To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Grunge Garage

Status
Not open for further replies.

rubberrodder

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
616
Location
Tacomatose Wa.
You said you had "backed up sanitary plumbing" in the basement. What a nice polite, politically correct way of saying "I have **** all over everything in my basement and it is ruined!"
You have NO running water.
You have NO heat.
You have NO working toilet.
This is going to boil down to one of two things.
#1,YOU get a dumpster and throw out everything in the basement.and then fix your plumbing and heating issues. You have SEWAGE in your basement. you wouldnt pulla shirt out of a cesspool and wear it would you? You wouldnt put on someone elses pants after they crapped in them would you?.Thats what you will be doing if you keep ANYTHING from the basement. There is NOTHING SAFE TO SALVAGE DOWN THERE ANYMORE!!!
#2, Someone at the city or county HEALTH department finds out your situation and they condemn you property put you out somewhere else till THEY clean it up and YOU get CHARGED for the whole clean up.
I beg of you with all the earnestness at my command to get a big dumpster and take advantage of the help being offered. It will be cheaper than letting the local authorities do it for/to you.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

markviii

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
1,310
Location
east central IL
Bill,

Tom and I left IL at 5am CST and just walked in the door at 7:30pm after our round-trip to Livonia. Actual east-bound time = 6 hours, actual west-bound = 7 hours (Tom took a nap and we took another rest break on the way back). The other 1.5 hours was spent making sure Tom knew how to work the refurbished Sun and Allen distributor machines, loading up the machines, and meeting the other wife. A fun and quick trip! I hope you got as much done as we did during that 14 hours. I was sending good vibes your way!

Chris
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
Bill,

Tom and I left IL at 5am CST and just walked in the door at 7:30pm after our round-trip to Livonia. Actual east-bound time = 6 hours, actual west-bound = 7 hours (Tom took a nap and we took another rest break on the way back). The other 1.5 hours was spent making sure Tom knew how to work the refurbished Sun and Allen distributor machines, loading up the machines, and meeting the other wife. A fun and quick trip! I hope you got as much done as we did during that 14 hours. I was sending good vibes your way!

Chris

:wtf: Something we don't know about?

Bill...seriously....concentrate on the basement and get some water and heat in that place. Please take advantage of a roll off and just clean everything out of the basement so you can access the bones of the house!!!
 

70Chevy

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
420
Location
The Motor City
I'm also a Metro Detroiter and would be willing to help with clearing out stuff and getting the house mechanicals back in working order.
If it's good stuff, maybe post on craigslist for people to bring and empty box and leave with it full - a dollar a box - or something.
 

markviii

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
1,310
Location
east central IL
Kevin54 - I meant Bob's wife, Jean, of course! In NJ on breaks between 3-day trips, we've rented a room in a widow's home for the past 18 years. I'm rarely there since 9/11 because I can't pick up our car the the employee parking lot - what an inconvenience. When "the widow" (that's how she introduces herself to our friends) introduces me to her friends/acquaintances, I explain that "I'm the wife of the man who lives with her." It always brings interesting reactions, depending on who that friend/acquaintance is. Needless to day, we've had lots of fun with this over the years!

Now, back to the business at hand. Bill, I hope Julie is feeling better this week and back to work. Today you'll have the thunderstorms we drove through last night, so time inside to fill garbage sacks with muck/junk. Tuesday and Wednesday will be relatively clear - time to get the filled dumpsters to the curb. All this stuff should be from the basement - top priority. You've got to get those water pipes fixed soon!

Just think of all the stair climbing as part of your physical fitness program, getting your body and life in shape for the future!

Chris
 

rubberrodder

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
616
Location
Tacomatose Wa.
Bill,
I apologize if I was overly blunt with you in my last posting.
Sugar coating you situation will not help you. However, please be assured that I do care and support what you are doing. Speaking only for my self, I sometimes need a good *****-slappin' up side the head to see the reallity of my own stuff.
My main concern is that if this sewage in the basement has been there for more than a mweek or two, you will try to salvage stuff. EVERYTHING down there must go! It has been contaminated with feces and all other manner of disease and POISON! I can not stress enough that there is now NOTHING salvageable down there any more! This should make it easy for you to clean it out as there MUST be NO sorting process!
Bless you Bill and keep up the work!
 
Last edited:
OP
B

bczygan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,002
Location
DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
Bill,
I apologize if I was overly blunt with you in my last posting.
Sugar coating you situation will not help you. However, please be assured that I do care and support what you are doing. Speaking only for my self, I sometimes need a good *****-slappin' up side the head to see the reallity of my own stuff.
My main concern is that if this sewage in the basement has been there for more than a mweek or two, you will try to salvage stuff. EVERYTHING down there must go! It has been contaminated with feces and all other manner of disease and POISON! I can not stress enough that there is now NOTHING salvageable down there any more! This should make it easy for you to clean it out as there MUST be NO sorting process!
Bless you Bill and keep up the work!

Apologies not necessary. Bluntness is appropriate for me or anyone else who fools themselves. You are right. Nothing down there is salvageable.
It will require power washing and disinfecting.
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
Bill, this is copied from the International OCD Foundation http://www.ocfoundation.org/hoarding/

And again, please don't take it the wrong way as we are all behind you 100% as we have mentioned time after time after time. I just wish I was a little closer and I'd be over to help you out in a split second. I consider you a very good "Internet friend" and only wish the best for you.


What is compulsive hoarding? Compulsive hoarding includes ALL three of the following:
1.
A person collects and keeps a lot of items, even things that appear useless or of little value to most people, and
2.
These items clutter the living spaces and keep the person from using their rooms as they were intended, and
3.
These items cause distress or problems in day-to-day activities.
How is hoarding different from collecting?

In hoarding, people seldom seek to display their possessions, which are usually kept in disarray.

