Grunge Garage
- Thread starter bczygan
- Start date
- Status
Need4racin
Banned
Can't wait to see you start making some money off that hoard!!
Remember Bill liquid assets $$$$$$
Remember Bill liquid assets $$$$$$
STINEY
Well-known member
I've been following this with great interest for 3 weeks now.
You guys have finally figured it out. It isn't a matter of how to do it..........in the hoarders mind its a matter of does it present a problem?
The hoarder (figuratively, not pointing fingers at you Bill, and I am extremely impressed with what you have accomplished so far, more on that later) puts up some weird kind of mental block that actually prevents them from seeing reality. It is mind-boggling to the rest of us, but it is true. They are incapable of seeing the obstructions to happines in their lives, and seek solace in inanimate objects or animals, where they actually recieve (in their mind) a sense of accomplishment.
I.E. - saving items that others would throw out, or unwanted animals.
So does this shed any light on why it is impossible to help by merely cleaning up for them? The cycle cannot be stopped by giving a hand and putting things to right, where normal life can continue. Normal life was derailed long ago in the mind of the hoarder.
And it also explains why nearly all hoarders manage to negate previous cleanups within months. They are searching to fill a void that doesn't exist in reality, but they are a motivated bunch in that regard, their efforts to fill and refill that imaginary void are incredible, if counterproductive, you have to give them that.
Imagine if all that effort could be focused.
Bill, you have never mentioned that I recall - - do you have kids?
You guys have finally figured it out. It isn't a matter of how to do it..........in the hoarders mind its a matter of does it present a problem?
The hoarder (figuratively, not pointing fingers at you Bill, and I am extremely impressed with what you have accomplished so far, more on that later) puts up some weird kind of mental block that actually prevents them from seeing reality. It is mind-boggling to the rest of us, but it is true. They are incapable of seeing the obstructions to happines in their lives, and seek solace in inanimate objects or animals, where they actually recieve (in their mind) a sense of accomplishment.
I.E. - saving items that others would throw out, or unwanted animals.
So does this shed any light on why it is impossible to help by merely cleaning up for them? The cycle cannot be stopped by giving a hand and putting things to right, where normal life can continue. Normal life was derailed long ago in the mind of the hoarder.
And it also explains why nearly all hoarders manage to negate previous cleanups within months. They are searching to fill a void that doesn't exist in reality, but they are a motivated bunch in that regard, their efforts to fill and refill that imaginary void are incredible, if counterproductive, you have to give them that.
Imagine if all that effort could be focused.
Bill, you have never mentioned that I recall - - do you have kids?
Ole_Red
Well-known member
morfmedia
Well-known member
Bill: None of this will be easy for anyone. Glad you have the mrs on side for SELLING things rather than buying, a problem shared is a problem halved, in your case probably literally! Was I right in reading you have a plane, is it serviced / maintained, that sounds like a valuable asset that could pay for maintenance / labour / removals etc... I'm sure it would be heartbreaking to sell but cash in the pocket is more useful than things you're not using. Get all those pop ups sold too.
Holedgr + chevy you guys are very helpful! It's never too early for a beer so long as you've earnt it and I think your effort today makes it sound like you have.
Holedgr + chevy you guys are very helpful! It's never too early for a beer so long as you've earnt it and I think your effort today makes it sound like you have.
mdbeck1
Well-known member
I was travelling all last week and wondering what had become of Bill. I just finished reading this post and I think that you've finally decided to get on the wagon. WAY TO GO BILL!!!
When you get a preliminary list of what you are interested in selling you might want to post it up here. I'm sure the members would all be interested. In fact it might widen the area of selling. I'm a LONG way away but if you have something of interest and we can figure out how to get it here I'd probably buy it.
Once you get that list up I think you will have cut a big chunk off of that elephant.
mdbeck1
Well-known member
Bill, it's great reading that you're doing good!
In German there is a saying that goes "Kleinvieh macht auch Mist". It essentially means that every step, how little it might be, brings you closer to your destination/goal. I'm sure there is an English equivalent, I just don't remember it.
That's what came to my mind when I read your latest posts. You keep doing your steps and that's a good thing. It'll probably take you less time cleaning everything up than it took you to mess up the house.
Like I said in my earlier post I've been travelling and read the post here. I think that the English equivalent of this is something like:
Every journey of 1000 mile begins with a single step.
I think that the quote is from Confusious (sp?) but could easily be mistaken.
Bill,
YOU took that first step (and several more after that). You need to take a bunch more. I think the best one that I have seen to date is that your wife is now on board with SELLING on CL. GO MAN GO!!!!!
Bill, I know you and Julie have alot in front of you but keep reciting these 4 words as you go along.
"DO I NEED IT?????" and NOT "can I use it?"
Oh, and keep some notes (only on the things that you keep) and look back on them every few days/weeks. You will begin to see some of the things that you thought you needed and thought were important in the beginning, no longer are. That is when you will clearly see the change in your mindset.
Sometimes the best encouragement for anyone can be seeing their own successes.
"DO I NEED IT?????" and NOT "can I use it?"
Oh, and keep some notes (only on the things that you keep) and look back on them every few days/weeks. You will begin to see some of the things that you thought you needed and thought were important in the beginning, no longer are. That is when you will clearly see the change in your mindset.
Sometimes the best encouragement for anyone can be seeing their own successes.
