Grunge Garage

[Kevin54]

This sums it up. And it is for all types of addictions not just hoarding, or alcohol, or drug, but any type of addiction.

One of the biggest mistakes that families make is trying to keep an addiction a secret and dealing with it alone. The disease of addiction is tricky and sophisticated, and recovery begins with the family. Most families don't have the tools or the knowledge needed to help an addict overcome his or her dependency without the help of an outside professional. And the addict certainly can't be counted on to help him or herself. If an addict had the coping mechanisms necessary for self-regulation, he or she wouldn't have become an addict.

This is from another site and has some interesting reading. http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/harmless-pack-rat-or-compulsive-hoarder I know that at one time or another almost everyone of us has done the same thing. Some maybe moreso that others but we have all done it.

People may hoard objects for many reasons, says Michael Tompkins, PhD, a psychologist and co-author of Digging Out: Helping Your Loved One Manage Clutter, Hoarding, and Compulsive Acquiring. These include:
An intense emotional attachment to objects that others see as trivial -- or even trash.

They’d feel a sense of major loss if they had to throw this stuff away.


A sense that many items have an intrinsic value, like others might see in artwork or driftwood.


The assumption that an item might be useful someday, which compels them to save far more than “the drawer of hinges, thumbtacks, string, and rubber bands” that many of us keep.

So how many of us have made the last statement that it "might be useful someday"?

I know that I have and my wife has. I learned it from my father. It took a while but I broke myself of that by getting rid of excess when I was done with it. Albeit I did get my *** chewed by my wife on a few ocassions when she looked out the window and saw a huge burnpile. Lol!!!

 

[Holedgr]

Goddamn it, Bill...never met ya, but after reading some of this...I'd really like to now! I am very local to you...I would be willing to help in any way I can...I have some resources that may prove useful and at least I could lend a hand...You can PM me if you want and I'll respond with my cell #....Help is here if you need it.

BTW....Honestly....I'd probably just drive you insane asking you questions about your plane and ultralight hobby..LOL


-Tony

 

[welder4956]

This thread has all the drama, suspense, thrills and chills of a good book or movie! I am in it to the (successful) end. You are doing great Bill. We all have periodic setbacks when trying to make progress, that's just part of the process. Stay the course and envision what you want to have accomplished by the end of each day, and you WILL get there.

 

[Nighttrain]

Its a brand new month Bill and fiscal year today. Get up and start fresh. Don't look behind (or at CL) but just foward. Get just one bin full of trash today, anymore is a bonus. Let us know tonight how you did. Were all here with you brother!

 

[kirk.g]

Hi Bill ,Listen if you want I might be able to make it down your way also(like Holedgr).Im a few hrs drive from you but its not all that far.I can bring the pickup if that helps in doing some hauling away..............You have cl issue I have an Ebay issue and a problem collecting toooo many projects .I have 7 Ford half-ton pickups ranging from 1950-1974, If I see one Ive gotta have it! Right now only 2 are on the road and I still dont have a garage that ive finished reairing so I can work on them...............I think Kevin is correct about having some expert involvment regarding addictiion.Im not that crazy about experts because I think they overcharge for what they offer but sometimes they are necessary...........If you had enough people you could get a lot more done......so let me know......Kirk.......................................................................................................Dennis Its good to hear from someone on here who has some of the same problems maybe you could PM me and we could talk more....thsnks

 

[kirk.g]

Im just wondering: actually I know there are guys on here who collect way too many vehicle projects.It would be interesting to hear from some of you?I know I do this and I also have trouble getting rid of Items....Kirk

 

[kirk.g]

I just read Kevin,s link and its what I have been thinking about all along.Depression is a motivation stopper, it can and does become chronic so intervention is needed usually on the medical side......and yes winters in Detroit are cold.....Kirk

 

[70Chevy]

Goddamn it, Bill...never met ya, but after reading some of this...I'd really like to now! I am very local to you...I would be willing to help in any way I can...I have some resources that may prove useful and at least I could lend a hand...You can PM me if you want and I'll respond with my cell #....Help is here if you need it.



-Tony

X2

Brian

 

[BlueSuedeShoe]

Hi Bill, I want to thank you for opening this thread! And I want to thank all of you for sharing your insights into this problem!