In collecting, people usually proudly display their collections and keep them well organized.
What are the signs of compulsive hoarding?

Difficulty getting rid of items

A large amount of clutter in the office, at home, in the car, or in other spaces (i.e. storage units) that makes it difficult to use furniture or appliances or move around easily

Losing important items like money or bills in the clutter

Feeling overwhelmed by the volume of possessions that have ‘taken over’ the house or workspace

Being unable to stop taking free items, such as advertising flyers or sugar packets from restaurants

Buying things because they are a “bargain” or to “stock up”

Not inviting family or friends into the home due to shame or embarrassment

Refusing to let people into the home to make repairs
What makes getting rid of clutter difficult for hoarders?

Difficulty organizing possessions

Unusually strong positive feelings (joy, delight) when getting new items

Strong negative feelings (guilt, fear, anger) when considering getting rid of items

Strong beliefs that items are “valuable” or “useful”, even when other people do not want them

Feeling responsible for objects and sometimes thinking of inanimate objects as having feelings

Denial of a problem even when the clutter or acquiring clearly interferes with a person’s life
Who struggles with hoarding behavior?
Hoarding behaviors can begin as early as the teenage years, although the average age of a person seeking treatment for hoarding is about 50. Hoarders often endure a lifelong struggle with hoarding. They tend to live alone and may have a family member with the problem. It seems likely that serious hoarding problems are present in at least 1in 50 people, but they may be present in as many as 1 in 20.
Are hoarding and obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) related?
Compulsive hoarding was commonly considered to be a type of OCD. Some estimate that as many as 1 in 4 people with OCD also have compulsive hoarding. Recent research suggests that nearly 1 in 5 compulsive hoarders have non-hoarding OCD symptoms. Compulsive hoarding is also considered a feature of obsessive compulsive personality disorder (OCPD) and may develop along with other mental illnesses, such as dementia and schizophrenia.
What kinds of things do people hoard?
Most often, people hoard common possessions, such as paper (e.g., mail, newspapers), books, clothing and containers (e.g., boxes, paper and plastic bags). Some people hoard garbage or rotten food. More rarely, people hoard animals or human waste products. Often the items collected are valuable but far in excess of what can reasonably be used.
What are the effects of hoarding?

Severe clutter threatens the health and safety of those living in or near the home, causing health problems, structural damage, fire, and even death

Expensive and emotionally devastating evictions or other court actions can lead to hospitalizations or homelessness

Conflict with family members and friends who are frustrated and concerned about the state of the home and the hoarding behaviors

Is compulsive hoarding caused by past poverty or hardship?
People who hoard may call themselves “thrifty.” They may also think that their behavior is due to having lived through a
period of poverty or hardship during their lives. Research to date has not supported this idea. However, experiencing a
traumatic event or serious loss, such as the death of a spouse or parent, may lead to a worsening of hoarding behavior.
Can compulsive hoarding be treated?
Yes, compulsive hoarding can be treated. Unfortunately it has not responded well to the usual treatments that work for OCD.
Strategies to treat hoarding include:
• Challenging the hoarder’s thoughts and beliefs about the need to keep items and about collecting new things
• Going out without buying or picking up new items
• Getting rid of and recycling clutter. First, by practicing the removal of clutter with the help of a clinician or coach and
then independently removing clutter
• Finding and joining a support group or teaming up with a coach to sort and reduce clutter
• Understanding that relapses can occur
• Developing a plan to prevent future clutter.
How can I help a hoarding friend or family member de-clutter?
Attempts by family and friends to help with de-cluttering may not be well received by the person who hoards. It is helpful to
keep in mind:
• Until the person is internally motivated to change they may not accept your offer to help.
• Motivation cannot be forced.
• Everyone, including people who hoard, has a right to make choices about their objects and how they live.
• People who hoard are often ambivalent about accepting help and throwing away objects.
Can’t compulsive hoarding be solved by simply cleaning out the home?
No. Attempts to “clean out” the homes of people who hoard without treating the underlying problem usually fail. Families
and community agencies may spend many hours and thousands of dollars clearing a home only to find that the problem
recurs, often within just a few months. Hoarders whose homes are cleared without their consent often experience extreme
distress and may become further attached to their possessions. This may lead to their refusal of future help.

How do I have a conversation with my friend of family member who is ready to talk about hoarding?
When a person seems willing to talk about a hoarding problem, follow these guidelines:
• Respect. Acknowledge that the person has a right to make their own decisions at their own pace.
• Have sympathy. Understand that everyone has some attachment to the things they own. Try to understand the
importance of their items to them.
• Encourage. Come up with ideas to make their home safer, such as moving clutter from doorways and halls.
• Team up with them. Don’t argue about whether to keep or discard an item; instead, find out what will help motivate the
person to discard or organize.
• Reflect. Help the person to recognize that hoarding interferes with the goals or values the person may hold. For
example, by de-cluttering the home, a person may host social gatherings and have a richer social life.

• Ask. To develop trust, never throw anything away without asking permission.
Are there medicines that can help reduce hoarding?
• Medicine alone does not appear to reduce hoarding behavior.
• Medicine may help reduce the symptoms.
• Medicine can be used to treat conditions that may make hoarding worse, like depression and anxiety.
Where can I find further information and help?
Boston University School of Social Work (www.bu.edu/ssw/research/hoarding)
Smith College Department of Psychology (www.science.smith.edu/departments/PSYCH/rfrost)
Authors: Christiana Bratiotis, PhD, Suzanne Otte, MSW, Gail Steketee, PhD, Jordana Muroff, PhD, Boston
University School of Social Work; Randy O. Frost, PhD, Smith College Department of Psychology
Copyright © 2009 International OCD Foundation (IOCDF), PO Box 961029, Boston, MA 02196, 617.973.5801
http://www.ocfoundation.org
 

Riley

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
398
Hey, Good morning!