X 1000
Boy did you get that right. It's a fear that you have to assemble all the THINGS you need to prepare you for any eventuality and protect you from future need. I think I am building a big country estate with pole barn, shop and accumulating everything needed to build and equip it. My wife is assembling everything to furnish a future perfect house in the country we will never have. I almost can't bear to throw away plastic bags from the grocery store. In fact I get a supply of extra ones every time I go. The idea of it just being me sitting in an empty room with just my own wits looking into the future, is scary.
More important than accepting or not accepting help is getting to the point where I can accept the idea of living with less without panic. Panic is what I have felt this afternoon. I think I need to do this myself because I need to learn to throw things away or sell them of give them away myself. I need to learn to do it without panic. If someone has me leave town and does it for me, I will just start getting things to refill my comfort zone. My wife feels the same way. She was trying to talk me into looking at a kayak on CL. Her fear was it would be sold before we could get it. She said there would never be another deal like that. It is an irrational attachment to things and a fear of losing them. When shopping, once she puts something in the cart, she can never put it back. Once I see something on CL, that catches my eye, I can't get it out of my mind. I must have it. Once I have it, and use it once, it becomes less important. I still don't want to part with it though. It defines me. I'm the guy with"X or Y or Z".
So I have to learn to let go.
I just made a call that will get rid of something I have held onto for the last 3 years, that I shouldn't have.
I'm going to keep doing that and see if I can build up a supply of good feelings as a result. It's going to take some practice.
I see by the basement pics that you are at a crossroads. You've got the makings of a really nice space (I see the wire shelving, etc.) but it's a few steps from being there.
You've got a man with a plan (Holedgr & Brian,) your wife is lending support and has expressed pride in your progress, you've got the time, and the support of the board members behind you. I think you're at the crest of a real uphill battle.
Take that unusable paint and other chemicals to your hazardous waste facility. They usually accept so much per person per week and they might have a "clean-up day" once or twice per year that allows greater quantities to be brought in. 6yds for $70 and Holedgr's help will go a long way to clean up that space.
Turn your stuff into cash, and get the tax man apeased for awhile. You've already "bought low," so even if you don't "sell high" you'll still get your investment back.
Holedgr said it, and you know it, that the biggest obstacle is in your head. Even if your perspective makes it hard to part with what you've accumulated, it's still your call. As Guy Clark (my favorite Texas songwriter) says: "Straighten up and fly right."
Don't start thinking about a different house, etc. Until you lick this problem, a new place is just a blank canvas to re-fill with old paint.
Go back and look at what the 1930's Garage started as. Granted, those two are forces of nature, but they did it the same way you have to - piece by piece.
Lastly - If you have decided to have pets, you've commited to their good treatment. Food, fresh water, shelter, and clean-up. I respect the autonomy of others to live as they have chosen, but those animals don't get the choice, and they deserve good living conditions.
You've got a man with a plan (Holedgr & Brian,) your wife is lending support and has expressed pride in your progress, you've got the time, and the support of the board members behind you. I think you're at the crest of a real uphill battle.
Take that unusable paint and other chemicals to your hazardous waste facility. They usually accept so much per person per week and they might have a "clean-up day" once or twice per year that allows greater quantities to be brought in. 6yds for $70 and Holedgr's help will go a long way to clean up that space.
Turn your stuff into cash, and get the tax man apeased for awhile. You've already "bought low," so even if you don't "sell high" you'll still get your investment back.
Holedgr said it, and you know it, that the biggest obstacle is in your head. Even if your perspective makes it hard to part with what you've accumulated, it's still your call. As Guy Clark (my favorite Texas songwriter) says: "Straighten up and fly right."
Don't start thinking about a different house, etc. Until you lick this problem, a new place is just a blank canvas to re-fill with old paint.
Go back and look at what the 1930's Garage started as. Granted, those two are forces of nature, but they did it the same way you have to - piece by piece.
Lastly - If you have decided to have pets, you've commited to their good treatment. Food, fresh water, shelter, and clean-up. I respect the autonomy of others to live as they have chosen, but those animals don't get the choice, and they deserve good living conditions.
kirk.g
Well-known member
Bill your realization and the psychohistorical analytical stuff isnt going to stop winter from coming on.Jeez you just look for excuses to back track.Now you think youre Frank Sinatra "i did it my way".The time for doing it your way has past dont you see that........If the nail has been hit on the head and you understand yourself so well now then its time to move forward.Its not an excuse to fall back and and do things at your own pace......What you are saying is ,you went to the edge and have decided you dont want help!..............winter is coming you have no heat, no water, and a roof that leaks.You are your own worst enemy but you are in control?.....When someone who doesnt care about any of this comes to your door in a few months and says"Mr Bill you have two choices either you give me 6000$ right now or kindly vacate".....I think then you will know what panic is!...............The economy is in poor shape Detroit has probably had more than its fair share.There are thousands millions out there who are not getting any help at all......so do the practical take the help while you can.
Just so everyone out there knows...I spent 2 hours there today....went in or saw EVERY room and square yard of this property including inside the airstream...The way Bill portrays it, even with pics, is ********* of the reality.
I am of the opinion that all these "pat on the back" posts are diluting Bill's focus and giving him a false sense of accomplishment. Post what you will, but as I've asked previously....give it serious thought first. This forum has become his new "feel good" mechanism....He's feeding on your comments.
I gotta go....I'll post a write-up tonight...
-T
I am of the opinion that all these "pat on the back" posts are diluting Bill's focus and giving him a false sense of accomplishment. Post what you will, but as I've asked previously....give it serious thought first. This forum has become his new "feel good" mechanism....He's feeding on your comments.
I gotta go....I'll post a write-up tonight...
