Got a Snap On YA642

[Jeeper]

Decided I'd look into the valves on this guy again. Still don't know what the issue is of why the ball bearing is not seating. From looking at it with a magnifying glass, I don't see anything obvious as in a cut or piece of dirt. If anything it looks like maybe the jack was try to long and there is a little uneveness due to rust on the seat.

I have put 2 pictures. Both are actually the same picture but the second is just cropped. I am thinking I will just recut the valve seat. Seems like the surface just needs to be knocked down a little.

 

[Hiball]

Jeeper without having it here in front of me, it's tough to see what's going on.. I asked earlier in the thread for you to verify that you have the correct weight (Length) in between the small and big ball. If its too long it can prevent the upper ball from seating properly. I don't have the length here at home, but have that info at the shop.

 

[Hiball]

Posts disappearing? Or I'm sleepy...

 

[EDGAR]

No, the photo didn't came out the firts time.

Is the edge marked by the arrow on the photo kind of rounded downwards or is it just an optical illusion? The rest of the hole edge looks sharper. Anyway, before you cut the seat, try the solution I gave you on the PMs I sent you. If it does not works for you, then try to redo the seat. Remember that the ball seats on the edge made by the intersection of the holes's vertical wall and the almost horizontal seat face (the one seen on the photo). Any roundness of the sharp edge, or missing metal at this intersection will make a leaky seat. When you tap the ball a couple of times to seat the ball, the edge conforms to the ball shape (or roundness) but this edge formed is supposed to be very small and it should retain some sharpness because the sharp edge it forms is what allows the ball to seal.

Whenever you cut a new seat, you need to seat the ball with a couple of taps to form the correct sealing edge. There is no way around this.

 

[Jeeper]

Edgar - The couple of options you sent me were to seat the ball by tapping and to try the next size down ball bearing (9/32"). I have tried seating it several times but didn't seem to cure it, however, it did help. I haven't tried the smaller ball bearing because my local Ace only had 5/16" and 1/4". Didn't want to try the 1/4" as thought it might be too small. Does it make more sense to redo the seat or do a different ball bearing? Assuming the engineers here used a specific sized ball bearing for a reason. I can source a 9/16" ball but may have to order it.

Hiball - The weight between the two ball bearings measures .595in or 15.10mm.

 

[Hiball]

Hiball - The weight between the two ball bearings measures .595in or 15.10mm.

Ill Double check that, Next time i get to the Shop. If you have Overseated/Lowered the Seat it is sometimes necessary to reduce the length of that weight. With that Said... Dont go grinding down your OEM spacer/Weight, I wish i could just simply Reach thru your computer and Verify what you have going on with your Seat. Its Not Overly complicated and 99% of the time its something simple..

 

[Jeeper]

Ill Double check that, Next time i get to the Shop. If you have Overseated/Lowered the Seat it is sometimes necessary to reduce the length of that weight. With that Said... Dont go grinding down your OEM spacer/Weight, I wish i could just simply Reach thru your computer and Verify what you have going on with your Seat. Its Not Overly complicated and 99% of the time its something simple..

Thanks Hiball. What are some other ways to inspect this? Do you use a boroscope or something else? What about any ways to clean the seat?

I still think this is caused because the jack is dry and the seat looks like it's not freshly machined. Like it needs to be hit with sandpaper a little but that is just what I am guessing.

The jack still works. Just used it on my pontiac. Only downside is the jack handle slowly rises.

 

[Hiball]

Thanks Hiball. What are some other ways to inspect this? Do you use a boroscope or something else? What about any ways to clean the seat?

I still think this is caused because the jack is dry and the seat looks like it's not freshly machined. Like it needs to be hit with sandpaper a little but that is just what I am guessing.

The jack still works. Just used it on my pontiac. Only downside is the jack handle slowly rises.

I have a lighted scope that simply sit on top of the valve and it makes everything appear in HD. As Edgar mentioned, you need sharp crisp transitions on the vertical axis along with horizontally. If your just seeing some light discoloration, a proper sized ball mounted to a stem and some lapping compound will address that issue with simply a light touch. I've been staring at valve seats for so long, it's almost become second nature on how to read them and address the problem <---- if ANY.

