Good high end MIG?

[MoonRise]

Thanks MoonRise.

I always use my angle grinder to prep the metal down to shiny metal. I was still getting initial popcorn arcs before itd sizzle.

I am sometimes getting a little ball at the end of my wire between use. I clipped that off and got a bacon sizzle arc right off the bat. Is that what the burn back feature takes care of on some machines?

Nope, the little ball at the end of the electrode wire is just a little ball of formerly molten metal still stuck on the end of the electrode wire.

And yes, snipping/clipping that metal ball off of the electrode and leaving just a clean (and small physical size ) end of the electrode certainly can help with arc restarts.

 

[kazlx]

It's all the small things like that, that make your welds more consistent and more visually appealing. Can you just burn that blob in on the next start? Sure, but it will look like ****.

 

[doojus]

Did OP did the 252? I don't understand what's going on here. Were the beads from his old welder?

 

[Fender1325]

OP here. The beads are from my Hobart Handler 140 - although I recently got gas (have been doing flux core for the past 7 months.

Im trying to decide on my next machine and have narrowed it down to the miller 252 vs the lincoln 256 and as of right now Im leaning towards the lincoln.

 

[Fender1325]

Nope, the little ball at the end of the electrode wire is just a little ball of formerly molten metal still stuck on the end of the electrode wire.

And yes, snipping/clipping that metal ball off of the electrode and leaving just a clean (and small physical size ) end of the electrode certainly can help with arc restarts.

What does the burn back feature do then?

 

[sberry]

Those beads don't look all that bad.

 

[zkling]

What does the burn back feature do then?

It keeps power going to the weld circuit while terminating the wire feed. If you keep getting large balls on the end of your wire, you need to up your wire speed for the given voltage. Don't be afraid to tweak the door guide settings. Those are just recommendations, not optimized.

 

[Fender1325]

Those beads don't look all that bad.

Those must be somebody elses - too nice to be mine!

 

[MoonRise]

What does the burn back feature do then?

It keeps power going to the weld circuit while terminating the wire feed. If you keep getting large balls on the end of your wire, you need to up your wire speed for the given voltage. Don't be afraid to tweak the door guide settings. Those are just recommendations, not optimized.

The 'good' burnback helps keep the wire electrode from staying stuck in the now solidified weld puddle when you stop welding (let go of the trigger). Like zkling said, it keeps the power going to the wire electrode for a very tiny bit of time while stopping the wire feed.

The 'bad' burnback is when the arc 'climbs' the wire while you are welding and melts/fuses the electrode to the contact tip. Which usually means that you have to stop and replace the now ruined contact tip. One cause of 'bad' burnbacks is holding too small of a CTWD. Another is erratic wire feeding from drive roll problems (too tight, too loose), liner problems (dirty liner, kinked liner, worn out liner), bending the gun cable in too tight of a radius and thus 'jamming' the wire electrode in the liner temporarily and/or intermittently, etc.

Some info and troubleshooting tips:

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/Basic-tips-on-MIG-GMAW-troubleshooting-from-Miller/

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...heory/Pages/mig-problems-remedies-detail.aspx

 

[justanengineer]

Im trying to decide on my next machine and have narrowed it down to the miller 252 vs the lincoln 256 and as of right now Im leaning towards the lincoln.

JMO, but for MIG I wouldnt want either. I bought another MM200 a few months ago after giving my previous one to my father. I paid $700 for each, both in excellent condition, and the latest one has the optional spot welding panel AND a brandy new Burnerd whip and gun. For the money you cant go wrong, theyre dirt cheap, very common (most popular Miller MIG ever sold according to several folks), and there is very little to ever go wrong with them vs the new electronics.

FWIW, zlking made an excellent point with suggesting TIG. MIG's a royal PITA to learn to make quality welds with. Yes, its easy to blue-glue everything but for quality its probably the most difficult process to learn simply bc of the speed involved, which is why schools teach it last. TIG can be as fast or slow as you want which makes it easier/faster to pick up and gives a consistently higher quality, add a production feeder and itll also outperform MIG for speed in many situations. In the home shop its also extremely clean with much less spatter. The only reason I own a MIG anymore was bc I tore my TIG/Stick machine apart and needed a welder.

 

[trackwelder]

JMO, but for MIG I wouldnt want either. I bought another MM200 a few months ago after giving my previous one to my father. I paid $700 for each, both in excellent condition, and the latest one has the optional spot welding panel AND a brandy new Burnerd whip and gun. For the money you cant go wrong, theyre dirt cheap, very common (most popular Miller MIG ever sold according to several folks), and there is very little to ever go wrong with them vs the new electronics.