-T
98TJ
Well-known member
I missed where you brought up taxes but after seeing others mention it I had to search the thread.
I can say that this is the one thread on here where I get frustrated while reading through it.
Bill, you don't "need a day to let it gel in your head" or anything like that. I can tell by the way you type that you're an intelligent person so stop fawkin' around and act like it.
It's been over two months since you started this thread.
Have you completely cleaned a single room in the house?
Why not?
Get your **** together and focus your effort instead of all this haphazard "a little here, a little there" ********.
Don't start on something and move to something else.
You said earlier today that you were going to get stuff out of the kitchen.
How does it look now?
rwhite692
Well-known member
Bill, I think that (unless you want to walk away from your home) you and your wife really should consider filing for bankruptcy protection under ch.13 in order to protect your home. This will reduce greatly the amount that you are paying to creditors (if you go ch.13) and you will be able to put that money toward home repairs.
It makes no sense for you to try to keep satisfying your creditors if you are in danger of becoming homeless. There are legal firms out there who can help you file at low cost.
It makes no sense for you to try to keep satisfying your creditors if you are in danger of becoming homeless. There are legal firms out there who can help you file at low cost.
rickairmedic
Well-known member
Ok Bill I am gonna tell you a little story that I have never fully told here .
We had a house fire in Feb of 2009 . The fire was in the basement and pretty well destroyed everything down there ( 3 bedrooms , 2 storage rooms , a brand new front loader washer and dryer set ) . This was just the basement . The fire also required me to have to gut the main bathroom , kitchen and dining room all the way to the floor joists . I with the help of 2 freinds ( when they could get time ) gutted the basement and filled 2 40 yard dumpsters . This wasnt easy I set up an electric winch on a wall at the top of the stairs in the garage and would roll a 90 gallon toter ( what you call a dumpster ) down the stairs and fill it . Then I hooked the winch to it and hauled it out of the basement . Then I took it to the 40 yard dumpster and emptied it . Then I did it all over again trip after trip after trip until the basement was empty and I mean empty furnace,water heater , ductwork all of it went until I had a floor and 4 bare walls left . Then I took a pressure washer down there and pressure washed the entire basement .
Then SWMBO and I with our 16YO at the time son went into the bathroom upstairs and gutted it completely to the studs to include the floor and ceiling . The following weekend my 2 buddies showed up and we gutted the kitchen completely . Then we rippped out the floors in the kitchen and dining room . Then we started taking out the floor joists one at a time and replaced them as we took them out .
I then repiped the entire house all supply and waste lines replaced all the way to the vent stacks going through the roof all new . Then summer hit and I got busy with actual work . I ended up paying a buddy of mine to put down the new subfloors in the kitchen and dining room as I just plain didnt have time .
Swmbo and I started comming over every night and rebuilt the bathroom and rewired most of the house to include a new main electrical panel . Once we had the bathroom done and had cleaned and painted every room we didnt gut . We sanded and refinished all of the hardwood floors that were not being replaced . This braught us to just before Thanksgiving 2010.
We moved back into the house at this point as we had been renting a house from a freind of mine in a not so great neighborhood . My son and I layed all new hardwood in the kitchen and dining room ( after we were back in the house ) .
Mind you we still didnt have central heat or air at this time ( Ok I had the equipment in a storage container in the driveway but it wasnt installed yet ) . We heated the house with my big Dayton 220 volt electric garage heater and a couple of smaller space heaters last winter .
We have insulated every wall we removed drywall from due to the fire to include the attic above the bathroom, kitchen and dining room which we also pulled the ceilings down in .
We have managed at this point to get the ceilings back up in the kitchen and dining room and redrywall almost all of the walls in those 2 rooms ( one wall left in the kitchen to be finished .
We rented 2 hotel rooms a couple weekends ago and moved the whole family for the weekend and SWMBO and I finally got the dining room and kitchen floors done Poly and all.
This brings us to present where I have put the HVAC system back into the house ( all new ) and have almost finished up building all new ductwork . We still dont have a real kitchen yet . Theres a laundry sink hooked up in the kitchen and an oven and microwave and new refrigerator but no cabinets yet .
Meanwhile the money from insurance has been gone ( lesson learned made sure I have 100% replacement coverage now ) . This has also been one of the worst years I can remember in 20 years of doing HVAC ( the economy was in the toilet and somebody flushed ) .
I will have the HVAC finished up by the end of the weekend and we will get the kitchen finished over the winter . We have managed to do almost all of this with just SWMBO and I doing 95% of the work .
Rick
We had a house fire in Feb of 2009 . The fire was in the basement and pretty well destroyed everything down there ( 3 bedrooms , 2 storage rooms , a brand new front loader washer and dryer set ) . This was just the basement . The fire also required me to have to gut the main bathroom , kitchen and dining room all the way to the floor joists . I with the help of 2 freinds ( when they could get time ) gutted the basement and filled 2 40 yard dumpsters . This wasnt easy I set up an electric winch on a wall at the top of the stairs in the garage and would roll a 90 gallon toter ( what you call a dumpster ) down the stairs and fill it . Then I hooked the winch to it and hauled it out of the basement . Then I took it to the 40 yard dumpster and emptied it . Then I did it all over again trip after trip after trip until the basement was empty and I mean empty furnace,water heater , ductwork all of it went until I had a floor and 4 bare walls left . Then I took a pressure washer down there and pressure washed the entire basement .