Once upon a time, I posted up a Enerpac link showing pictures of improperly formed seats, I tried to find it briefly this morning. Ill look again later this evening when I get home..

 

[Hiball]

Found it..

http://www.ohiohydraulic.com/enerpac/VALVE%20SEAT%20CHART%20INFORMATION.pdf

 

[Jeeper]

Purchased one of those cheap USB endoscopes. Here is the image... Thoughts? I think that I am to the point where i will get some extra ball bearings of the proper size, epoxy them to tube and use some valve grinding compound to touch up the valve seats. I can't imagine it will take much.

 

[Hiball]

Purchased one of those cheap USB endoscopes. Here is the image... Thoughts? I think that I am to the point where i will get some extra ball bearings of the proper size, epoxy them to tube and use some valve grinding compound to touch up the valve seats. I can't imagine it will take much.

The picture isnt real sharp.. But it looks suspect in the 3-6 o'clock Range. What is all fresh Shiny from 6 o'clock to 2 o'clock? Is that from trying to Reform the seat with a Ball and Punch?

 

[Jeeper]

The picture isnt real sharp.. But it looks suspect in the 3-6 o'clock Range. What is all fresh Shiny from 6 o'clock to 2 o'clock? Is that from trying to Reform the seat with a Ball and Punch?

I think you are referring to the bottom "ring" which should be for the small ball or valve for drawing oil in from the tank to the pump. The top "ring" is for the large ball is for preventing the ram from bleeding back to the pump.

I think I got that right? I added some oil just to stop rust a week ago and I think that is the LED reflection of the oil. The bottom ring looks the worse. The top doesn't look to bad but I can't imagine it being horrible considering the handle feedback is minor.

 

[Hiball]

I think you are referring to the bottom "ring" which should be for the small ball or valve for drawing oil in from the tank to the pump. The top "ring" is for the large ball is for preventing the ram from bleeding back to the pump.

I think I got that right? I added some oil just to stop rust a week ago and I think that is the LED reflection of the oil. The bottom ring looks the worse. The top doesn't look to bad but I can't imagine it being horrible considering the handle feedback is minor.

Yes.. The upper ball is what is allowing the handle feedback. I guess that scope is further down than I thought.

 

[Hiball]

Again.. Its hard to see, But these spots look suspect to me. I think your best bet is some Light "Hand" Grinding with Lapping compound. LOL.. The Longer i stare at it.. It appears there are quite of Few spots. Im just not sure if its Shadows.

 

[Jeeper]

Yes.. The upper ball is what is allowing the handle feedback. I guess that scope is further down than I thought.

The camera head is resting on the copper seal. It almost can fit through it but its a hair too big. I am going to do some light lapping per your advice. Hoping its just a matter of touching up the seats. There is some rust on there so hoping that is the problem.

 

[Jeeper]

Got the jack pump hydraulic torn back down. Just need to remove the overload valve, clean the oil off and relap the valves.

I made 2 lapping balls. Used aluminum rod and epoxied a bearing to each. Even though the upper valve is the problem I figure I will touch up both. The bottom valve looks to have more rust.

My plan is to us a cordless drill to run each ball lap. Going to go slow as I don't think they need much. I will use the valve grinding compound from permatex. Once done I will clean it up with some break clean.

Even got some loctite 518....or at least permatex equivalent for reassembly. Quick question for Hibal. I know you put some 518 on the tank but do put any on the bottom of the pump? I had to really tighten it down to stop it from leaking. Seems like there is a better way.

Only other thing is I tried to remove the plug in the bolt hole (one of the four that attaches the pump to the frame) and stripped the hex head. Figured I'd take it out to help clean out any particles. Guess it will have to stay. Also broke my gear wrench 3/16 long hex bit.

Hope it works when I am done...

 

[Hiball]

Got the jack pump hydraulic torn back down. Just need to remove the overload valve, clean the oil off and relap the valves.

