt black oxide) drill bits. I'm getting things done, but have had challenges along the way in spite of going slow and using cutting oil.

I'm on a very tight budget, but I think I'm bound to keep drilling on steel. The (literal) pain and suffering at the hands of your nominal harbor freight bits has led me to decide it's worth investing in quality bits. But I'm trying to keep it under $100 as much as I can.

Most of my drilling is probably going to be on 1/4"-1/2" mild steel, but there may be a small amount of hardened or stainless steel in there, too. I do not have (nor am likely to have) a drill press. So I need a bit that can handle a LITTLE bit of noob freehand SNAFUs. I'm not THAT bad, but I'm still learning and make mistakes from time to time.

I've been researching what might be good options for me and wonder what the GJ folks think. Given my budget and after a fair bit of research here is my top pick: Norseman 1/4" hex shank set from Harry Epstein:
https://www.harryepstein.com/index....ck-release-mechanic-length-bit-set-qr-12.html

The runner-up is this more-complete set from Triumph via Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000PSDNOM/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I love that the Norseman set is cheaper and recommended for hard metal applications. But in my Harbor Freight drilling misadventures I snapped a step drill bit off a 1/4" shank in the blink of an eye with my '68 Milwaukee heavy duty drill. I also dulled three HF bits over 3/8" diameter through poor workmanship. I was going as slow as possible (given there's no variable speed on my drills), and using GENEROUS amounts of cutting oil...

The HF bits were "HSS Steel" with titanium nitride coating. But side-by-side with a big box store equivalent DeWalt bits they were GARBAGE. The ones I didn't torture were fine, but I doubt they'd last more than a few holes under the best circumstances. I doubt big box store DeWalt is what I want either...

Either the Norseman or Triumph sets would be a huge improvement, but I'm worried the 1/4" shank on the Norseman compromises bit integrity. Yet the more expensive Triumph set has reviews that are less than flattering - especially if you are using them outside of a drill press. Some reviewers even suggest these are knock offs?

What does the GJ community think?

 

[Musicinabottle]

I've had exceptionally luck with ARTU bits. Roughly double the cost of say... Milwaukee bits but they sure do last way way way longer.

 

[LXCam]

Don't buy that Norseman set, it's ****. The dewalt coated ones (gold) will run circles around this recent batch of Norseman. Triumph are good but if you're drilling that much small plate I'd shoot for dormer HS, it'll drill cold rolled like butter but not hardened material.

 

[WWheeler]

I picked up a set of Dewalt cobalt bits 5-ish years ago and they have seen many a hole drilled in metals of all sorts and are all still kicking.

 

[Musicinabottle]

Not sure what bits are offered for regular drills by the fols that make mag drill bits, but if they did, they'd have to be awesome.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I've had exceptionally luck with ARTU bits. Roughly double the cost of say... Milwaukee bits but they sure do last way way way longer.

I'm not familiar with ARTU. I will definitely look into them! Thanks very much

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Don't buy that Norseman set, it's ****. The dewalt coated ones (gold) will run circles around this recent batch of Norseman. Triumph are good but if you're drilling that much small plate I'd shoot for dormer HS, it'll drill cold rolled like butter but not hardened material.

All of my fabrication work so far is off scrap I can scrounge for free. So I don't always know what I'm getting my hands on. It would be nice to be able to handle hardened material. But since that's going to be the exception, not the rule, I'll have to do some research into Dormer as well. I was not familiar with them at all. Thanks very much!

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I picked up a set of Dewalt cobalt bits 5-ish years ago and they have seen many a hole drilled in metals of all sorts and are all still kicking.

I had heard cobalt might be a good choice. I had the nominal HSS/titanium nitride DeWalt bits (and some of their black oxide). I'm pretty sure both there HSS not cobalt. I don't know what the bit angle was on either of them, but they both ran rings around the basic HF stuff (when they were in good shape). I'll do some more looking into DeWalt cobalt, too.

