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Good high end MIG?

csp

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Mine bleeds down in a matter of seconds after closing the valve. Obviously losing some gas when it's pressurized as well. I plan on swapping regulators with another welder as part of the process of elimination. The hose will retain pressure.
 
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mike13u

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Do they bleed down overnight or stay pressurized?

I dont notice to be honest. I come in the next morning and turn the bottle on and go.
But whats the point of clearing the line of inert gas anyway? Its not Acetylene or anything volatile. To clear the line just seams like a waste of the gas you pay for. But, like the others have said, it probably slowly drains anyway. :beer:
 

doojus

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Mine bleeds down in a matter of seconds after closing the valve. Obviously losing some gas when it's pressurized as well. I plan on swapping regulators with another welder as part of the process of elimination. The hose will retain pressure.


Just tried it on mine and it did the same thing. It's an HTP flowmeter which seems quality so I assume the leak is somewhere in my welder :dunno:
 
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Fender1325

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Hobart claimed my regulator would be here thursday when I called to warranty it monday. Never came. I called back today and was told oh it wasnt in stock but we just got it and itll be shipped out next week. Project set back again. I wished they told me it was out of stock from the beginning and maybe given me a chance to buy a replacement locally and reimburse me.
Makes it easier to choose Lincoln for me.
 
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Fender1325

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For whatever its worth, I spotted a Millermatic 252 in the shop tour for the ICON brand cars. If you dont know about them look into any of their builds on youtube. Incredible stuff.

(millers at 6:33)

I suggest checking out the video of the 1948 ICON Buick Super Derelict
 

TheEquineFencer

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Ive owned my Hobart Handler 140 for about 7 months now and I feel I'm wanting to step up into a 220v machine. The hobart has been a great machine, no real complaints for what it is.

What I'm looking to do is buy "the last MIG I'll ever need" type machine (I have a feeling I'll eat those words regardless of what I choose).

I'm interested in the Millermatic 252. Seems to get good reviews and is strong enough to handle pretty much anything I'll throw at it. (auto restoration, and fabrication like tables, chairs, etc.) I prefer to buy a little more machine than I need so I'm rarely pushing it to the limit. I see the 252 does up to 1/2" steel which I cant imagine encountering.

I'm also open to suggestions like ESAB, Lincoln.

Thoughts?

252 with a spool gun, I like it as well as the ESAB 250 I had in the shop if not better.
 

Magnet

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MM250 or Lincoln Power Mig 216.

I'm in a similar position to Fender but with a very limited choice. It came down to the MM250 or the Lincoln Power Mig 216.

I want it for home project work so the max it will see is 5mm steel, rarely, with the rest being in the car panel to 3mm box range. I also hope to be able to try my hand at welding aluminium and stainless. I should add that I haven't welded in decades so it'll be like starting from scratch.

The Miller was priced at a staggering US$1200 more than the Lincoln. Recent events have taken a turn and the suppliers of the Miller have very nearly written themselves out of the picture, so much so that I'm leaning heavily towards the Lincoln.

So how do guys rate these to machines. And in particular will the Power Mig 216 be a good purchase for me?
 

doojus

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Except for a few rare cases it's basically down to whether you like red or blue more. Personally I like red but that's just me :)
 

BigMike782

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Re: MM250 or Lincoln Power Mig 216.

I'm in a similar position to Fender but with a very limited choice. It came down to the MM250 or the Lincoln Power Mig 216.

I want it for home project work so the max it will see is 5mm steel, rarely, with the rest being in the car panel to 3mm box range. I also hope to be able to try my hand at welding aluminium and stainless. I should add that I haven't welded in decades so it'll be like starting from scratch.

The Miller was priced at a staggering US$1200 more than the Lincoln. Recent events have taken a turn and the suppliers of the Miller have very nearly written themselves out of the picture, so much so that I'm leaning heavily towards the Lincoln.

So how do guys rate these to machines. And in particular will the Power Mig 216 be a good purchase for me?

You are comparing a 15 yr old 250 amp machine against a current model 210 amp machine:dunno:
 
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Fender1325

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Its kind of funny, the majority of people out there seem to be miller users. I dont know if they just spend more marketing dollars or what. Inside, in terms of wire feed mechanisms and overall build quality looks to be basically on par with my hobart (a $500 machine). I even like the blue paint better. But honestly, lincoln seems to be better built. More tension on the knobs, the wire feed mechanism looks stronger and heavier duty and chalk this up however you want to.....the lincoln weighs 40 pounds more than the miller. What comes up in my mind is that copper weighs more than aluminum. Perhaps theres more copper being used in the lincoln?
 

doojus

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But honestly, lincoln seems to be better built.

That's the impression I got too, of course saying that to a miller user would be heresy


To be fair I think on the higher end machines (350 migs, Dyntasty, XMT) the build quality is more comparable between the two companies.
 
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Magnet

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Re: MM250 or Lincoln Power Mig 216.