Then SWMBO and I with our 16YO at the time son went into the bathroom upstairs and gutted it completely to the studs to include the floor and ceiling . The following weekend my 2 buddies showed up and we gutted the kitchen completely . Then we rippped out the floors in the kitchen and dining room . Then we started taking out the floor joists one at a time and replaced them as we took them out .
I then repiped the entire house all supply and waste lines replaced all the way to the vent stacks going through the roof all new . Then summer hit and I got busy with actual work . I ended up paying a buddy of mine to put down the new subfloors in the kitchen and dining room as I just plain didnt have time .
Swmbo and I started comming over every night and rebuilt the bathroom and rewired most of the house to include a new main electrical panel . Once we had the bathroom done and had cleaned and painted every room we didnt gut . We sanded and refinished all of the hardwood floors that were not being replaced . This braught us to just before Thanksgiving 2010.
We moved back into the house at this point as we had been renting a house from a freind of mine in a not so great neighborhood . My son and I layed all new hardwood in the kitchen and dining room ( after we were back in the house ) .
Mind you we still didnt have central heat or air at this time ( Ok I had the equipment in a storage container in the driveway but it wasnt installed yet ) . We heated the house with my big Dayton 220 volt electric garage heater and a couple of smaller space heaters last winter .
We have insulated every wall we removed drywall from due to the fire to include the attic above the bathroom, kitchen and dining room which we also pulled the ceilings down in .
We have managed at this point to get the ceilings back up in the kitchen and dining room and redrywall almost all of the walls in those 2 rooms ( one wall left in the kitchen to be finished .
We rented 2 hotel rooms a couple weekends ago and moved the whole family for the weekend and SWMBO and I finally got the dining room and kitchen floors done Poly and all.
This brings us to present where I have put the HVAC system back into the house ( all new ) and have almost finished up building all new ductwork . We still dont have a real kitchen yet . Theres a laundry sink hooked up in the kitchen and an oven and microwave and new refrigerator but no cabinets yet .
Meanwhile the money from insurance has been gone ( lesson learned made sure I have 100% replacement coverage now ) . This has also been one of the worst years I can remember in 20 years of doing HVAC ( the economy was in the toilet and somebody flushed ) .
I will have the HVAC finished up by the end of the weekend and we will get the kitchen finished over the winter . We have managed to do almost all of this with just SWMBO and I doing 95% of the work .
Rick
rickairmedic
Well-known member
Ok fresh post . Why did I tell you all of what I did in my last post Bill for one reason to show you it can be done . Was it easy HELL NO not in the least . There were days I couldnt bring myself to drag over here and deal with the mess that day . I managed though and got it done .
I will say this honestly I thgink the best thing that could happen right now for you would be to see how many Detroit ( or nearby ) members we could round up for one weekend .
This weekend you and Julie need to go camping somewhere and you will have to trust Brian or Tony to take care of your home for that weekend . I would bet that with enough help plus Tony;s dumptruck and a dumpster if possible . Your house could be emptied of garbage to include the basement .
I didnt say good stuff I said junk pure unadulterated junk . MAybe spend a day with Tony or Brian or both before this weekend and outline ( what you need to keep ) not what you want to keep but what you need to keep .
This is about the only way I see you getting that house in some kind of liveable shape before Christmas hits . I know it wont be easy to leave 2 strangers incharge of your house for a whole weekend but you will be able to come home to a new home and will be much more able to deal with the other issues in the house once the " **** " is out .
I have to ask what kind of condition is the airstream in . Does it have heat and a bathroom and kitchen area .
Rick
I will say this honestly I thgink the best thing that could happen right now for you would be to see how many Detroit ( or nearby ) members we could round up for one weekend .
This weekend you and Julie need to go camping somewhere and you will have to trust Brian or Tony to take care of your home for that weekend . I would bet that with enough help plus Tony;s dumptruck and a dumpster if possible . Your house could be emptied of garbage to include the basement .
I didnt say good stuff I said junk pure unadulterated junk . MAybe spend a day with Tony or Brian or both before this weekend and outline ( what you need to keep ) not what you want to keep but what you need to keep .
This is about the only way I see you getting that house in some kind of liveable shape before Christmas hits . I know it wont be easy to leave 2 strangers incharge of your house for a whole weekend but you will be able to come home to a new home and will be much more able to deal with the other issues in the house once the " **** " is out .
I have to ask what kind of condition is the airstream in . Does it have heat and a bathroom and kitchen area .
Rick
rickairmedic
Well-known member
Why do I ask about the airstream you ask . Simple really it may be a decent place that you and Julie could stay durring the rebuild process of your house without actually having to leave the house so to speak . The airstream will be alot less space to try and heat with small heaters and some insulation and water line heat tape could get you running water in there pretty easy.
YEs by all means put everything you can on CL ( ultralight really ? ) Whens the last time you flew it ? I would bet never CL the thing and get some money ahead . I know you have 2 southbend Lathes as well as the Bridgeport . Keep one of the Lathes and the Brtidgeport but put the other Southbend on CL and get some cash for it . You dont " need " 2 Southbend Lathes . I want a Southbend Lathe but I can live without it for now and shipping from Detroit would kill me buying one of yors . Go to the property and take pictures of all of the campers except for the best one . Put them all on CL for $200.00 OBO even if you only got $100.00 a pop for them thats still $1700.00 to go towards that $6000.00 TAX bill which only leaves you $4300.00 to come up with guess what one Southbend in decent shapoe should get you an easy $400.00 now your down to $3900.00 for the taxman . Whats that ultralight worth ? You see where I am going with this I hope .
