Grunge Garage

[Lump]

Bill, I have posted a couple of "atta-boy" messages in this thread, but nothing more than that until now. I am thoroughly impressed with your progress, and decided to finally add a couple thoughts, which you may hopefully find helpful in some way.

First, I am not quite a "hoarder" myself, but I'm really not so far removed from that status. I LOVE to search for/find cool old useful and/or collectible items at bargain prices, and I HATE to waste anything which is potentially useful. So I must constantly work at getting rid of things, or I am quickly overrun with junk. Fortunately for me, I also love to sell stuff, and go to 3 or 4 flea mkts or swap meets a year, plus list stuff on eBay and Craigslist. This removes a lot of stuff, and keeps a respectable bit of cash handy for future treasure-hunting.

But as you said, finding and buying bargains is WAY more fun than working to organize/store/re-organize/dispose of things. It's much too easy to find something like, for example, a beautiful-but-broken old rocking chair and say, "Heck, all it needs is a new runner on one side, stripping, gluing, and refinishing...and it will be a beautiful piece. And, it's worth way more than the $20 price...maybe the seller will come down?" Of course, the seller usually does. Then it is great fun to load up my bargain treasure, take it home, and proudly show it to my wife. However, then the hard part comes. I must now store it someplace, and I'm often tired after a long day shopping...so it gets plopped down in the most convenient place available (often the only open spot in my garage.) My plan is always to organize my storage space "tomorrow," and put it neatly away until I can tackle the restoration project soon, "...maybe this weekend." But by the time the weekend rolls around, I have found out about another, even-more-FABULOUS estate sale/auction/swap meet/flea mkt, etc, etc. And the cycle continues.

By the way, that phrase, "...all it needs is..." has been the ruin of many a collector!

In the past, I would resolve these issues temporarily whenever I would get frustrated and overwhelmed with junk, by suddenly getting fed up and hauling off a bunch of junk to the dumpster. But then I would feel conflicted... I would be proud of my beautifully clean and organized shop, but guilty because I had wasted so many potentially useful things. But in more recent years I have learned to pick out the few really-cool items that I like, and make a firm decision to keep them. Then, I really look forward to disposing of everything else, by selling items, giving away things, and finally discarding of other items that weren't really as good as I had hoped. It would kill me to "waste" a perfectly good piece of lumber, for example. But if my neighbor might be building a new addition next door, I would carry over a bunch of lumber and give it to him, hoping he could use some of it, and discard the rest later. I give extra tools to my sons and brother and close friends, and sell many others at events, or on eBay.

I have found, for me at least, that if I can pass on a useful item to someone that will use it...either by sale or gift...I don't feel bad to have gotten rid of it. Indeed, I haven't "wasted" it at all. I have merely made it ultimately useful.

Gotta get back to work. More later. Merry Christmas!

 

[Lump]

Bill, now to continue...

When I am listening to the side of my personality which comes close to an "almost-hoarder", I sometimes feel a duty or responsibility for an object...feeling duty-bound to use or at least preserve that item's inherent value. For example, if I were to buy some tools or etc in a pile at an auction and find within that pile a small piece of walnut, cherry, or other premium lumber, I SURE don't want to "waste" it and throw it away. I feel duty-bound to preserve it until it can be used in some project...even though I don't often do any woodworking! Yet it may only be a one-by-four board 24" long...and I may have LOTS of pieces like that. Conversely, when I am honest with myself, I think about how long it has been since I have actually used a piece of cherry or walnut (or, since I have used spools of copper-winding wire to rewind an armature, or used solid copper rivets, or that 10-year-old can of spray paint, or...well, you get the idea). Then I realize that I NEVER will actually use it. Yet I cannot bear to throw it away, because it still has usefulness and/or value. In the case of my hardwood-scraps example, I can get relief from the problem by finding a friend who does lots of little woodworking projects, and give these pieces to him. Then, if HE cannot find a use for it, then it really did have no value to me anyway. Now I can feel good when he throws it away (especially if I don't know about it.) On the other hand, if he is happy to receive these useful hardwood pieces, I feel great that they will almost surely get used by someone who will appreciate them. And, maybe someday he will help me with a furniture repair in return, or whatever.