You are comparing a 15 yr old 250 amp machine against a current model 210 amp machine:dunno:

Unfortunately I was only offered three choices, the third being the Chinese Riland Power Mig 200G.

Is the Lincoln Power Mig 216 a good machine. Any owner reviews?
 

sberry

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If I was welding real steel and paying men then the larger machine is a no brainer. I am not so familiar with the new Lincs but "I believe" the 216 is like the MM210 of old. It might be more robust than the 212 Miller has now, its basically a hyped 200 class that holds a full spool.
If a guy is welding a lot it saves a quite a bit on material. A guy puts more on with a bigger machine if he isn't disciplined but with engineered work the labor is 1/2 with a 250 over a 211 and the materials are half as much.
 

pi_guy

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Its kind of funny, the majority of people out there seem to be miller users. I dont know if they just spend more marketing dollars or what.

Bought my first Miller about 1978, it still works in an active shop.
Have bought a few other Miller since then and they all work fine.
Could it be they have a better product & not just a marketing trick....
 
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Fender1325

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Bought my first Miller about 1978, it still works in an active shop.
Have bought a few other Miller since then and they all work fine.
Could it be they have a better product & not just a marketing trick....

Im certainly open to that. But I dont want the impression of products built decades ago to influence my decision. Back then a lot of tools were built better Id bet.

I have not used either 252 or 256 so I really cant say, but just the feel in the store makes me lean towards lincoln
 

sberry

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There are several things about welding companies that are unique but the vendors are cutthroat and deals are similar to cars more than not. They are made so good and last so long the problems are few,,, (there is more to this) and there are consumables for decades. The machine maker has made some money but this has kept quality up and allowed for innovation.
They have been very competitive and even though they make a few $ its not obscene and everyone gets a deal. The pressure is really coming as we speak, some thru real tech innovation in power management as well as some production cost savings, probably expect some more failure for a while.
As it was there were long lead test times on many models probably not as much on every generation of new ones. Look at MVP, Gonna be standard. I bet not so long they got a 2 speed portable air comp.
 

sberry

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Welding really fought hard not to stretch the truth with model numbers. When I bought a new little feeder in 92 or so it was dealer only and a SP130T which is now the box store version 180. They went to 175 first but its the same machine they been building since they introduce it, almost exact.
At one point it was probably a 155 too.
 

MarkG

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Nope, the little ball at the end of the electrode wire is just a little ball of formerly molten metal still stuck on the end of the electrode wire. :D

And yes, snipping/clipping that metal ball off of the electrode and leaving just a clean (and small physical size :D ) end of the electrode certainly can help with arc restarts. :thumbup:

Worked briefly at a place that specifically discouraged wire snipping for time/mess reasons. Instead, they had replaceable troughs under the front edges of the work tables for burning off the wire! It DID make it handy, faster, and eliminated little 'needles' everywhere, but it really doesn't work as nice as a freshly clipped end, IMHO and isn't as controllable either.
 

sberry

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Im certainly open to that. But I dont want the impression of products built decades ago to influence my decision. Back then a lot of tools were built better Id bet.
A lot or most companies could learn from these guys. They are all about build quality and don't fuk around. They have always been built well, are still built well while being astronomically cheaper in real dollars over the last 30 plus years.
Same model about 50$ more today at Home Depot than it was then at dealers only.
 

BigMike782

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I am biased toward Miller. World class company run by world class people that build world equipment.
Lincoln?......lawyers and whores walking hand in hand.
 
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Fender1325

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That makes about 24 votes for miller and about 2-3 for the lincoln. Hmmm. Haha
 

zmotorsports

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I typically run my feed lower that the charts suggest. They always seem too fast to get good burn in. Clean your metal. I snip the very tip of the wire before every start.

Same here. I go one step further and I keep a small spiral pocket notebook that I write down parameters for various thicknesses, joints, positions, etc and keep them handy. I can't always remember them off the top of my head so I when I hit the target on a specific joint/thickness/angle/etc I jot it down and have it for next time when I have a similar weld to perform. That way I have a pretty close setting if not spot on.


I don't use flap discs all that much, they're best for blending and deburring, IMO. If you want to bust mill scale, use a hard disc. If you're trying to move some metal, a 36 grit fiber disc will git-er-done.

Agreed. I use the flap disks for blending and a fiber disc for scale removal and or heavy metal removal when necessary.

Question -

If I grind down to clean metal, would my gas CFH setting effect how shiny and clean the weld itself looks? I believe I was set to roughly 21 but they werent as clean as I expected. A wire wheel afterwards made them nice but I figured I wouldnt need that whatsoever to get a shiny weld bead.

MIG welds are somewhat inherently dull anyways, not going to be shiny like the TIG process. If starting with properly prepped steel, voltage and wire speed set correctly for given thickness, joint and angle there should be no reason for any cleanup with a flap disc, wire brush or anything for that matter. It will just take some time and experience to get to that point. Don't get discouraged, just practice and take notes, mental or written to move you in the right direction.