Rick
YEs by all means put everything you can on CL ( ultralight really ? ) Whens the last time you flew it ? I would bet never CL the thing and get some money ahead . I know you have 2 southbend Lathes as well as the Bridgeport . Keep one of the Lathes and the Brtidgeport but put the other Southbend on CL and get some cash for it . You dont " need " 2 Southbend Lathes . I want a Southbend Lathe but I can live without it for now and shipping from Detroit would kill me buying one of yors . Go to the property and take pictures of all of the campers except for the best one . Put them all on CL for $200.00 OBO even if you only got $100.00 a pop for them thats still $1700.00 to go towards that $6000.00 TAX bill which only leaves you $4300.00 to come up with guess what one Southbend in decent shapoe should get you an easy $400.00 now your down to $3900.00 for the taxman . Whats that ultralight worth ? You see where I am going with this I hope .
Rick
BlueSuedeShoe
Member
What Bill has done up until now IS an accomplishment! It wouldn't be one for any of us, no. But for a man who's been hoarding that much stuff for all those years, he's doing a good job. At the moment he is not capable to do more.
And we all need to accept that. He's doing what he's capable of doing.
That doesn't mean that there is no room for improvement
It's not gonna work to just go to his house and throw things away for him. In a few months it would be just as cluttered (I know, it's more than cluttered...) as it is now. HE (and his wife) needs to be the driving force behind everything. HE needs to be in charge of the decisions what to do next or what to throw away. We are allowed to make suggestions!
I've been reading every day and I was and still am amazed about the fact that Bill never shut down on us. Not even after reading the harshests of comments. Today was the first time I felt he was overwhelmed by everything we try to do for him.
@ Bill
I can understand that you don't want to lose control over the process.
How about you accept the help (in terms of physical labor) offered to you for certain clearly defined parts of your project? Like the clearing out of the basement for example.
You have already decided that everything down there is basically garbage because of the dirt and the mold. If you accept the help offered you could have an empty basement in just a few days. Imagine what a big block lifted off of your shoulders.
Delegating work does not mean you're giving up your authority!
We can't control you. YOU can control yourself! YOU can make choices regarding your life.
I also feel that you are overwhelmed by our to-do-lists. That's not what any of us intended. I for my part just posted it because I think that you can't see the wood for the trees at times and I thought it might be good if you have something to remind you of what's important!
Last but not least I want to thank you! Because of your thread I realized that I used to have a problem and my husband still has one.
You made me see and accept that people cannot change overnight and that I need to be patient. Patience was never one of my strenghts, unfortunately.
And I realized that I too, need to let go. Let go of my expectations regarding my husband or anybody else.
He's not clearing out the basement because anybody (ok, I) wants him to, but because he experiences the positiv feelings it brings. It does not go as fast as I want it to go, but that's ok. I can't control him or anyone else. The only thing I can do is trust.
The funny thing is that for a long time I had more confidence in you than in my own husband. You had at least realized you have a problem!
My wish for you is that you can also let go. That you can feel secure that you will always have what you need. Look at all the help that's been offered to you here! You didn't expect that, did you? You don't expect things to fall just the way they should. But they will.
You just need to accept the fact that what you need might not always be what you want at first.
In your dreams you probably see some elves that come and clean your house, build a new storage shack or two and put everything you own nicely in it's place. Then those elves would pay off your debts and you could live happily ever after.
Well those GJ-elves don't work that way. They offer the help that you NEED, not the help you might want.
And we all need to accept that. He's doing what he's capable of doing.
That doesn't mean that there is no room for improvement
It's not gonna work to just go to his house and throw things away for him. In a few months it would be just as cluttered (I know, it's more than cluttered...) as it is now. HE (and his wife) needs to be the driving force behind everything. HE needs to be in charge of the decisions what to do next or what to throw away. We are allowed to make suggestions!
I've been reading every day and I was and still am amazed about the fact that Bill never shut down on us. Not even after reading the harshests of comments. Today was the first time I felt he was overwhelmed by everything we try to do for him.
@ Bill
I can understand that you don't want to lose control over the process.
How about you accept the help (in terms of physical labor) offered to you for certain clearly defined parts of your project? Like the clearing out of the basement for example.
You have already decided that everything down there is basically garbage because of the dirt and the mold. If you accept the help offered you could have an empty basement in just a few days. Imagine what a big block lifted off of your shoulders.
Delegating work does not mean you're giving up your authority!
We can't control you. YOU can control yourself! YOU can make choices regarding your life.
I also feel that you are overwhelmed by our to-do-lists. That's not what any of us intended. I for my part just posted it because I think that you can't see the wood for the trees at times and I thought it might be good if you have something to remind you of what's important!
Last but not least I want to thank you! Because of your thread I realized that I used to have a problem and my husband still has one.
You made me see and accept that people cannot change overnight and that I need to be patient. Patience was never one of my strenghts, unfortunately.
And I realized that I too, need to let go. Let go of my expectations regarding my husband or anybody else.
He's not clearing out the basement because anybody (ok, I) wants him to, but because he experiences the positiv feelings it brings. It does not go as fast as I want it to go, but that's ok. I can't control him or anyone else. The only thing I can do is trust.
The funny thing is that for a long time I had more confidence in you than in my own husband. You had at least realized you have a problem!
My wish for you is that you can also let go. That you can feel secure that you will always have what you need. Look at all the help that's been offered to you here! You didn't expect that, did you? You don't expect things to fall just the way they should. But they will.
You just need to accept the fact that what you need might not always be what you want at first.
