Goodman vs Amana

[Showkey]

^^^^ Some of the best advice yet here...

I've spent a large part of my life as a contractor and went into home inspection 15 years ago. I've seen thousands of different units at all ages in all conditions over the years. If I were going to air condition my dog house, I wouldn't use a Goodman unit even for that. Yes, they are a little better since being picked up by Carrier, who is also a mediocre company at best, but still the low end of the spectrum.

Don't know if Lennox equipment is available there but I wouldn't consider anything else for my own house.

Too bad Goodman is NOT part of carrier ...............do you inspect dog houses too ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodman_Global

 

[PearlWhiteGT]

There are situations where one uses a third party evaporator -- and it's fine. It still need to be fully compatible with the condenser for it to work correctly.

The older a system gets the ability to get the coils decreases -- The OP make be able to get the system to work with mismatch coil -- but it not going to perform ... especially in TX. And he was no happy with the system when it was thought to be fully operational.

There is nothing wrong with bare bones equipment. Properly sized and installed -- with proper ductwork they will run for a long time. Most systems are killed by bad ductwork.

The low ends systems = thinner metal cabinets -- few system protections -- little in the way of sound control. The use entry level parts.

All the companies maker builder grade systems -- some use partner names for the same product.

In texas you would be wise to do a load calculation. Make sure you have the correct size unit and that the ductwork is correct for what you need. It't better to have a cheap properly sized unit with correct ductwork vs a better unit with inadequate ductwork. The first example will perform better and last longer.

I'll get with my buddy to see if they originally did a load calc when the house was built. If they did do a load calc back then should I still get another done?

 

[yeldogt]

I'll get with my buddy to see if they originally did a load calc when the house was built. If they did do a load calc back then should I still get another done?

If a proper load calculation was done and nothing changed -- no need to do again. In many cases .. if not most .. people guess with the calculation and always guess bigger. Being in a hot part of the country -- have to make sure the unit works properly. Systems are often designed for the worst possible situation and become oversized. On extremely hot days the unit should almost never stop .. you should not design for a temp that only occurs once every 5 years. If you want to keep the house at 72 -- it's not the end of the world if one day every few years it's gets to 74 .. you will not die and the system will be sized for the majority of the time.

It's better to have a smaller unit running longer vs a big unit going on and off.

That's why the two speed units with variable speed interior fans make for comfortable -- they run long on more moderate temp and humid days using low speed. If you have humidity -- that's a driving factor in comfort -- removing humidity from space.

you can also do a run time and energy calculation based on climate and electric charge -- hours in the house.

 

[eddieK]

I don't know what it costs today, but you can expect R-22 to sky rocket over the next couple of years as it will likely be out of production by 2020.

I can NOT find any references that R-410 will be phased out in the foreseeable future.

R22 is being phased out because it MAY harm the atmosphere...R410a will be phased out because it DOES harm the atmosphere.

 

[eddieK]

That's my main concern is not having a matched coil for the R22 and the performance of it. Honestly the old level of performance was not that great in my opinion at times. System would run many hours before it would reach the temp I set the T-Stat at. But it would cool the house down. I didn't choose the AC system when it was bought. It was already installed in the house when I purchased it. Main reason of doing a full handler is to get the 5 year warranty on parts compared to a 1 year warranty on the coil. For just a few more $$$ I could get the new air handler.

Air delivery - air delivery - air delivery - air delivery

No matter what SEER or what type blower (Commutated or split capacitor) If the ducting is inadequate, you will not get the performance you want.

Also - most evaps and condenser coils are now aluminum. You can find copper tube aluminum fin coils and evaps controlled by a TXV instead of piston.

 

[Trey T]

I would pay the extra and go with a 24 seer IQ drive (I think they only sell them up to 20 Seer now). I did that for my house in South Florida and it was well worth it. My electric bill dropped over $100 per month from the old 12 seer unit and the separate humidity control allows you to run higher temps in the house and still stay comfortable.

And because it has an inverter compressor, there is no surge on start up making it generator friendly.

How much did you pay for the system?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Too bad Goodman is NOT part of carrier ...............do you inspect dog houses too ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodman_Global

Exactly.
I'd take goodman over carrier or any of its spin offs anyday.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

^^^^ Some of the best advice yet here...

I've spent a large part of my life as a contractor and went into home inspection 15 years ago. I've seen thousands of different units at all ages in all conditions over the years. If I were going to air condition my dog house, I wouldn't use a Goodman unit even for that. Yes, they are a little better since being picked up by Carrier, who is also a mediocre company at best, but still the low end of the spectrum. This is exemplified by all the contractors giving you quotes for a 3.5 ton unit and still no mention at all of a load calculation to determine proper sizing. Anyone giving you a quote without doing a load calculation first is automatically a bottom end contractor. (Pay less now, keep paying more year after year, for the life of the unit) But hey, electricity is free down there right?