So many good suggestions! Thanks, all!

 

[Musicinabottle]

I'm not familiar with ARTU. I will definitely look into them! Thanks very much

They look like percussion masonry bits, but I've drilled lengthwise through roll pins, through thick cast iron and even a few knife blades with them. Knife blades were a challenge, but they'll do it.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

They look like percussion masonry bits, but I've drilled lengthwise through roll pins, through thick cast iron and even a few knife blades with them. Knife blades were a challenge, but they'll do it.

WOW! Cool. Thanks for the info! That might be the ticket. The trick is always finding something in your budget though, huh?

 

[Musicinabottle]

WOW! Cool. Thanks for the info! That might be the ticket. The trick is always finding something in your budget though, huh?

I hear you there. I use lots of oil and drill slowly to make my bits last as long as I can.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Don't waste your time with quick chuck bits. The bit is not kept stable enough IME, and it works against you. I've had them spin the bit relative to the quick chuck when they stick, which means the whole bit is junk.


I'm normally pretty open to brand/COO, but for drill bits: USA made (preferably union USA made) HSS bits are all fine. There's only a few brands, so I normally shop around. I get moly coated bits in the sub-1/4 sizes, helps a lot when you're beating the **** out of a bit running it at the wrong speed/pressure/angle.

 

[Wamsutta]

After you've tried every drill bit imaginable and are pulling your hair out, one option is to try the very best:

http://www.ctddrill.com/

 

[jeffmoss26]

CTD is the same company as Norseman.

 

[Wamsutta]

I don't know about that for sure. All I know is the automotive machinists use CTD to drill out broken grade 8 bolts.

 

[Ign]

Hertel from MSC

 

[ssdave]

My opinion, here's the best value in bits available; scroll down to the bottom for sets:

http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/HS-Jobber-Drills---Cobalt/1130.html

I've bought a lot of bits from them. Have worked great.

Long term, your best investment will be in a drill press and in good variable speed drills, so that you can vary the drill speed to tailor your bit surface speed to the size of bit your using and the material being drilled.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Learn to sharpen drill bits.

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

Yeah a drill press really is the tool for steel. Even average bits are fine with a press.

 

[James-W]

Really good quality drill bits are not cheap, especially in larger sizes. But good drill bits last a long time and they tend to stay sharp a lot longer.

 

[Wamsutta]

Learn to sharpen drill bits.

I've had a broken grease fitting laugh at a brand new DeWalt bit. I had to go with a solid carbide bit in that instance.

 

[d.mcfarland]

I think that you're going to keep wrecking bits (good or bad ones) if you're drilling unknown metal.

I did a little experiment and the Dewalt home depot specials did the same as the HSS USA made ones when I was drilling a hardened metal with cutting oil.

Personally, if I were you I'd keep using the cheap ones because you're going to be replacing them just as often as the more expensive ones.

 

[jonesg]

Learn to sharpen drill bits.

That.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I think that you're going to keep wrecking bits (good or bad ones) if you're drilling unknown metal.

I did a little experiment and the Dewalt home depot specials did the same as the HSS USA made ones when I was drilling a hardened metal with cutting oil.

Personally, if I were you I'd keep using the cheap ones because you're going to be replacing them just as often as the more expensive ones.

I find technique is something a lot of people are missing. It's all about down pressure, rpm just chews up bits. It's fairly common for me to get curly cues of whatever steel I'm drilling at work, assuming I can actually have it in a vice and drill it out properly.

 

[cvairwerks]

Something else for those that are on budgets... don’t buy a set, buy what sizes you actually need for the work you are doing. You can buy a quantity of your most used sizes, from a quality manufacturer for less money usually, than an index with sizes you have no need for.
I typically use # 50, 40, 30, 20, 11 and 10’s in quantity. I buy bulk packs of those specific bits from a good manufacturer and keep a quantity of them on the shelf. Any other sizes that I end up needing, I either order in, or run to the hardware store to get. I don’t have an index and really see no need for one.