In your dreams you probably see some elves that come and clean your house, build a new storage shack or two and put everything you own nicely in it's place. Then those elves would pay off your debts and you could live happily ever after.
Well those GJ-elves don't work that way. They offer the help that you NEED, not the help you might want.
70Chevy
Well-known member
I am interested in what direction you think we shuold go next Tony.
The pics posted so far do not show the whole story.
I haven't read every post lately, but I've caught up with the gist of it. So forgive me if this was brought up in the parts I skimmed.
Maybe it's time to call up whichever network hosts "Hoarders". Bill would be a great case study for them and they might bring some financial/legal/psychological help that he cannot otherwise obtain.
Maybe it's time to call up whichever network hosts "Hoarders". Bill would be a great case study for them and they might bring some financial/legal/psychological help that he cannot otherwise obtain.
We will see what he decides this weekend. Thats all the time I'm giving him. He knows it. I'm not playing around here.
That being said...I'm gonna be with my family tonight....Eff the write up cause I want to wait till Bill make a descision before I call him out on some stuff...
Brian, sorry I didn't call you, but after the visit I can understand the effects on you from your visit. Although, I saw EVERYTHING...goddamn....whatever, I 'm getting worked up again...
I'm actually gonna have my wife read through the entire thread with me to understand what is my driving force for wanting to get involved in this....Cause people, this goes FAR beyond just lending a hand whether it be a day, weekend, or whatever...
I find myself so distraught over this, that I am questioning my motivation and better judgement.
-T
That being said...I'm gonna be with my family tonight....Eff the write up cause I want to wait till Bill make a descision before I call him out on some stuff...
Brian, sorry I didn't call you, but after the visit I can understand the effects on you from your visit. Although, I saw EVERYTHING...goddamn....whatever, I 'm getting worked up again...
I'm actually gonna have my wife read through the entire thread with me to understand what is my driving force for wanting to get involved in this....Cause people, this goes FAR beyond just lending a hand whether it be a day, weekend, or whatever...
I find myself so distraught over this, that I am questioning my motivation and better judgement.
-T
NO! It is not my place to turn Bill into a ******* lab rat. Trust in what I say when I tell you (based on what I have been told) that isnt necessary.
-T
trbomax
Well-known member
Ive been reading this since it started and promised myself that I wouldnt say what I think,but I cant do that anymore. Looking at the kitchen pic in #780 I cannot see even 1 thing that is worth anything. It is ALL trash, includeing appliances and cabinets. I have not seen ANYTHING in any of your picks taken inside the house or garage that is even worth putting on CL. I havent seen the SB's, but the BP is scrap from what I have seen. Is it single phase? If so,the motor is worth$100,if not its scrap too. A rusty ,dismanteled, 3 ph BP is worth 10cents a pound on a good day,when you can buy operating , decent, single phase ones for $1000 or less. I'll bet $100 that you bought the ultra light,never flew it,dont even know how to fly it, and it doesnt run anyway. Scrap the campers. Do the appliances even work in them? Is the canvas good in any of them? The advise to put them all on CL,all at one time,for 200 obo was good. Let people come and take there pick for 200 obo. You KNOW you are upside down in CC $ but do you still use them? Cut them up and throw them away,then find a good debt consolidater. Do it MONDAY morning.Dont move any of that **** except to a dumpster. Moveing it around means nothing. Are the dogs licensed and are the shots current? Are thier nails trimmed? Do they have fresh water and shelter 24/7 ? If not and they live outside even 3 hrs a day thats animal cruelity (imo). You are a sick man and I do not mean to be degradeing or insulting by saying that,but you need professional help.The more I type the angryier I get. I am a brutaly frank person as anyone who has ever known me would tell you. I would not sugar coat anything for anyone. I live (by choice) in one of the poorest countys in the state.We have trash house trailers everywhere in antrim and kalkaska county and people live in them,or should I properly say "survive", but I can honestly say that I have never seen one that is as bad as your house,or without water and heat, and I get around the county a LOT in my line of work. You say you have a "place up north". Just go there for the next 3 weekends and give these guys on here your keys.You will never do this by yourself,and it will never get done if you are there for the process.Write it all off and dont look back.
I'm not trying to piss anyone off by posting this, and I dont even care what Bill thinks about it because I know its true and Ive never even seen it in person.I dont know, I have to stop now because of what I am thinking...
I'm not trying to piss anyone off by posting this, and I dont even care what Bill thinks about it because I know its true and Ive never even seen it in person.I dont know, I have to stop now because of what I am thinking...
Jeez, I came to this website to find ideas for my garage and at the same time got a good lesson on life. And I am going to be 50 in December, lol. I thought the folks on my MG Forum were caring but this forum takes the cake. On the one hand depressing to witness mental illness yet on the other hand refreshing to see how many of us care for our fellow man.
Think I will go spend some time with my wife and kid now....
Think I will go spend some time with my wife and kid now....
Grandad
Active member
I think you're onto something with this thinking.
Holds possibilities for a short term solution.
Jim
Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
Said Lucy to Linus - "That rag you are never without, is the most disgusting, wretched, foul, miserable, ridiculous excuse of a blanket I have ever seen!"
Said Linus to Lucy - "Yes, all that you say may be true, but it is mine, it defines me, it gives me succor, I am nothing without it and I cannot imagine myself living a day without its comfort!"
Said Lucy to Linus - "AAARRRGGGHHH, you drive me crazy! GET RID OF IT!!!"
Said Linus to Lucy - "I will consider getting rid of it; someday; maybe; I think."