When practicing that is the time to change things like voltage, wire speed, gun angle, travel speed, etc. Try to make only one change at a time and look for a better or worse condition, then move on to another change. When making too many changes at once it is hard to tell what exact change had the positive or negative impact on the end result.

Nope, the little ball at the end of the electrode wire is just a little ball of formerly molten metal still stuck on the end of the electrode wire. :D

And yes, snipping/clipping that metal ball off of the electrode and leaving just a clean (and small physical size :D ) end of the electrode certainly can help with arc restarts. :thumbup:

I like to snip the end off at a slight angle on thinner materials because that angled cut will assist in low amperage starts. It takes less current to melt a point tip due to the wire being snipped at an angle than a ball or radius at the end of the wire.

I know some companies frown upon such things but it usually comes down to mass product out the door, or clean and consistant stops and re-starts. Basically the end quality will be the determining factor. Large weldments where higher voltages and wire speeds are used are much less affected by the profile left on the end of the wire.

It's all the small things like that, that make your welds more consistent and more visually appealing. Can you just burn that blob in on the next start? Sure, but it will look like ****.

Exactly. Again, depends on material thickness and voltage/wire speed setting but on thinner materials this is correct.

OP here. The beads are from my Hobart Handler 140 - although I recently got gas (have been doing flux core for the past 7 months.

Im trying to decide on my next machine and have narrowed it down to the miller 252 vs the lincoln 256 and as of right now Im leaning towards the lincoln.

Personally, I don't think you can go wrong with either of those machines. I own the MM251 but have welded using the MM252 (same machine as MM251 just newer) and a Lincoln PowerMig 256, both weld great in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing.

I leave my regs pressurized. I just shut the valve on the cylinder.

Same here.

Do they bleed down overnight or stay pressurized?

Mine bleed down over a weeks time or so. I just give my connections a squirt or so with some soapy water once a year when I check them out to look for leaks. Sometimes sooner if I suspect an issue.

Mike.
 

sberry

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I use 1 wire in 2 sizes and 1 gas. 95% of the work is done with one simple tap machine with 3 settings, thin, med and thick with it sitting on thick unless there is a real compelling reason to turn it down because,,, I can handle the heat.
My little machine also likes a snip on small fussy stuff.
Its been moved. Its really where its sposed to be now, covers more area with less cord tangle.
 

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trackwelder

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I am a Miller man myself, but I really like Lincoln's engine drives. At work we are now getting 600 amp diesel air vantage machines....they are awesome!!!
 

doojus

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Mine bleed down over a weeks time or so. I just give my connections a squirt or so with some soapy water once a year when I check them out to look for leaks. Sometimes sooner if I suspect an issue.

Mike.

Is there something inside the welder that could be leaking too? I can't believe how fast I go thru argon and it seems like mine leaks bad enough to contribute to the speed at which I run through it.
 

trackwelder

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Is there something inside the welder that could be leaking too? I can't believe how fast I go thru argon and it seems like mine leaks bad enough to contribute to the speed at which I run through it.

Could very well be leaking inside. Shouldn't be much trouble to remove the outside convers and spray for leaks.
 

doojus

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Could very well be leaking inside. Shouldn't be much trouble to remove the outside convers and spray for leaks.

This is ******* me off now. Even my brand new power mig 350 leaks down pretty quick.

Are you guys putting teflon on your fittings?
 

zmotorsports

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Could very well be leaking inside. Shouldn't be much trouble to remove the outside convers and spray for leaks.

Agreed, it could be a fitting or connection inside the machine itself. Like trackwelder mentioned, remove covers and spray some soapy water on the connections until you find it. There should only be a couple of connections. Usually there is a bulkhead fitting at the back of the machine where the tank hose threads into the outside and a shorter hose threads to the inside and then over to the block or manifold that goes out to the gun.

This is ******* me off now. Even my brand new power mig 350 leaks down pretty quick.

Are you guys putting teflon on your fittings?

On the NPT threads, yes I put some sealant on them, on the tapered connections, no. They do not require it as they rely on the machined taper to seal using an interference fit.

Mike.
 

trackwelder

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This is ******* me off now. Even my brand new power mig 350 leaks down pretty quick.

Are you guys putting teflon on your fittings?

I'm more of a paste guy over using Teflon tape. I would use something only I fittings that leak. Check you stem nut on your gauge to the shielding gas tank. I have had tanks that leak at the valve threads no matter how tight the gauge was.
 

MagnumForce

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Locktite pipe dope instead of Teflon tape when I can do it. I think it's 565.
 
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csp

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I sprayed mine for leaks and there aren't any. All of the bleed down is exiting through the nozzle which tells me the valve that is only supposed to be open when the trigger is pulled isn't working correctly.

I took it apart looking for foreign matter that might make this happen, but there wasn't any. I might try to stretch the spring a bit before ordering a new valve. I think the seating surface is just worn as mine is an older machine (MM185) that's had a lot of welding time on it.
 
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