 

[6PTsocket]

I picked up a set of Dewalt cobalt bits 5-ish years ago and they have seen many a hole drilled in metals of all sorts and are all still kicking.

I love cobalt bits for hard stuff but the tradeoff is that they are brittle and expensive. Drilling smaller sizes freehand might result in some breakage.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[d.mcfarland]

I find technique is something a lot of people are missing. It's all about down pressure, rpm just chews up bits. It's fairly common for me to get curly cues of whatever steel I'm drilling at work, assuming I can actually have it in a vice and drill it out properly.

Very true. For some reason I am picturing the OP drilling thick steel while holding it in strange positions. The vice is the key to a lot of problems I've ran into.

 

[tarbellb]

Chicago Latrobe, Greenfield, Cleveland, Triumph, Norseman, CTD, Viking, Guhring, Dormer.

Some excellent deals on the almighty Amazon.

Like this- Warehouse deal -

Chicago Latrobe 150ASP Series High-Speed Steel Jobber Length Drill Bit Set with Metal Case, Heavy Duty, Black Oxide Finish, 135 Degree Split Point, Inch, 15-piece, 1/16" - 1/2" in 1/32" increments
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000LEUDM0/?ie=UTF8&condition=all

 

[Tallpilot]

Try some Milwaukee Cobalt and go slow with moderate pressure. Having one of those alignment guides helps quite a bit with hand drilling steel.

 

[xela456]

I work in a field where drill bits are not hard to come by. That being said for me to buy bits I think the Milwaukee thunderbolt bits (black ones) perform very well, even better are the impact rated bits. I had the same 3/16 impact bit for probably 200 holes in 1/4 inch a36. It helps to be familiar with drilling, I remember my first job with stainless I burned up like an entire index! Not any more

 

[Ign]

Learn to sharpen drill bits.

This really is the only answer long term.

Teach a man to fish.....

 

[anndel]

This really is the only answer long term.

Teach a man to fish.....

I've used a Drill Doctor to sharpen 30 year old bits and they came out like new, sharper than some USA-made Montana bits.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I've used a Drill Doctor to sharpen 30 year old bits and they came out like new, sharper than some USA-made Montana bits.

I only have luck sharpening (drill doctor or grinder) on 1/4 and above. 3/16 and below I consider straight consumables. Dull? Toss it, at 27 my eyes aren't going to see well enough to tell if it's sharpened.

 

[timmyisme22]

Hertel from MSC

I concur on Hertel. Good make and lasts through plenty of mild steel. If you do buy anything from MSC, always check for the daily percentage off and the monthly fliers. If you're needing a wide variety for tapping, save and spend the $230 (flyer prices before percentage off, usually 20%). Getting extras here and there in the most used (1/4 and 3/8 and the like) would get you by with needing to get a job done if a bit gets worn.

I also say, get good at sharpening your bits on a grinder. If you get good, won't need more than a slight touch up here and there.

 

[genkinyc]

I recently did the same research and contacted Norseman. They were very helpful.

I am a novice so only repeating the info that Norseman gave me.

This set is mechanics length, a little shorter and recommended for hand drilling applications. It also has the 3 flat sides that help prevent slipping when using a hand dill chuck. It is their hardest steel set.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CZH2SK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I used them to drill through 316 Stainless with Tap Magic and a portable milescraft drill press along with a M18 1/2 Drill.

It worked out great and I highly recommend the drill set.

 

[BFBOB]

I only have luck sharpening (drill doctor or grinder) on 1/4 and above. 3/16 and below I consider straight consumables. Dull? Toss it, at 27 my eyes aren't going to see well enough to tell if it's sharpened.

Did you mean 72??
If not, I'm waaaay beyond hope!