Said Lucy - "AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!"
HOLEDGR - Now that you have met with Bill, does my post above ring true with you; do you feel like Lucy? After reading the entire thread and submitting my own heartfelt advice (numerous times!), it seems to me that the root of the problem is not the 'blanket', but the 'holder' of the blanket. The help in cleaning/repairing/organizing is needed urgently, but more urgent is the need for professional counseling for both Bill and his wife. That can't happen here; in fact, our kind words and encouragement offered in this forum may indeed just provide a skewed re-enforcement for this hoarding behavior. Munchausen Syndrome By Proxy comes to mind as a parallel. I have nothing more to say except that I hope Bill and his wife get the kind of help that will really help them live healthier lives.
GirlnAgarage
Well-known member
Bill, I've taken the last several hours to read through this thread. I've gone through the whole round-about of emotions as the thread progressed. Right now Bill I'm pretty pissed. Probably the only thing I should say at this point is the only valuable things you're wasting by the way you're living is yours and Julie's life.
All this talk about "one day" when you look at any of this stuff. You need to wake up. Before you know it your days will all be gone.
And you better not go to any garage sales this weekend unless you're selling stuff.
All this talk about "one day" when you look at any of this stuff. You need to wake up. Before you know it your days will all be gone.
And you better not go to any garage sales this weekend unless you're selling stuff.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
Some of the above threads is what I have been saying all along. It's going to take some professionals to get to the root cause of why it is happening and work on that and to also have a professional organizer to make the proper recommendations in the appropriate manner. I know my emotions on this have ran the scale. One time you feel sorry for Bill and the next you are pissed. But everyone has to realize that what Bill has done, he is not to totally blame.
Bill.....I asked before and never got a response back, but if the members work together to try and find some professional help, would you accept it? If you wouldn't and think that you can still do all of this on your own, then everyone is just wasting their time. You have a lot of members backing you as far as what you are doing, but a lot of those responses have been sugar coated because you are a friend. And as I said before, if it were possible, almost all of the members would be there to help, but it is just not possible. So everyone is giving suggestions. I'm no professional organizer by a longshot, but I know how to keep things neat and organized. When I made some suggestions to you on what to do and how to do it, you rejected those ideas because you wanted to be in control and do it your own way. The thing is, your way has not, does not, and will not work. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be in control IF you knew what you were doing, but you don't.
Bill.....you and Julie are risking your health. That is the first and most major thing to think about. It's not just about dental health, but you are risking your health with lung problems, risking your health with the chance of fire and possible falling.
From EHOW.com"
What Are the Dangers of Cleaning Up Rat Feces?
By Paul Miceli, eHow Contributor updated April 16, 2011
Rat droppings can carry many harmful viruses.
Homeowners with a rodent infestation should exercise extreme caution before handling rat droppings. Rat feces carry a number of potentially fatal diseases that spread to humans, usually by hand-to-mouth contact. To eliminate the risk of contracting viruses, rodent infestations and feces removal should be carried out by trained pest control companies. Rat droppings are blunt or pointed spindles of between 0.6 inches and 0.8 inches in length and are dark in color.
Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome
Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, discovered in 1993, is a rare disease found in the United States. The potentially deadly virus transfers through rat urine and droppings. Aching, tiredness and a fever are early signs of an infection and the large muscle groups are most commonly affected. As the disease develops, headaches, nausea and vomiting are prevalent. The late symptoms of hantavirus pulmonary syndrome are coughing and a shortness of breath that resembles being smothered by a pillow. Symptoms appear after one to five weeks of contact with rat feces and infections are often fatal.
Leptospirosis transfers to humans when rat feces are cleared from wet or damp areas during an infestation. The rodent often urinates at the same time as it produces droppings, which results in cross-contamination of water and a greater risk of contracting multiple diseases. Symptoms include jaundice, rashes, abdominal pain and red eyes. Leptospirosis requires antibiotic treatments and the disease is often contracted by sewage workers, water sports enthusiasts and children.
From the American Lung Association:
Symptoms, Diagnosis, and Treatment
What are the Symptoms of Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome?
It appears that symptoms may develop between 1 and 5 weeks after exposure to infected rodents or their urine. The illness may seem similar to a severe cold or influenza.
Early symptoms include fatigue and fever and muscle aches, especially in the large muscle groups-thighs, hips, back, and sometimes shoulders. About half of people with HPS have headaches, dizziness, chills, and stomach problems, such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and stomach pain.
Four to 10 days after the start of HPS, late symptoms appear. These include coughing and shortness of breath. HPS quickly progresses to severe breathing problems and to adult respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), which is fatal in 30 to 40 percent of cases.
How is Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome Detected?
Hantavirus, which causes HPS, can be detected by examining blood and tissue samples.
How is Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome Treated?
There is no specific treatment for HPS, and there is no cure. But early diagnosis and treatment in an intensive care unit may improve a person's chances of recovery.
A person with HPS is given oxygen therapy to help them breathe. The earlier treatment is started, the more successful it is likely to be. If a person is brought into the hospital while in severe respiratory distress, it is less likely the treatment will work.
If you have been around rodents and have fever, deep muscle aches, and severe shortness of breath, tell your doctor right away so you can be tested for rodent-carried disease such as HPS.