While there are obviously lots of folks with all kinds of opinions and advice for your long tern physical and emotional well being, let me offer a bit of short term advice for dealing with the contaminated basement.

In a previous life I was a qualified gas free engineer and I want to remind, or inform, you of the potentially fatal development of hydrogen sulfide that can occur in closed spaces with decaying organic matter. I dealt with it in enclosed sea water and fuel tanks on ships, but I'd imagine a basement could also be problem.

Essentially, hydrogen sulfide can be identified by the "rotten eggs" smell you can get when entering enclosed spaces. It is potentially fatal and is nothing to be messed with, lots of positive ventilation is the key. It is heavier than air so it will tend to settle, if you get a whif going down the stairs immediately turn around! It won't get better on the floor of the basement.

This page covers it pretty well-

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxfaqs/tf.asp?id=388&tid=67

Other than that cheery little news, I have to say your efforts to deal with your problem here are simply inspirational. Well beyond most of our experiences and something that you are to be commended for undertaking! Even though not able to actually contribute to the heavy lifting, you have my strongest moral support!!

Best wishes and keep after it, safely!!
 
OP
B

bczygan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,002
Location
DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
Bill, this is copied from the International OCD Foundation http://www.ocfoundation.org/hoarding/

And again, please don't take it the wrong way as we are all behind you 100% as we have mentioned time after time after time. I just wish I was a little closer and I'd be over to help you out in a split second. I consider you a very good "Internet friend" and only wish the best for you.


What is compulsive hoarding? Compulsive hoarding includes ALL three of the following:
1.
A person collects and keeps a lot of items, even things that appear useless or of little value to most people, and
2.
These items clutter the living spaces and keep the person from using their rooms as they were intended, and
3.
These items cause distress or problems in day-to-day activities.
How is hoarding different from collecting?

In hoarding, people seldom seek to display their possessions, which are usually kept in disarray.

In collecting, people usually proudly display their collections and keep them well organized.
What are the signs of compulsive hoarding?

Difficulty getting rid of items

A large amount of clutter in the office, at home, in the car, or in other spaces (i.e. storage units) that makes it difficult to use furniture or appliances or move around easily

Losing important items like money or bills in the clutter

Feeling overwhelmed by the volume of possessions that have ‘taken over’ the house or workspace

Being unable to stop taking free items, such as advertising flyers or sugar packets from restaurants

Buying things because they are a “bargain” or to “stock up”

Not inviting family or friends into the home due to shame or embarrassment

Refusing to let people into the home to make repairs
What makes getting rid of clutter difficult for hoarders?

Difficulty organizing possessions

Unusually strong positive feelings (joy, delight) when getting new items

Strong negative feelings (guilt, fear, anger) when considering getting rid of items

Strong beliefs that items are “valuable” or “useful”, even when other people do not want them

Feeling responsible for objects and sometimes thinking of inanimate objects as having feelings

Denial of a problem even when the clutter or acquiring clearly interferes with a person’s life
Who struggles with hoarding behavior?
Hoarding behaviors can begin as early as the teenage years, although the average age of a person seeking treatment for hoarding is about 50. (61)
Hoarders often endure a lifelong struggle with hoarding. They tend to live alone and may have a family member with the problem. It seems likely that serious hoarding problems are present in at least 1in 50 people, but they may be present in as many as 1 in 20.
Are hoarding and obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) related?
Compulsive hoarding was commonly considered to be a type of OCD. Some estimate that as many as 1 in 4 people with OCD also have compulsive hoarding. Recent research suggests that nearly 1 in 5 compulsive hoarders have non-hoarding OCD symptoms. Compulsive hoarding is also considered a feature of obsessive compulsive personality disorder (OCPD) and may develop along with other mental illnesses, such as dementia and schizophrenia.
What kinds of things do people hoard?
Most often, people hoard common possessions, such as paper (e.g., mail, newspapers), books, clothing and containers (e.g., boxes, paper and plastic bags). Some people hoard garbage or rotten food. More rarely, people hoard animals or human waste products. Often the items collected are valuable but far in excess of what can reasonably be used.
What are the effects of hoarding?

Severe clutter threatens the health and safety of those living in or near the home, causing health problems, structural damage, fire, and even death

Expensive and emotionally devastating evictions or other court actions can lead to hospitalizations or homelessness

Conflict with family members and friends who are frustrated and concerned about the state of the home and the hoarding behaviors

Is compulsive hoarding caused by past poverty or hardship?
People who hoard may call themselves “thrifty.” They may also think that their behavior is due to having lived through a
period of poverty or hardship during their lives. Research to date has not supported this idea. However, experiencing a
traumatic event or serious loss, such as the death of a spouse or parent, may lead to a worsening of hoarding behavior.
Can compulsive hoarding be treated?
Yes, compulsive hoarding can be treated. Unfortunately it has not responded well to the usual treatments that work for OCD.
Strategies to treat hoarding include:
• Challenging the hoarder’s thoughts and beliefs about the need to keep items and about collecting new things
• Going out without buying or picking up new items
• Getting rid of and recycling clutter. First, by practicing the removal of clutter with the help of a clinician or coach and
then independently removing clutter
• Finding and joining a support group or teaming up with a coach to sort and reduce clutter
• Understanding that relapses can occur
• Developing a plan to prevent future clutter.
How can I help a hoarding friend or family member de-clutter?
Attempts by family and friends to help with de-cluttering may not be well received by the person who hoards. It is helpful to
keep in mind:
• Until the person is internally motivated to change they may not accept your offer to help.
• Motivation cannot be forced.
• Everyone, including people who hoard, has a right to make choices about their objects and how they live.
• People who hoard are often ambivalent about accepting help and throwing away objects.
Can’t compulsive hoarding be solved by simply cleaning out the home?
No. Attempts to “clean out” the homes of people who hoard without treating the underlying problem usually fail. Families
and community agencies may spend many hours and thousands of dollars clearing a home only to find that the problem
recurs, often within just a few months. Hoarders whose homes are cleared without their consent often experience extreme
distress and may become further attached to their possessions. This may lead to their refusal of future help.