I as well come from a family of hoarders, as does my husband.
My dad even goes to the junkyard to look for treasures. I have to admit he does find good stuff at times (like an i-pod, cell-phone, three wheeler for the kid...) but most of the things he finds need to be fixed first. Unfortunately he usually thinks that we could 'use' some of it, or at least just keep it because we have a big house (not really, it's just bigger than his).
My husband is quite a collector as well. He keeps pretty much everything because he says we may need it someday or we might like to use it for crafts or whatever. He loves model-kits of cars and airplanes and has hundreds of them. To that you can add probably around 4000 little toy cars. Plus 4 real cars (BMW 2002 tii, BMW 2002 Alpina, Alpine Renault 110 and Fiat X 1/9) that are waiting to be fixed. Kirk, I think you asked... Not to mention all the books, the comics, the magazines, the junk...
We have 1,5 rooms in our house, the basement, two garages, lots of space at friend's homes and his mother's home all filled with his stuff.

It just overwhelms me. You never really know where to put it, it's always in the way.

Up until a few years ago, I as well used to collect all kinds of things and coulnd't throw anything away either. But then I found the relief that it brings when you give things away. Be it charity, ebay or the trash. There's a clarity that comes when you get rid of the stuff that you don't need anymore. And I feel relieved of a burden. The nice thing is that I can use the things that I do want to use much better because I don't have to make room first or worse: find them first!
Unfortunately my husband hasn't found that out yet. In the last few months it's become a constant source of friction between us. I don't just want to keep things so I have them. I only like to keep things that are important to me. It bothers me when there's a room in our house that I can hardly walk through because everything is piled up everywhere. I hate that, it makes me feel out of control of my own living spaces. So I start offering help and advice, often I start nagging and he of course feels controlled by me and gets pissed.
We have two garages, I can't use none of them! Last week I looked through all the pictures of these nice garages in this forum and I started crying. Why don't we find a way to have one like these?
I absolutely understand why lots of hoarder marriages are doomed to fail. I sometimes dream of a tiny little apartment for me and my family where only the necessary things are in.

Bill, I can absolutely relate to your positive experiences when you find tools you didn't even know you had. Or when you had that little space in your garage cleared out and put your machine there. I wish you a lot more of those good days and I'm sure you will take care of yourself so you'll have a lot more good days to come.
Please keep posting your little successes, because it's so inspiring! Maybe one day my husband will read this thread too, maybe it'll inspire him as well.

 

[rickairmedic]

Bluesuedeshoe thank you for posting . I am also a collector of **** and I will give you some good news I have decided in the last few years that I have to much **** . I dont have the whole house filled mind you . The only thing I have in the house is a small collection of magazines " mostly auto and metal working related " in my nightstand . The rest of my magazine collection goes into some cabinets in " my garage " . I also have a collection of car models and related stuff in the store room in the basement . I was up to 4 boats and 2 early 60's Ford trucks " all full sized . I am down to 3 boats with one currently for sale and will get down to the one " keeper " . The 2 trucks will be combined to make one and the leftovers will be sold and whats left of that will be scrapped after the one truck is finished . I have also been going through my garage and tossing out junk I have saved for " someday " and as I bring a better tool home I sell off the one it is replacing .

I can only hope for Bill and his wife that they seek profesional help with this as honestly I dont think they will get where Bill wants to get without it . Yes Bill I know you have been craigslisting again I saw the thread on the new jewlers drill press . I have said and will repeat you need to stay off of CL until you are done with finding your home and then remember if a tool comes in a tool must leave . I will honestly say it saddens me that 2 good quality Lathes and a Brigeport mill are rotting away out in your yard as I would love to have any of them to actually use .


Rick

 

[Holedgr]

o.k. wtf??? I just read all the pages...no water or heat?? Bill...I can help....I can get ya some running water....I'm a contractor...I wil pm you my business name and all for you to check me out if you like...You need to let people help...It helps us feel good too to help people , so you're helping us! Really...

Don't make me track you down...

-T

 

[B4S]

Another newbie here, rooting for you from the North (Ottawa, Canada). I recently tore my garage apart and threw away 2500# of engines, transmissions, metal scrap, and miscellaneous steel frippery because I couldn't even move around safely. It was nowhere near as big a job as you have been tackling, but the sense of peace that followed was simply the best feeling I've experienced in a long time.