I made 2 lapping balls. Used aluminum rod and epoxied a bearing to each. Even though the upper valve is the problem I figure I will touch up both. The bottom valve looks to have more rust.

My plan is to us a cordless drill to run each ball lap. Going to go slow as I don't think they need much. I will use the valve grinding compound from permatex. Once done I will clean it up with some break clean.

Even got some loctite 518....or at least permatex equivalent for reassembly. Quick question for Hibal. I know you put some 518 on the tank but do put any on the bottom of the pump? I had to really tighten it down to stop it from leaking. Seems like there is a better way.

Only other thing is I tried to remove the plug in the bolt hole (one of the four that attaches the pump to the frame) and stripped the hex head. Figured I'd take it out to help clean out any particles. Guess it will have to stay. Also broke my gear wrench 3/16 long hex bit.

Hope it works when I am done...

I would do the valve work by hand... You can actually feel the cutting if you pay attention. I use the 518 on both ends, remember it doesn't take much.. Again very little, you don't want it squeezing out. I start out by applying it the base of the reservoir, carefully place it in the groove, insert the ram, the. Thread the tank nut down till there is a very small gap between the nut/reservoir. Then simply apply a small amount in 3 or 4 spots and tighten the nut down.

 

[pop pop]

Somewhere in my process I saw on an assembly manual from Walker to apply never seize to the packing nut threads before tightening it up. FWIW.

 

[Jeeper]

I would do the valve work by hand... You can actually feel the cutting if you pay attention. I use the 518 on both ends, remember it doesn't take much.. Again very little, you don't want it squeezing out. I start out by applying it the base of the reservoir, carefully place it in the groove, insert the ram, the. Thread the tank nut down till there is a very small gap between the nut/reservoir. Then simply apply a small amount in 3 or 4 spots and tighten the nut down.

Thanks for the feedback. Will do the valve work by hand. Glad I posted for feedback before starting.

For the 518, I really am asking about the piston or pump. The cylinder the handle pushes down. Do you use any sealant on that?

 

[Jeeper]

When I say pump or piston, I mean one this....

Not sure the correct name.

 

[Hiball]

Thanks for the feedback. Will do the valve work by hand. Glad I posted for feedback before starting.

For the 518, I really am asking about the piston or pump. The cylinder the handle pushes down. Do you use any sealant on that?

I don't use 518 where the pump cylinder screws into the block, I have on occasion used thread sealant if needed (but don't be abusive with it, you don't want that **** floating thru the system)

 

[Jeeper]

Finally got around to cleaning up the valve seats. Spent a few minutes on each seat. Hibal is right, you can feel the grit in the compound grinding the seat. Looks I have success. I put the rear of my f150 on the jack for 5-10 minutes and the handle stayed where it should.

The only thing I noticed on occasion the handle may raise ever so slightly after a pump and then stop. I mean fractions of an inch here. I suspect there still may be some junk in the jack still that might interfere with the seat on occasion. When I had the pump apart, I noticed there was some particles floating in it. Looks like this jack had enough rust in it that it might be good for me to change the oil out more frequently to flush more out.

Brings up a good question. Is there a faster way to fill up a floor jack? I am using clear vinyl tube. It takes forever

I am calling it a success. Fun little project and now I have a USA made jack to pick up my vehicles.

Here is the valve seats. In person you can definitely tell the edge of the seat where it's silver and fresh.

Picking up my truck for several minutes.

 

[Jeeper]

Also I used 518 on where the tank meets the body and where the packing nut meets the tank. Also put some thread sealant with ptfe (had some leftover from a water pump install) on the piston threads. Was careful not to put any on the bottom thread or two so nothing would get loose in the system. No leaks so far and I haven't seen any seepage around the piston like before. Plus I didn't have to crank the piston down like before. Just moderate pressure.


Now on to the late 80s craftsman Taiwan import I just picked up for $20.

 

[pilotman81]

I hope that I can get as good of results rebuilding my old man's floor jacks this spring.