FWIW, zlking made an excellent point with suggesting TIG. MIG's a royal PITA to learn to make quality welds with. Yes, its easy to blue-glue everything but for quality its probably the most difficult process to learn simply bc of the speed involved, which is why schools teach it last. TIG can be as fast or slow as you want which makes it easier/faster to pick up and gives a consistently higher quality, add a production feeder and itll also outperform MIG for speed in many situations. In the home shop its also extremely clean with much less spatter. The only reason I own a MIG anymore was bc I tore my TIG/Stick machine apart and needed a welder.

I agree that the mm200 is the best 250 amp class welder ever made...I have three of them.

How will adding a feeder to a Tig power source outperform a MIG ?
I bet in the last 5 years my TIG has been used maybe six,seven times. Usually because I ran out of wire or it was a part that was super thin. For the average guy here a MIG machine is the way to go. Not screwing around with grinding tungsten, and all the nonsense TIG requires. Just grab a gun, set your parameters and get the job done. Take the time you saved and do something else.

 

[justanengineer]

How will adding a feeder to a Tig power source outperform a MIG ?
I bet in the last 5 years my TIG has been used maybe six,seven times. Usually because I ran out of wire or it was a part that was super thin. For the average guy here a MIG machine is the way to go. Not screwing around with grinding tungsten, and all the nonsense TIG requires. Just grab a gun, set your parameters and get the job done. Take the time you saved and do something else.

As shown to me by one of our suppliers at work (credit where its due), a TIG w/a feeder is basically a MIG with independent heat and filler controls, so if youve got a fixture with a combination of thin and thick or tiny and heavy parts you dont have to stop to change settings or compromise too much, just start in and get the job done.

 

[sberry]

I got a tig, makes a super stand for a mig. The torch argon hose finally gave it up with no more fix a few yrs ago. Rotted from old age and lack of use. No sense in having something that doesn't work so after a couple yrs we figure maybe we might need it, I find some hose, been 5 more yrs, havnt used it since.
I would trade the red one for a 200, it has low hrs.

 

[trackwelder]

As shown to me by one of our suppliers at work (credit where its due), a TIG w/a feeder is basically a MIG with independent heat and filler controls, so if youve got a fixture with a combination of thin and thick or tiny and heavy parts you dont have to stop to change settings or compromise too much, just start in and get the job done.

Basically using the power source to run a wire feeder. You still need to adjust the heat and wire speed to the material being welded. Is this correct?

 

[sberry]

I got a tig, makes a super stand for a mig. The torch argon hose finally gave it up with no more fix a few yrs ago. Rotted from old age and lack of use. No sense in having something that doesn't work so after a couple yrs we figure maybe we might need it, I find some hose, been 5 more yrs, havnt used it since.

 

[sberry]

Lincoln made a lot of these for a longtime, still do, its a 180 at a box store now but you rarely see one for sale. People that got them use them and keepem. Lots of 120 models for sale from guys moved to these.
I got them all, can use them all and after 35+ yrs this is what I reach for if its possible.

 

[dr_clyde]

As shown to me by one of our suppliers at work (credit where its due), a TIG w/a feeder is basically a MIG with independent heat and filler controls, so if youve got a fixture with a combination of thin and thick or tiny and heavy parts you dont have to stop to change settings or compromise too much, just start in and get the job done.

This is not the case. A mig welder transfers the current through the filler, while a TIG has a separate electrode. The fundamentals of each process are very different, and have different effects on the weld and base metals. Calling it basically a mig really isn't true.

What you probably have is a TIG welder with a cold wire feeder. This simply automates the addition to filler to make it faster/more consistsent. It doesn't make it a mig. There are more differences than just how the wire is added.

 

[trackwelder]

This is not the case. A mig welder transfers the current through the filler, while a TIG has a separate electrode. The fundamentals of each process are very different, and have different effects on the weld and base metals. Calling it basically a mig really isn't true.

What you probably have is a TIG welder with a cold wire feeder. This simply automates the addition to filler to make it faster/more consistsent. It doesn't make it a mig. There are more differences than just how the wire is added.

I remember seeing one of those at a trade show. They were about the same price as the inverter welder.

 

[zkling]

Are you talking about dabber welders? I've spent a few hours under the hood with them. Basically it was just a automated filler dabbing as you would when manually welding, but being fed automatically from a spool of essentially mig wire. They are typically used for high build up weldments on worn parts to be re-machined. You are still modulating the arc remotely though.