How do I have a conversation with my friend of family member who is ready to talk about hoarding?
When a person seems willing to talk about a hoarding problem, follow these guidelines:
• Respect. Acknowledge that the person has a right to make their own decisions at their own pace.
• Have sympathy. Understand that everyone has some attachment to the things they own. Try to understand the
importance of their items to them.
• Encourage. Come up with ideas to make their home safer, such as moving clutter from doorways and halls.
• Team up with them. Don’t argue about whether to keep or discard an item; instead, find out what will help motivate the
person to discard or organize.
• Reflect. Help the person to recognize that hoarding interferes with the goals or values the person may hold. For
example, by de-cluttering the home, a person may host social gatherings and have a richer social life.

• Ask. To develop trust, never throw anything away without asking permission.
Are there medicines that can help reduce hoarding?
• Medicine alone does not appear to reduce hoarding behavior.
• Medicine may help reduce the symptoms.
• Medicine can be used to treat conditions that may make hoarding worse, like depression and anxiety.
Where can I find further information and help?
Boston University School of Social Work (www.bu.edu/ssw/research/hoarding)
Smith College Department of Psychology (www.science.smith.edu/departments/PSYCH/rfrost)
Authors: Christiana Bratiotis, PhD, Suzanne Otte, MSW, Gail Steketee, PhD, Jordana Muroff, PhD, Boston
University School of Social Work; Randy O. Frost, PhD, Smith College Department of Psychology
Copyright © 2009 International OCD Foundation (IOCDF), PO Box 961029, Boston, MA 02196, 617.973.5801
http://www.ocfoundation.org


I used the above as a checklist.
Wow, It's harder than I thought to change...
 

markviii

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
1,310
Location
east central IL
Bill, what Kevin54 posted is a good checklist for us (your booster club), as well. We all know this is a very difficult thing you're trying to do.

The good news is you decided to start the clean-up yourself! That's the first, and biggest, step. However, you cannot accomplish the clean-up alone, either physically or emotionally. If you begin to feel overwhelmed during one part of your task, just take a rest and know we're all here to support you. If you need a "pep talk", just PM any of us because we're here for you.

Keep making progress; the good feelings you and your wife get after a portion is completed will begin to build on itself and help continue to motivate you. Also, the looming cold weather ought to be a major motivator!

Chris
 
OP
B

bczygan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,002
Location
DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
Looking at that list the thing that has me entirely flabbergasted, is that I DIDN'T THINK I WAS A HOARDER UNTIL I STARTED THIS THREAD, AND EVEN THEN, NOT AT FIRST!!!
Denial is a very strong mechanism.
 

JC23

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
11,718
Location
Northcoast
Bingo! Give that man a cigar!

It's breakthroughs like that you need. And use that momentum to keep moving forward.
 

Nighttrain

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
2,682
Location
Dripping Springs, Tx
For
example, by de-cluttering the home, a person may host social gatherings and have a richer social life.



OK Bill your going to host a GJ garage party at YOUR house next summer! I am in. I have family up there and will visit them when you have your party. So get going and get that house and garage ready for the party. By the way I am in the market for an air stream camper, ready to sell that one in the drive way. Who else in in for the 2012 Grunge Garage party?
 

rubberrodder

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
616
Location
Tacomatose Wa.
Denial is a very strong mechanism.
Bill,
I am a recovering alcoholic with twenty years sober. I am not saying it to brag,only as a reference for time served in changing ones self. I have seen a lot of drunks fail at sobriety due to one thing..DENIAL! I have seen it so strong that a person will drink themselves to death. Even after doctors have told them that to drink is to die. I hear at AA meetings that "so and so" died while drunk at least once a year. {yes, I still go to meetings. They are, for me, like insulin to a diabetic.} I doubt your hoarding is fatal, but it still is a serious situation. Just keep at doing what your doing. The more you do it, the better at it you will get.
 

Red Leader

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
2,688
Location
Denver, CO
Alright! I'll be your dumpster getting cheerleader!

Go get that dumpster!!! Go get that dumpster!!!

Whoowooo!!! ra ra ra!!!

I don't know if that really helped:lol:

But go get it and post pictures of it FULL!!!! You'll get major kudos!!!:thumbup:
 

Omphaloskeptic

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
2,346
Location
Ultima Ratio, Wa.
I have to ask - does your wife have any awareness of the disorder you are both obviously plagued with? Are you and your wife going to get mental health counseling to treat the causes of the hoarding disorder? As has been stated in the literature, hoarding is but a symptom of a deeper problem. Perhaps in getting appropriate counseling, the hoarding cycle will be broken once you get your house (and mind) in order. Good luck.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
B

bczygan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,002
Location
DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
I have to ask - does your wife have any awareness of the disorder you are both obviously plagued with? Are you and your wife going to get mental health counseling to treat the causes of the hoarding disorder? As has been stated in the literature, hoarding is but a symptom of a deeper problem. Perhaps in getting appropriate counseling, the hoarding cycle will be broken once you get your house (and mind) in order. Good luck.