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Holy HELL, folks! That was a tidal wave of great information!

I had a few brutal days' work so I've been offline. Apologies for the delayed follow up. I fear I may have to write like 20 replies!

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Did you mean 72??
If not, I'm waaaay beyond hope!

Im a 1990 vintage, at 27 age is already catching up.

I laugh watching g AVE videos when he yells at the camera to focus, I swear my eyes are like that.

 

[stioc]

I seriously didn't expect these to cut as well as they do (I use these for metal only as they have the correct split point angle) and I've used all kinds of fancy coatings/titanium/cobalt etc drill bits in the past.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EYU5N8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

For $20 I feel like it's one of the best items I've bought.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

So much to address!

DRILL PRESS:
I have no place to store one, let alone have a place to use one. I don't have the money for one, though I'd plan to save for one IF those first two problems were solved.

I have no shop, no garage. I have a storage shed only and I have to setup an outdoor work "shop" anytime I want to do anything. It's all based on saw horses, planks and a couple work benches: one a vintage Craftsman Workmate the other a cheap, crappy knock off. If I have my table saw out it often does as much work as a table as it does as a saw.

All that to say I'm not ignoring the recommendations for a drill press. I quite agree with them, it's just not possible at this point. Hence I'm stuck free hand drilling. And a quick note: obviously using a vise goes a long way to aid in drilling... the problem is I was drilling holes in my mobile metal worktop (3/8" steel plate on a 3" C-channel "foundation") in order to INSTALL my first vise. That is the project where I snapped the step bit and dulled the HF bits. BUT I GOT THE JOB DONE!


LEARN TO SHARPEN BITS:
For the many, many recommendations towards learning to sharpen bits... message received. However I have no bench grinder as (until recently) I had no bench. Learning to sharpen is an obvious necessity (I already have to sharpen knives, chainsaw chains, etc). But it can't be solved immediately given the constraints that make having a drill press impossible (for the time being). But I WILL get there. In the interim I need some good bits. Maybe I can practice sharpening the bits I've already dulled? I've just been doing it by hand (on spade bits and augers) with various files.

TECHNIQUE:
Seeing as how I've never had the combination of a good drill and good bits at the same time to practice on I'm sure my technique is lacking. It's not horrible, just really slow.

To get the three 7/16" holes in my 3/8" mild steel tabletop I started with a 1/8" pilot hole then drilled out with the HF bits (118 deg tip, HSS, TiN coated) in 1/64" increments. So each "hole" was drilled 20 times. I used a LOT of cutting oil. A wasteful amount probably. Only saw puffs of smoke 2 or 3 times in the whole process. As much drilling as I did with those HF bits cutting in increments any bigger than 1/64" would have ruined the bits in short order. They really are AWFUL (more on that later).

My drill (1968 Milwaukee heavy duty S-114G named Ol' Painless) spins at 1900 RPM and is NOT variable speed. Full load can drop it down to 1100 RPM, but that's the slowest it will go. Even going in just 1/64" steps I seized the bit (say around 13/32" size) twice. (I had also seized it twice on an earlier practice hole). *It was a VERY awkward drilling position.* The beating I took from those experiences taught me I did not want to apply hardly any pressure. I did NOT want a "misstep" to cause me great injury. This drill has no way to mount a side handle to it. I've heard horror stories about heavy duty drill injuries...



So going slow (RPM) was not possible and the more pressure I'd apply the more I was committing my body to being in in the way of the marauding Ol' Painless if something went wrong. Because of the awkward drilling position I figured something WAS bound to go wrong at some point. Good to know my instincts were right

A friend has offered me a Milwaukee heavy duty 1/2" low-speed drill with variable speed control for $50. It DOES have a side handle. I have a feeling that is A good answer. But my S-114G (a 1/4" drill that I converted to 1/2") already scares the hell out of me with it's torque. Is getting a more powerful drill REALLY the best answer? I'm still on the fence about this... if variable speed will increase the safety of cutting more than the increase in power diminishes safety in the same operation, I suppose it's the right choice.