 

[Hiball]

Jeeper... I use a oil squirt can to fill the reservoir, its one of the bigger ones that moves a fairly large amount of oil "per pump".

Congrats on getting things up and going.. And not giving up.

 

[Unmarked Bill]

Is there a good match to that paint for cheap?

 

[Hiball]

Is there a good match to that paint for cheap?

Not a Direct Match, But i ended up going with Rustoleum "Sunrise Red" on a Recommendation from Looking4'67GalaxieConv. Here is a Link to a Thread of "His" showing the before and After using that Color.

 

[Unmarked Bill]

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Jeeper]

Thanks to Hiball and Edgar for all the help. Definitely a fun project to get some older American iron working again.

 

[Cole2534]

No.. The Release is Working if its holding your vehicles. The Valve in Question would be the Working Valve, The One opposite the Overload. I would first Elevate the Rear of the Jack to position the oil away from the Valves, Then remove the Plug, Pull the Big Weight (should be Fat side UP), Then the Big Ball, Small Weight, Small Ball to make sure there is nothing preventing the Balls from Seating properly. You can generally find the Freeze plugs at Some Auto Part Stores, They are 5/8" Concave Style...

Sorry to bump an old thread, but how the heck do you remove these plugs?

I picked up (3) of these jacks with all the hydraulics shot but only paid $10/ea, how'd I do?

 

[Jeeper]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but how the heck do you remove these plugs?

I picked up (3) of these jacks with all the hydraulics shot but only paid $10/ea, how'd I do?

You ****. That's a great price. To remove the plugs, are you talking about the metal cover or the screw-in, straight slot screw plug?

For the metal cover, just take a pin punch and drive a hole in the middle and leverage the cover off.

For the screw in plug, I found some large straight slot screwdriver sockets at harbor freight. I then used a 3/4" drive sliding tbar with an adapter (3/4 to 1/2") to the large screwdriver socket. That way I could push and turn to get the plug turning. Worked the best for me compared to a large screwdriver.

 

[Jeeper]

This is the screwdriver big socket from HF that I have. Pretty good size that works well on the screw in valve plugs.

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-pc-12-in-drive-screwdriver-bit-socket-set-67881.html

 

[Cole2534]

For the metal cover, just take a pin punch and drive a hole in the middle and leverage the cover off.

That's the one I'm talking about.

And damn those caps are tight. 3/8 impact wouldn't get it, need to find a bigger one.

 

[Hustler388]

I know this is a old thread.

Wonder if you could use a old automotive style push rod w/ the valve grinding compound to do the same to the ck ball seat? ie a chevy v8 5/16


Rob

 

[Hiball]

I know this is a old thread.

Wonder if you could use a old automotive style push rod w/ the valve grinding compound to do the same to the ck ball seat? ie a chevy v8 5/16


Rob

If you have the appropriate sized ball on the end, sure the factory/retail sold tools are simply a ball on a stem. I want to be clear... valve seats very seldom need grinding, especially on jacks that have had oil in them. Generally it's the ones that have seen the elements, sat in the corner and started to have rust form on the seat for extended periods of time. In these cases after a visual inspection it's time to grab the valve lapping compound/tools. The majority of minor seat issues can be remedied with a clean seat, clean properly sized ball and a couple taps with a punch/hammer.

 

[Hustler388]

If you have the appropriate sized ball on the end, sure the factory/retail sold tools are simply a ball on a stem. I want to be clear... valve seats very seldom need grinding, especially on jacks that have had oil in them. Generally it's the ones that have seen the elements, sat in the corner and started to have rust form on the seat for extended periods of time. In these cases after a visual inspection it's time to grab the valve lapping compound/tools. The majority of minor seat issues can be remedied with a clean seat, clean properly sized ball and a couple taps with a punch/hammer.

I figured that could a opt for someone instead of buying the tools etc, not sure what the real tool cost? I know ive got diff left over pushrods out of race motors, also Im guessing you could use some other types of compound, like car buffing compounds,gun bore paste,etc. Someone on a budget. Just a thought. Like ya said most jacks dont need the the seats touched.

Thanks for the info

Rob