She's in the phase I was in, (until recently). She responds to my jokingly calling us hoarders. On some level she knows we are. But not something she can face doing something about yet.
And by doing something, I mean, admitting it to herself and determining that she needs to do something to change.
You are dead right about symptom. It is one of many. I see in all sorts of ways, that we live inappropriately. She pays for health care, yet we don't use it while we are having health problems. We eat badly, We don't exercise. We're both overweight. We both suffer from severe dental problems, yet no dental work is being done. Cars need some basic maintenance like brakes, which is long overdue. I won't even go into financial problems. So, yes, counseling will be necessary. I can't do it alone. And even if I could, as I change, she will need to come along as well.
 

Dennis Cavallino

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
139
Location
The Netherlands
Bill, I think you have the Will to do a good job there. The only thing you need is a good coach. Someone who helps you to tick the boxes on your To Do lists, someone to help you writing 3-steps-a-day lists, because no man can do your 3000-things-to-do list in one year on it's own.

You'll need to have a goal in life. What's yours?




And what would Your goal be if you didn't be hold back by all the things you still have to do before you can even start with your new life?

To reach goals you need to be as healthy as possible. Personal health and good food (Fresh fruit, vegetables and all the blabla helps me to feel good every morning, every day and I don't even do workouts).

You don't need things that take all of your time. Time is an expensive asset in life, don't waste it. So get rid of all the timewasters. Don't save stuff for "later". We both know it just stays there for ever.

What you need is structure. Get up every day at the same time. Even when you're free. Don't spent too much time on things like watching tv. TV *****. Especially there in the US with commercials every 5 minutes. It *****. Put on the radio for music and news, or read a good newspaper. Throw it away after reading. Everything is on the internet if you want to read it again (you don't).

Get inspired by all the great stories here at GJ, but your story can also be amazing. Take small steps. Allow people to help you. You are an honest guy, we want you to be happy.

Just a couple of tips: create one room in your house where you can really mess things up. It can't be the living room, bed room or basement.

- don't put a TV or Computer in your bedroom. Just a bed (and a closet). Clean your bedroom at least once a week.

- Invite people to come over for a cup of coffee, or dinner once in a while, so you have 'deadlines' for cleaning up your living room and kitchen.

- Take a walk every day. Walking is free. It clears the mind. You can talk to people. It inspires. You breath fresh air (ok, on Detroits' standards... ;) ). I walk almost every day. From 15 minutes to hours. I always feel better.

I jused to suffer from depressions, it also had to do with too many tasks that make my head to freak out. I got help from my boss ("Dennis, I told you to do a maximum 3 tasks a day, not 40 you idiot!") and my girlfriend who amazingly understood my situation. I also had a good coach to help me achieve my personal goals every week. It just took me a couple of months to change my life. We bought a new house, with more daylight, more space. My boss sold his company and I started my own business. Life's good you know. I'm not religious, but I become a dad soon and I always realized that life is a gift, but know I realise it every day and I enjoy life every day. Even when things go bad. That's life too.

Throw away stuff, keep the memories.
Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Last edited:

kirk.g

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
120
Location
Toronto Ontario
Hey Bill ,I think Dennis has given you great advise,and i see many people are giving you advise, good advise at that.I can relate to your problem but my situation is not as extreme as yours.Structure has just been mentioned here and I know about lack of structure.I found out about 10 yrs ago that i have ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder).So time management and organization are not my strong points.People who are ADHD are often depressed and therefore lack energy and motivation.I am still fighting this everyday I am seperated and live alone which makes it tough.There is no one to remind me of what the plan is........... You have your wife but she seems to have the same issues .Im no expert but I think you are depressed .Its something that you just cant shake out of in fact if you become depressed for too long you may not be able to shake it without medical help...........its not like you give yourself a slap in the side of the head and snap out of it.......its great that you have the motivation to start changing things so keep it up...................If you know someone with good management and organizational skills that you can trust it would be a big help.But I know its hard inviting people in with your situation........I know that so much has been said already on here and Im trying not to repeat what youve already heard.............But even if you could get everything in order today you need to come to the realization that the collecting is just a symptom.So you need to address that or your issue may in the long term never be resolved.............On a more technical note I think that if there is an odor coming from your basement you may no longer be able to smell it.Its overwhelmed your Olfactry (sp) system by now.The problem is everyone else can smell it!There was a case here just recently of a woman who had over 120 cats,one day two woman came to the door compiling a voter registration.When no one answered and they noticed the smell they reported that someone might have died.That got the city involved they forced her out and took all the cats .Im not sure of the eventual outcome.But I know you want to avoid this potential situation so i think you need to focus on the basement right now.The smell will permeate the entire house and you wont even notice it!............If your wife works in an office other co workers might notice so you really need to address the basement................i dont know if any of this helps but keep going at it.......Kirk
 
OP
B

bczygan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,002
Location
DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
Kevin,
A little backsliding, a bit of trouble with CL, and a time crunch and of course, the forward inertia stopped and is hard to get going again. Seems like this time of year everything stacks up and I get overwhelmed.
But each post of encouragement has helped me sort it out in my mind, and I am now getting busy focusing on one item at a time and checking them off.
I am too busy to post just yet. Plus I am still working on getting a good wide route out of the basement to attack that. It (The basement) is still too big a thing to face (Emotionally). But I know I must.
Wife and I are still both placing roadblocks in our own way. Must stop doing this. Let me tell you what it feels like.
When I am on the computer or CL or going to get a "buy", I can feel the endorphins flowing through my body and brain. It's almost like a drug. It makes me feel excited and warm and purposeful and safe and secure. I am in control and have a plan and put it into action with a result.It doesn't help that I was a purchasing agent, and that is what I did (And was good at). I close my eyes to all the realities and live in a dream world where I am building a paradise by simply buying things.
When I am working on cleaning up, it is scary because I see all the faults and problems and think I can't possibly do enough to solve them. I see all the other messes in our lives. It seems hopeless. It is then that I realize the stark reality that buying things does NOT create a paradise, but makes the mess even worse and multiplies my problems. When I am facing things I feel a panic and it's hard to breathe and is very uncomfortable. I want to be back on the computer where the world isn't scary and real.
I am feeling that way right now, just thinking about going down and working. But I must go anyway. I need to accomplish a piece of work and feel the good feelings again, that result from that. That will reinforce and encourage me to do more. I must retrain myself to find pleasure by accomplishment rather than avoidance.
I have not been posting also, because I wanted to drop off the radar and not be held to task every day. That avoidance doesn't help me. So I must go back on the radar and start again with a small list and report on it when it is complete with photos for proof. Sorry folks. You have all been so helpful to me all this way. I won't give up.