 

[doojus]

With all of the multiprocess machines out there that are just an inverter power source (invertec 350, miller xmt, etc) and either stick welding leads for stick or a spool feed and a mig gun for mig welding, it seems like you should be able to do the same thing with a tig welder too. It's basically just a power source. I've been looking at mig to compliment the tig i already have but if I could just get a wire feed and a gun to do mig that'd be sweet.

 

[Beefbuzz]

I have used about every welder discussed in this thread. I own blue and prefer my dynasty for TIG. For MIG, it pains me to admit I like the 256 better than the 252. I prefer knobs and switches and easy access to things like the spot timer are really nice. It also seems to be better when trying to achieve MIG like TIG results, some claim it is because the inductance is different. The drive unit is bit more hefty as well. You can't really go wrong but my money would be on the 256, and I still plan to get one some day and just pretend it's blue.

 

[sberry]

I heard the red one is pretty good. I doubt its night and day. To tell the truth I might jump back to a Hobart on this one, the 230 is a lot cheaper. Lot less stuff on it.

 

[MagnumForce]

Millermatic 251 or 252. You absolutely cannot go wrong with these bulletproof pieces of machinery.

 

[Fender1325]

Beefbuzz im with ya. Plus it has an outlet built in for a grinder. Not a dealbreaker but nonetheless nice. The lincolns wire feed units seem just a little beefier (although both have metal teeth gearing them), and the knobs on the lincoln felt a little less like they were going to break.

 

[justanengineer]

This is not the case. A mig welder transfers the current through the filler, while a TIG has a separate electrode. The fundamentals of each process are very different, and have different effects on the weld and base metals. Calling it basically a mig really isn't true.

What you probably have is a TIG welder with a cold wire feeder. This simply automates the addition to filler to make it faster/more consistsent. It doesn't make it a mig. There are more differences than just how the wire is added.

I appreciate the correction, never gave the slight difference in process much thought but could see it having an effect.

 

[MagnumForce]

Way more than slight.

 

[Fender1325]

So after about 4 days of using gas my regulator broke. Hobart was nice on the phone and has a new one heading out to me under warranty, but it does set me back 3 days now without that.

Does everybody just close the bottle, shut off the machine, but leave it pressurized (as opposed to bleeding it all out at the end of use?)

Either thats wrong or the regulator is just a chinese special.

 

[doojus]

I turn off the gas and purge the line when I'm done.

I'd assume most of what comes with a hobart is chinese special these days. Part of the "buy american" farce.

 

[sberry]

I just close the bottle.

 

[kazlx]

IMO worth spending the money on a nice flowmeter.

 

[sberry]

I have used the cheap meters for a long time. As best as I can recall the only one I had a problem with has been a hi dollar flow meter.

 

[dr_clyde]

I have Smith, Victor and Harris flowmeters. The only one that has given me trouble is the Harris. The high pressure gauge sticks sometimes.

A smith flowmeter has been my go to.

 

[Fender1325]

I dont want to buy an aftermarket regulator I just want what I have to work. Is leaving the system pressurized a bad practice or no?

 

[Fender1325]

Every damn thing I buy these days is make believe. The Hobart is a nice machine for a 110 unit. Its made in Ohio AFAIK. But really, every time I buy something these days its like you have to spend the premium just to get it to do WHAT ITS SUPPOSED TO DO!!!!!! I had that regulator on the machine just 4 days! Hobart is covering me yes, but damn it.

Even the $2400 miller 252 felt cheap (the pots on the knobs, the plastic box you open to read suggested settings). You have to be rich just to do simple work with a good tool these days. /rant

 

[dr_clyde]

I leave my regs pressurized. I just shut the valve on the cylinder.

 

[mike13u]

I leave my regs pressurized. I just shut the valve on the cylinder.

^^^This.

 

[doojus]

I leave my regs pressurized. I just shut the valve on the cylinder.

^^^This.

Do they bleed down overnight or stay pressurized?

 

[Fender1325]

Mine started to bleed down after a couple days but I think that was it failing

 

[dr_clyde]

It depends on the machine and how tight all the fittings are. Some will show pressure for weeks, others will bleed down over a few hours.

 

[Tinner]

Every damn thing I buy these days is make believe. The Hobart is a nice machine for a 110 unit. Its made in Ohio AFAIK. But really, every time I buy something these days its like you have to spend the premium just to get it to do WHAT ITS SUPPOSED TO DO!!!!!! I had that regulator on the machine just 4 days! Hobart is covering me yes, but damn it.

Even the $2400 miller 252 felt cheap (the pots on the knobs, the plastic box you open to read suggested settings). You have to be rich just to do simple work with a good tool these days. /rant

The Miller 252 is the entry level to true industrial machines. For 20% of that price you get a toy.