The last development along these lines is I got the vise mounted to the workbench! So now I DO have a vise to work with, although I haven't had a chance to use it for drilling yet.


I really did learn a lot in spite of my short comings in those drilling sessions. You can definitely feel the difference between good cutting and "problem." Practice is required and will be had... Now that I have a vise I'll be MUCH more comfortable and able to safely apply pressure. Though I've never found a 1/16" bit I didn't snap (in spite of always trying NOT to, but failing) so it's not like I use NO pressure

DRILL BITS:
I compared the brand new HF 1/8" bit above to a Home Depot DeWalt equivalent with the only difference being manufacturer and the DW had a 135 deg tip instead of the HF 118 degree. The DW bit went through that 3/8" plate like it was butter with my light duty drill. The HF never worked well and became completely dulled in short order. So obviously a bad set of bits can impair someone even as unskilled as I am.

Cobalt:
Highly recommended by many. Great for hard materials. Brittle. Without a variable speed hand drill I'd be concerned with the risk of shearing the bit if the drill bound up (although the upside is the drill kills the bit, not ME). Also, while I think cobalt can cut mild steel just fine, am I correct in understanding it isn't designed for softer materials? If 90% minimum of my drilling is in mild steel, wouldn't it make the most sense to get bits optimized for that, then solved the cases of drilling in hardened or stainless steel (or cast iron) on a case-by-case basis?

ARTU:
I found these:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006CV1ZZ0/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I'm a little put off by the warning: "Not recommended for use on soft metals: e.g. Angle Iron, galvanized pipe, stainless steel". I also would be concerned with the shearing risk similar to the cobalt type...

HS(S):
It sounds like this would be a good general purpose bit material choice given that most of what I'm doing will be in mild steel. So USA made with molybdenum or gold oxide coating might be the best coatings for the same reason?

Length:
Since free hand work is definitely what's in my near term future, I think mechanic's length is what I would like, though it seems to limit my choices. Oh well, maybe that's a good thing?

Victornet does not give you a choice in coating, it seems (you may get black oxide or nothing but bright). So I think I'll hold off on those until I get a little more practice in. But I really like their custom "set" ordering interface. By far the best one I have seen online (so far).

Hertel bit sets are WAY out of my price range. And choices are VERY limited on what you can buy individually, especially with smaller bits. I'll definitely keep them in mind once I learn better what I'm doing and can pick and chose which sizes I'll actually need! But I do know I need good 1/8, 1/4, 3/8 bits at least...

... So I took WAY too long to price out individual items... I really liked the sound of what @genkinyc suggested (the Norseman high-moly mechanics length set with gold oxide coating):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CZH2SK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

But the point is well taken that do you actually NEED a 29 piece set for the homestead? I needed one when it came to crappy, shallow-tipped HF bits, sure. But if these actually can cut, why not start with a basic set and add to it as needed? I'm just building random homestead stuff out of scrap metal after all.

So through Harry Epstein's I can put together a 7-piece set (1/8" to 1/2" in 1/16" increments) for $42 including shipping. That's half the price of the full set on Amazon (of course is only 25% of the number of bits, too, but oh well).

With the money I would save save doing that I thought I could order a small "set" of Hertel HSS (with TiN coating) bits from MSC: 1/8", 3/16", and 1/4" Only $10 for the three (nice!) bits! But MSC wants $13 to ship them... That's pretty lame as you could mail them for like $2. So maybe I won't buy the Hertel's yet...

So $42 is well under the $100 mark I set. And I could order individual Hertel cobalt (or even carbide) bits from MSC when the day comes that I need to do that.

Thank you again all for the information! I have (as always) learned a LOT. Someday I hope I may have learned enough to actually help someone rather than always be the one asking questions.

Progress everyday!