The OPPOSITE strategy for "preserving the innate value" of an item is to keep it myself, in spite of the reality that I will never use it. But when I look at that situation clearly, I come to realize that I cannot save or preserve everything, and in fact, THE MORE ITEMS I TRY TO SAVE, THE LESS LIKELY I AM TO ACTUALLY PRESERVE ANY OF THEM. As you found with items stored in your basement, sheds, and outdoor areas, too many items ALWAYS become overwhelming clutter. And when you need an item which you know very well that have "somewhere," you cannot find it anyway. Then I end up buying it all over again. Moreover, I can only take proper care of a finite amount of items. I can only get a certain number of "projects" done in my useful lifetime ahead of me. So the excess amounts of objects MUST inevitably pile up on each other, and eventually rot, rust, decay, corrode, or otherwise become useless. In the end, I caused the wasteful destruction of the very things I wanted to preserve.

I have learned to take great pleasure in selling items (hopefully for more than I paid for them.) And I also really enjoy giving things to people who will appreciate them. When I set up at a swap meet or flea mkt, I carefully watch items which have not sold in two or three outings, and cut those prices drastically. I always have a "dollar table," fitted with a sign saying all items are one dollar. After a 3-day event, items which remain on this table are clearly not even worth one buck. So I set my resolve, load them into a box or boxes, and carry them to a neighboring vendor and give them away. (I have had them come running and start fighting over this stuff!) Toys which have not sold are handed out to little children who are walking past, and books given out freely at the end of the event. I know I will buy more stuff at future sales, and I have normally already sold enough at profit levels to pay for an entire "haul" anyway, so every time I am out my goal is to be rid of the least valuable stuff.

This is not to suggest that you become a vendor. But I am merely expressing my own experiences with trying to keep and preserve too many items, and what I have learned to do to get rid of them without feeling unhappy about it. Handing a useful item to someone for free, and watching their face brighten with a smile of gratitude makes me feel great. And I no longer feel any guilt about getting rid of an item. For ME, the same is true when I sell something.

Again, this is just my way of dealing with my own collecting issues. Best wishes to you and Julie.

 

[bczygan]

Lump,
Thank you for your posts. Those are exactly some of the thought processes that go through my head. Along with the "I'll never be able to afford to replace this item".

Today I broke up and threw away a classic table. It was a manufactured Mahogany finish small square tavle with a single drawer and harp base. It had prass feet but one broke off and then the whole leg split. Don't know where the foot is and the top was covered with mouse pee and poop. Don't know what we paid for it. Too much trouble to fix or find someone who would want to fix it. Possessions are a drug on the market here in MI because people are leaving the state and things have little value. Threw away the split leg a couple days ago so I would be compelled to toss the whole thing. Still feel a sense of loss, but there was no reasonable place to put it in the house. That is the determining factor. As nice as it could be, I didn't have a specific place and use for it. One excuse Julie always used was "We are buying it for our future house in the country". That doesn't cut it. My excuse that I will store it and build a place for it later, also doesn't pass muster. 1 usable item trumps 2 or 3 things that need fixing. No reason for multiples when one is needed and has it's own place in the house. All you guys are saying.......DUH!!! You've known this from birth! Me, I'm just trying these ideas on for size for the first time. It feels a little scary because there is no security like you have with 2 or 3 levels or tape measures or can openers or mixers or food processors or........But if you can't find or get to any of them, then you have no security anyway!

 

[Bronson]

Bill, I was in My shed today, and I literally tripped over an old rotting water hose that I have been "saving" for years. I have been telling Myself, I will split it and use it for edging on the metal flower bed tin, or, I will cut it in sections and use it for.....You know what I am talking about. I actually had to force Myself to throw away a 30 foot section of ROTTEN WATER HOSE. Since I have been following this thread, I have sold 6 project motorcycles , old warped, rotten lumber, scrap copper, broken tools, hundreds of plastic coffee cans, and who know what else. Re-arranged, organized and cleaned two roll-aways and top boxes, and organized and sorted My shop, and My house. I am about 1/2 done. I check in here every day for inspiration! Keep inspiring Me!

 

[Phxphenom]

I have thrown away a lot of stuff too that I just have no use for.....House does the Master bedroom look now compared to yesterday? Better or worse? Before I start bugging you for pics, what's next in line? Stairway or kitchen?

Keep on keeping on!