What you have now is a builder's special, even with a new coil or air handler, it's still going to be a builders special, with a new kickstand. You're in Texas, running the system 9 months out of the year? A new system, sized & installed right, ducting checked/insulated/sealed throughout the house, could pay for itself in a few years.

Don't know if Lennox equipment is available there but I wouldn't consider anything else for my own house.

Home inspector,says it all right there for me anyway.
If I had a dollar for every legate code violation I've walked past over the years to fix some extremely minor thing a home inspector wrote up I'd be living on my own island.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

How much did you pay for the system?

And wait till it breaks in the middle of the night,and nobody has parts on the truck.

 

[Trey T]

So at $7500 normal price he is making a killing ???????

That's not my intention of getting into price war w/ sharing the details. I provided the information so that if he wants to negotiate, he has the confidence to do it.

 

[PearlWhiteGT]

Thanks fellas for all the help. I decided to replace the whole system with a Rheem 3.5 Ton, 14 SEER (RA14 & RH1P) for $3400 out the door from a old buddy of mine. He did a load calc back when he installed the original system and nothing has changed since then. Maybe not as insulated as back then due to the insulation settling but all should be good.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Thanks fellas for all the help. I decided to replace the whole system with a Rheem 3.5 Ton, 14 SEER (RA14 & RH1P) for $3400 out the door from a old buddy of mine. He did a load calc back when he installed the original system and nothing has changed since then. Maybe not as insulated as back then due to the insulation settling but all should be good.

Nothing wrong with rhuud/Rheem or weather king equipt.

 

[yeldogt]

Exactly.
I'd take goodman over carrier or any of its spin offs anyday.

I have used Carrier equipment for 20 years -- nothing out of the ordinarily went wrong. I always bought the 10y warranty ... good installations. The infinity control w/zoning can't be beat IMO. I used York AC previously -- Rheem occasionally w/oil

Goodman was smart to bring out an in-house warranty .... that's a big failing with all the other manufacturers. They all use third party warranties.

The new VS systems being sold with the AMANA name look very nice -- they use a swing compressor in the lower ton units and a scroll in the 4t. w/ the better warranty -- they make a compelling case for themselves if they are keeping the value pricing on them.

Carrier uses a rotary in one of the better infinity units.

 

[toyotadriver]

R22 is being phased out because it MAY harm the atmosphere...R410a will be phased out because it DOES harm the atmosphere.

You've got those backward. Really none of them have any substantial effect on the atmosphere but the greenies claim they do and have managed to get legislation to that effect.

That said, R410A seems to be a better refrigerant than R22 as far as efficiency is concerned. It does have to run at higher pressures than R22 so the system has to be designed to handle it.

My new R410A heat pump system works quite well and provides heat at a lower outside temp than my R22 system in my last house.

From wiki

In accordance with terms and agreement reached in the Montreal Protocol (The Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer) the United States Environmental Protection Agency has mandated that production or import of R-22 along with other hydrochlorofluorocarbons (HCFCs) be phased-out in the United States. In the EU and the USA, virgin R22 cannot be used for manufacture of new air conditioning or similar units from 1 January 2010.[8] In other parts of the world the phase-out date varies from country to country. Today, all newly manufactured window unit air conditioners and mini split air conditioners in the United States come with R-410A only.[10]

Another link:
http://www.coolingpost.com/features/what-future-for-r410a/

 

[Trey T]

R22 is being phased out because it MAY harm the atmosphere...R410a will be phased out because it DOES harm the atmosphere.

stop spreading fake news, man. Read the federal rule that's in my post #23.

I see too many technicians want to be refrigerant scientist or policy makers. Just leave those issues alone if you're unwilling to read proper documents from original sources. We need to focus on the technical aspect of providing excellent HVAC service.

 

[yeldogt]

Removed a properly working 4T York R12 system two years ago -- hated to see the old girl go. Bought the house back in 1993 and she was about 6 years old.

The only time it was touched -- was when it had to be relocated in the 90's. Upgrades to the house over the years made the unit way oversized. The cost of R12 was not a factor -- it never leaked.

Leaks can often be fixed -- but they take a good technician. It's easier to just tell the homeowner ... replace. Fixing a leak and refilling w/ R12 is way cheaper vs replacing --

When I bought my place in NYC -- the bathrooms all had Kohler Rochelle toilets. I loved them but every plumber just said -- replace. It's easier to switch out and make a quick $500 in labor vs actually fixing something. I'm a Rochelle expert should anyone need guidance.