Bill.....I asked before and never got a response back, but if the members work together to try and find some professional help, would you accept it? If you wouldn't and think that you can still do all of this on your own, then everyone is just wasting their time. You have a lot of members backing you as far as what you are doing, but a lot of those responses have been sugar coated because you are a friend. And as I said before, if it were possible, almost all of the members would be there to help, but it is just not possible. So everyone is giving suggestions. I'm no professional organizer by a longshot, but I know how to keep things neat and organized. When I made some suggestions to you on what to do and how to do it, you rejected those ideas because you wanted to be in control and do it your own way. The thing is, your way has not, does not, and will not work. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be in control IF you knew what you were doing, but you don't.
Bill.....you and Julie are risking your health. That is the first and most major thing to think about. It's not just about dental health, but you are risking your health with lung problems, risking your health with the chance of fire and possible falling.
From EHOW.com"
What Are the Dangers of Cleaning Up Rat Feces?
By Paul Miceli, eHow Contributor updated April 16, 2011
Rat droppings can carry many harmful viruses.
Homeowners with a rodent infestation should exercise extreme caution before handling rat droppings. Rat feces carry a number of potentially fatal diseases that spread to humans, usually by hand-to-mouth contact. To eliminate the risk of contracting viruses, rodent infestations and feces removal should be carried out by trained pest control companies. Rat droppings are blunt or pointed spindles of between 0.6 inches and 0.8 inches in length and are dark in color.
Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome
Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, discovered in 1993, is a rare disease found in the United States. The potentially deadly virus transfers through rat urine and droppings. Aching, tiredness and a fever are early signs of an infection and the large muscle groups are most commonly affected. As the disease develops, headaches, nausea and vomiting are prevalent. The late symptoms of hantavirus pulmonary syndrome are coughing and a shortness of breath that resembles being smothered by a pillow. Symptoms appear after one to five weeks of contact with rat feces and infections are often fatal.
Leptospirosis transfers to humans when rat feces are cleared from wet or damp areas during an infestation. The rodent often urinates at the same time as it produces droppings, which results in cross-contamination of water and a greater risk of contracting multiple diseases. Symptoms include jaundice, rashes, abdominal pain and red eyes. Leptospirosis requires antibiotic treatments and the disease is often contracted by sewage workers, water sports enthusiasts and children.
From the American Lung Association:
Symptoms, Diagnosis, and Treatment
What are the Symptoms of Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome?
It appears that symptoms may develop between 1 and 5 weeks after exposure to infected rodents or their urine. The illness may seem similar to a severe cold or influenza.
Early symptoms include fatigue and fever and muscle aches, especially in the large muscle groups-thighs, hips, back, and sometimes shoulders. About half of people with HPS have headaches, dizziness, chills, and stomach problems, such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and stomach pain.
Four to 10 days after the start of HPS, late symptoms appear. These include coughing and shortness of breath. HPS quickly progresses to severe breathing problems and to adult respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), which is fatal in 30 to 40 percent of cases.
How is Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome Detected?
Hantavirus, which causes HPS, can be detected by examining blood and tissue samples.
How is Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome Treated?
There is no specific treatment for HPS, and there is no cure. But early diagnosis and treatment in an intensive care unit may improve a person's chances of recovery.
A person with HPS is given oxygen therapy to help them breathe. The earlier treatment is started, the more successful it is likely to be. If a person is brought into the hospital while in severe respiratory distress, it is less likely the treatment will work.
If you have been around rodents and have fever, deep muscle aches, and severe shortness of breath, tell your doctor right away so you can be tested for rodent-carried disease such as HPS.
70Chevy
Well-known member
If Bill's place caught on fire it'd be over in just a few minutes. Also, if they needed EMS to come into the house with any equipment, it would be almost impossible.
I think Kevin understands the conditions and the dangers in this home.
I think Kevin understands the conditions and the dangers in this home.
couchmechanic
Well-known member
Sorry Bill, Grab what you can and your wife, throw a match on it and run. At least you can start over! Couchmechanic
Ole_Red
Well-known member
the more i think about it, the more this sounds like a good idea.
Nighttrain
Well-known member
Hoping he is filling a big dumpster!
trbomax
Well-known member
I doubt it,more likely moveing **** from the kitchen onto the basement stairs,or restacking paint cans 3 high instead of 2 high so they take less floor space.
kirk.g
Well-known member
I think there are a lot of issues and crosscurrents going on here.(I dont think its a character issue)I also dont think you,re as much of a hard nosed guy as you make out.A lot of guys wouldnt be as concerned about a cat as you..............How is you,re cat? btw.
trbomax
Well-known member
Actually that last post was more sarcasm than attitude,but I'll almost bet it was spot on! My cats are fine,attak is chewing on my foot as I type! The whole truth is though, that I dont have a lot of sympathy or patience with people who got themselves into situations and then dont try very hard to get themselves out. I dont really believe that he wants it cleaned out because if that happens he loses a huge part of his identity. It still comes back to needing professional help with the personal issues,he must realize and address that first.
edit) I admit to being a marshmallo for animals,but people,not so much. I was taught to be as self sufficient as possible , and I passed that attitude on to our kids.Youve got to help yourself before expecting others to help you.
edit) I admit to being a marshmallo for animals,but people,not so much. I was taught to be as self sufficient as possible , and I passed that attitude on to our kids.Youve got to help yourself before expecting others to help you.
Last edited:
Need4racin
Banned
Bill you're a good guy, you just have too much **** that needs thrown away/scrapped/ or sold.
And most of it is **** that needs thrown away or sold for scrap weight. It's not gold bud.
Do what you have to do, I'm going to let this one go.
And most of it is **** that needs thrown away or sold for scrap weight. It's not gold bud.
Do what you have to do, I'm going to let this one go.
Last edited:
- Status