I respect you sir, the physical work is the easiest part of this. You're tackling a bigger demon than most of us could ever even realize...and you're doing it in 'public'. Brass cahones, coated in steel .

This part of Canada's got good vibes coming your way .

 

[Modern Jess]

Im just wondering: actually I know there are guys on here who collect way too many vehicle projects.It would be interesting to hear from some of you?

I've been following this thread for a couple weeks, and haven't had anything to add until now.

My name is Jess and I have a scooter problem.

Yep, scooters. Vespas, mostly. I always joke that scooters are a disease, you get one and then it spreads and before you know it you're cramming parts under the crawlspace of your house for "someday". And I'm not alone -- I have a bunch of friends with the same disease. Clearly, it's contagious.

I think (I'm not sure) that I currently have six whole scooters, and a few more in parts. Plus a couple frames. Plus extra engines. Plus lots of parts stripped from bikes that were too far gone.

My wife has three more scooters. She's resistant.

Let's just say that I can sympathize and identify with the OP on this one, although to a much lesser degree. I know what it's like to hoard stuff, and I know what it's like to accumulate so much stuff that it feels like you're drowning. I was fortunate enough to buy a new house recently, and it gave me the opportunity to really take a long, hard look at what I wanted to keep and what needed to be given away to friends / goodwill / the dump.

But not the scooter parts. I'm keeping those.

 

[tinbender 66]

C'mon Bill, ya gotta get up and keep going.

 

[markviii]

The weather's holding up just fine. Days should be in the 60s-70s with no chance of rain until next Wednesday. Sun always helps my mood. I'm sure it helps with your motivation to keep moving forward. Hope you have a productive week.

Chris

 

[98TJ]

My name is Jess and I have a scooter problem.

Yep, scooters. Vespas, mostly. I always joke that scooters are a disease, you get one and then it spreads and before you know it you're cramming parts under the crawlspace of your house for "someday". And I'm not alone -- I have a bunch of friends with the same disease. Clearly, it's contagious.

I think (I'm not sure) that I currently have six whole scooters, and a few more in parts. Plus a couple frames. Plus extra engines. Plus lots of parts stripped from bikes that were too far gone.

My wife has three more scooters. She's resistant.

Let's just say that I can sympathize and identify with the OP on this one, although to a much lesser degree. I know what it's like to hoard stuff, and I know what it's like to accumulate so much stuff that it feels like you're drowning. I was fortunate enough to buy a new house recently, and it gave me the opportunity to really take a long, hard look at what I wanted to keep and what needed to be given away to friends / goodwill / the dump.

But not the scooter parts. I'm keeping those.

Sounds about like me and bicycles right now. Between me, the wife, and our kids, we have 15 bicycles in the garage - all rideable. I was cleaning tonight and realized how many we had. Had a thought to get rid of some, but they're all unique and there's a story to them.

I wanted to clear up space from my old hobby (radio control) because, when I was an Assistant Editor for Fly RC, RC Driver,and started RC Crawler, the hobby/work literally took over my house. I had so much **** that I felt overwhelmed by it all. Our sun room was stacked with boxes, the office was stacked, the garage was stacked, and it often took over the living room when my wife was deployed.

So I decided that it was time to clear the stuff out when we moved to our new house. I filled eight 42 gallon trash bags with vehicles and parts. When I got to the dump I found the axle of the rig I drove to a Nationals win in 2006 sticking out of the bag. That was in 2009, and I didn't throw everything away. I still have two 4ft shelves of stuff in the garage, some large planes hanging in the house, and a closet full of planes.

I haven't touched any of it since 2009. I'm to the point that I don't want to see any of it or even mess with it. I put stuff up for sale once in a while so I can get something out of it, but I'm to the point that I'd rather throw it all away so I don't have to mess with it - or see it again.

So today I pulled the Jeep and FJ40 out of the garage and started cleaning. I threw out more stuff that was taking up space and I hadn't touched in over two years. Two 42 gallon bags and a few boxes of trash. Even though the garage is a mess from opening boxes and moving them around, I've cleared up quite a bit of space, gotten rid of things I don't need, and found things I'd forgotten I owned.

I'm nowhere near done, but it feels good to make progress.