Well, back to it.
Short list for today:
1. Clean out living room path to kitchen.
2. Move rest of tools to garage
3. Put buckets in rear yard
4. Bed frame upstairs
5. Trash out kitchen
 
Last edited:

CoconutPete

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
5,146
Location
Charlotte, NC & Denmark
I can't even remember how long ago I registered for this site or how many times I have posted, but I just HAD to check into this thread and say OH YEAH!

Hope to see you make more progress soon! One more vote for the dumpster for the basement though .... doesn't sound like there is anything to save down there. Get the basement empty, washed, plumbing fixed and then move forward.
 

rickairmedic

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
4,165
Location
louisville ,Ky
Bill I fully understand the HIGH from getting a deal on CL . What saves me is I know I only have so much room to store my scores . I have been on a tool buying kick this summer . I do however have a rule for myself . I must sell a tool when I buy one . As an example when I got the 1959 floor model craftsman drill press this summer . I put the HF benchtop model on CL that night . I actually Sold my little Craftsman lathe a few weeks ago and picked up a HF one . The HF one is actually a little bit better lathe with better dials and such . I picked up the HF one used for $150.00 and listed the Craftsman that evening for $300.00 and it was gone by 5PM the next day for asking price . I still have people calling about it and I pulled the add as soon as I sold it . I originally got the Craftsman for $100.00 ( so theres a high for me :D.) The HF lathe ended up being free in retrospect .


I think what you need to figure out how to do with CL is to enjoy the hunt and even buy things " with the idea that you can turn them around and put them back on at a profit ). The trick to this is to buy low and sell high " and you have to do the sell part " . I could have most likely gotten close to $500.00 for the craftsman lathe if I had put it on Ebay but I wanted to turn it quick so CL it was :D. You may also remember the HF 5 drawer tool cart I sold earlier . I didnt sell it for the money I sold it for the floor space it was taking up in the garage . " the money off of it was just a bonus " . I snagged it for like $125.00 a year ago when they were onsale and was able to stack a 20% coupon ontop of the sale price . I sold it for $150.00 so I held it for a year and made money on it :D. I have been selling alot of doubles this summer as I want the room more than the stuff . That is another high for me a useable space I can work in without having to move 3 things to do one task.


Rick
 
Last edited:

Bronson

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
12,665
Location
Texas panhandle
Glad You are back on the radar, Bill. We really arent holding You to task, although I am sure it feels like it. We are all pulling for You!
I also get a high from buying stuff, often stuff that i dont even need.Then, after I have it, I feel a letdown. I am trying to discipline Myself, and am doing better. This thread has helped Me clean out a lot of clutter in My life....:)
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
Kevin,
A little backsliding, a bit of trouble with CL, and a time crunch and of course, the forward inertia stopped and is hard to get going again. Seems like this time of year everything stacks up and I get overwhelmed.
But each post of encouragement has helped me sort it out in my mind, and I am now getting busy focusing on one item at a time and checking them off.
I am too busy to post just yet. Plus I am still working on getting a good wide route out of the basement to attack that. It (The basement) is still too big a thing to face (Emotionally). But I know I must.
Wife and I are still both placing roadblocks in our own way. Must stop doing this. Let me tell you what it feels like.
When I am on the computer or CL or going to get a "buy", I can feel the endorphins flowing through my body and brain. It's almost like a drug. It makes me feel excited and warm and purposeful and safe and secure. I am in control and have a plan and put it into action with a result.It doesn't help that I was a purchasing agent, and that is what I did (And was good at). I close my eyes to all the realities and live in a dream world where I am building a paradise by simply buying things.
When I am working on cleaning up, it is scary because I see all the faults and problems and think I can't possibly do enough to solve them. I see all the other messes in our lives. It seems hopeless. It is then that I realize the stark reality that buying things does NOT create a paradise, but makes the mess even worse and multiplies my problems. When I am facing things I feel a panic and it's hard to breathe and is very uncomfortable. I want to be back on the computer where the world isn't scary and real.
I am feeling that way right now, just thinking about going down and working. But I must go anyway. I need to accomplish a piece of work and feel the good feelings again, that result from that. That will reinforce and encourage me to do more. I must retrain myself to find pleasure by accomplishment rather than avoidance.
I have not been posting also, because I wanted to drop off the radar and not be held to task every day. That avoidance doesn't help me. So I must go back on the radar and start again with a small list and report on it when it is complete with photos for proof. Sorry folks. You have all been so helpful to me all this way. I won't give up.

Well, back to it.
Short list for today:
1. Clean out living room path to kitchen.
2. Move rest of tools to garage
3. Put buckets in rear yard
4. Bed frame upstairs
5. Trash out kitchen

Bill, there is nothing wrong with the feeling of panic and feeling overwhelmed. And I know what you mean about feeling secure. I've had those feelings and yes it is hard to get over them. I know what you mean about feeling secure, because you KNOW that that portion is something that you can accomplish. Really it's no different than a drug addict or an alcoholic. When they get their "high" they are in their "secure" zone. They have all the answers then even though they may not be right.