 

[bczygan]

Better! Cleaned up much of the pile in the corner....
Plus, went outside and picked up three big piles of wet leaves from the gutter in front of my two neighbors houses. In one, the guy just lets them clog his neighbors gutter drain. The other one is the neighbor directly across from my side bedroom window. She had a kidney transplant and can't do a lot. I also raked the leaves up from her sidewalk, berm and curb and gutter. Filled two big trash cans with very heavy wet leaves. At least that part of her grass will survive til spring. And I get to look at it neat all winter. Raked a few leaves in my front yard too. Talked to a plumber who passed by about the water. Got his card.
Next on the agenda is a little finish work in the bedroom closet and then the stairs.
Then the Kitchen! I know I'm behind schedule, but Wed was a bust because the fuel lines on the Astro Van are leaking and I took it by a place to see if they could help get the hood unstuck (After the dentist appt. with Julie). They couldn't...
I need to get going on this house. Impatient.

 

[Phxphenom]

Surely you can get the stair done tomorrow as you had them clean just a few weeks ago.....

Go Bill Go!

 

[cactiki]

Yes! Go Bill go!
I bet you never thought this thread would get this much attention!
Lump, you just put into words a lot of thoughts that have been wrestling around in my head, but could never get together into logical sentences. I am also struggling with hoarding tendencies, and I am slowly winning. In my case a lot of it comes from the idea that every item has multiple possible uses, and as you said, "all it needs is....". When I go to the garage, I am determined to once and for all get it cleaned up so I can find what I need and get some work done. But when I begin to pick up items and decide what to do with them, I am filled with a million different thoughts about it-will I need it? If I get rid of it, will I need it later? What did it cost me? What is it worth? Does anyone else want it? What can I use it for? Then I get frustrated, confused, and anxious. Sometimes I literally throw up my hands, growl or scream, and come back in the house and get on the computer. I think one problem is thinking I have to predict the future and know what will happen tomorrow, or ten years from now.
But sometimes I look at this thread and I get up and go back out and get something done.
A lot of the advice given in this thread has struck a chord with me, and it looks like many others too.
One thing that I have found that helps me a lot is thinking of it this way: I try to put myself in the state of mind as if I had just inherited this house,garage, and property. As if I just walked in and found myself here with all this stuff. What would I do? What would I keep? What can I sell? Throw away? It really helps to detach myself from the "stuff" . To not think about the hours of labor I put into that baja bug, or not feel like a failure because I never finished it, or think " if I just get it running, I can sell it for more". No, I just think " Do I want it now, or is it just another weight around my neck?" (Yet,it is still sitting there........)
So, Bill, I understand how hard this is and I am amazed at your progress. I am also impressed by your demeanor, how you never get mad or defensive when people make comments which, to me at least, show that they have never been there and just don't understand how hard this is.

Cactiki, Who used to have 15 cars and now only has 10.........

 

[trbomax]

I will admit to takeing the backhoe ut and digging a hole 14' square and 8' deep. I began filling it with stuff I had sitting and waiting to either go to the dump or be magicaly restored.There are couches,chairs,exhaust blowers, lights....Its damn near full! I throw **** out the shop door when its in the way and when there is a bucket full,off it goes no matter what. I never actually knew I had that much **** acumulated!

 

[bczygan]

Yes! Go Bill go!
I bet you never thought this thread would get this much attention!
Lump, you just put into words a lot of thoughts that have been wrestling around in my head, but could never get together into logical sentences. I am also struggling with hoarding tendencies, and I am slowly winning. In my case a lot of it comes from the idea that every item has multiple possible uses, and as you said, "all it needs is....". When I go to the garage, I am determined to once and for all get it cleaned up so I can find what I need and get some work done. But when I begin to pick up items and decide what to do with them, I am filled with a million different thoughts about it-will I need it? If I get rid of it, will I need it later? What did it cost me? What is it worth? Does anyone else want it? What can I use it for? Then I get frustrated, confused, and anxious. Sometimes I literally throw up my hands, growl or scream, and come back in the house and get on the computer. I think one problem is thinking I have to predict the future and know what will happen tomorrow, or ten years from now.
But sometimes I look at this thread and I get up and go back out and get something done.
A lot of the advice given in this thread has struck a chord with me, and it looks like many others too.
One thing that I have found that helps me a lot is thinking of it this way: I try to put myself in the state of mind as if I had just inherited this house,garage, and property. As if I just walked in and found myself here with all this stuff. What would I do? What would I keep? What can I sell? Throw away? It really helps to detach myself from the "stuff" . To not think about the hours of labor I put into that baja bug, or not feel like a failure because I never finished it, or think " if I just get it running, I can sell it for more". No, I just think " Do I want it now, or is it just another weight around my neck?" (Yet,it is still sitting there........)
So, Bill, I understand how hard this is and I am amazed at your progress. I am also impressed by your demeanor, how you never get mad or defensive when people make comments which, to me at least, show that they have never been there and just don't understand how hard this is.