 

[rickairmedic]

Bill buddy its been 3 days how you doin up there


Rick

 

[Kevin54]

Bill, I hope you are not just avoiding us. Not of this was meant to drive you away but to give you encouragement.

One thing to be very proud of, because of you and your starting of this thread, it has helped quite a few others in their quest for cleanup

C'Mon back Bill!!!!

 

[bczygan]

Still here. Haven't done anything of note except still dragging old clothes out of spare bedroom. Today I will throw out clothes that were peed on my rats. Tomorrow is pickup day so must get a bunch out. Still can't get to basement, or face it. Wife wants to go to WI for a trailer tomorrow and thru the weekend. I am resisting as car needs work and we can't afford it. Been sick with cold and sneezing from dust. Am going to use mask today. Big plans for what I wanted to accomplish, but didn't follow through. I takes a fire in the belly to get going. I need to reprint the last list and start checking it off:

1. Clean out living room path to kitchen.
2. Move rest of tools to garage
3. Put buckets in rear yard Done
4. Bed frame upstairs
5. Trash out kitchen
6. Ruined clothes in trash
7. Leaf blower walks and curbs Done

 

[markviii]

You did make progress by dragging those old clothes out of the spare bedroom (just make sure you dispose of them instead of re-sorting/storing them). Good idea to use the mask at all times while sorting/tossing stuff. I hope you're successful in avoiding the road trip that you can't afford anyway. Another load for garbage pick-up day is a step in the right direction!

Chris
you beat me to the list!

 

[Bronson]

Another trailer?! For God's sake.....

 

[JC23]

Good on ya, Bill!

Ya gotta be in the race to finish and ya gotta finish to win the race.

You're using that 'Eat an Elephant' program just right. One step at a time, Dude.

And if'n you can stand one more analogy, Babe Ruth also held the record for strike outs proving you gotta try in order to succeed.

Don't let those minor setbacks stay with ya. Keep moving forward like you are!

 

[98TJ]

Wife wants to go to WI for a trailer tomorrow and thru the weekend. I am resisting as car needs work and we can't afford it.

I am resisting as car needs work and we can't afford it.

Good. Put your foot down and say no. That's a valid reason not to go.

Stick to it, Bill.

 

[Strouty]

Why don't you just get a dumpster, if you can still spend money, spend it in the right place. You have just been using the "I can only throw out 3 bins per week" as an excuse and it is getting on my nerves. You probably don't have a cold, but are actually sick from all the **** you stirred up while cleaning. With everyone offering to help you physically, mentally, and even financially you are kind of slapping them in the face. People have offered money towards a dumpster, grow up and take it. People have offered to come and help with the water and heat issue, get over yourself and let them help. I don't want to read about a couple that froze to death in there sleep this winter. I am sure it is embarrassing, but we are trying to help you. So what if someone is appalled by the conditions you live in, you can take the help and make those conditions better. I have a dumpster at my shop, it is a 2 yard, it takes up a little space, they dump it four times a month for $96 if I go to a 4 yard it is $128 a month. I am sure there are price differences due to locations, but it can't be that much.

I see a little of me in you, the part of me that I don't like to admit exists, that is why I am being so hard on you.

TAKE THE F$$$ING HELP!

 

[bczygan]

Why don't you just get a dumpster, if you can still spend money, spend it in the right place. You have just been using the "I can only throw out 3 bins per week" as an excuse and it is getting on my nerves. You probably don't have a cold, but are actually sick from all the **** you stirred up while cleaning. With everyone offering to help you physically, mentally, and even financially you are kind of slapping them in the face. People have offered money towards a dumpster, grow up and take it. People have offered to come and help with the water and heat issue, get over yourself and let them help. I don't want to read about a couple that froze to death in there sleep this winter. I am sure it is embarrassing, but we are trying to help you. So what if someone is appalled by the conditions you live in, you can take the help and make those conditions better. I have a dumpster at my shop, it is a 2 yard, it takes up a little space, they dump it four times a month for $96 if I go to a 4 yard it is $128 a month. I am sure there are price differences due to locations, but it can't be that much.

I see a little of me in you, the part of me that I don't like to admit exists, that is why I am being so hard on you.

TAKE THE F$$$ING HELP!