But I've said it before Bill, if you are dead serious about this, please call someone for some help. Internet help can only go so far. You need some actual help to get through this. In life there are some things people just cannot do alone no matter how hard we try. We like to THINK we can, but it never makes it. Like I said, I know the feelings and I was there although it was not the same thing you are going through. Finally I KNEW I HAD to do something and made a few phone calls. I finally begged for some help and am getting it. And you know what.....It's really not that bad at all.

The same with you. When you were a purchasing agent, people came to you and you knoew what to do. You were in your zone. You could probably do your job blindfolded. Now you are out of your zone and you are not sure what to do. If you do something, you wonder if it's the right thing or the wrong thing, you're afraid of the ridicule even though it won't come, and you're afraid to ask for help because it might show that you are weak. But asking for help is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign that you've done too much for too long.

And even though most don't want to admit it, no one is getting any younger. Our minds may stay at teh same age, but physically we can't do what we used to. And we only have so many years left. Do you want to spend the rest of them thinking that you'll keep this for that upcoming project that never will get here? In your mind, you keep going over and over the things that you are going to do. You've kept collecting because you may use this and that for future projects. Your main project should be what you've said all along......you and your wife getting back to the way things USED to be. The fun times, cookouts, having friends over, things like that. All the trashed out clothes, rat ****, used lumber, will never bring you that happiness. God forbid, but if something would happen to either one of you, you won't have that happiness that you seek. Get back to simplicity t where you and your wife can do things together other than piss away money. My wife and I used to work every bit of overtime that we could. Before we got together she lost everything in a fire. I lost everything in a divorce. So we worked and worked and worked. We bought a house, a new car, then she became a consultant for Longaberger and started collecting. All kinds of money pissed away on something the bottom fell out of as far as worth. But we continued to work overtime to pay for it and I worked overtime to pay the bills. Then I started to have medical problems that ate up some of the money, then she retired. I finally realized that we were both getting older, our health isn't what it used to be, and time is getting short. I quit working overtime, we quit buying just to be buying, and I found out that we can have a good time together. We work in the yard together, plant flowers together, take rides to see the countryside, take walks, and still have time after that for each other. We have friends over now, where we couldn't too much before because both of us were working so much. It's nice to sit out in the yard in the summer and see the birds and butterflies on the flowers we planted. To watch our trees we planted grow each year, and it's nice t be bored for once because there is nothing that we HAVE to do to our house that can't be finished in a day or so if it crops up. And it's nice to have some extra money to hire someone to fix what I used to have to fix myself. After my arm surgeries I lost the use of my arm to the point that I can't do the things I used to do. Now I don't have to worry about them. And with my wife recently finding out she had cancer and going through the chemo treatments, it makes one sit back and think about how many years we still have together. I wish I had the answer to that but I don't. But at least the years we do have together, we can enjoy them in our home or our landscaped yard that we worked so hard for. And if I hadn't asked for help, I would have consumed myself eventually with all of the thooughts and feelings that I had in my head. I'm glad to say that my wife and I are getting back to where we used to be. So you see Bill, no one is so strong that they can't ask for help. With me it took a doctor, days of crying, and a nervous breakdown to ask for the help, but I finally did and it was the best thing that I ever did, both for me and my wife.

So Bill, if you want to get some help, I'll help you out in any way I can internet wise, or if you want to talk on the phone, PM me your number and I'll give you a call on my nickle. I'd like to see you and your wife get back to simplicity though. Get the clutter out of your lives, get your pipes fixed, and start enjoying the simple things in life instead of the future projects that you will never get to or have time for.
 

gdmclnh

Active member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
26
Location
Central New Hampshire
Bill,

I took the time to read this whole thread. Hang in there. Keep plugging away. You'll get there.

A journey of 1,000 miles starts with one step.

Glenn in NH
 

xtrm4xjp

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
18
Location
AMC town
Bill,

Keep up the good work. I'm not to the point that you are but I have the same afflection with CL deals and getting free stuff from buddies. I recently had a friend die that had a garage in similar shape as mine (parts piled everywhere). I helped her clean it out and that was kind of my wake up call. I have since been trying to gradually get things cleaned up, scraped and sold off. I haven't read this whole thread yet but I want you to know that your an inspuration to me. Keep up the good work.

Anders
 

Dennis Cavallino

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
139
Location
The Netherlands
.... I found out that we can have a good time together. We work in the yard together, plant flowers together, take rides to see the countryside, take walks, and still have time after that for each other. We have friends over now, where we couldn't too much before because both of us were working so much. It's nice to sit out in the yard in the summer and see the birds and butterflies on the flowers we planted. To watch our trees we planted grow each year, and it's nice t be bored for once because there is nothing that we HAVE to do to our house that can't be finished in a day or so if it crops up. And it's nice to have some extra money to hire someone to fix what I used to have to fix myself.

That's what I do and I'm just 33 (GF is 25). Life is too short to work 24/7.
 