Cactiki, Who used to have 15 cars and now only has 10.........

Cactiki,
I think you have hit on something important here. It is the train of thought that we seem to go through. Once we start using that train that says something might have a use, we always use that response. It becomes a pleasurable experience. I had an Architect friend and boss who was managing partner in a firm who would stop along the road in his Buick Riviera to pick up bits of metal. I would also do that for wood pieces. It's the rush of endorphins you get when you get a good buy on something or get something free. And then you reinforce that feeling by reminding yourself everyday that you have everything you need or will ever need.
The trouble with that line of thought is that you then become responsible for all that stuff. For housing it and organizing it and using it. Eventually it becomes too much. It is more than a full time job. Eventually you start just piling things on top of each other. You still need the boost from finding new stuff, but you give up on the organizing and using. And things just keep closing in on you. You don't know what you are even doing. You can't see it. You have no idea you are even hoarding. You just think you are a little behind in organizing.
I am lucky that through this group I was able to come to terms with things and out myself, and with your support, begin dealing with it.
The thing I am trying to do, like you are, is to use different lines of thought. One method of retraining yourself is to do things differently until the new habits become ingrained. Some people use the phrase "Fake it until you make it". This applies to your inner voice as well. I am starting to look at things differently. I am starting to value my time more. So when I look at an item I still think about what I can do with it, but I think also about specifically when I will use it, and how much time that will take to fix it and install it and use it and clean around it etc. Before, those things were missing from my train of thought. Everything ended with the purchase or acquisition of the object. The future of it was lost in a haze of possible uses, but nothing specific.
Now I am quizzing each item and asking it where it will be placed and how often will I use it and if its use of my time and effort is worth it. I am becoming responsible for each item and taking true ownership of it, not just throwing it on the pile. Responsibility has never been my strong suit, so this is new and scary, but also refreshingly satisfying. I CHOOSE the place each thing will go. Everything will go under scrutiny. Even categories if items like books, which were sacrosanct in my mind, will be gone through. I used to think of books like money in the bank. You can never have too many. But when you have moved around dozens of heavy boxes of them to get to other things, and you start to realize you have never opened them and probably never will, then it changes how you think about them.
I'm starting to thing that the acquiring of things is a way to avoid life. If you are always just piling up stuff then you never have to actually use anything or accomplish anything with it. Real projects are always "After I get things cleaned up and organized or after I get all the tools and supplies I need".
Somewhere here I will need to start thinking about what I really want to do with my life. When I have a normal house and yard and garage, what then???
There will be freedom. Freedom to do anything. Freedom to start a project without worrying about all the things that need to be done. Much better than the false freedom from ignoring things and casting a blind eye over it all.

 

[markviii]

Now I am quizzing each item and asking it where it will be placed and how often will I use it and if its use of my time and effort is worth it. I CHOOSE the place each thing will go.

This is a great change! I know in the past you let all those things "talk" you into saving them. As in life, you can't save everybody (well, everything). It's a freeing feeling to not have things controlling your life. Afterall, whose the adult here? You're finally getting on the right path.

Chris

 

[Lump]

One of my challenges is that I lost multiple generations of my family in a tragic car accident, and have trouble getting rid of things that belonged to my dad, or one of my grandfathers, or one of my great-grandfathers. That can be tough!

 

[bczygan]

One of my challenges is that I lost multiple generations of my family in a tragic car accident, and have trouble getting rid of things that belonged to my dad, or one of my grandfathers, or one of my great-grandfathers. That can be tough!

Lump,
I understand. On the other hand. ALL the things we have are just rented for a while. Then when WE pass, they go to others. Perhaps we can honor the tool and the person who owned it by finding a new home for it with someone who will also honor and respect it's history, function, beauty and the people who owned it before. That might help you let go of some. Do you have any younger family members (Nephews, nieces, in-laws, friends, co-workers, church members etc. that would fit the bill? Photograph the items you pass on to others and document them in a family history so they and the people who owned them will live on. For most of us, we only live on by the memories of others and the written histories, photos, audio, and video we leave behind.
I am the son and grandson of alcoholics who dissipated all that the family had. I would love to have the tools or even the knowledge they could have passed down to me. My dad died in his 50's of Cirrhosis.
Because we moved so much as he changed jobs, we lost all our stuff. A good part of the reason I try to keep so much. But that's not an excuse anymore. Time to free myself of the history I can't change. No reason to continue to limit myself because of my fathers limitations.

I am cleaning the bedroom windows so we can see outside with clarity, as well as in our minds. No more being closed off from the world.

 

[Lump]

Cactiki and Bill, I used to have a terrible time whenever I would try to clean out my garage. It is a mentally painful process for me. For example, I'll pick up a box of, say, electrical items and say to myself, "Hmmm...this ought to be stored with other electrical items. I'll put all my electrical items in this gray metal cabinet." But then I open the doors to the gray cabinet, and find no room because all the shelves are crammed full of junk. So I'll set aside the box of electrical stuff, and pick up something off the shelves to start making room there and say, "Ok, this is a container of copper plumbing fittings. I should put all my plumbing stuff in the red cabinet over there." But when I get to the red cabinet, I find it full of stuff too. So I set aside the box of plumbing stuff, pick up something off the shelf in the red cabinet to make some room there...and the process goes on and on, etc, etc. Pretty soon I'm walking around and around the shop in a circle, miserable because I am sacrificing a free day to clean my shop, but not really getting anything done.

Years ago when my parents were still living, I didn't yet own much, and therefore didn't have much stuff to put in my garage. So to solve my organizing dilemmna in those days I would totally empty my garage, starting early in the morning by setting everything outdoors. Then I would sweep and clean and hang shelves and cabinets, and carefully return everything one piece at a time. It was a wonderfully satisfying feeling, and my shop would look absolutely beautiful when I was done. (I would STILL rather do it this way, but I have WAY too much stuff for that tactic now.)

A couple of years ago I replaced all the drywall in my garage, running new electrical circuits, etc. To clear out the junk to make room for this, I brought home my 28 foot enclosed trailer from work, and crammed it full to the roof with stuff, leaving non-fragile items out in the weather. Then I bought all new matching Craftsman cabinets and tool boxes, put in a new work bench, installed wall hook systems, painted the walls nicely, and began to slowly return things to the shop---carefully sorting and organizing everything. It took me much longer than I thought, and I worked on it with every free moment I had for well over a month. I took all my coffee cans and boxes of old bolts, screws, and hardware and painstakingly sorted them into divider trays, just like you would see at a hardware store. I threw away every coffee can or similar container that I owned. Now, for example, if I need a countersunk star-type lock washer, I know right where to find them. Yet junk still continues to accumulate. And it's not all mine. I have grandkids now, and so riding toys, balls and bats, etc, are growing steadily. I love those kids more than my shop, so I grin and bear it.

But the overhaul of my walls, and getting rid of all my old mismatched cabinets and tool boxes, and sorting out/discarding all old coffee cans of hardware, etc, made a big change in my shop life. Now it is MUCH easier for me to find things when I need them, and much easier to clean up the shop when necessary. However, the most important thing I ever did was GET RID OF "USEFUL" ITEMS that I won't really use. I have come to recognize my limits, and I cannot organize that much stuff. So I have thrown away, given away, and sold literally tons of stuff. As the pile gets smaller, it gets easier to manage. And I reassure myself about getting rid of stuff by remembering that the only way I'll have the money and the space to buy more treasures at sales next year, is if I have gotten rid of LOTS of stuff this year!

 

[Crzydmnd72]

Bill, and Lump, one important thing I've struggled with regarding old family items. We can't keep it all. And just because we get rid of something doesn't mean we get rid of the memory. Of course, that doesn't mean pitch everything, but some things are more special than others.

Geeze, why can't we all just hoard cash? Its useful and hard to replace, I've asked myself that many many times lol

 

[Lump]

Bill, and Lump, one important thing I've struggled with regarding old family items. We can't keep it all. And just because we get rid of something doesn't mean we get rid of the memory. Of course, that doesn't mean pitch everything, but some things are more special than others.

Geeze, why can't we all just hoard cash? Its useful and hard to replace, I've asked myself that many many times lol

Hoard cash?!?!?!??
EXCELLENT idea, Crazymind!

 

[bczygan]

It's funny....I don't seem to have any problem avoiding hoarding of cash???!!!

 

[2fat2fly]

One of my challenges is that I lost multiple generations of my family in a tragic car accident, and have trouble getting rid of things that belonged to my dad, or one of my grandfathers, or one of my great-grandfathers. That can be tough!

My grandfather and dad both had an awesome tool collection and shops/garges they worked in. Both of them are gone now and have been for over 20 years. The only thing I have from either of them is the wooden toolbox my grandfather built around the time my dad was born. My dad passed away when I was 9 years old and my grandfather maintained both workshops until he died.It wasn't my choice to have only one thing from their shops. When my grandfather passed away I was in the Navy on active duty. My brothers cleaned out his work shop before I ever even new he was gone. As it turns out I'm glad I have that one thing from them. It means more to me than all the store bought tools they had.

 

[98TJ]

Progress.
Still working on the last corner of the Master Bedroom but closer to finished. See Photos.
You guys and girls are sure keeping me on my toes!
Julie says "Wow!", looks like a regular room!

Outstanding!

Seems Julie likes it too. I remember earlier in this thread where you said she was wanting to buy a 2nd house "to fill".

It good to see that room, Bill.

Focused effort is what it takes.

 

[RPW]

Any more progress?

 

[jclaudii]

Wow...I have managed to read almost all of these pages! This is by far one of the more interesting reads on the WHOLE internet, from projects going on over at Jeepforum or other offroad websites to just me researching via google "living hedge fence" and reading all the info there. This story, that is still ongoing, is interesting enough and hits close to home for me that I had to make it my first post here on GJ!

I have seen the results of house neglect and hording ( I even do it some and I HAVE to keep it in check). I'm not going to go in depth on everything that has happened on your journey so far, but being able to see that bedroom is a HUGE feat! I challenge you to even look through the bookshelf you have and see if you can throw away or donate any of those books.

On the personal side, my dad just passed away a few months ago and our family is going to have to sort through all his collections someday. I mean it takes alot of stuff to fill a 40x60 shop so full you only have "walking paths" to and from stuff. I'm positive there are tools in there and parts to stuff I can't identify, but the problem is it is under piles of other stuff that has very little value. I even find myself saving parts to something or hoses for the "just in case" scenario and my wife is making me reduce our junk collection.

My mindset is changing I don't need so much junk to use for parts as I may never need that part or get around to fixing it. I have to start simplifying my storage characteristics so I don't end up my like dad, I loved him and thought it was fun at some of the stuff he brought home, but in hindsight I should have questioned it a bit more(like why did he buy 2 d6 dozers that only half worked and have sat where he moved them for a couple of years with "plans" to fix?).

I think you are helping people, even me, realize we have to "stay the course" and get rid of some stuff to keep from cluttering our lives. There is even a movement for minimalist type approaches to living, If I don't have a immediate need or a planned use for it, then it prolly needs to go elsewhere out of our lives.

I have a question for you and I don't remember seeing a answer to it yet. I recall reading you had a leak in your roof, did you get this fixed? This is a must, even if it is a temporary fix with tarps.

Also, what is keeping you from selling a few of your belongings like extra lathes or pop-up campers and buying a nice tilt bed trailer or something so you can use it as your "dumpster" and haul it off once a week yourself?

Keep up the good Work Bill!

 

[markviii]

May you and Julie have a joyous Christmas and a happy New Year. I decorated my house (inside only) for Christmas for the first time in a few years, hoping the Christmas spirit would come without snow. It did! (the snow can stay away until after New Year's) We're also going to be celebrating Christmas with a picture on our Restored 1930's Auto Shop thread as well as our 2-year anniversary of the thread (including our 1mil + hits).

You have lots to celebrate this year with the progress you've been making. That's the biggest gift that didn't require searching Craig's List or garage sales to fulfill. Here's to more of the same in the new year with the goal of hosting Thanksgiving next year!

Best Wishes,
Chris

 

[Kevin54]

Bill,
I haven't forgot you, Julie, or this thread. I get on here a little bit, then rest, then back on, but I want to say that you have done a great job. Take it easy over Christmas. Enjoy the Holiday and visit family and friends. You'll have a whole week before you make that New Years Resolution. LOL!!!

Have a Merry Christmas,
Kevin

 

[bczygan]

Chris and Kevin and everyone who has posted in, or read this thread........
A very happy holiday season to you all. Your support and pushing have helped me have a much more pleasant holiday season and hopeful new years than I would ever have hoped for.
My resolution is that the revolution in thinking that has started for Julie and I, will continue and deepen. I also wish that you all find meaning and happiness in your lives. Sometimes that only comes from difficult change, as in my case. Thank you!

 

[Ltldemonz]

You are trekking a mighty hard road, harder still because you are trying to tough it out without outside help. You said Julie is now helping out but have you truly discussed what the plan and ultimate goals are? Alot of people aren't happy with how fast you are moving, tough luck, its your home, your life. Remember it will only take one neighbor to get tired of rats to call in an exterminator or complain about the smell or trash and this will very quickly and very publicly leave your control. That is would be your worst fear come to life if I am understanding you and your situation. You have acknowledged you are a hoarder...congrats but what of your wife has she accepted she is part of your households problems? Also what about your creditcard addiction (20K+) your spending habits and hoarding are probably linked to common roots, Figure out what this is and you will be halfway home. A couple of items I'll suggest to help out the cleaning process 1) Only log in once a day at most, do this at the end of the day as you unwind and relax, you are wasting much needed cleaning time being online throughout the day. 2) Take current pictures of COMPLETED rooms plus the next one on the list (i.e. you should by my count have 3 completed rooms. the stairs, the m. bedroom and the room Julie is using for work clothes) and add the before for the kitchen since that is next. Using current pictures will help you keep them clean(no back sliding since you have to provide pics). 3) you are using CL but I don't see mention of freecycle(only use it to get rid of stuff) The stuff on there moves pretty fast so I am willing to bet your usable stuff that you don't want trashed will find homes quickly on there.

 

[Mczygan]

Keep up the great work brother!!! I'm behind you 110%...

 

[markviii]

Very cool! Welcome to the GJ family - you're already in Bill's family, so the more the merrier to help along this life-changing project.

Chris

 

[BigWil]

Wow, it looks like Bill will be accountable to more than just Julie and us.

Bill, I hope your Christmas was better than mine, and I truly hope you can keep it well enough together to enjoy the next Christmas in a clean, mold free house with running water and heat.

 

[Strouty]

Bill,

I have posted before, but have been away form the forum for a while. I have caught up to the current timeframe and you are being ******* ridiculous by not getting a dumpster, you keep saying you are serious, well I don't believe you anymore. You may be throwing away 4 to 6 bins a week, but that is what a normal family disposes of. I consider myself a clutterer borderline hoarder and I have a dumpster just to keep my space clear. I think you need to stop beating around the bush and get with the program, if someone complained to the right city department, your house would be condemned and you and Julie would be out living in one of your campers or worse. Sometimes people need a wakeup call, you are well past that. There is no excuse to live in a house without plumbing or heat. If you can't afford to fix this situation, then you need to reassess everything. You and Julie are using each other as an excuse to not move forward. I feel like you have made minimal progress, you have learned to clean up small spaces and take photos, but you need a month long toss fest (with a real 40 yard dumpster). After that you need to save every penny and pay someone to safely clean the basement and get your plumbing and heating working. As I said before, if you can't afford to do these things, then just walk away. This is like having a credit card with 30% interest and you are only paying the minimum due, you will never finish at the rate you are moving. I am trying to give the harsh truth to you, I have seen a few post like this, then others have chimed in with great job!, ********, you are only trying to make yourself feel better. Well I don't believe you really want to get this done or if you are serious Julie isn't and that is another problem for another forum. You need more help than this forum can offer, I wish the best, but you are living in third world conditions and you really don't care, I find this disgusting just so my opinion is clear. I could be your "friend" and tell you good job and hold your hand, but you need a true friend to kick you in the *** and tell you the way things really are. I think you have made a good first step, but I think you need clinical help, most areas of little or no cost therapy session to people in your position. At this point you or Julie could end up sick or dead from the cold, mold, or something we don't know about. Get the real help you need and stop dicking around with those ******* small trash bins!

 

[bczygan]

Keep up the great work brother!!! I'm behind you 110%...

OMG!

Another first time poster .............and I have a sneaky suspicion I know the guy!

 

[Bronson]

I hope You had a Merry Christmas, Bill!

 

[rlwhitetr3b]

I keep reading the posts of others that say “you are not moving fast enough” or “you should have accepted help”. While both of these statements might be true, the house is a symptom of a bigger problem. If you moved Bill and Julie out of the house and removed all the stuff, it would not last long. I think Bill and Julie’s cleaning is a symptom of them helping themselves. I do not mean to be an enabler. If they find them slipping, they really need to see if they can find some help with their affliction and maybe the house. Right now it seems that the snowball is moving in the right direction and hopefully picking up speed.

 

[Strouty]

To use the snowball analogy, Bill is pushing a snow ball uphill in 34 degree weather while Julie is hoping it gets warmer.

 

[Kevin54]

Bill....how'd things go over Christmas? Have a good one?

 

[2fat2fly]

Bill, What you do with your life is your business. I would like you to read the story in the attached link and think about it,though.

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2011/12/28/columbus-fire-that-killed-three-ruled-accidental.html

 

[Kev442]

I just read this thread. By page 12 I was only reading Bill's posts to see where this would go.
A fresh eyes synopsis:

1) Without a doubt Bill is a classic hoarder. (Duh)

2) Just when the garage cleanup was getting to 30 years of old paint cans and shelves falling over due to rust, he walked away. Astonishing as clearing shelves of useless paint was going to be so easy to do.

3) Bill has yet to sell anything. A Nissan was supposed to leave, never a word about it gone. Same with three campers and 2 trailers. Bill buys low and then asks very high to assure nothing leaves. "Hey, I tried, but nothing sells in Detroit." Wrong.

4) People are patting him on the back for accomplishing things, but he has not admitted that all he has done with most of it is fill his vans and probably the garage back up. It is just going in circles. I believe the back yard is filled with totes of clothes yet also.

5) Clothes can be washed in cold water these days. The very first thing to do would have been to hook up a washer to the borrowed hose and drain into the kitchen sink. Instead all the clothes are packed into the vans for "a future trip to the laundry mat"

6) He has not posted about either Julie or himself hitting the resale/CL/ garage sales for a long time. Does anyone here think this has stopped cold turkey?

7) It is very tough to read about CC debt making the minimum payments and tax payment trouble when there are thousands upon thousands of dollars of things in his house that could be sold and never miss. Are you using that comb binder and heavy duty stapler much Bill?

OK, I am done being a total hard case here.
I can be a butthead because I have just about completed cleaning a basement in a building my parents own of over 7000lbs of stuff "they might need someday". They are 78 and finally admitted it was junk. Thankfully my Dad's last comment was snarled "I don't care if it is bare walls the next time I go there!" I am taking him at his word.
One of the fun things has been tossing 30 years of dried out paint cans, over 30 of them.
On the nice side, I got over $150 of scrap metal value. I never once read where Bill hauled any scrap metal to the recyclers. Just one broken fridge to the curb.

Bill, I wish you the best in 2012, I'll leave you with the best line I have ever read on the GJ:

You spend the first 50 years of your life accumulating stuff, and the rest of your life trying to get rid of it.

I am not quite 50 yet, but I am revving up for the long ride to bottom of this bell curve!

 

[bczygan]

Kev442,
I did NOT like reading your post. Because it is true. Hard to face. But I must. Means I need to find faster ways to really accomplish real progress.

 

[Kev442]

I am VERY glad you care enough about what we think here yet to reply.

Godspeed in 2012.

 

[betterbillt]

It's the time for new goals and changes. Happy New Years.

 

[bczygan]

I am VERY glad you care enough about what we think here yet to reply.

Godspeed in 2012.

And I am VERY glad you still care enough to take the time, and make the effort to show me the plain truth that I sorely need. Happy New Years to you all!