A good part of the problem is the hoarder (Me), needs to be in control. Having control over stuff is a form of security. I am going to take some help. I can't possibly do it all alone.

 

[bczygan]

Not only respiratory is effected by the dust. My eyes are getting constantly irritated and infected. Using lots of Visene.

 

[Strouty]

I know what you mean about control, but the stuff actually has control of you, these helpers would allow you to get back in control of the stuff. I know it is so easy to say and very hard to apply, but you have to think that way. Also they make full masks for that, be careful rats and mice are bubonic plague material!

 

[70Chevy]

If it's mold that is becoming airborne, a mist of water before moving stuff can help. Stuff should be bagged in that room and then out to the curb.
If you buy a trailer, make it a utility trailer that we can load up and take to the dump!

Bill, are you in the city of Detroit or a suburb?

 

[csp]

The perception:

A good part of the problem is the hoarder (Me), needs to be in control. Having control over stuff is a form of security.

The reality of the situation:

I know what you mean about control, but the stuff actually has control of you

 

[Strouty]

^^^^^^^exactly!^^^^^^^

 

[bczygan]

Halfway through cleaning off the main stairway. Yeah, I know, scattered. Start on one thing,,,,do another. Needed safer access to and from second floor. Photos to follow today.

 

[Strouty]

Halfway through cleaning off the main stairway. Yeah, I know, scattered. Start on one thing,,,,do another. Needed safer access to and from second floor. Photos to follow today.

Sounds like the best approach, you can't keep things clean with broken legs from falling down cluttered stairs now can you?

 

[hungrymonkey]

Have you looked into counseling or any other form of professional mental health support?

I honestly only joined this forum after reading this thread, I was content with just browsing the forums. I joined to wish you luck.
I personally cannot wrap my head around the components of hoarding. To me, I see a wall of trash. Coupled with what must be a massive rodent problem, no running water, no heat, and no sanitary way to get rid of your excrement!

 

[rickairmedic]

Bill if nothing else I think you have drug more people out of the bleachers than even the Omnipotent Jack Olsen .


Rick

 

[kirk.g]

Bill you need to know something:it only takes maybe one or two of your neibhors to make a call.Then you may not have any control at all.Be it health,property standards,fire any one of these can take over control and then you can only watch......Being as Detroit already has more than its share of problems its probably gone in youre favor but dont push it..............People have offered to help,but we dont want to be shivering our butts off in November or December!......So why dont you get something co ordinated or let someone on here do that and get back to you.I said I will come but I aint comming in January..BRRRRR!.................Also can you haul stuff to the local dump in Detroit?..........thanks Kirk

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

It's like watching a train wreck, only to realize the train derailed into an orphanage, then we find out the orphanage is just a front for a black market for child slavery in the drug trade. We keep hoping for a miracle to happen and a happy ending. Its a sad series of unfortunate circumstance surrounded by travesty, compounded by denial, and magnified by rose-colored blinders! Its way past due for a serious, on-going intervention and counseling. I wish the best for both of you.

 

[JSBriggs]

Bill if nothing else I think you have drug more people out of the bleachers than even the Omnipotent Jack Olsen .


Rick

Bill,
I admire you courage in facing your demons. We are all pulling for you. Give Tony(Holedgr) a call, and get another set of hands involved with the safety issues (plumbing, heat etc). Have you looked into getting some councing, either profesional, or at the very least get someone you trust to get together with you once a week and help with the mental aspects of what your going through.

-Jeff

 

[bczygan]

Jeff,
I will get counseling help when I can or if I reach a total mental impasse. Right now I'm racing weather. I have responded to a kind GJ member who reached out to me and I WILL accept help. This will SUCCEED. (I had to mentally search for that word for a moment). Even beyond my own benefit, I couldn't let all the helpful and supportive GJ members down...may not proceed as fast or smooth as some may like. But it will succeed.

 

[Nighttrain]

I have responded to a kind GJ member who reached out to me and I WILL accept help.

Bill thats a HUGE STEP.

 

[JSBriggs]

Bill, that is good to hear about accepting help. Im very hesitant to accept (or even ask for) help myself, so I understand what a huge step that is. Keep moving forward.

I would suggest since you are racing the weather, make sure you make the most of the daylight. Save the screen time for the evenings once it gets dark. We are all cheering you on.

-Jeff