Dennis Cavallino

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
139
Location
The Netherlands
Hey Bill ,I think Dennis has given you great advise,and i see many people are giving you advise, good advise at that.I can relate to your problem but my situation is not as extreme as yours.Structure has just been mentioned here and I know about lack of structure.I found out about 10 yrs ago that i have ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder).So time management and organization are not my strong points.People who are ADHD are often depressed and therefore lack energy and motivation.I am still fighting this everyday I am seperated and live alone which makes it tough.There is no one to remind me of what the plan is........... You have your wife but she seems to have the same issues .Im no expert but I think you are depressed .Its something that you just cant shake out of in fact if you become depressed for too long you may not be able to shake it without medical help...........its not like you give yourself a slap in the side of the head and snap out of it.......its great that you have the motivation to start changing things so keep it up...................If you know someone with good management and organizational skills that you can trust it would be a big help.But I know its hard inviting people in with your situation........I know that so much has been said already on here and Im trying not to repeat what youve already heard.............But even if you could get everything in order today you need to come to the realization that the collecting is just a symptom.So you need to address that or your issue may in the long term never be resolved.............On a more technical note I think that if there is an odor coming from your basement you may no longer be able to smell it.Its overwhelmed your Olfactry (sp) system by now.The problem is everyone else can smell it!There was a case here just recently of a woman who had over 120 cats,one day two woman came to the door compiling a voter registration.When no one answered and they noticed the smell they reported that someone might have died.That got the city involved they forced her out and took all the cats .Im not sure of the eventual outcome.But I know you want to avoid this potential situation so i think you need to focus on the basement right now.The smell will permeate the entire house and you wont even notice it!............If your wife works in an office other co workers might notice so you really need to address the basement................i dont know if any of this helps but keep going at it.......Kirk

I also have ADHD (the combined type) and I don't use medicins (Concerta) anymore, because after diagnoses at the age of 31 I finally understood how my brain worked. I'm aware of myself and try to use it in a better way and I just accept my failures once in a while. It puts a smile on my face now. I added more structure in life. We bought a house with more daylight/sunlight. I quit my boring job (and my boss sold the company because the work really sucked for him as well) and now I only do things that I really like. My (winter)depressions didn't return, I'm completely in balance now (Zen... Hehe). Even when my dad died a year ago, it didn't pull me down. Hopefully I can contribute a little of my experiences here with Bill (and others).

One thing my girlfriend and I have learnd is the fact that the word "MUST" is like building a concrete block around me. When someone tells me that "I must do the dishes" I simply won't do it. I can't. And that's funny, because when someone says nothing, I'll do it by myself at free will. And when my girlfriend says; "I'm so tired and I still have to do th dishes" than I just say I'll do it for her.

We also found out that she can really mess with my 'anti-must' tic by saying things like; "you must not do the dishes". :shocking: :lol_hitti and when she wants my full attention she says: "you must not kiss me". :)

Since we are both aware of it, she does a lot of things I hate (paying bills, fill in forms, just stupid stuff I hate, but she doesn't really bother doing it).

Ow and Bill, I mean it to reduce To Do lists to only 3 items a day. And when that doesn't even work, start with only one item a day. When it's done, it's done. :thumbup:
 

dave67fd

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Messages
872
Location
Southern NH
Hi Bill,
I caught your thread at the beginning but missed it abit along the way. Sorry, I did not realize the extent of your problem.

It seems many here have posted stories of their problems to you to help you realize that most all of us have problems, some larger than others and that you are not alone in yours.

My parents were horders. My wife and i stepped up to be the ones left to deal with the burden of their problems. My two brothers (one lives out of state) and my sister, in the realm of things were little to no help.

I know of the basement clutter as it is the place were things were dragged to to keep space upstairs. I knew of all this happening years before but did nothing of it as i was busy raising my own family and working hard to support it. I guess i just didn't want to admit to myself the extent of the problem then.
Once the basement became full all other rooms began to fill around their "living" area.

My dad was addicted to buying from TV and magazines. My mom wouldn't throw away anything much less than a plastic bag. They at least threw away garabage and most trash.

In short, my mom passed away from diaietes and my dad (who was severely overweight, had a stroke and is now in a health rehab facility). They had a reverse mortgage on the house so we had to pretty much let it go to the mortgage company.

We filled 2 40yd dumpsters. Of course that doesn't include 3 visits from the metal scrap guy who hauled away 3 large dump trucks full of metal (after crushing on site) ,close to 75 runs in my 8' bed Super Duty and several visits from friends to take stuff they wanted. We also filled a 10x 8 storage facility with items of interest and left probably enough stuff to fill another 40yd dumpster (it was in the contract that we could leave it). All of this from a 26 x 40 single level ranch.

Of course this was all the easy stuff. They left with being $75k in debt, not a cent to their name and no assests other than a condo in Hawaii (that was costing $340 month) which also became a foreclosure.

Anyway, enough about me. I think if you wake up each morning, right off, think of something positive instead of the dilemma your in.

Maybe this has already been mentioned but if your addicted to CL, find a couple things each day that you can set in a pile that you can SELL on CL. Once you have a few items for sale, keep busy with tracking their progress and updating them. This may help you from BUYING and will help alleviate the CL buying. Once you sell something you could offer the buyer if they are interested in anything else in the home if their willing to enter.

Anyway, keep the faith, stay positive and good luck. We are all praying for you.

Dave
 
Last edited:

JC23

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
11,718
Location
Northcoast
Bill, I learned a long time ago that a big part of any success is the number one.

You've already heard about doing one thing at a time and having one goal in front of you at all times. So I'll add one of my faves, often said by the late NASCAR driver, Davey Allison.
He said it comes down to getting up ONE more time than you are knocked down.

As usual, hope this helps...
 

-->

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
1,501
Location
NY outer borrough.
Wow. I read this whole thread on and off during the day. After I started it , I was motivated to start throwing **** out of my yard! And now I'm beginning to see a problem forming.... I just now finished it and am completely shocked just how bad you guys have it there! I would love to advise you to just dumpster it all but I know how hard that is to even fathom! Wow. I think you should make the heat and water a priority for safetys sake! I have family on town over and they tell me the winters there are ferocious, meaning you are in a whole world of ouch when november rolls around..... Please please let somebody help you get the basics back! SCREW THE DAMN CABLE AND GET SOME WATER GOING!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you're willing to accept the help, I'll contribute what I can spare. But it should be paid directly to the contractor or whoever does the help/work , because I'd be hard pressed to NOT spend it on craigslist myself :( Good luck there guys! Fight the good fight, and I'm watching from the bleachers (while trying to find them )
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom